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Originally posted by wordiz Originally posted by h0tNstilettos To those saying ridiculous things like FFXIV is the same old same old, obviously have no experience with the genre. I have played almost every MMO under the sun, both sandbox, theme park, free to play, pay to play, etc, including major ones like WoW, and for a beta that has many features unavailable, FFXIV: ARR is already one the best MMOs I have ever played. I'm going to go through these ridiculous complaints people are making. Before I do, I should make it clear I am not speaking as a fangirl. I am speaking as someone that has a ton of experience in MMORPGs, and yes I made my account the other day just to post for this game. I have been using this site for years, but just never became a member. This is the first MMO that sparked me to do so. People also forget that in this beta many things are made easier for testing purposes so it is easier for players to progress for testing. On top of that, it is suppose to be easier for the first 15 levels or so. The game is designed to cater to both casual gamers and hardcore. On top of that people need to look at the game as a whole. It's presentation. Complaint #1: FFXIV has the same questing system that has been done time and time again, kill x, fetch this, etc. My response: FFXIV takes the MMO basics, plus features that have been done in other MMOs, BUT it does them better. The questing system in this game is very varied. There are multiple questing systems presenting different styles of questing. Aside from basic questing (an MMORPG staple, just like how people FPS games involve shooting others), you have levequests, guildhests, grand company quests, free company quests, and the excellent story quests which are more immersive and well made when compared to other MMO's story quests. Killing mobs and completing quests/objectives IS the MMORPG genre, just like shooting others in FPS/TPS games is why they are shooters. It's how the games do it that makes things a little refreshing, but the core mechanics are the same for the genre. Sure, you can argue WoW or other MMOs do it better because they make it easier to track/find quest markers and where you have to go. Some people don't like their hands to be held, while others do. I can't say one is better than the other. It's a minor problem. Complaint #2: Combat is too easy My response: It's beta, and most making that claim are not even beyond level 20 yet, and those that are are forgetting the beta is purposely made easier with no end game content available yet as of time of writing this. Questing doesn't even go beyond 30 yet. Yoshida already said there will be very hardcore content in the game. People are jumping to conclusions about stuff they have never tried yet, and easier beta difficulty in general compared to release. Complaint #3: Game should be free to play. My response: If you're old enough to have a job and not disabled, you have bigger things to worry about than playing this. If you're disabled, you can get government assistance to pay for your bills, plus a little extra each month to spend on leisure/entertainment. I can't speak for other countries as I'm unsure of how many countries have such an option. Complaint #4: FFXIV does nothing revolutionary My response: This is where you are wrong. FFXIV: ARR takes familiar MMO features and does them better, plus adding features post-release that are new to the MMORPG genre, like the Gold Saucer like mini-game attraction park, which is just one more thing to keep you entertained if you're tired of questing, fighting mobs, and crafting. There will be in-depth player housing. There's so many aspects to the housing they are implementing that there's too much to list as this post isn't about that. Let's just say it's your typical tacked on housing of other MMOs. It will have more purpose in ARR with ability bonuses, plus neighborhoods, building house from ground up, chocobo stall for raising and breeding your chocobos, and being able to buy or sale houses. They are revolutionizing player housing in this game. Let's look at crafting, another MMO feature that has been done time and time again. FFXIV's crafting system actually makes me want to craft as compared to other MMOs. They even have their own classes. They have revolutionized crafting with this game. Complaint #5: The graphics are horrible for PS3. My response: If you are judging a game based on graphics rather than gameplay, you really shouldn't be playing games. The graphics aren't going to affect my gameplay, and they aren't terrible graphics anyways. There are more complaints, but I am covering the main ones. Now I am going to point out some key things that make this MMORPG a very high quality MMO. Many things have been done in past MMOs, but not as well or fun, while some is new. Take CoD Modern Warfare 3 for example, it had the same stuff that has been done in other FPS game, and that's because that is what makes it a FPS, BUT it did them better, or with new ideas or approach to similar concepts. It's the same with ARR. The minion system is the only thing that is not done better or different than past MMOs. #1 The armory class-switching system #2 Companions and barding. #3 Chocobo breeding and raising #4 Duty finder #5 The mini-game attraction park type area similar to the Gold Saucer from FFVII #6 Superior crafting, housing, and breeding/raising (if what I read about housing and breeding/raising is true). #7 Limit breaks #8 Plenty of quest system variations (I'm not saying no other MMO had various quest systems, but fewer do than those those that don't. The norm does not include a plethora of quest systems.) #9 The way they ease you into the game is done at a perfect pace, without being too confusing, and without piling on too much text or info at once. and more . . . Ultimately, ARR is easily one of the best MMOs out there even before the other features are made available, AND still in beta with limits. That's saying a lot. Fast forward this game years forward so it has had as much time to grow as games like WoW, and it's easy to realize this is going to be an MMO juggernaut. If I had to bet on any MMO being the next big MMO on the success level of WoW, this is one I would bet on. Sadly, I believe the original release of FFXIV will prevent this from happening due to people refusing to try this as a result, but going by quality it is superb. Plus the developers are very active in their relationship with the players and making this game as good as they can based on the feedback. Sure, they can't do everything requested, but they have listened and done a lot compared to most developers. This is a good sign for the future.
You addressed none of the issues I had with the game. And things being said like the highlighted example above is why it's going to be funny watching the train derail, not because I want the game to fail. I came into beta with high hopes. I grew up with FF and other Square classics. Things just seem to not be the same with that Enix tacked on at the end. Just look at FFXVI. I died a little inside.
Look, you obviously misread my text. That, or you are essentially saying that WoW is a higher quality game, which is ludicrous. You also failed to read the fast forward part so the game can then be on equal ground with WoW for 'amount' of content. I also never saw what your issues were as my post was not even replying to you solely. I was speaking to complainers in general that say ARR is the same and nothing new. The only thing that could keep ARR back is FFXIV's original disastrous release, and people that want to go in hating it as a result and immediately judge it as a clone of a past MMO. So no I am not claiming it will be a WoW killer, even though tons of WoW players playing the beta have already decided to convert to ARR upon release. It would still take a miracle due to the FFXIV stigma, but the quality is what I'm speaking on.
Originally posted by SuperXero89 It's easy to find tons of highly stylized, carefully planned screenshots taken by SquareEnix themselves, but it's more rare to find screens from the average player's perspective.
Here's some shots I took as an "average player", which I think look quite nice and capture ARR's beauty wonderfully... Mileage may vary, of course...
A ride past Limsa Lominsa at sunset...
Perched upon my Chocobo with some lake Ruins (unearthed during the Calamity) behind me.
Looking up at a massive fragment of Dalamud towering into the Eorzean night sky, in a ravaged corner of the Twelveswood.
Combing the beach with my companion Chocobo, with Costa del Sol peeking out behind a large cliff.
Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by Hyanmen Originally posted by ikarrian Correct me if i'm wrong, But isnt Rift released after 2005? And as i can remember, you can change ur classes.
You can level all the classes on the same character to the cap and change to any of them by a press of a single button? That's the first time I've heard you can do that in Rift.
Yeah, it's not the same, but it is similar. In Rift there are 4 main classes with sub-roles. You can build and configure those sub-roles and switch them (and your gear) with a single hotbar button (created through the macro system).
Some players have data-mined recently added files and found that there are 4 new roles being added which will let every class function in every role. Each class performs the role differently and some classes have greater diversity in how they can build their roles.
One of the main differences is you only level your class. All roles are leveled with your class.
I don't know if I'd call that similar to ARR's system, so much as I'd call it an expanded version of WoW's Spec trees.
Just as a 'Destro' Warlock and a Demonologist Warlock in WoW are still Warlocks, just with different playstyles, a Warrior in Rift is still a Warrior, regardless of what souls they equip. You can never switch from Priest to Warrior to Scout to Mage. You have to create an alt to do that.
ARR allows you to play literally any class or job in the game on the same character, in essence rendering the need for alts moot.
That said, I really enjoyed Rift's system when I played it. Very nice evolution of the Class/Spec system.
Originally posted by Draemos Originally posted by Xatsh
The funny part is for the majority of the mmo players tab target > action mmo. And you cannot disagree with that because far far more people are playing the tab target games then the new action mmos. Honestly the action mmos seem to be doing fairly poorly atm.
Speaking of poor logic...
Who said anything about WoW... other than you?
He's referring to the number of people preferring Tab targeting over Action-based across all MMOs... not just WoW.
Even with its B2P revenue model and Action-based combat, GW2 failed to make much of a dent on the Tab-target MMO market. And GW2 is the game that was supposed to take the genre by storm and change the way people played MMOs forever more (according to its PR and fans anyway) - largely because of its action-based combat. Yet that didn't happen.
People either tried it out, found it wasn't "all that" and went back to their Tab-target MMOs... or simply weren't drawn to it in the first place.
Well, since combat plays a large role in WoW and just about every MMO out there, it would be logical to assume people would not play the game if they hated tab targeting / auto attack when there are several alternatives out there. Perhaps the problem we're seeing right now is that some gamers are too focused on combat and that is why we've seen such a rush of action games, who as a group, are not nearly as popular as the current group of tab targeted MMOs.
I have given this a lot of thought:
Some backstory - I was an EQ player when FFXI came out - I was interested, but couldn't get any of my buddies to try it with me, so I kept on playing EQ with them. I don't regret staying with EQ, but I do regret not trying FFXI from the beginning. I finally tried out FFXI several years later (Spring 2010) - the game was good, but so far advanced I literally felt like I had just jumped into the ocean feet first and didn't know which direction the shore was. The community was great, I liked the gameplay, but as soon as you got past the popular level sync areas (Dunes) - there was more or less a black hole where the only choice was to continue to level sync in newbie content for groups until you got high enough level to run around and do the "endgame" content. I felt I missed the boat for FFXI, and that part I do regret.
That being said, I didn't want to miss it with FFXIV either. I love the class system in FFXI, and FFXIV looked to be improving on that, and expanding it greatly. I was very excited, and pre-ordered very early on.
I wasn't able to get into any of the closed betas, but did run around a bit in Open Beta - and was on from release and for about 4 months after release. At first I was in a kind of denial - it has to get better, this is just the typical post-launch jitters, new content is just around the corner. I had nearly every class leveled to around L20 - I was a very horizontal player. And maybe it did get better in later levels, or after Yoshi really started to juggle things, but at that stage I realized I was more or less deluding myself: this wasn't a Final Fantasy game, it was a fairly poor game that happened to be named Final Fantasy, and it wasn't terribly fun. I gave it a good chance, and then moved on. I hear Yoshi really started to turn the ship around, but I wasn't willing to come back and see after they had started subscriptions back up, not at least without some sort of trial since I had been burned so badly the first go around.
I bought into the hype. I tried to convince myself early on that the game was great, but it just wasn't fun for me. I really wanted an updated version of FFXI - and I think a lot of people were expecting that, but Tanaka was trying to present something different - I credit him for that much, but it didn't work.
So here comes ARR Beta 3. Being an original purchaser, I got my beta code as soon as Beta 3 started, and I updated my client - seeing this as the "free trial" that I didn't get when Yoshi started to really shake things up.
So far, in the Beta, I've got 3 battle classes through to 15, and one class nearly to 20. I've run through the 3 introductory dungeons, and not run the story line much past that (partially because progress may get wiped, and I don't want to burn myself out on it).
The game is totally different. The story ties into 1.0, but past that, I can't even recognize the game from it's 1.0 roots (which is a good thing). I can see a lot of elements from FFXI, but I wouldn't go so far to say as it's just FFXI wrapped up with HD graphics; ARR is it's own game, and will stand on it's own merits. It will have the albatross of 1.0 to carry, and that legacy it can never escape, but it does a very good job of standing on it's own two feet and pushing forward in it's own direction.
I don't want to say that it's "fixed" or that it's a "WoW-killer" or anything like that. I found the Beta to be fun - not perfect by any means, but better than 1.0 at any rate. I plan on subscribing up front to see how it goes. This time I go in with a healthy skepticism. I ~want~ to like this game, and I realize that, so I need to temper by excitement and not go in and realize I only liked it because I wanted to (which is exactly what happened with 1.0), and not because I actually do like it.
Originally posted by azzamasin Originally posted by Vorthanion I'm tired of narrow path driven MMORPGs. I want an open, exploration driven MMO and it looks like I'll have to wait for either Wildstar or EverQuest Next to get it, because it doesn't even remotely exist in FFXIV.
Nope its as linear as a game can get.
Wildstar has giant arrows showing you which way to go for every quest and mission. And big red circles and cones on the ground for every single kind of attack not just AoEs
I have certainly spent quite a lot of time beta testing Final Fantasy: ARR and although I have been impressed by quite a few features, it hasn't blown me away.
I will say that I was surprisingly impressed by the combat and how alive it feels. I will be seriously put off by most linear themepark type MMO's if the animations and combat are lacking, it is the bread and butter of a tab-targeting system.
Overall good MMO, especially in its beta stages, but not amazing. I will be pleased to play it when released though.
Originally posted by tkreep Originally posted by azzamasin Originally posted by Vorthanion I'm tired of narrow path driven MMORPGs. I want an open, exploration driven MMO and it looks like I'll have to wait for either Wildstar or EverQuest Next to get it, because it doesn't even remotely exist in FFXIV.
I don't play MMOs for the combat, but rather for the exploration and while Wildstar has its issues, it does offer actual exploration as a path of progression and it does not point you in a direction with arrows from what I've seen. To be honest, I don't see the issue with asking the quest giver for directions. Maybe, for you guys, it's a straight male thing, just like in real life. After all, if he wants me to go out and kill a bunch of pests, it would be logical for the mission giver to tell you where they are. I don't hire someone to help me with a problem and not give them my address. It would be fitting to do that with an actual mystery quest, where information is limited, but even then, you have clues to work with.
As far as the red circle thing is concerned, most people on this board already know how I feel about action style combat and the inherent mechanics that go with it. I can overlook it though if the rest of the game gets just as much focus and attention by the developer.