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Is FFXIV as deep as FFXI?

Shack67Shack67 Bridgeport, NYPosts: 16Member

One of the biggest reasons I played FFXI for years was due to the games complexity.  Weapon types would have modifiers according to enemy type, the moon phases would affect crafting and drop rates, days of the week affecting that element type for crafting/abilities, fame system, weather affects spawning different enemies, and so much more.  

 

Crafting was incredibly deep as well due to every single drop in the game being used.  Will crafting be the main focus of the economy in FFXIV?  Will I be able to create +1 type items?  Will the system be as complex (such as waiting for the right moon phase, facing the right direction, etc?)

 

Are the systems in FFXIV as complex as FFXI?

 

 

If a man does his best, what else is there?

Comments

  • ArakaziArakazi OxfordPosts: 889Member
  • khameleonkhameleon Miami, FLPosts: 372Member

    It is a lot better game than FFXI is though. 

    Combat is still slow, but a lil faster and  more fun. You can jump and travel around the terrain better, the UI is 100x better, and there are a lot of modern things in this game that are not in FFXI.

    Still a very deep game too.

    GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!

  • tommygunzIItommygunzII Roanoke, VAPosts: 321Member

    FFXI was like the ocean, big and scary with many mysteries., an explorers dream.

    FFXIV seems like a pool with a diving board and slide. Not as big, not as dark, but more fun for the family. 

     

    Sorry for the edit.

     

     

  • KhebelnKhebeln BelfastPosts: 727Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tommygunzII

    FFXI was like the ocean, big and scary with many mysteries.

    FFXIV seems like a pool. Not as big, not as dark, but more fun.

    In other words FF14 ARR is more modern and streamlined, that alone makes it look less complicated. Even if its not.

    The games is made in a way to steadily introduce more and more layers of chalenges and mechanics as you level.

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  • tommygunzIItommygunzII Roanoke, VAPosts: 321Member
    I am a huge fan of FFXI and even though this isn't FFXI, it is a very good, fun game.
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,423Member Uncommon

    No but no game is so you and myself need to realize that the industry if anything is moving towards cheaper games and free to play designs.So unless we accept another game outside of FFXI we will be  playing nothing else but FFXI.

    It is a wonderful environment the world is typical FF,huge cities graphics are great ,still lots to do.I think i like crafting/harvesting better in this game than FFXI.

    Combat in any game will not match FFXI but this game does an ok job ,not great but mainstream i like to call it.There is no conquest points system or outpost warps,they went easier in the travel  mainly because mainstream gamer's want easier travel.

    In reality most of the input this game got is from new wave gamer's,people in their staff playing modern games,so that is the direction they are following.The old school guys who brought us the sub class and FF1/3/4/5 are not influencing this game,that is why it looks mainstream.Their staff was TOLD by the big shots,no more outlandish creativity ,they want mainstream gaming.That might sound bad for now but then again ,d owe really want anymore crazy ideas like Retainers?

    IMO Square Enix has been by far the most creative developer out there.When i logged into FFXi i had choice and many of them,when i played other games,i knew all i was going to be doing was following yellow markers around until i got bored.This game sort of as i said is following modern trends but i don't feel compelled to only do linear questing and there is not enough quests to do that anyhow.

    I like to add that i believe there will be a huge market in this game,just like FFXI gil is tough to come by and hang onto,get out your mining picks :P.


    Samoan Diamond

  • WaldoeWaldoe allentown, PAPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by Khebeln
    Originally posted by tommygunzII

    FFXI was like the ocean, big and scary with many mysteries.

    FFXIV seems like a pool. Not as big, not as dark, but more fun.

    In other words FF14 ARR is more modern and streamlined, that alone makes it look less complicated. Even if its not.

    The games is made in a way to steadily introduce more and more layers of chalenges and mechanics as you level.

    ^^This. Everyone that says it is easy or not as deep does not understand Yoshi P's vision for the game. He intentionally made the game start with the basics and then continue to widen it and introduce more and more as you progress through the levels, world, and content. 

  • Shack67Shack67 Bridgeport, NYPosts: 16Member

    Which I think is an excellent idea.  Since I work on the weekends, I haven't gotten to spend much time with the beta so I was just hoping to get some clarification on the nitty gritty stuff going on under the hood.  It sounds like much of what I described (mostly the heavy emphasis on the elemental wheel) has been removed.

     

     

    If a man does his best, what else is there?

  • tommygunzIItommygunzII Roanoke, VAPosts: 321Member

    The elemental wheel is still there, but moon phase is not. It's hard for me to say at this point how the elements will play into things, but at the least they are there right now even if it is only for enemy resistances.

    I think the crafting and gathering is great, it's one of my favorite parts of the game. Seems to be as deep as it is fun too.

    I didn't think to look for the weapon modifiers like blunt, slashing, and piercing but for some reason it seemed like my archer hit the bird family a little harder, I could be wrong though.

  • PhramePhrame Philadelphia, PAPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by tommygunzII

    The elemental wheel is still there, but moon phase is not. It's hard for me to say at this point how the elements will play into things, but at the least they are there right now even if it is only for enemy resistances.

    The elemental wheel is only in the game from a defensive standpoint (i.e. you can reduce the amount of damage you take from a certain element via your resistances) but from an attack standpoint there is no difference which element of spell you cast. Just a clarification.

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon

    ff14 has more depth than people think it does but it doesnt just dropkick you into it like 11 did, that's the big difference.  11's learning dropoff was nearly as bad as eve's (also one of my fav games but hey, it has its flaws)

     

    14 teaches you the game over the course of, i'd say the first 25 levels.

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  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,546Member Uncommon
    its like comparing EQ1 to EQ2
  • tollboothtollbooth grants pass, ORPosts: 298Member

    Not even close.

     

    After reading Yoshi's letters it's apparent he thinks modern gamers can't handle complex systems.

  • MagikrorriMMagikrorriM Binghamton, NYPosts: 176Member Uncommon

    Well depth covers a wide range. Consider that it's still in beta, which ultimately things are subject to change. However, if you look at the positive posts about the game you will find a couple of common words used, fun and addicted. In a game that hasn't shown it's potential yet, has already got people buying CE, from a few weekends of testing and fun factor being the dominate reason.  Something to consider anyways, I would suggest you cut your teeth on the open beta and be your own judge.

    Come to think of it when was the last time you heard someone describe a game as being fun? Not innovative, or revolutionary, but plain ole fun.

  • Shack67Shack67 Bridgeport, NYPosts: 16Member
    Originally posted by MagikrorriM
    Well depth covers a wide range. Consider that it's still in beta, which ultimately things are subject to change. However, if you look at the positive posts about the game you will find a couple of common words used, fun and addicted. In a game that hasn't shown it's potential yet, has already got people buying CE, from a few weekends of testing and fun factor being the dominate reason.  Something to consider anyways, I would suggest you cut your teeth on the open beta and be your own judge.

     

    Oh the fun factor is not something I'm worried about.  From the little I've played and from understanding of how questing and leveling will work, fun is certainly not an issue.  The game looks great and I'm actually nervous I'll fall in love all over again like I did with FFXI.  This thread was more or less to find out if the game had some really complex systems in place like I mentioned previously.  

    If a man does his best, what else is there?

  • MagikrorriMMagikrorriM Binghamton, NYPosts: 176Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shack67
    Originally posted by MagikrorriM
    Well depth covers a wide range. Consider that it's still in beta, which ultimately things are subject to change. However, if you look at the positive posts about the game you will find a couple of common words used, fun and addicted. In a game that hasn't shown it's potential yet, has already got people buying CE, from a few weekends of testing and fun factor being the dominate reason.  Something to consider anyways, I would suggest you cut your teeth on the open beta and be your own judge.

     

    Oh the fun factor is not something I'm worried about.  From the little I've played and from understanding of how questing and leveling will work, fun is certainly not an issue.  The game looks great and I'm actually nervous I'll fall in love all over again like I did with FFXI.  This thread was more or less to find out if the game had some really complex systems in place like I mentioned previously.  

    Well what Yoshi-P sets out to do is teach old school mmo mechanics and values, to new to mmo players. The term depth is still subjective, since the game is not fully available as of yet, you're asking a question that cannot be answered, Housing, PvP, raids, are not yet implemented.

    My experience with the game thus far has been one on emphasis of preparedness, old school strats, even in crafting no less. Personally I think depth would depend on the player and how they play the game, if players limit themselves, to skimming through the text, frustration at the early stages of combat, they are not likely going to experience depth in any manner. In this game depth is highly subjective on each individuals approach to the game.

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 772Member Uncommon

    FFXI was never overly deep to begin with. They created an amazing world and decided to throw in an insane amount of grind so you'd spend years traversing it all (if ever). The job system was fun, but inflexible if you didn't want to be gimped. The crafting kind of sucked since it took a lot of materials and I seemed to fail more often than not so I'd lose them and gain nothing. Forced grouping was fun for a little while, but eventually I'd spend hours sitting around doing nothing but messaging people in the zone and hoping they had a spot available for my job, and many times, I'd finally find one after hours of waiting, just for us all to wipe on the first pull and split up.

    Etc., etc.

    The world and the storyline is what kept me playing for about a year and a half. If Eorzea is a beautiful and somewhat mysterious place, and the storyline is awesome, I'm really gonna enjoy this game -- maybe even more, who knows.  Whether it lives up to that or not, just gonna have to wait and see.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shack67

    One of the biggest reasons I played FFXI for years was due to the games complexity.  Weapon types would have modifiers according to enemy type, the moon phases would affect crafting and drop rates, days of the week affecting that element type for crafting/abilities, fame system, weather affects spawning different enemies, and so much more.  

    Crafting was incredibly deep as well due to every single drop in the game being used.  Will crafting be the main focus of the economy in FFXIV?  Will I be able to create +1 type items?  Will the system be as complex (such as waiting for the right moon phase, facing the right direction, etc?)

    Are the systems in FFXIV as complex as FFXI?

    Some are, some aren't. The shortest answer i can give is that they are different.

    Things like weather, seem to play much less of a role in FFXIV (even though it was something I also enjoyed in FFXI, it's not something that's necessary, tbh).

    Unlike FFXI, each spell / skill seems to serve a purpose. For example, Fire II won't automatically outclass Fire I, as ones an AoE and the other is not in XIV. However, there are some skills that stack (Thunder I, II) and others that combo as you lvl up (pugilist). In some ways it is definitely more streamlined, in others it is just as complex. There are still resistances in this game, which makes me wonder if they will play a much larger role once people start using the Job souls (in beta we are limited to the basic classes, and the jobs will have very different skill compositions, with some overlaps).

    As for crafting, it's much less dependant on the weather, but it's also a lot less random. You now have skills to use strategically as you craft, to try and get the best quality outcome, or create the item before you run out of durability. This, imho, makes crafting more fun, though gathering I can see getting very tedious as a result.

    The only thing I can definitively say is less complicated in FFXIV are the limit breaks. This is something I HOPE gets changed. I've been busy lately, but once I get done traveling I'll definitely have to check to see if there is a petiition for this. The way it is now, your entire group shares the same limit break bar. Certain fights give you more than 1 bar, but it's very, very dumbed down. Many of the classes also share the same limit breaks early on. I assume this changes later, but it's impossible to say at this point. The only thing I can say, is there is absolutely no skill chains. This is something I feel was a mistake to leave out. Maybe they didn't have time, who knows, but skillchains were an amazing part of the FFXI combat system, that eventually got shoved out in the name of simplicity and solo-friendly content.

  • MegaTrANMegaTrAN fontana, CAPosts: 11Member
    I've been in the betas so far and the world as a whole doesn't feel as dangerous as XI. You can take up to 4 monsters at a time with potions and self heals. Everything is just a lot easier and quests are easier, navigating the map is easier. Gobbies dont aggro (as part of the Story Line).
  • Maik36Maik36 Indianapolis, INPosts: 59Member
    Originally posted by Shack67

    One of the biggest reasons I played FFXI for years was due to the games complexity.  Weapon types would have modifiers according to enemy type, the moon phases would affect crafting and drop rates, days of the week affecting that element type for crafting/abilities, fame system, weather affects spawning different enemies, and so much more.  

     

    Crafting was incredibly deep as well due to every single drop in the game being used.  Will crafting be the main focus of the economy in FFXIV?  Will I be able to create +1 type items?  Will the system be as complex (such as waiting for the right moon phase, facing the right direction, etc?)

     

    Are the systems in FFXIV as complex as FFXI?

     

     

    I don't necessarily think complex always = good or best, especially in the examples you gave.  Also, "deep" doesn't always involve complex things. Many games are easy, but at the same time have a meaningful or deep story, or vice versa.

    How many people used the weapon with crappy stats, but with the added bonus "plant killer" over say the relic weapon? Not many people.

    Who wants to worry about the day of the week, moon cycle/phase, element of the day while crafting, or  wait for a monster that only appears in weather that may not occur for several hours at time? Ain't nobody got time for that.

    FFXI's groundbreaking, complex, deep gameplay was very tedious and time-consuming. Ain't nobody got time for that.

    Everything in FFXIV has been simplified and made easier for the casual player, but that doesn't mean there aren't  complex things to be found, like the story and crafting. The crafting may not involve weather, moon phase, or element of the day, but it involves a lot of other stuff, like the use of crafting specific skills, level, and crafting bonuses on armor. Crafting is also very important to FFXIV's economy. Some of the best gear comes from crafting. Not to mention potions, food, and repairs. Certain things can only be gotten by gatherers.

    Moreover, combat is way more dynamic in that you need to dodge AOEs by running out of the circle that surrounds the enemy, or running to the backside when it uses a frontal attack. Whether you attack the monster from the front, side or back matters, as well as how you're moving, like to the sides or backwards.

    Little things like that make FFXIV complex in its own right.

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