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Death Penalties - Poll

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Comments

  • fyerwallfyerwall Posts: 3,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Storm_Cloud
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    See, I am all for XP loss, but corpse runs tend to cause more issues than its worth. I was the player who would die and somehow their corpse would get stuck in a wall/floor/limbo and not be recoverable. I even had an instance where I managed to die slightly in mid air, corpse was hovering about 2 feet off the ground (gnome height) and would not let me loot it, drag it, etc. Had to wait 24 hours for a GM to fix it (they basically came to me in Qeynos and handed me my gear).

    Now if they made corpse runs that didn't take your gear but instead took a massive chunk of earned XP (which you could then get back upto 75% when you find your corpse) Then I would be all for that. Better to lose a few hours/days of XP to a bugged corpse than to lose gear.

    But if they could guarantee no bugged corpses, then I would be fine with it.

    So, you couldn't loot your corpse because of a bug. Of course bugs happen, in all games.

    Would you have been OK with it if the bug wasn't there, so that you could have looted your corpse?

    Changing a working system because of a bug isn't right. If the system was working, you wouldn't have had to wait. Shit happends, right?

     

    Maaaan, and I read everything you wrote, except for that last line, lol... :)

     

    Lol, slacker :P

    But yeah, losing a corpse to a bug was annoying, and GM support in EQ was often even worse. If they could make a system where you could retrieve a bugged corpse easier (maybe a once a week/month sort of 'oh shit' ability that would instantly summon your crap, I would be ok with it. Even if people who didn't want to run to their corpse ended up popping the skill I wouldn't mind (sort of like a 1 time per week/month get out of jail free card). Not like it could be abused when it a one time use/really long cooldown sort of ability.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


    image

  • PerjurePerjure Col, OHPosts: 199Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mos0811

    I had the  most fun in Shadowbane.  On death you lost all items in your backpack, while everything that was equipped you kept and took damage to those items.  This would allow well geared players to keep their gear, but lose any gold and items they had collected before being able to bank.  It also allowed gear to break, increasing the need for new gear which is good for crafters.

    One big difference in SB was that mobs rarely ever killed you, so when you did die it was from a player and your stuff was gone before you got back to your gravemarker.

    Totally agree here - I think it was a great system and would like to see it in EQ next.

  • Storm_CloudStorm_Cloud MalmoPosts: 369Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fyerwall
    Originally posted by Storm_Cloud
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    See, I am all for XP loss, but corpse runs tend to cause more issues than its worth. I was the player who would die and somehow their corpse would get stuck in a wall/floor/limbo and not be recoverable. I even had an instance where I managed to die slightly in mid air, corpse was hovering about 2 feet off the ground (gnome height) and would not let me loot it, drag it, etc. Had to wait 24 hours for a GM to fix it (they basically came to me in Qeynos and handed me my gear).

    Now if they made corpse runs that didn't take your gear but instead took a massive chunk of earned XP (which you could then get back upto 75% when you find your corpse) Then I would be all for that. Better to lose a few hours/days of XP to a bugged corpse than to lose gear.

    But if they could guarantee no bugged corpses, then I would be fine with it.

    So, you couldn't loot your corpse because of a bug. Of course bugs happen, in all games.

    Would you have been OK with it if the bug wasn't there, so that you could have looted your corpse?

    Changing a working system because of a bug isn't right. If the system was working, you wouldn't have had to wait. Shit happends, right?

     

    Maaaan, and I read everything you wrote, except for that last line, lol... :)

     

    Lol, slacker :P

    But yeah, losing a corpse to a bug was annoying, and GM support in EQ was often even worse. If they could make a system where you could retrieve a bugged corpse easier (maybe a once a week/month sort of 'oh shit' ability that would instantly summon your crap, I would be ok with it. Even if people who didn't want to run to their corpse ended up popping the skill I wouldn't mind (sort of like a 1 time per week/month get out of jail free card). Not like it could be abused when it a one time use/really long cooldown sort of ability.

    Absolutely! This is a great idea, at least in the beginning of the release. Later on, they can remove it if need be.

    Kinda like games use /stuck or /rope or whatever they may call it when a character become stuck in a rock, or fall down a cliff side, etc. Except, the timer on your idea, like you said, gotta be a long one or it will be easily abused. :)

    Lets hope SOE ppl reads. :)

     

  • ArakaziArakazi OxfordPosts: 889Member
    Originally posted by fyerwall
    Originally posted by giga1000

    Corpse+ exp run. Why because it makes it so not just any A-hole can get to max lvl and be safe + it also makes people really learn their class. it helps mitigate people from being at end game or what ever and having not clue what to do or how to play your roles. 

    All themepark games as it is can just keep dying and never learn a damn thing because if they persist they will get to max lvl and still have no idea how to play their toons.

    With corpse run + exp loss every one has to learn even the best gamers have to because there is real fear of death and set back. If someone who doesn't learn how to play their class they will never be at end game because they just keep dying.

    Also those people who keep dying and who never learn are a good thing to the population of a game being your game will have levels spread out  very well because of this so you have a well populated game for people to group at all levels not just end game.

    Look at every themepark game out there or pretty much close to all games now. People are either at max level or and early levels and nothing in between so you have a server that feels dead. By having corpse run + exp loss you will have a healthier game because learning curves will matter once again. 

    No more I can just keep throwing myself off a cliff until I real end levels and not learn a damn thing. You throw yourself off a cliff and you are set back. Do it again you are set back, and again. 

    people complain about corpse run + exp loss why? It is one of the single best things to keep a game healthy and spread out and one more thing to do in game instead of sitting in a city doing nothing but trolling channels or sitting in a guildhall again trolling channels. Want to troll FINE but you keep pissing off your community and when you need help for a corpse run GL or a rez with possible exp back GL. be a dick and thats what you will gte is Dick!

    See, I am all for XP loss, but corpse runs tend to cause more issues than its worth. I was the player who would die and somehow their corpse would get stuck in a wall/floor/limbo and not be recoverable. I even had an instance where I managed to die slightly in mid air, corpse was hovering about 2 feet off the ground (gnome height) and would not let me loot it, drag it, etc. Had to wait 24 hours for a GM to fix it (they basically came to me in Qeynos and handed me my gear).

    Now if they made corpse runs that didn't take your gear but instead took a massive chunk of earned XP (which you could then get back upto 75% when you find your corpse) Then I would be all for that. Better to lose a few hours/days of XP to a bugged corpse than to lose gear.

    But if they could guarantee no bugged corpses, then I would be fine with it.

    I think I remember seeing corpses like that. I also remember losing a corpse (there were no maps) I couldn't remember where I died as I was running halfway across the zone with a mega train behind me, it was all going well until I got Dced. I couldn't recover my corpse, and GM  took their time. My guild had to buy me new gear and everything. Anyways... A couple of days later I came across my corpse again... halfway up a tree, with the head somehow embeded withing the trunk.

  • fyerwallfyerwall Posts: 3,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Storm_Cloud
    Originally posted by fyerwall
    Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

    Maaaan, and I read everything you wrote, except for that last line, lol... :)

     

    Lol, slacker :P

    But yeah, losing a corpse to a bug was annoying, and GM support in EQ was often even worse. If they could make a system where you could retrieve a bugged corpse easier (maybe a once a week/month sort of 'oh shit' ability that would instantly summon your crap, I would be ok with it. Even if people who didn't want to run to their corpse ended up popping the skill I wouldn't mind (sort of like a 1 time per week/month get out of jail free card). Not like it could be abused when it a one time use/really long cooldown sort of ability.

    Absolutely! This is a great idea, at least in the beginning of the release. Later on, they can remove it if need be.

    Kinda like games use /stuck or /rope or whatever they may call it when a character become stuck in a rock, or fall down a cliff side, etc. Except, the timer on your idea, like you said, gotta be a long one or it will be easily abused. :)

    Lets hope SOE ppl reads. :)

     

    Lol, like Vanguards need of a /rope command because /stuck got you more stuck :P

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


    image

  • Storm_CloudStorm_Cloud MalmoPosts: 369Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fyerwall
    Originally posted by Storm_Cloud
    Originally posted by fyerwall
    Originally posted by Storm_Cloud

    Maaaan, and I read everything you wrote, except for that last line, lol... :)

     

    Lol, slacker :P

    But yeah, losing a corpse to a bug was annoying, and GM support in EQ was often even worse. If they could make a system where you could retrieve a bugged corpse easier (maybe a once a week/month sort of 'oh shit' ability that would instantly summon your crap, I would be ok with it. Even if people who didn't want to run to their corpse ended up popping the skill I wouldn't mind (sort of like a 1 time per week/month get out of jail free card). Not like it could be abused when it a one time use/really long cooldown sort of ability.

    Absolutely! This is a great idea, at least in the beginning of the release. Later on, they can remove it if need be.

    Kinda like games use /stuck or /rope or whatever they may call it when a character become stuck in a rock, or fall down a cliff side, etc. Except, the timer on your idea, like you said, gotta be a long one or it will be easily abused. :)

    Lets hope SOE ppl reads. :)

     

    Lol, like Vanguards need of a /rope command because /stuck got you more stuck :P

    That's where I stole it from, lol. :)

     

  • fyerwallfyerwall Posts: 3,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arakazi
    Originally posted by fyerwall
    Originally posted by giga1000

    Corpse+ exp run. Why because it makes it so not just any A-hole can get to max lvl and be safe + it also makes people really learn their class. it helps mitigate people from being at end game or what ever and having not clue what to do or how to play your roles. 

    All themepark games as it is can just keep dying and never learn a damn thing because if they persist they will get to max lvl and still have no idea how to play their toons.

    With corpse run + exp loss every one has to learn even the best gamers have to because there is real fear of death and set back. If someone who doesn't learn how to play their class they will never be at end game because they just keep dying.

    Also those people who keep dying and who never learn are a good thing to the population of a game being your game will have levels spread out  very well because of this so you have a well populated game for people to group at all levels not just end game.

    Look at every themepark game out there or pretty much close to all games now. People are either at max level or and early levels and nothing in between so you have a server that feels dead. By having corpse run + exp loss you will have a healthier game because learning curves will matter once again. 

    No more I can just keep throwing myself off a cliff until I real end levels and not learn a damn thing. You throw yourself off a cliff and you are set back. Do it again you are set back, and again. 

    people complain about corpse run + exp loss why? It is one of the single best things to keep a game healthy and spread out and one more thing to do in game instead of sitting in a city doing nothing but trolling channels or sitting in a guildhall again trolling channels. Want to troll FINE but you keep pissing off your community and when you need help for a corpse run GL or a rez with possible exp back GL. be a dick and thats what you will gte is Dick!

    See, I am all for XP loss, but corpse runs tend to cause more issues than its worth. I was the player who would die and somehow their corpse would get stuck in a wall/floor/limbo and not be recoverable. I even had an instance where I managed to die slightly in mid air, corpse was hovering about 2 feet off the ground (gnome height) and would not let me loot it, drag it, etc. Had to wait 24 hours for a GM to fix it (they basically came to me in Qeynos and handed me my gear).

    Now if they made corpse runs that didn't take your gear but instead took a massive chunk of earned XP (which you could then get back upto 75% when you find your corpse) Then I would be all for that. Better to lose a few hours/days of XP to a bugged corpse than to lose gear.

    But if they could guarantee no bugged corpses, then I would be fine with it.

    I think I remember seeing corpses like that. I also remember losing a corpse (there were no maps) I couldn't remember where I died as I was running halfway across the zone with a mega train behind me, it was all going well until I got Dced. I couldn't recover my corpse, and GM  took their time. My guild had to buy me new gear and everything. Anyways... A couple of days later I came across my corpse again... halfway up a tree, with the head somehow embeded withing the trunk.

    Lol!

    we had a similar issue with a guildie. He was running through one of the zones (think it was in Kunark) and came across a named mob that gibbed him on the spot. He could not remember where he died and eventually gave up looking. A few days later someone in guild was looking for this mob for some quest. He spoke up and said "I have seen this guy and have a general idea where." So we went out looking for this spot. spent about an hour looking when someone asked how he knew the guy was out here. He stated "I ran into him and he killed me in 2 hits."

    Within 5 minutes our druid stopped under a tree and said "He must spawn here.

    Everyone was like "What makes you think that?"

    What we saw next in chat was *points up*

    Sure enough, in the tree 'Corpse of (insert rogues name here)'

     

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


    image

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    If Items don't decay and eventually break over time then crafting will be meaningless.
  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member

    I can't answer the poll because it only contains methods already tried.  And I'm looking for an mmo with something new. I'm tired of copy paste features from other games.

    My answer is to stop focusing on 'death penalties' as the only incentive to NOT die. Start focusing on incentives to LIVE. A death penalty can be a part of incentive to live, but not the only one.

    How about - 

    XP bonuses for living through a dungeon?

    Gear upgrades due to success

    Kill this boss without death, get a temp power for the next boss

    Skill and power curves - the more you live the more powerful you get. Live and the dungeon gets easier. Die and it is a slow difficult slog.

    If you wipe, the next boss is more difficult.

    If you wipe you get locked out for a certain time.

    A combination of the above

    A combination of the above with a death penalty 

    __________________________

    That's just brainstorming off the top of my head.

    The problem imo, is devs have only thought inside the 'death penalty' box to create incentive to live. I recommend future games try something we haven't seen.

     

     

  • GrailerGrailer HamiltonPosts: 876Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zorgo

    I can't answer the poll because it only contains methods already tried.  And I'm looking for an mmo with something new. I'm tired of copy paste features from other games.

    My answer is to stop focusing on 'death penalties' as the only incentive to NOT die. Start focusing on incentives to LIVE. A death penalty can be a part of incentive to live, but not the only one.

    How about - 

    XP bonuses for living through a dungeon?

    Gear upgrades due to success

    Kill this boss without death, get a temp power for the next boss

    Skill and power curves - the more you live the more powerful you get. Live and the dungeon gets easier. Die and it is a slow difficult slog.

    If you wipe, the next boss is more difficult.

    If you wipe you get locked out for a certain time.

    A combination of the above

    A combination of the above with a death penalty 

    __________________________

    That's just brainstorming off the top of my head.

    The problem imo, is devs have only thought inside the 'death penalty' box to create incentive to live. I recommend future games try something we haven't seen.

     

     

    It just occurred to me EQN might not even have levels , it might be more based on skills .

    But I like some of your ideas

  • tank017tank017 Glendale, CAPosts: 2,192Member

    Corpse runs + exp loss..

     

    though I wouldnt mind a mix of Daoc's and Vanguard's methods.Where you leave a tombstone with your gear and once you pray at it,it gives your gear and some exp back.

  • luclinraiderluclinraider Oakdale, CAPosts: 42Member
    Considering there are 6 options and 1 has 50% of the votes, I'd say that is pretty much a landslide majority lol :P
  • DeathByCactusDeathByCactus Houston, TXPosts: 36Member
    XP loss should be a requirement. CR is a plus after that.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,750Member Uncommon
    While it is a little harsh, I like the corpse run and exp loss...The reason why is that it gives a greater risk and reward to the game....I remember in classic EQ my group would go to places that were dangerous but often we'd get items that were not easy to come by and worth quite a bit on the bazaar....
  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BrucyBonus
    Originally posted by fyerwall
    Originally posted by Storm_Cloud
    Originally posted by fyerwall

    AO's system.

    When you die you lose all XP gained unless you saved it via an insurance terminal.

    Just make it so you have to save your XP progress with a priest in EQN.

    Wait... What??!?!!

    So, if I have been camping  with a group at Orc 2 in East Commonlands for 3 hours, and xp has been flowing. Then I die because we had a bad pull.

    So you suggest I should have run to Freeport earlier, leaving my group hanging, waiting for me just so I can make my xp "safe"? 

    Really? lol...

    If this is not how it works, than please do explain... 

    That's how it worked. And we had 200 levels to deal with that. Eventually it was 215 levels. And honestly, people played smarter. Thing is you had insurance terminals set relatively close to major areas (small towns/outposts scattered through the world) where you could go. And these areas were always used because you had to purchase ammo and med/nano kits. So you would always see people running to/from these outposts.

    It made death sting, made people play smarter and people learned to pay attention to their health as well as those in their group.

    And for even more fun, there were 3 factions, anyone could group with anyone, but you could accidentally target and attack people from opposite factions even in your group :P

    I am not one for over-simplification, but making people jump through additional hoops for no discernible reason is bad game design.  Having to (effectively) manually save your progress in an mmo should not happen.  It is an unnecessary level of bureaucracy that will turn players away with good reason.   

     What you call bad game design is really it isn't what you desire.  Big difference...

  • keenberkeenber galwayPosts: 438Member

    exp loss if exp is hard to get if not then expand corpse and gear damage that cant be repaired just replaced when broken.

    We badly need EQN to have long leveling times and for us to be afraid again to die in game . It will make players better players not the usual unskilled ganker/run in i will be ok lets pull the whole zone childish bunch of players we have today.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Corpse runs and XP loss.  Although I'd prefer not to downlevel but I would like to see corpse runs mandatory.  None of this "you can rez at your corpse once every 30 mins" bullcrap.  I don't care if you've not died in 3 weeks, if you die, return to where your soul was bound...no if's, and's and or but's.  Unless you're rezzed by another player character.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by keenber

    exp loss if exp is hard to get if not then expand corpse and gear damage that cant be repaired just replaced when broken.

    We badly need EQN to have long leveling times and for us to be afraid again to die in game . It will make players better players not the usual unskilled ganker/run in i will be ok lets pull the whole zone childish bunch of players we have today.

     Amen brother, a frikken men

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • fyerwallfyerwall Posts: 3,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Corpse runs and XP loss.  Although I'd prefer not to downlevel but I would like to see corpse runs mandatory.  None of this rez here bullcrap.  I don't care if you've not died in 3 weeks, if you die, return to where your soul was bound...no if's, and's and or but's.  Unless you're rezzed by another player character.

    Oh thats another thing: Having to remember to bind :)

    Always fun to have the one guy in group who died and never knew he could bind somewhere other than his starting city.

    "You almost back?"

    "Waiting for the boat still"

    "??!!??"

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


    image

  • KyrumKyrum louisville, KYPosts: 2Member
    Some of my best times in EQ involved corpse runs.

    image
  • thedood123thedood123 Huntington, WVPosts: 149Member

    I think the majority of the people here are going to be pretty disappointed soon, because:

    When you are making a game nowadays you have to look at the majority of people. 

    The MAJORITY of people like having an easier time with a game, that's why so many games have evolved from corpse runs etc. into rezzing at a spirit healer. 

    Corpse runs, ok. I might see that happening in Everquest Next... but items disappearing? most likely not.

    The same goes for say fast travel, most people like and are USED to getting on a flight path or stable master taking them places while they go to the refrigerator, etc. 

     

    Just speculation of course, this game could be built for hardcore players in mind and screw the rest.

  • isslingissling San Francisco, CAPosts: 157Member Uncommon
    Bring respect back to the mobs:) (What would you like on your tombstone!) And they meant it haha. People will start to look at the cons on these mobs again if they know whats good for them:) 
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon
    EXP loss is a dumb idea. People tend to leave raids/teams to quick if you dont win right away. I think a money penalty is all thats needed. Would not be upset with a corpse run but again I dont think its needed. Loss of time and money is enough to make people think twice before zerg dying. Also when you die to someone elses bone head move or server lag it just does not feel right. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • KuanshuKuanshu Des Moines, IAPosts: 272Member

    Everquest death penalty would have many who didn't experience it fully crying foul...I kid you not when I say I literally quit playing for days or longer when I realized players couldn't group effectively enough early on in Everquest as I was dying repeatedly being the main puller as players weren't very good at managing aggro/cc and no one cared enough to resurrect as there was so much competition for gear in certain zones. Yes it was very harsh indeed!

    14 years later there is literally no excuse, no pity, no regard for anyone who isn't experienced/prepared enough to venture out carefully enough without dying to PvE

    Corpse deterioration timer (some exp regained with corpse aquisition) based upon level as well as experience loss in accordance to level as well in accordance to MOB level...of course dying to Raid MOBs wouldn't affect experience loss as it would suck to be you losing all your gear to the Raid MOBs, as well as your corpse being eaten.

    Equipped Item damage with possible breakage (if already damaged) and all items should be on nearby MOBs which looted your corpse, as well as your partys corpses; also, the MOBs which killed you and possibly your party should rank up (Imagine Raid MOBs killing multiple raids and the dynamic here, LOL)... would be halarious if the MOBs could actually equip some of the gear (humanoid MOBs)

    Much more immersive and imagine how community enhancing this would be as you would have to pay players to help you retrieve some of your items from the MOBs who ganked you and your buddies or imagine how players would act like vultures waiting for players to die to venture in and kill the MOBs for lewtz...you come back with help and nada so you have to beg for help, hope you have reserves to re-equip and/or money to buy crafted/vendor items which helps the community/economy

  • VincerKadenVincerKaden Edison, NJPosts: 457Member

    I'd say XP penalties. It's a pretty powerful penalty in and of itself. Throwing a corpse run on top of that is problematic in my view. If there are no levels and free roaming in a sandbox, a player may find themselves in an area that they just cannot handle. They're overmatched by the environment and are flattened to death. Retrieving a corpse may prove very difficult and lead to many tries and fails. Trying to retrieve it and failing numerous times, all while losing XP is pretty nasty. I guess the way to offset that is to call in friends to help.

     

    Losing XP is penalty enough. On the flip side... the player learns his or her current limitations. That's an experience that can't be measured.

    image

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