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Will F2P ruin this game?

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Comments

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 6,655Member Rare

    It's going to be a game with "sandbox" features.  Add to that a Cash Shop. I find it very difficult to see how having real money infused into an economy that is supposed to be (I'm assuming here) player driven can balance out. It's going to be tough not to foster an indirectly pay to win environment. I feel The Repopulation will face the same issues.

     

    "SWG PLAYERS – OUR NEXT GAME IS DEDICATED TO YOU. Once we launch it… you can come home now.”
  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,658Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Ziegler

    customer service declines, over community declines, hacking increase, scamming increases...but all of that is acceptable since profits increase too.

    when EQ2 went ftp, none of this happened making the game worse

     

    I was a subscriber during EQ2's ftp transition

     

    Same I was a subscriber, and still am to EQ2. None of these things happened at all.

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLPosts: 20,885Member Rare
    Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Being a crappy game ruins the game, payment model doesn't make or break a game.

    The payment model is usually the reason it's a crappy game in this case. EQ1 and 2 were great but when they switched to f2p, if you weren't subbed it was awful. If EQN starts out that way, the majority of people will not pay the sub because they don't have to, they wont enjoy it, and they'll leave. What makes MMOs great is the MASSIVELY part. If everyone's gone it's not nearly as fun imo

    I currently play a game with one server and a maximum population at a given time of around 1000 people.

    Now, since I've played this game when it had more, say around 2000 I'd say that would be the more preferable amount, but we're all still having big fun with as few as 350 people on line during my normal playing times.

    Its a bit of an illusion to say you need mega millions of players to have fun, truth is if your server has about 2-3K players, its more than enough to have a very good MMORPG experience.

    And no, F2P hasn't ruined any of the former sub titles such as EQ1/2, if anything it saved them from an early grave.

     

    "Winning" at EVE Online since 2006! 

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • sirphobossirphobos Ames, IAPosts: 615Member Uncommon
    SOE has done a good job with Planetside 2 and FTP.  Obviously an RPG is different from an FPS but I don't think free players will be as restricted as they are in EQ1 and EQ2.
  • NadiaNadia Topsham, MainePosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     I find it very difficult to see how having real money infused into an economy that is supposed to be (I'm assuming here) player driven.

    i dont know what the player economy will bring

     

    SOE has a virtual cash item similar to EVE's PLEX called Krono

    I expect something similar will be offered in EQN

     

    both SOE's Krono and EVE's PLEX are ingame items bought w real cash, and part of the player economy - seems to be working for EVE

     

    http://www.evetimecode.com/what_is_plex.php

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/newsroom.cfm/loadNews/25848

    SOE president John Smedley has announced the 'Krono', a tradeable in-game item (similar to EVE's PLEX) which will grant players 30 days of premium membership time in whatever game the item is redeemed, during this year's SOELive keynote.

    The Krono will only initially be available in EverQuest II (beginning October 29, 2012), but SOE plans to expand this availability further to other SOE games going forward.

     

    October 29, 2012

    http://eq2wire.com/2012/10/29/krono-in-game-currency-going-live-today/

     

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 6,655Member Rare
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     I find it very difficult to see how having real money infused into an economy that is supposed to be (I'm assuming here) player driven.

    i dont know what the player economy will bring

     

    SOE has a virtual cash item similar to EVE's PLEX called Krono

    - I expect something similar will be offered in EQN

     

    http://www.evetimecode.com/what_is_plex.php

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/newsroom.cfm/loadNews/25848

    SOE president John Smedley has announced the 'Krono', a tradeable in-game item (similar to EVE's PLEX) which will grant players 30 days of premium membership time in whatever game the item is redeemed, during this year's SOELive keynote.

    The Krono will only initially be available in EverQuest II (beginning October 29, 2012), but SOE plans to expand this availability further to other SOE games going forward.

     

    October 29, 2012

    http://eq2wire.com/2012/10/29/krono-in-game-currency-going-live-today/

     

    PLEX isn't the perfect solution either. I don't believe EVE is the almighty sandbox game it's cracked up to be. People talk about the success that it is. Yeah, it's a successful niche game. I don't care about active subs. I only care about is how many unique active players it has. EVE's PLEX system encouages multiple accounts. And while most players have 2 maybe 3, How many active accounts do the top players maintain? How many accounts is someone like Mittens able to maintain through PLEX? There are 2 issues here.

    While I won't call it P2W. But PLEX certainly has allowed the current  people at the top to stay there with no chance of being toppled....EVER! And also, for me, a game where having multiple accounts gets you an advantage or is highly encouraged to increase your overall experience, is a deal breaker. I went through that with Anarchy Online. I won't be doing it again. EQN will be F2P so I am curious to see how a PLEX-like system is going to be implemented.

    "SWG PLAYERS – OUR NEXT GAME IS DEDICATED TO YOU. Once we launch it… you can come home now.”
  • NadiaNadia Topsham, MainePosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     EQN will be F2P so I am curious to see how a PLEX-like system is going to be implemented.

    i could be totally wrong

    but im expecting EQN to be a freemium game - with both ftp and sub options

  • fledurfledur Fort Lauderdale, FLPosts: 77Member Common
    I don't care if the game is F2P as long as I can play and forget about the cash shop. If for some reason the game keeps remembering me that it would be great to buy credits for this and for that, it really ruins the experience. GW2 imo did a good job on this aspect. Neverwinter on the other hand did not.
  • ice-vortexice-vortex Posts: 953Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     EQN will be F2P so I am curious to see how a PLEX-like system is going to be implemented.

    i could be totally wrong

    but im expecting EQN to be a freemium game - with both ftp and sub options

    Freemium doesn't even really exist in EQ1 and EQ2 anymore. So I doubt it will rear its ugly head again in EQN.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 8,250Member Rare
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     EQN will be F2P so I am curious to see how a PLEX-like system is going to be implemented.

    i could be totally wrong

    but im expecting EQN to be a freemium game - with both ftp and sub options

    Freemium doesn't even really exist in EQ1 and EQ2 anymore. So I doubt it will rear its ugly head again in EQN.

    You can subscribe to EQ2 and some things are locked squarely behind the sub, even if they're small.  How is that not Freemium?

    Dragon's Prophet is not freemium, but that might be more the way Runewaker setup their game than SoE.  I don't see why they wouldn't go freemium unless they go the Perfect World / Cryptic route of monetizaiton like in STO and Neverwinter.

    Centuries ago, in primitive times, before the dawn of civilization, there were things that would be inconceivable to us today; such things as poverty, disease, violence, senility, and love.
  • ice-vortexice-vortex Posts: 953Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     EQN will be F2P so I am curious to see how a PLEX-like system is going to be implemented.

    i could be totally wrong

    but im expecting EQN to be a freemium game - with both ftp and sub options

    Freemium doesn't even really exist in EQ1 and EQ2 anymore. So I doubt it will rear its ugly head again in EQN.

    You can subscribe to EQ2 and some things are locked squarely behind the sub, even if they're small.  How is that not Freemium?

    Dragon's Prophet is not freemium, but that might be more the way Runewaker setup their game than SoE.  I don't see why they wouldn't go freemium unless they go the Perfect World / Cryptic route of monetizaiton like in STO and Neverwinter.

    A subscription option does not equate to freemium. Freemium means a lot of the content and features are locked and you either have to subscribe or pay to unlock them.

  • KrimzinKrimzin Fort Worth, TXPosts: 588Member Uncommon

    I have always hated the idea of F2P... til...Rift. I played the game during release and then Quit. I came back for F2P but with a Sub.. and Im loving it. Subs have never bothered me because they are such a trivial amount of money. I like the fact that I can spend RL cash to buy non P2W items, like mounts and Wardrobe.

    If EQNext follows Trions lead on the F2P model, it will blow all competitors out of the water.

    Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.


    It's an Orange thing
  • CyclopsSlayerCyclopsSlayer Minneapolis, MNPosts: 532Member Uncommon

    F2P in and of itself will not make or break a game. It is the nature of the Cash Shop they use to support the F2P that does that.

     

    Bad Cash Shops

    Neverwinter Online with its Complete Heal, and AoE Rez items in the CS doesn't help as it allows $$ to replace players. Needing to buy stones to counteract the 1% item combine chances come endgame.

    Dragon Prophet - take the free rez back in the newbie zone, or pay XX Station Cash to Rez where you lay. Want to Port around? More SC.

    PWI/Diablo/Neverwinter - both allow direct conversion of Currency into in game money. What make the Eve model (maybe the EQ2 as well) a good model, is they also let you use in game Money to pay for your Subscriptions.

    Any Game with a Lockbox Lotto - Spend a buck to buy a key. Mostly garbage rewards and then that BIS item pops out of one. Really?

     

    Good Cash Shop

    Path of Exile - Skill effect skins, weapon and armor skins, vanity pets, the only in game affecting thing the CS allows is expanding your Stash (Bank) and coloring/naming the various tabs.

  • NadiaNadia Topsham, MainePosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ice-vortex

    A subscription option does not equate to freemium. Freemium means a lot of the content and features are locked and you either have to subscribe or pay to unlock them.

    regardless of the business model, I do expect SOE to use Krono or a similar PLEX system in EQN

    -- how SOE incorporates that into the player economy is unclear

  • MischiefMischief Salem, ORPosts: 81Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Ziegler

    customer service declines, over community declines, hacking increase, scamming increases...but all of that is acceptable since profits increase too.

    when EQ2 went ftp, none of this happened making the game worse

     

    I was a subscriber during EQ2's ftp transition

     

    I was subscribed at the time as well but when they did the transition it seemed more like they were trying to do an extended trial of the game rather than making their revenue from the F2P.  At least in the beginning it felt that way.  I did find it annoying however they kept dedicating their new art assets for armor and housing items to the cash shop instead of things we could earn in game as a subscriber, but that started even before the transition to F2P. 

  • helothelot denton, TXPosts: 89Member Uncommon

    I'm starting to save my money for this game.  I'm sure it will be a fun shopping experience.   Even better than the mall.   I'm thinking I will need around $375 to keep up with everyone for the 4 months or so I will play.    Gotta have those 80% exp pots bro.    Can't wait!  And Everquest 3 pets DLC is just around the corner.  Wooo!

    p.s.   The new justin bieder album just came out.    It's awesome!

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 8,250Member Rare
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     EQN will be F2P so I am curious to see how a PLEX-like system is going to be implemented.

    i could be totally wrong

    but im expecting EQN to be a freemium game - with both ftp and sub options

    Freemium doesn't even really exist in EQ1 and EQ2 anymore. So I doubt it will rear its ugly head again in EQN.

    You can subscribe to EQ2 and some things are locked squarely behind the sub, even if they're small.  How is that not Freemium?

    Dragon's Prophet is not freemium, but that might be more the way Runewaker setup their game than SoE.  I don't see why they wouldn't go freemium unless they go the Perfect World / Cryptic route of monetizaiton like in STO and Neverwinter.

    A subscription option does not equate to freemium. Freemium means a lot of the content and features are locked and you either have to subscribe or pay to unlock them.

    That isn't how I've thought of Freemium.  You're describing pretty much every game out there, even the least restrictive.  Even Rift and Tera have slots, inventory space, bank slots, AH sell access, and such locked unless you pay for them.  Even if that's your definition EQ2 still has stuff locked behind the sub and a lot of other things that cost to unlock or acquire.

    I don't mind a sub option at all, but I hope it is like Tera or Rift's sub option.  Those are great for leveling.

    Centuries ago, in primitive times, before the dawn of civilization, there were things that would be inconceivable to us today; such things as poverty, disease, violence, senility, and love.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 8,250Member Rare
    Originally posted by Mischief
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Ziegler

    customer service declines, over community declines, hacking increase, scamming increases...but all of that is acceptable since profits increase too.

    when EQ2 went ftp, none of this happened making the game worse

    I was a subscriber during EQ2's ftp transition

    I was subscribed at the time as well but when they did the transition it seemed more like they were trying to do an extended trial of the game rather than making their revenue from the F2P.  At least in the beginning it felt that way.  I did find it annoying however they kept dedicating their new art assets for armor and housing items to the cash shop instead of things we could earn in game as a subscriber, but that started even before the transition to F2P. 

    It felt like that to me too, when the game was still EQ2X and the very early days after the entire game transitioned.  It didn't make the game worse though and none of the fud Zeigler described happened.  I just think it took them a while to figure it all out.

    Centuries ago, in primitive times, before the dawn of civilization, there were things that would be inconceivable to us today; such things as poverty, disease, violence, senility, and love.
  • ice-vortexice-vortex Posts: 953Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     EQN will be F2P so I am curious to see how a PLEX-like system is going to be implemented.

    i could be totally wrong

    but im expecting EQN to be a freemium game - with both ftp and sub options

    Freemium doesn't even really exist in EQ1 and EQ2 anymore. So I doubt it will rear its ugly head again in EQN.

    You can subscribe to EQ2 and some things are locked squarely behind the sub, even if they're small.  How is that not Freemium?

    Dragon's Prophet is not freemium, but that might be more the way Runewaker setup their game than SoE.  I don't see why they wouldn't go freemium unless they go the Perfect World / Cryptic route of monetizaiton like in STO and Neverwinter.

    A subscription option does not equate to freemium. Freemium means a lot of the content and features are locked and you either have to subscribe or pay to unlock them.

    That isn't how I've thought of Freemium.  You're describing pretty much every game out there, even the least restrictive.  Even Rift and Tera have slots, inventory space, bank slots, AH sell access, and such locked unless you pay for them.  Even if that's your definition EQ2 still has stuff locked behind the sub and a lot of other things that cost to unlock or acquire.

    I don't mind a sub option at all, but I hope it is like Tera or Rift's sub option.  Those are great for leveling.

    When I say features, I literally mean full fledged features, classes, races, skills, etc. When I say content, I mean things like zones, dungeons, raids, quests, etc.

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