Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

[Column] World of Warcraft: Competitive WoW

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,572MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

In today's WoW Factor, we take a look at competitive play in the world's favorite MMO, World of Warcraft. Nothing says endgame like great PvP. See what we think about the competitive nature of WoW and then leave your thoughts in the comments.

Welcome back to the WoW Factor. This past weekend MLG held its spring championship in Anaheim, California where professional StarCraft 2, Black Ops 2 and League of Legends players gathered in a grand spectacle of competition. Thousands of caffeinated fans of these games gathered to watch their favorite players and teams battle on one of the largest stages of video game competition in the world. Being a fan of eSports myself, I thought it might be a good time to take a look at World of Warcraft and how it pertains to competitive play. 

Read more of Reza Lackey's The WoW Factor: Competitive WoW.

image

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

image

Comments

  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    I dont feel that pvp was the most competitive part of wow. The end game raiding and guild progression is where the big leagues are. Pvp is just there to keep the kiddos busy. When I was an avid raider, the stakes felt pretty high. Realm firsts and world ranking was very important nit just in my guild, but others as well. There was alot of heated arguments sometimes amongst guildies and sometimes between rival raiding guilds. You could easily tell how serious it was and the emotion that the competitive juices brought forth.

    Competive pve just feels very different and its not the first thing you think of when talking about competive gaming, but when you get people watching that have an expectation and you do something either wrong or out of the ordinary, the impulsive reaction of the fans is priceless. Pve is easier for the fans to follow as well and you essentially get more commentary from the base. I wish more games would implement competitive pve. WoW just happens to be the major leage all in its own.
  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    I normally avoid dictionary discussions, but I'm wondering about the best use of "esport". 

    I've occassionally used it to refer to any competitive/exclusive-to-skill content, but would it be better if I reserved it for gaming with an audience? (for situations where there's a concept of a professional player paid to play competitively)?

     
     
  • trenshodtrenshod charlotte, MIPosts: 128Member
    I think the PvP in WoW is very solid however, the way its played as a esport in comparison to average joe end game grind is quite different. I'll agree WoW hasn't ever really been about earth shattering PvP end game its been about PvE raiding. Not sure how you could really turn that into a esport (man that would be some boring shit to watch).
  • vkejaivkejai walesPosts: 97Member
    Personally I would like to see WoW implement something like GW2 has done and Daoc done the best for PvP... An open warzone with castles, towers etc, with no player cap. There really isnt much more WoW can progress in PvE as they seem to have everything in place very well. They should really concentrate non instanced PvP.
  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    @ trenshod - personally I think watching anything is boring but thats why I play video games. These esports and gaming tv...... It just doesnt appeal to me at all. Its one thing when I get the last kill in the cod match I just played, but even if I played the match and didnt get the last kill myself I could care less to watch it, and that was something I was actually a part of, now take that and magnify it by 1000 and thats how much I care to watch something im not actually participating in.

    I have tried to watch twitch, but all I ended up doing was surfing twitch channels to see who's got the best cleavage shot of the day. Like to give a shout out to Yoni btw
  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by vkejai
    Personally I would like to see WoW implement something like GW2 has done and Daoc done the best for PvP... An open warzone with castles, towers etc, with no player cap. There really isnt much more WoW can progress in PvE as they seem to have everything in place very well. They should really concentrate non instanced PvP.
    The original version of Lake Wintergrasp did not have a player cap. It didnt go over very well.


    Tol Barad went over even worse than Lake Wintergrasp.


    MoP doesnt have a PvP zone so Blizzard is probaly done with the PvP zone concept.

  • FreezzoFreezzo EnschedePosts: 235Member

    I really enjoy watching Starcraft 2 matches on live streams. I do not get the fun of League of Legends (or any other MOBA for that matter) or Call of Duty (but that's probably because I like BF3/PS2 and tanks). That doesn't mean it can't be fun for others and I'm aware of that.

    Now, leading to my actual point, the great thing about these games is that, when watching, you could actually decide to buy the game or hop in if your already own it. You can play on an equal ground with the pros and then lose some because of lack of skill.

    Compare this to WoW, or any other MMORPG, and you'll see the difference. Not only does your non-WoW player (or player that's unfamiliar with WoWs skills and classes at endgame,  like me) get lost in watching, the commentary is just a huge load of jibberjabbering. Also if I wanted to play and see if I can do it, I'd have to jump into the game, level my sorry bum to 90 and gear up before I've got the ability to even try to play at the same starting level.

    The concept of having to have an above basic understanding of the game (as with arena battles) won't do it for almost anyone that isn't playing WoW and has never done so. Battlegrounds might be more enjoyable to watch, but then again there's also the barrier of entry. Don't say low-level battlegrounds, because they get ruined by heirlooms and therefore do require the same idea of gearing up.

    I just don't believe MMORPGs are fit for e-sports, no matter how badly we want it. The only possible options I see are GW2 (with the upleveling to be viable and it being fairly easy to understand) and PS2 (fps does the trick).

    @Battlerock: Same can be said for sports, look how many watch those. I personally enjoy spectating a good game of chess or starcraft 2, certainly not mainstream. That doesn't mean I go and spread the word about how little I care for watching football.

    "We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
    And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  • SirFubarSirFubar SeoulPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    I dont feel that pvp was the most competitive part of wow. The end game raiding and guild progression is where the big leagues are. Pvp is just there to keep the kiddos busy. When I was an avid raider, the stakes felt pretty high. Realm firsts and world ranking was very important nit just in my guild, but others as well. There was alot of heated arguments sometimes amongst guildies and sometimes between rival raiding guilds. You could easily tell how serious it was and the emotion that the competitive juices brought forth.

    Competive pve just feels very different and its not the first thing you think of when talking about competive gaming, but when you get people watching that have an expectation and you do something either wrong or out of the ordinary, the impulsive reaction of the fans is priceless. Pve is easier for the fans to follow as well and you essentially get more commentary from the base. I wish more games would implement competitive pve. WoW just happens to be the major leage all in its own.

    You got to be kidding me... If you think there's something competitive about 2 guilds racing for a dungeon/raid completion, you either have a weird definition of competition or you never played a real competitive game. There's nothing challenging in PvE, everything is out there on the internet and even in game that explains you how to do the dungeons/raids. How can that be competitive? PvP is were the competition will always be, its not there for the kiddos to stay busy, that's what the PvE is for. Competitive PvE is something that doesn't even exist because there's nothing competitive about it.

  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    @sirfubar you act like anything anyone can think of you can figure out faster and more efficiently than anyone your perfect for competitive pve
  • newbinatornewbinator LA, CAPosts: 780Member
    I enjoy the PvP in WoW. Mainly battlegrounds and World PvP. I wish there were more reasons to world PvP though. Like objectives that grant bonuses to your entire faction.
  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    I used to love me some AB back in the day.  I loved holding a point as a Forsaken S&B warrior against half of the alliance team by myself.  I was a very pointy wall.  However I think I'm now done with PvP that relies to much on gear and more than two hotbar of moves.
     

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon
    I've never been much of a fan of PvP in most games,  In WoW I really haven't done much PvP since the days of Crossroads and Tarren Mill raids.
  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,398Member Uncommon

    WoW's arena PvP was (and still is) extremely competitive and has a very, very high skill cap.  People take great pride and get a lot of respect for being the top 3v3 on their server, on their battleground, in their region (NA, EU, KR, ect.), and in the world. 

    Additionally, like 3v3, being one of the best players of your class also garners a lot of respect.  Having been on a sponsored team (or in Dignitas's case, still sponsored) is also a major source of pride.  WoW PvP streams are still some of the highest watched streams for any video game..which still says a lot.

    PvE is also very competitive and those guilds battling for World and region first raid at insane hours.  More people do PvE simply because PvE is easier (when using addons and reading guides) but I would argue that PvP fans are more fanatic and dare I say....hardcore.

  • NephelaiNephelai SydneyPosts: 182Member Uncommon

    While the top players in the world are most likely great at any game they try I just don't get MMO PvP as a test of player skill in general. Different races, classes, abilities, latency, ganking and environments all make for so many other variables other than individual player skill - I understand why the average player likes this system because at some point in the journey they are able to defeat someone.

     

    Give me old fashioned Quake 1/2 1v1 death match any day.

     

     

     

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,753Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by newbinator
    I enjoy the PvP in WoW. Mainly battlegrounds and World PvP. I wish there were more reasons to world PvP though. Like objectives that grant bonuses to your entire faction.

    that would indeed be really  awesome along with the upcoming virtual realms which will bring more world pvp to the table for sure.

    image
  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 530Member Uncommon

    WoW is a PvE game at it's heart.  PvP is a tacked on feature that they try desperately to balance without avail.

     

    I would think as an eSport having class balance would be pretty important.  Really WoW spends too much time messing around with PvP.  It is a nice form of additional content for the game, but when it isn't the main focus of the game and trying to turn it into something it isn't ends up hurting both aspects of the game.  If WoW wants to be an eSport they really need to redesign their entire PvP system in such a way there is zero impact on and from PvE.

  • BookahBookah Bar Harbor, MEPosts: 259Member

    I always liked mmo pvp but never loved it until getting into wow pvp, i am one of the kinda uncommon players that raids & does lots of PVE content and I'm an avid arena player as well.

    Blizzard does an amazing job balancing the classes @ end game. Anyone who has played pvp in a few different MMO's will appreciate this. (Blizz actually has the $$ to keep active development going in pvp.)

    I.m.o. what makes wow so popular & enjoyable is that there is ALWAYS something to do, this hold true in pvp as well:  3v3, 5v5 & 2v2 Arena's,  Battlegrounds from 10v10 to 40v40 & rated battlegrounds. There is a huge active pvp community and never a dull moment.

    Also there is a great presence on twitch.tv with pretty much every class represented with pro streamers.

    If you want an MMO with an large active pvp community to test your skillz against in casual or rated content WOW cant be beat.

     

    image
  • BurninatorXBurninatorX rancho cordova, CAPosts: 25Member
    lol "Nothing says endgame like great PVP".... then why are we talking about WoW again?
  • faxnadufaxnadu HelsinkiPosts: 940Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SirFubar
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    I dont feel that pvp was the most competitive part of wow. The end game raiding and guild progression is where the big leagues are. Pvp is just there to keep the kiddos busy. When I was an avid raider, the stakes felt pretty high. Realm firsts and world ranking was very important nit just in my guild, but others as well. There was alot of heated arguments sometimes amongst guildies and sometimes between rival raiding guilds. You could easily tell how serious it was and the emotion that the competitive juices brought forth.

    Competive pve just feels very different and its not the first thing you think of when talking about competive gaming, but when you get people watching that have an expectation and you do something either wrong or out of the ordinary, the impulsive reaction of the fans is priceless. Pve is easier for the fans to follow as well and you essentially get more commentary from the base. I wish more games would implement competitive pve. WoW just happens to be the major leage all in its own.

    You got to be kidding me... If you think there's something competitive about 2 guilds racing for a dungeon/raid completion, you either have a weird definition of competition or you never played a real competitive game. There's nothing challenging in PvE, everything is out there on the internet and even in game that explains you how to do the dungeons/raids. How can that be competitive? PvP is were the competition will always be, its not there for the kiddos to stay busy, that's what the PvE is for. Competitive PvE is something that doesn't even exist because there's nothing competitive about it.

    pvp for kiddos he says and then saying pve was competitive where 40 people run like train for example on bwl in order just to complete and only flaws where if someone constantly went to toilet. this is the type of player that after raid got new candy , travels to ironforge to show hes cone and ignore everyone who dont have it . face(not palm) punch.

  • sportsfansportsfan BlankenbergePosts: 431Member

    Great title.

    Because I think "competition" is what makes good games tick.

    Not only in PvP, but the author makes a brand new stand: both PvP and PvE can be considered competitive game play.

    It is one of the reasons why we play video games these days: to ... BRAG about things we did.

    "Hey I downed X in hard mode, hey I got all achievements in Y, hey I have 2 avatars in hardcore alive and kicking."

    Those above who do NOT see this is a great motivation to play these days are no longer following the industry.

    And it must be said: Blizzard knows this mechanism better than any other game maker.

    All over the web you find "progress" websites as Blizzard delivers the player data.

     

    Great mechanic to keeps you playing.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    ^^ Nobody says 'hey I downed blah in x mode' anymore in wow. The game used to celebrate real skill and competitive edge in pve, but blizzard wrecked that with their policy of gradually lowering the difficulty of any instance over time, so everyone is a winner (just like they treat kids at nursery)

    Re game performance, there is a culture of complaint against high performers (dps whore etc, you are only good because of you gear etc, class is op, balance screwed with every tier etc). This same culture attacks up and comming players who are perceived as low performers.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon

    As for someone who used to hardcore PvP and heroic raid in this game, I can tell you that PvP has fallen to the lowest of lows.  The raiding in terms of gameplay has been really good, but story and the direction of the game have been worse ever since cataclysm.  

    Im hoping Titan is a WoW 2.0 with new everything, number crunch ( tanks having 1 million hp is retarded ) , and a ton of new additions.  Another game to shake the industry but modern and less tedious.   

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • Furion-HunterFurion-Hunter kingston upon thamesPosts: 43Member
    Would like it if they could bring back that Hardcore feeling back to the game, Untill then I will not be resubbing. Vanilla WoW ! <3 you shall never be forgotten! :D
Sign In or Register to comment.