The funny part is for the majority of the mmo players tab target > action mmo. And you cannot disagree with that because far far more people are playing the tab target games then the new action mmos. Honestly the action mmos seem to be doing fairly poorly atm.
[mod edit]
Speaking of poor logic...
Who said anything about WoW... other than you?
He's referring to the number of people preferring Tab targeting over Action-based across all MMOs... not just WoW.
Even with its B2P revenue model and Action-based combat, GW2 failed to make much of a dent on the Tab-target MMO market. And GW2 is the game that was supposed to take the genre by storm and change the way people played MMOs forever more (according to its PR and fans anyway) - largely because of its action-based combat. Yet that didn't happen.
People either tried it out, found it wasn't "all that" and went back to their Tab-target MMOs... or simply weren't drawn to it in the first place.
The funny part is for the majority of the mmo players tab target > action mmo. And you cannot disagree with that because far far more people are playing the tab target games then the new action mmos. Honestly the action mmos seem to be doing fairly poorly atm.
[mod edit]
Well, since combat plays a large role in WoW and just about every MMO out there, it would be logical to assume people would not play the game if they hated tab targeting / auto attack when there are several alternatives out there. Perhaps the problem we're seeing right now is that some gamers are too focused on combat and that is why we've seen such a rush of action games, who as a group, are not nearly as popular as the current group of tab targeted MMOs.
Some backstory - I was an EQ player when FFXI came out - I was interested, but couldn't get any of my buddies to try it with me, so I kept on playing EQ with them. I don't regret staying with EQ, but I do regret not trying FFXI from the beginning. I finally tried out FFXI several years later (Spring 2010) - the game was good, but so far advanced I literally felt like I had just jumped into the ocean feet first and didn't know which direction the shore was. The community was great, I liked the gameplay, but as soon as you got past the popular level sync areas (Dunes) - there was more or less a black hole where the only choice was to continue to level sync in newbie content for groups until you got high enough level to run around and do the "endgame" content. I felt I missed the boat for FFXI, and that part I do regret.
That being said, I didn't want to miss it with FFXIV either. I love the class system in FFXI, and FFXIV looked to be improving on that, and expanding it greatly. I was very excited, and pre-ordered very early on.
I wasn't able to get into any of the closed betas, but did run around a bit in Open Beta - and was on from release and for about 4 months after release. At first I was in a kind of denial - it has to get better, this is just the typical post-launch jitters, new content is just around the corner. I had nearly every class leveled to around L20 - I was a very horizontal player. And maybe it did get better in later levels, or after Yoshi really started to juggle things, but at that stage I realized I was more or less deluding myself: this wasn't a Final Fantasy game, it was a fairly poor game that happened to be named Final Fantasy, and it wasn't terribly fun. I gave it a good chance, and then moved on. I hear Yoshi really started to turn the ship around, but I wasn't willing to come back and see after they had started subscriptions back up, not at least without some sort of trial since I had been burned so badly the first go around.
I bought into the hype. I tried to convince myself early on that the game was great, but it just wasn't fun for me. I really wanted an updated version of FFXI - and I think a lot of people were expecting that, but Tanaka was trying to present something different - I credit him for that much, but it didn't work.
So here comes ARR Beta 3. Being an original purchaser, I got my beta code as soon as Beta 3 started, and I updated my client - seeing this as the "free trial" that I didn't get when Yoshi started to really shake things up.
So far, in the Beta, I've got 3 battle classes through to 15, and one class nearly to 20. I've run through the 3 introductory dungeons, and not run the story line much past that (partially because progress may get wiped, and I don't want to burn myself out on it).
The game is totally different. The story ties into 1.0, but past that, I can't even recognize the game from it's 1.0 roots (which is a good thing). I can see a lot of elements from FFXI, but I wouldn't go so far to say as it's just FFXI wrapped up with HD graphics; ARR is it's own game, and will stand on it's own merits. It will have the albatross of 1.0 to carry, and that legacy it can never escape, but it does a very good job of standing on it's own two feet and pushing forward in it's own direction.
I don't want to say that it's "fixed" or that it's a "WoW-killer" or anything like that. I found the Beta to be fun - not perfect by any means, but better than 1.0 at any rate. I plan on subscribing up front to see how it goes. This time I go in with a healthy skepticism. I ~want~ to like this game, and I realize that, so I need to temper by excitement and not go in and realize I only liked it because I wanted to (which is exactly what happened with 1.0), and not because I actually do like it.
Originally posted by Vorthanion I'm tired of narrow path driven MMORPGs. I want an open, exploration driven MMO and it looks like I'll have to wait for either Wildstar or EverQuest Next to get it, because it doesn't even remotely exist in FFXIV.
Nope its as linear as a game can get.
Wildstar has giant arrows showing you which way to go for every quest and mission. And big red circles and cones on the ground for every single kind of attack not just AoEs
I have certainly spent quite a lot of time beta testing Final Fantasy: ARR and although I have been impressed by quite a few features, it hasn't blown me away.
I will say that I was surprisingly impressed by the combat and how alive it feels. I will be seriously put off by most linear themepark type MMO's if the animations and combat are lacking, it is the bread and butter of a tab-targeting system.
Overall good MMO, especially in its beta stages, but not amazing. I will be pleased to play it when released though.
Originally posted by Vorthanion I'm tired of narrow path driven MMORPGs. I want an open, exploration driven MMO and it looks like I'll have to wait for either Wildstar or EverQuest Next to get it, because it doesn't even remotely exist in FFXIV.
Nope its as linear as a game can get.
Wildstar has giant arrows showing you which way to go for every quest and mission. And big red circles and cones on the ground for every single kind of attack not just AoEs
I don't play MMOs for the combat, but rather for the exploration and while Wildstar has its issues, it does offer actual exploration as a path of progression and it does not point you in a direction with arrows from what I've seen. To be honest, I don't see the issue with asking the quest giver for directions. Maybe, for you guys, it's a straight male thing, just like in real life. After all, if he wants me to go out and kill a bunch of pests, it would be logical for the mission giver to tell you where they are. I don't hire someone to help me with a problem and not give them my address. It would be fitting to do that with an actual mystery quest, where information is limited, but even then, you have clues to work with.
As far as the red circle thing is concerned, most people on this board already know how I feel about action style combat and the inherent mechanics that go with it. I can overlook it though if the rest of the game gets just as much focus and attention by the developer.
Comments
Speaking of poor logic...
Who said anything about WoW... other than you?
He's referring to the number of people preferring Tab targeting over Action-based across all MMOs... not just WoW.
Even with its B2P revenue model and Action-based combat, GW2 failed to make much of a dent on the Tab-target MMO market. And GW2 is the game that was supposed to take the genre by storm and change the way people played MMOs forever more (according to its PR and fans anyway) - largely because of its action-based combat. Yet that didn't happen.
People either tried it out, found it wasn't "all that" and went back to their Tab-target MMOs... or simply weren't drawn to it in the first place.
Well, since combat plays a large role in WoW and just about every MMO out there, it would be logical to assume people would not play the game if they hated tab targeting / auto attack when there are several alternatives out there. Perhaps the problem we're seeing right now is that some gamers are too focused on combat and that is why we've seen such a rush of action games, who as a group, are not nearly as popular as the current group of tab targeted MMOs.
I have given this a lot of thought:
Some backstory -
I was an EQ player when FFXI came out - I was interested, but couldn't get any of my buddies to try it with me, so I kept on playing EQ with them. I don't regret staying with EQ, but I do regret not trying FFXI from the beginning. I finally tried out FFXI several years later (Spring 2010) - the game was good, but so far advanced I literally felt like I had just jumped into the ocean feet first and didn't know which direction the shore was. The community was great, I liked the gameplay, but as soon as you got past the popular level sync areas (Dunes) - there was more or less a black hole where the only choice was to continue to level sync in newbie content for groups until you got high enough level to run around and do the "endgame" content. I felt I missed the boat for FFXI, and that part I do regret.
That being said, I didn't want to miss it with FFXIV either. I love the class system in FFXI, and FFXIV looked to be improving on that, and expanding it greatly. I was very excited, and pre-ordered very early on.
I wasn't able to get into any of the closed betas, but did run around a bit in Open Beta - and was on from release and for about 4 months after release. At first I was in a kind of denial - it has to get better, this is just the typical post-launch jitters, new content is just around the corner. I had nearly every class leveled to around L20 - I was a very horizontal player. And maybe it did get better in later levels, or after Yoshi really started to juggle things, but at that stage I realized I was more or less deluding myself: this wasn't a Final Fantasy game, it was a fairly poor game that happened to be named Final Fantasy, and it wasn't terribly fun. I gave it a good chance, and then moved on. I hear Yoshi really started to turn the ship around, but I wasn't willing to come back and see after they had started subscriptions back up, not at least without some sort of trial since I had been burned so badly the first go around.
I bought into the hype. I tried to convince myself early on that the game was great, but it just wasn't fun for me. I really wanted an updated version of FFXI - and I think a lot of people were expecting that, but Tanaka was trying to present something different - I credit him for that much, but it didn't work.
So here comes ARR Beta 3. Being an original purchaser, I got my beta code as soon as Beta 3 started, and I updated my client - seeing this as the "free trial" that I didn't get when Yoshi started to really shake things up.
So far, in the Beta, I've got 3 battle classes through to 15, and one class nearly to 20. I've run through the 3 introductory dungeons, and not run the story line much past that (partially because progress may get wiped, and I don't want to burn myself out on it).
The game is totally different. The story ties into 1.0, but past that, I can't even recognize the game from it's 1.0 roots (which is a good thing). I can see a lot of elements from FFXI, but I wouldn't go so far to say as it's just FFXI wrapped up with HD graphics; ARR is it's own game, and will stand on it's own merits. It will have the albatross of 1.0 to carry, and that legacy it can never escape, but it does a very good job of standing on it's own two feet and pushing forward in it's own direction.
I don't want to say that it's "fixed" or that it's a "WoW-killer" or anything like that. I found the Beta to be fun - not perfect by any means, but better than 1.0 at any rate. I plan on subscribing up front to see how it goes. This time I go in with a healthy skepticism. I ~want~ to like this game, and I realize that, so I need to temper by excitement and not go in and realize I only liked it because I wanted to (which is exactly what happened with 1.0), and not because I actually do like it.
Wildstar has giant arrows showing you which way to go for every quest and mission. And big red circles and cones on the ground for every single kind of attack not just AoEs
I have certainly spent quite a lot of time beta testing Final Fantasy: ARR and although I have been impressed by quite a few features, it hasn't blown me away.
I will say that I was surprisingly impressed by the combat and how alive it feels. I will be seriously put off by most linear themepark type MMO's if the animations and combat are lacking, it is the bread and butter of a tab-targeting system.
Overall good MMO, especially in its beta stages, but not amazing. I will be pleased to play it when released though.
I don't play MMOs for the combat, but rather for the exploration and while Wildstar has its issues, it does offer actual exploration as a path of progression and it does not point you in a direction with arrows from what I've seen. To be honest, I don't see the issue with asking the quest giver for directions. Maybe, for you guys, it's a straight male thing, just like in real life. After all, if he wants me to go out and kill a bunch of pests, it would be logical for the mission giver to tell you where they are. I don't hire someone to help me with a problem and not give them my address. It would be fitting to do that with an actual mystery quest, where information is limited, but even then, you have clues to work with.
As far as the red circle thing is concerned, most people on this board already know how I feel about action style combat and the inherent mechanics that go with it. I can overlook it though if the rest of the game gets just as much focus and attention by the developer.