Here is a better "Reality Check" nobody will ever tell me how to play a game I purchased. Nobody has the right to tell me I need to play a game a certain way. I never followed the "it" spec when I played WoW years ago or any other MMO I have played. I will play my way and if others want to be sheep then go for it.
I'll use WoW as a example of how I feel, you join the LFG finder in that game (I call it the Amish Sex machine. No talking or eye contact and in and out as quick as possible) and then go haring off as if time to completion was the main goal of the thing. If one player dies, or a pull goes wrong, half the group immediately quits (sometimes without the 5 yr old in Wal-Mart breakdown, sometimes with) as if the continuation of the run would damage their overall time score.
In the newer games, if you haven't played the "beta" and foolishly start playing the game at launch (like a nub), you will definately feel the pain of being berated/kicked out of groups because you are not a expert at the various instances.
I don't see any of this changing until Developers stop enabling it by adding things like the LFG finders and using betas as a marketing tool.
WoW has a time score? Wouldn't that be to blame for promoting the kind of behavior you describe, and not an auto grouping feature?
I like that XIV is removing speed runs/timers. Plus with the way encounters work and limit breaks I don't see how a party can get by without talking to coordinate their play.
I've never had the problem you described with the XIV community, but I always make it a point to talk in every party I'm in.
I think what really hurts good PUG'ing (which DID occur in 1.x and hopefully will be minimized in ARR like they have said they intend to) is when content is forced to be spammed. When this happens people quickly lose patience and just want optimal runs so they can finally get done with content they no longer enjoy.
I'll use WoW as a example of how I feel, you join the LFG finder in that game (I call it the Amish Sex machine. No talking or eye contact and in and out as quick as possible) and then go haring off as if time to completion was the main goal of the thing. If one player dies, or a pull goes wrong, half the group immediately quits (sometimes without the 5 yr old in Wal-Mart breakdown, sometimes with) as if the continuation of the run would damage their overall time score.
In the newer games, if you haven't played the "beta" and foolishly start playing the game at launch (like a nub), you will definately feel the pain of being berated/kicked out of groups because you are not a expert at the various instances.
I don't see any of this changing until Developers stop enabling it by adding things like the LFG finders and using betas as a marketing tool.
WoW has a time score? Wouldn't that be to blame for promoting the kind of behavior you describe, and not an auto grouping feature?
I like that XIV is removing speed runs/timers. Plus with the way encounters work and limit breaks I don't see how a party can get by without talking to coordinate their play.
I've never had the problem you described with the XIV community, but I always make it a point to talk in every party I'm in.
I think what really hurts good PUG'ing (which DID occur in 1.x and hopefully will be minimized in ARR like they have said they intend to) is when content is forced to be spammed. When this happens people quickly lose patience and just want optimal runs so they can finally get done with content they no longer enjoy.
WoW doesn't have a time score, I said as if it had a timed score.
Heh, I remember the day TSW launched. I joined a PUG for the first team-dungeon. I got yelled at for not knowing the bossfights.
I politely reminded them that the game launched today, and although I wasn't new to MMOs, I was new to this game -and certainly new to this dungeon.
Then I was told that if I was too stupid to read up on a dungeon before entering, I shouldn't play MMOs. Yes, it did hurt a little. I still remember it
To keep a long and boring story long and boring, I do think the MMO community is its own worst enemy some times. It isn't easy be'in green, but in MMOs you'd better have a thick hide.
where is the fun if you already know what is going to happen... this is why I hate the mmo community sometimes
Originally posted by hockeyplayr Originally posted by BjelarHeh, I remember the day TSW launched. I joined a PUG for the first team-dungeon. I got yelled at for not knowing the bossfights.I politely reminded them that the game launched today, and although I wasn't new to MMOs, I was new to this game -and certainly new to this dungeon.Then I was told that if I was too stupid to read up on a dungeon before entering, I shouldn't play MMOs. Yes, it did hurt a little. I still remember it :(To keep a long and boring story long and boring, I do think the MMO community is its own worst enemy some times. It isn't easy be'in green, but in MMOs you'd better have a thick hide.
where is the fun if you already know what is going to happen... this is why I hate the mmo community sometimes I agree - that's the biggest reason I quit WoW. I refused to go watch a bunch of youtube videos of how it's done. I play the game to figure out how it's done, finding new challenges and figuring out how to overcome them is fun to me - not mimicking someone else's victory.
I can totally understand if my "playing the game" inhibits someone else's fun though, so I just don't play with those people. Although, truth be told, when I was playing WoW, 98.7% of the time the problem with our raiding wasn't me not having watched a video...
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 When I was 14 World of Warcraft originally came out.... I played a Holy Paladin and I raided within the first 4 months of the game. I did MC, Naxx, AQ20, and AQ40 as each of the individual raids were released. Is it so bad to yell at a person for their "first time" when I myself was raiding at the age of 14? Man that was a long time ago... anyways no excuse!
Do you not see his profile pic and how serious he is??? This man has a +10 epeen, better watch out before he wtfpwn's you!
Then I was told that if I was too stupid to read up on a dungeon before entering, I shouldn't play MMOs. Yes, it did hurt a little. I still remember it
I would have replied with, if you're too stupid to explain the details of a boss fight before the fight begins, then you can't expect everyone else to magically know what you didn't tell them.
All that a lot of PUGs need is for someone to take charge and explain any peculiar details of the situation and then it will be a perfectly good group.
I see a lot of posts about people who play the game and are bad at it . People say these people MUST be on PS3 ( I play on PC with a gamepad).The fact is if your new to a MMO you do not know what your roll is in the game. So a new player to a MMO who rolls as a GLD might not understand that there in charge of controlling hate . Not sure that there supposed to be keeping the Mobs away from the mages . I wonder to the people bashing others has this ever crossed your minds? Remember your first MMO I am sure no one here was awesome at there class. When I First played a MMO it was FFXI on the PS2. I did not understand my roll until I found a group of people who showed me the ropes. After that and in the 7 years I played on my ps2 I had no issues at all . People think that people who use the PS3 are inferior but that is not even the case . It is a matter of players skill and knowledge of there roll . For some people here to come off all holier then thou is a turn off for people who might other wise enjoy the game. I think next time why not teach the person how to play in a group then bash them . We had a GLD in our group who had no idea what he was doing . Not a clue . But after the 4th set of mobs in TT I stopped the party and explained what he should be doing in a party . After he listened to me explain how he should hold hate the rest of the dungeon went along great . So take the time and explain things to people in groups . Not everyone is a MMO expert . Keep that in mind
As a side note ill add this If you play as these classes
GLD . Your role in a party is to keep hate on the mobs . You should never have the enemies facing the mages . You should always make sure the mobs focus is you . You control the pace of the combat . You let a mob free to attack your mages your party can fail fast.
MRD . Your roll is like GLD you are the Second "tank" class you should help control the hate in the group if the GLD can not do it you should step in to pick up stray mobs.
PLD by the time you unlock this JOB you should know what you are doing .
WAR same as PLD
ARC,PUG,LNC you are the DDs ( Damage Dealers ) your roll is to attack the mobs . Always fight the mob the GLD, MRD.PLD,WAR is attacking first . The GLD,MRD,PLD,WAR controls the battle . IF you are attacking a mob they are not you could make it harder for the CNJ,WHM to heal . And also because of this force the CNJ,WHM to take hate and could end up killing them . (applies to advanced jobs also MNK,DRG BRD is a support DD )
THM,BLM are also DDS and at times support healers and DoTs. (Damage over Time) As a BLM you have strong damaging spells that can cause a lot of hate . You will learn to "Nuke" the enemies . If you nuke to fast you take hate . So it is best to learn control for the parties sake . DDs and Tank if the THM,BLM even WHM cast a sleep on mobs . Follow the tanks lead . ONLY attack the one there attacking . The mages slept them for a reason and going to attack any random enemy wile it is asleep without the tank counter acted the process.
"Only Fools rush in" I say this because there are a lot of people who do not like to wait for the mage to cast Protect and BRD buffs . You should always wait for the mage to cast buffs on the party . More protection is never a bad thing .
SO please people try to help the player not put them down . Become a teacher not a arse . And remember this is still beta .
This is exactly why I stopped playing WoW, and generally stay away from grouping in MMOs all together. I remember when Cat had been out for nearly a year when I decided to try it out. After all the questing, when I could start doing raids, I would get kicked from every pug for not knowing the boss fights and needing a few tries to figure it out. I'm interested in FFXV, and played the beta on the PS3 a bit yesterday. I might get it for the PC when it comes out....My old brain just doesn't do good with a controller. Keyboard and mouse have always been easier for me...That and the targetting sucks. Whenever I join a FATE event, I kept targeting PC's unless I was right in front of a bad guy. On the otherhand, sometimes it is easy to come off as being an elitist when you're just trying to help, in a text based system.
For example:
You keep substituting their with there. "Their" refers to something that is a person's, like his or her or your (It is their party). "There" is a place (they partied there). Not trying to be a grammar nazi, you are clearly an intelligent person.<----Example of how trying give friendly advise in text can come off as someone just being a grammar nazi a-hole, even if their trying to be helpful.
vs.
OMFG YOU GRAMMAR NOOB! IT'S THEIR NOT THERE. HOW CAN YOU NOT GRASP THIS BASIC CONCEPT OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE?!?!?! GO GOOGLE IT BEFORE YOU EVER TYPE ANYTHING EVER AGAIN!!!!!
It's our duty as veterans to show new people the ropes. If you take the time to help these people they will never forget you. Nobody forgets their teachers
That gives you more fame and more people that wave to you. Which is always nice.
I remember making the switch from FFXI to WoW back in the day. I tanked in both. My warrior in WoW would become one of those rare few that NEVER had issues holding hate. I'm not talking about in WotLK where warriors actually got the tools to do the job. I'm talking about main tanking Hyjal because I actually learned to multi-mob tank as a warrior.
That statement isn't meant to brag, but simply to point out the difference between the two mentioned games. FFXI was fairly unforgiving as a tank. Hate worked differently. For WoW, losing hate was always the fault of the tank (baring certain circumstances such as large gear/level gaps or heavy AoE in vanilla). FFXI on the other hand was usually the fault of the DPS unless the WHM popped Benediction.
Especially in today's WoW, DPS should be able to go full tilt or the tank isn't doing something right. In FFXI, BLM for example, walked a razor's edge. It added another layer to dealing damage. Smart players and experienced players were more valuable than uber geared players. To sum this up, I agree with the OP. I think, or hope really, that FFXIV will be a game that should encourage us to help our newbies instead of discouraging them by bashing them on the first low level dungeon crawl. Group content in FF is different than most newer games. It may level solo, unlike FFXI, but it seems that they hit the right formula with this one and were able to maintain the group dynamics of FFXI. This is a good thing, but I think that mentally, people are far too WoW-ified to make the switch easily. I foresee a lot of jaded players in the future of this game.
It's our duty as veterans to show new people the ropes. If you take the time to help these people they will never forget you. Nobody forgets their teachers
That gives you more fame and more people that wave to you. Which is always nice.
This ^
Furthermore, and it's annoying i have to keep saying this: If you want a good group DO NOT KEEP RELYING ON PUGS!!!! I really can't stress that enough. PUGs will. always. be. a. crapshoot. Doesn't matter what game it is. Doesn't even matter how good the players or the community are. When you PUG, you are saying 'i'm too lazy, or dont have time to form a proper group, hope for the best!' To then turn around and complain that it didn't go well is just... well ironic to say the least. It's like people who continuously buy lotto scratch offs & complain when they don't win.
When I want a group for something, and I have enough time, I always look for friends / guildies first, and then fill in the rest with strangers. Furthermore, I almost always TALK to the people I'm grouping. This helps A LOT, as it gives you a decent vibe about that person you don't know. Are they friendly? Do they seem knowledgeable? Are they impatient? Are they not responsive? These are all questions that can dramatically change your experience depending on the answers. For example, a non-responsive group member is nearly always BAD. As is an impatient one. Players that aren't knowledgeable can be OKAY if they show they are willing to listen & learn. Players being friendly is pretty much my #1 criteria, and only ever gets a pass if I have no other options. I play these games to have fun, not to put up w/ some asshat because he can spam cure & medica.
- That said, one of the things I like about FFXIV:ARR is it can be fairly difficult (lvl 15 quests, oh boy). Because of this, it is VERY important to learn your class before going into dungeons. Nothing is more frustrating than someone trying to do a dungeon as a primary role (tank / healer) with absolutely zero clue as to what they are doing. Tanks especially. For example, if you want to GLD tank, that is perfectly fine, but it's highly recommended to either bring some MAR or CNJ skills to help hold aggro / support. Also MARKING targets is a huge deal, unless you're lucky enough to have a group that can AoE tank w/ a MRD, heal, and AoE DD without anyone dying. Those tend to be rare, since the MRD has to be fairly geared (since he lacks the defense of the GLD), and your DDs have to do good dmg (so the CNJ doesn't run out of mana).
I know in beta, as a THM/CNJ, I eventually just gave up trying to sleep mobs. Even with targets marked, people would still (99/100 times) immediately hit whatever I had just slept. Luckily at later lvls there's a trait that turns that into an AoE. Hopefully by then people will learn how to focus tagets properly.
Originally posted by BjelarHeh, I remember the day TSW launched. I joined a PUG for the first team-dungeon. I got yelled at for not knowing the bossfights.I politely reminded them that the game launched today, and although I wasn't new to MMOs, I was new to this game -and certainly new to this dungeon.Then I was told that if I was too stupid to read up on a dungeon before entering, I shouldn't play MMOs. Yes, it did hurt a little. I still remember it To keep a long and boring story long and boring, I do think the MMO community is its own worst enemy some times. It isn't easy be'in green, but in MMOs you'd better have a thick hide.
where is the fun if you already know what is going to happen... this is why I hate the mmo community sometimes
I agree - that's the biggest reason I quit WoW. I refused to go watch a bunch of youtube videos of how it's done. I play the game to figure out how it's done, finding new challenges and figuring out how to overcome them is fun to me - not mimicking someone else's victory.
I can totally understand if my "playing the game" inhibits someone else's fun though, so I just don't play with those people. Although, truth be told, when I was playing WoW, 98.7% of the time the problem with our raiding wasn't me not having watched a video...
Agree. I already have few warnings from GMs being dick to people talking to me "OMG, NOOB, U DIDN'T WATCH VIDEO". Watching all tactics just killing and spoils all the fun. Even there now is Dungeon Journal, with all bosses abilities explained. Don't know who is biggest retard in that story, me to try have fun and learn hard on my own, or idiots without brain watching videos how it's done and get everything served on plate, without using brain cells.
On topic: OP, I had same experience. I played marauder and had to explain how aggro works. But most people I run dungeons already know that, so there weren't problems. It's not that everyone can pull and you just swing once and all mobs turn to you, like I played in Wow, without thinking "omg, mage pulled, np, 1 thunderclap, they are all mine". If dd pulls mob, it's hard to aggro mob back to you. Always wait for tank to pull 1st and attack mob targeted by tank. Actually, I love it. It's not challenge, but a just proper way how to play in groups. Remind me of good old days of Wow - "If you gonna get aggro, you gonna loose 50 dkp, cause you didn't know what the F to do! ."
if a person tries to lecture me in some online game in a disrespectful manner just because i was new to something i will simply say shut your bitch ass up and /ignore list
when did video games (MMOs) become life threatning just because its someone first time in a boss fight or what ever??? People needs to get a life and just sit back and think to themselves am i really yelling at this person, this is is first time here and yelling over a game. These games are meant to have fun not to be controled by and if you let that happen, your pathetic to have your life revolve around a game.
Originally posted by tkreep if a person tries to lecture me in some online game in a disrespectful manner just because i was new to something i will simply say shut your bitch ass up and /ignore list
yep i totally agree with you 100% and i would tell them, in a nicely manner while that person is in their parents basement im making a living for my self and meeting ladies and taking them back to my place while they have fun disrespecting other people on a game.
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989 When I was 14 World of Warcraft originally came out.... I played a Holy Paladin and I raided within the first 4 months of the game. I did MC, Naxx, AQ20, and AQ40 as each of the individual raids were released. Is it so bad to yell at a person for their "first time" when I myself was raiding at the age of 14? Man that was a long time ago... anyways no excuse!
I'm confused by part of what you're saying. Maybe it's on my end, but 4 months into the game? The only raids in game were MC and Onyxia in 1.1. You didn't mention Ony, so did you skip her raid entirely? Naxx (1.11 (Jun 2006)) and AQ (1.9 (Jan 2006)) weren't released until 2006. Did you skip over BWL that was released in 1.6 in July of 2005? Or ZG in Sept of that same year? You sound like you're talking out of your arse, for one. For two, your age doesn't matter when raiding.
I started raiding in Everquest way before wow was thought up when I was about that age, and I was never a douchebag about helping people learn the ropes. I was new and didn't know what I was doing, but I learned with help and no one yelled at me because most everyone was a newb to mmos then. Not knowing something IS an excuse. It's less of an excuse nowadays because you can google every encounter and know a decent amount before going in, but your claim has no merit, because it was a LOT harder to find info (let alone videos or guides) on the raids prior to running them. All yelling at someone does is discourage them from learning and it often turns them away from raiding (even though many could have become good, useful raiders) because of the connotations between raiding and elitism that they form. You are literally a part of the problem, sir.
I remember being a newb 14 years ago, and I wouldn't have had nearly as happy of a time in the last near-decade-and-a-half if those formative stages were filled with total D-bags hounding my every step without even attempting to help. Kudos to you for whatever you're proud of, but you're not a good model to follow in gaming as the entire gaming community is trying to distance itself from those kinds of attitudes while people like you pull us back.
The inability to lighten up doesn't make you hardcore.
I'd like to add this. I am palying a marauder, and they make damn good tanks in all dungeons. But too few realize we are tanks, I find myself telling potential party leaders Im a tank. Second, the dungeons and even ifrit fight are way too easy. Seriously sleep through it easy. I just spammed skull splitter while we waited for the dps check at end to beat Ifrit. I liked the CS, but the actual fight /snooze.
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing. PS3
Originally posted by Ehllfhire I'd like to add this. I am palying a marauder, and they make damn good tanks in all dungeons. But too few realize we are tanks, I find myself telling potential party leaders Im a tank. Second, the dungeons and even ifrit fight are way too easy. Seriously sleep through it easy. I just spammed skull splitter while we waited for the dps check at end to beat Ifrit. I liked the CS, but the actual fight /snooze.
That's be design.. the mechanics get harder with the later dungeons (copperbell comes to mind with the slime boss). Haukke Manor also has some mechanics you have to jugle for last boss.
Originally posted by Mtibbs1989When I was 14 World of Warcraft originally came out.... I played a Holy Paladin and I raided within the first 4 months of the game. I did MC, Naxx, AQ20, and AQ40 as each of the individual raids were released. Is it so bad to yell at a person for their "first time" when I myself was raiding at the age of 14? Man that was a long time ago... anyways no excuse!
As I read over your post I am not sure if you agreeing saying yelling at a new person is bad and you shouldn't expect every to know everything starting out. Or if you are using your experience saying you were 14 and endgame raiding in four months as an example that everyone should know what to do. If it is the former ignore my post, if it is the latter...
Yes it is bad to yell at someone, being new is a valid excuse for just about anything in life.
If you don't know how to drive a manual transmission car, what do you think would teach you better? Me yelling at you as the car stalled out for the fifth time, and finally me getting out and slamming the door while I said "I knew how to drive a manual transmission when I was 14, how can you not know. No I don't care that you haven't driven one before. Shut up noob."
Maybe it would be better if I explain how it worked, and helped you understand the basics.
When you were 14 and you rolled a paladin at the character creation screen, did you know how to do MC, Naxx and AQ20 at level 1? Did you fully understand your role as a Holy Paladin at level 1, or even at level 10? Sure you had a better idea of it by 30, but you weren't "pro" yet.
You just said you have four months of getting to that point. You didn't log in the first time and know how to get attuned to molten core, I venture to say you didn't even know where it was.
Do you think that at the time of character, the priests starting out at level 1 knew they would have to MC Rasivious' students 60 levels later?
Projecting your knowledge on the genre upon others is unfair. I have been playing MMO's longer than you, when you were 14 and cutting your teeth I already had 5 years of MMO's under my belt. Is it fair to assume that I know more than you because of that? Absolutely not, nor does it make it true.
You have many years of experience now, but that doesn't give you the right to belittle someone who has zero experience. How you treat these people has a direct effect on the game. If you yell at them and belittle them how long do you think they will stick around? They will probably say something like "This game is not for me, and quit."
Guess what that might have a been a future healer or tank that helped your group. That person might have ended up being better than you, heaven forbid.
Everyone is new at some point, and sitting there saying being new is not an excuse for not understanding the game is blatant ignorance and is an example of elitism that plagues our genre.
I like you More of us need to be standing up and taking control of these communities. I am sick to death with the "Noob" mentality and the unwillingness of people to help one another. It seems a great deal of people have stopped teaching our young/new how to be kind instead of hurtful and its sad.
And to the "I was 14 and doing blah blah blah" I had a guildie who behaved this way once, as the main tank raid healer he always wanted to group with me so when he (He also played a pally but in EQ2) decided to roll a wizard he asked to group and as a lesson I would play "How many times can I break your armor". See cause Wizards are not a priority for the healer in a group in the game I am referring to. Eventually he asked why I kept letting him die and I responded with "Why do you keep trying to tank with a wizard?" He did get the point and I actually saw a change in his mentality after that. Even on his main he was far more kind to others. I guess the moral here is that its great to be good at what you do. Its greater to be a teacher so others can be great with you. That and what goes around comes around eventually
Originally posted by tkreep if a person tries to lecture me in some online game in a disrespectful manner just because i was new to something i will simply say shut your bitch ass up and /ignore list
Have you ever played Wow? If you didn't, better. Those mentality there of selfproclaimed uber pro players "Hand of Vir'gins" are so toxic, making you want start WWIII. It doesn't matter if you new, if you really nice person, rocket or nuclear scientist, doctor or Nobel prize winner, if you're new to the game - you're n00b. By them, game is too complex too understand and you need bloody experince which is hard to get and require no life, 7 years perhaps.
I missed the part where the OP said "oh and please give me your review of the experience". Can't you troll in another one of the dozens of thread that are about "reviewing" the beta.
The OP has several he has started, keep it to there.
I do not know if this was a slam on me or a praise I am confused lol
I like that XIV is removing speed runs/timers. Plus with the way encounters work and limit breaks I don't see how a party can get by without talking to coordinate their play.
Really? Totally missed that announcement. Was that in a developer letter?
I like that XIV is removing speed runs/timers. Plus with the way encounters work and limit breaks I don't see how a party can get by without talking to coordinate their play.
Really? Totally missed that announcement. Was that in a developer letter?
Yes, but you can also find it reposted in the beta forums. They are going to still time them so that groups can compete against one another for "fastest run", if you are into that. But no more 5 chest speed runs.
Also to Inigo, neither. I just mentioned it in relation to there being plenty of threads on that topic while this one is about how to explain things to new players who are struggling with the early content.
Just got off of AoW after I was getting cussed out for failing something in a group, what makes it better is the devs added a middle finger emoticon to really get the point across. Yeah it was my fault and it was my bad but the silly thing of being virtually screamed at on a computer game is just pointless. I was ready to toy with the idea of explaining my issue with the others in my group but I was about positive it would have caused more F-bombs.
I also feel youtube and game guide wiki sites help breed the problem too. Now youre supposed to hunt for these guides before going into something so youre not the weakest link. Like someone else said what happened to experiencing these moments for yourself?
Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO
Comments
WoW has a time score? Wouldn't that be to blame for promoting the kind of behavior you describe, and not an auto grouping feature?
I like that XIV is removing speed runs/timers. Plus with the way encounters work and limit breaks I don't see how a party can get by without talking to coordinate their play.
I've never had the problem you described with the XIV community, but I always make it a point to talk in every party I'm in.
I think what really hurts good PUG'ing (which DID occur in 1.x and hopefully will be minimized in ARR like they have said they intend to) is when content is forced to be spammed. When this happens people quickly lose patience and just want optimal runs so they can finally get done with content they no longer enjoy.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
WoW doesn't have a time score, I said as if it had a timed score.
gameplay > graphics
where is the fun if you already know what is going to happen... this is why I hate the mmo community sometimes
I agree - that's the biggest reason I quit WoW. I refused to go watch a bunch of youtube videos of how it's done. I play the game to figure out how it's done, finding new challenges and figuring out how to overcome them is fun to me - not mimicking someone else's victory.
I can totally understand if my "playing the game" inhibits someone else's fun though, so I just don't play with those people. Although, truth be told, when I was playing WoW, 98.7% of the time the problem with our raiding wasn't me not having watched a video...
Do you not see his profile pic and how serious he is??? This man has a +10 epeen, better watch out before he wtfpwn's you!
I would have replied with, if you're too stupid to explain the details of a boss fight before the fight begins, then you can't expect everyone else to magically know what you didn't tell them.
All that a lot of PUGs need is for someone to take charge and explain any peculiar details of the situation and then it will be a perfectly good group.
This is exactly why I stopped playing WoW, and generally stay away from grouping in MMOs all together. I remember when Cat had been out for nearly a year when I decided to try it out. After all the questing, when I could start doing raids, I would get kicked from every pug for not knowing the boss fights and needing a few tries to figure it out. I'm interested in FFXV, and played the beta on the PS3 a bit yesterday. I might get it for the PC when it comes out....My old brain just doesn't do good with a controller. Keyboard and mouse have always been easier for me...That and the targetting sucks. Whenever I join a FATE event, I kept targeting PC's unless I was right in front of a bad guy. On the otherhand, sometimes it is easy to come off as being an elitist when you're just trying to help, in a text based system.
For example:
You keep substituting their with there. "Their" refers to something that is a person's, like his or her or your (It is their party). "There" is a place (they partied there). Not trying to be a grammar nazi, you are clearly an intelligent person.<----Example of how trying give friendly advise in text can come off as someone just being a grammar nazi a-hole, even if their trying to be helpful.
vs.
OMFG YOU GRAMMAR NOOB! IT'S THEIR NOT THERE. HOW CAN YOU NOT GRASP THIS BASIC CONCEPT OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE?!?!?! GO GOOGLE IT BEFORE YOU EVER TYPE ANYTHING EVER AGAIN!!!!!
It's our duty as veterans to show new people the ropes. If you take the time to help these people they will never forget you. Nobody forgets their teachers
That gives you more fame and more people that wave to you. Which is always nice.
I remember making the switch from FFXI to WoW back in the day. I tanked in both. My warrior in WoW would become one of those rare few that NEVER had issues holding hate. I'm not talking about in WotLK where warriors actually got the tools to do the job. I'm talking about main tanking Hyjal because I actually learned to multi-mob tank as a warrior.
That statement isn't meant to brag, but simply to point out the difference between the two mentioned games. FFXI was fairly unforgiving as a tank. Hate worked differently. For WoW, losing hate was always the fault of the tank (baring certain circumstances such as large gear/level gaps or heavy AoE in vanilla). FFXI on the other hand was usually the fault of the DPS unless the WHM popped Benediction.
Especially in today's WoW, DPS should be able to go full tilt or the tank isn't doing something right. In FFXI, BLM for example, walked a razor's edge. It added another layer to dealing damage. Smart players and experienced players were more valuable than uber geared players. To sum this up, I agree with the OP. I think, or hope really, that FFXIV will be a game that should encourage us to help our newbies instead of discouraging them by bashing them on the first low level dungeon crawl. Group content in FF is different than most newer games. It may level solo, unlike FFXI, but it seems that they hit the right formula with this one and were able to maintain the group dynamics of FFXI. This is a good thing, but I think that mentally, people are far too WoW-ified to make the switch easily. I foresee a lot of jaded players in the future of this game.
This ^
Furthermore, and it's annoying i have to keep saying this: If you want a good group DO NOT KEEP RELYING ON PUGS!!!! I really can't stress that enough. PUGs will. always. be. a. crapshoot. Doesn't matter what game it is. Doesn't even matter how good the players or the community are. When you PUG, you are saying 'i'm too lazy, or dont have time to form a proper group, hope for the best!' To then turn around and complain that it didn't go well is just... well ironic to say the least. It's like people who continuously buy lotto scratch offs & complain when they don't win.
When I want a group for something, and I have enough time, I always look for friends / guildies first, and then fill in the rest with strangers. Furthermore, I almost always TALK to the people I'm grouping. This helps A LOT, as it gives you a decent vibe about that person you don't know. Are they friendly? Do they seem knowledgeable? Are they impatient? Are they not responsive? These are all questions that can dramatically change your experience depending on the answers. For example, a non-responsive group member is nearly always BAD. As is an impatient one. Players that aren't knowledgeable can be OKAY if they show they are willing to listen & learn. Players being friendly is pretty much my #1 criteria, and only ever gets a pass if I have no other options. I play these games to have fun, not to put up w/ some asshat because he can spam cure & medica.
- That said, one of the things I like about FFXIV:ARR is it can be fairly difficult (lvl 15 quests, oh boy). Because of this, it is VERY important to learn your class before going into dungeons. Nothing is more frustrating than someone trying to do a dungeon as a primary role (tank / healer) with absolutely zero clue as to what they are doing. Tanks especially. For example, if you want to GLD tank, that is perfectly fine, but it's highly recommended to either bring some MAR or CNJ skills to help hold aggro / support. Also MARKING targets is a huge deal, unless you're lucky enough to have a group that can AoE tank w/ a MRD, heal, and AoE DD without anyone dying. Those tend to be rare, since the MRD has to be fairly geared (since he lacks the defense of the GLD), and your DDs have to do good dmg (so the CNJ doesn't run out of mana).
I know in beta, as a THM/CNJ, I eventually just gave up trying to sleep mobs. Even with targets marked, people would still (99/100 times) immediately hit whatever I had just slept. Luckily at later lvls there's a trait that turns that into an AoE. Hopefully by then people will learn how to focus tagets properly.
Agree. I already have few warnings from GMs being dick to people talking to me "OMG, NOOB, U DIDN'T WATCH VIDEO". Watching all tactics just killing and spoils all the fun. Even there now is Dungeon Journal, with all bosses abilities explained. Don't know who is biggest retard in that story, me to try have fun and learn hard on my own, or idiots without brain watching videos how it's done and get everything served on plate, without using brain cells.
On topic: OP, I had same experience. I played marauder and had to explain how aggro works. But most people I run dungeons already know that, so there weren't problems. It's not that everyone can pull and you just swing once and all mobs turn to you, like I played in Wow, without thinking "omg, mage pulled, np, 1 thunderclap, they are all mine". If dd pulls mob, it's hard to aggro mob back to you. Always wait for tank to pull 1st and attack mob targeted by tank. Actually, I love it. It's not challenge, but a just proper way how to play in groups. Remind me of good old days of Wow - "If you gonna get aggro, you gonna loose 50 dkp, cause you didn't know what the F to do! ."
yep i totally agree with you 100% and i would tell them, in a nicely manner while that person is in their parents basement im making a living for my self and meeting ladies and taking them back to my place while they have fun disrespecting other people on a game.
I'm confused by part of what you're saying. Maybe it's on my end, but 4 months into the game? The only raids in game were MC and Onyxia in 1.1. You didn't mention Ony, so did you skip her raid entirely? Naxx (1.11 (Jun 2006)) and AQ (1.9 (Jan 2006)) weren't released until 2006. Did you skip over BWL that was released in 1.6 in July of 2005? Or ZG in Sept of that same year? You sound like you're talking out of your arse, for one. For two, your age doesn't matter when raiding.
I started raiding in Everquest way before wow was thought up when I was about that age, and I was never a douchebag about helping people learn the ropes. I was new and didn't know what I was doing, but I learned with help and no one yelled at me because most everyone was a newb to mmos then. Not knowing something IS an excuse. It's less of an excuse nowadays because you can google every encounter and know a decent amount before going in, but your claim has no merit, because it was a LOT harder to find info (let alone videos or guides) on the raids prior to running them. All yelling at someone does is discourage them from learning and it often turns them away from raiding (even though many could have become good, useful raiders) because of the connotations between raiding and elitism that they form. You are literally a part of the problem, sir.
I remember being a newb 14 years ago, and I wouldn't have had nearly as happy of a time in the last near-decade-and-a-half if those formative stages were filled with total D-bags hounding my every step without even attempting to help. Kudos to you for whatever you're proud of, but you're not a good model to follow in gaming as the entire gaming community is trying to distance itself from those kinds of attitudes while people like you pull us back.
The inability to lighten up doesn't make you hardcore.
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3
That's be design.. the mechanics get harder with the later dungeons (copperbell comes to mind with the slime boss). Haukke Manor also has some mechanics you have to jugle for last boss.
I like you
And to the "I was 14 and doing blah blah blah" I had a guildie who behaved this way once, as the main tank raid healer he always wanted to group with me so when he (He also played a pally but in EQ2) decided to roll a wizard he asked to group and as a lesson I would play "How many times can I break your armor". See cause Wizards are not a priority for the healer in a group in the game I am referring to. Eventually he asked why I kept letting him die and I responded with "Why do you keep trying to tank with a wizard?" He did get the point and I actually saw a change in his mentality after that. Even on his main he was far more kind to others. I guess the moral here is that its great to be good at what you do. Its greater to be a teacher so others can be great with you.
That and what goes around comes around eventually 
Have you ever played Wow? If you didn't, better. Those mentality there of selfproclaimed uber pro players "Hand of Vir'gins" are so toxic, making you want start WWIII. It doesn't matter if you new, if you really nice person, rocket or nuclear scientist, doctor or Nobel prize winner, if you're new to the game - you're n00b. By them, game is too complex too understand and you need bloody experince which is hard to get and require no life, 7 years perhaps.
I do not know if this was a slam on me or a praise I am confused lol
http://absoluteretribution.enjin.com/ Guild Website and Recruitment link
Really? Totally missed that announcement. Was that in a developer letter?
Yes, but you can also find it reposted in the beta forums. They are going to still time them so that groups can compete against one another for "fastest run", if you are into that. But no more 5 chest speed runs.
Also to Inigo, neither. I just mentioned it in relation to there being plenty of threads on that topic while this one is about how to explain things to new players who are struggling with the early content.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Just got off of AoW after I was getting cussed out for failing something in a group, what makes it better is the devs added a middle finger emoticon to really get the point across. Yeah it was my fault and it was my bad but the silly thing of being virtually screamed at on a computer game is just pointless. I was ready to toy with the idea of explaining my issue with the others in my group but I was about positive it would have caused more F-bombs.
I also feel youtube and game guide wiki sites help breed the problem too. Now youre supposed to hunt for these guides before going into something so youre not the weakest link. Like someone else said what happened to experiencing these moments for yourself?
Playing: TSW, D&D NW, Defiance (more the tv show than game >.> ) LotRO, DCUO