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Demise of the MMO Communities

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    I lean on the game design for the cause. People first and foremost play a game according to the rules laid out and also take the path of least resistance. A player can solo game content in most MMOs. Can they group or socialize at the same time? Sure, but it takes more time and effort since a lot of the progression is designed for solo play.

     

    If "not social" is path of least resistance, then people don't like socialization enough to warrant its importance in a MMO.

    I don't see anyone skipping out combat. "least resistance" is just another way of saying what people prefers.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    It may not be that people don't want to socialize, it's that the game design makes it a burden to do so. It may also be that the larger majority like the more anti-social casual games, which I find highly amusing. The reality is that interaction with a games community can raise the likelihood that a player will stay. I look forward to the future MMOs that embrace making social interaction more important.
  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Aelious I lean on the game design for the cause. People first and foremost play a game according to the rules laid out and also take the path of least resistance. A player can solo game content in most MMOs. Can they group or socialize at the same time? Sure, but it takes more time and effort since a lot of the progression is designed for solo play.
    If "not social" is path of least resistance, then people don't like socialization enough to warrant its importance in a MMO.

    I don't see anyone skipping out combat. "least resistance" is just another way of saying what people prefers.



    Wrong. It isn't that socialization is unimportant. It is that it involves risk. You are taking a risk any time you say "hey how's it going" to a stranger. They might be rude, they might ignore you. If a game doesn't require cooperation, it makes it that much easier to not take that risk.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Wighty

    You can thank all the "social" and "Convenience" elements of games like Auction houses, Group finders, automatic teleports to queues...

     

    Bottom line is if community is ever going to come back it starts with the players wanting to put all the convenience aside and actually seek out people to interact with and develop friendships and trust with. This was a key part of classic MMO's which have now been replaced with a bunch of drones that have no interest in exploration or interaction.. they just want to blast through content "to win" then move on to the next game and bitch that the former game "had no content"

    Yeh, i thank those features everyday. Finally i can actually play a game, then do chores in a world.

    I play games for fun, not to "develop freindship and trust". I have enough of that in RL. You are right, i have no interests in socializing in a MMO.

    And why do i play MMOs? To finish the fun content, and move on, of course.

    Lol, that's like saying that I shouldn't want cooperation on a basketball team because I have a chore at work.

     

    The problem is that MMORPG's without design around community are pointless.  Why play with thousands if you don't need to interact?  Just as well make a single player game.  

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Canton, OHPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted
    Originally posted
    Originally posted

    You can thank all the "social" and "Convenience" elements of games like Auction houses, Group finders, automatic teleports to queues...

     

    Bottom line is if community is ever going to come back it starts with the players wanting to put all the convenience aside and actually seek out people to interact with and develop friendships and trust with. This was a key part of classic MMO's which have now been replaced with a bunch of drones that have no interest in exploration or interaction.. they just want to blast through content "to win" then move on to the next game and bitch that the former game "had no content"

    Yeh, i thank those features everyday. Finally i can actually play a game, then do chores in a world.

    I play games for fun, not to "develop freindship and trust". I have enough of that in RL. You are right, i have no interests in socializing in a MMO.

    And why do i play MMOs? To finish the fun content, and move on, of course.

    Lol, that's like saying that I shouldn't want cooperation on a basketball team because I have a chore at work.

     

    The problem is that MMORPG's without design around community are pointless.  Why play with thousands if you don't need to interact?  Just as well make a single player game.  

    That's what he likes and strives in thousands of posts to drive home that MMORPG's should be. For HIS fun. Who cares about others.

     

    When he does nothing but post the same drivel blatantly stating he doesn't play MMORPG's for social interaction, and  enters nearly every post where people discuss options he doesn't like when he simply doesn't have to post at all if it isn't a topic that interests him beyond to argue and troll... IDK why the forum mods don't warn him or ban him...unless he pays them to freely do so because he works for some gaming company (Guessing blizzard since he nuzzles D3's bag in most posts for examples...FOR MMORPG's lol) Awaiting my ban now for daring to confront one of their many apparent forum prodigies and monetary contributors...as seems to happen to anyone who does so. Didn't name names...but stating an obvious pattern of habit.

    Just doesn't get that this is what sets  MMORPG's apart from any other form of gaming. Social interaction is what made them great. I played EQ for 5 years. Sure, it had a lot of content...but combat was rather bland, and there were many things that could of been done better. But what kept me there 5 years was the community above all else. Still friends with many people I played with in that game and keep in contact.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    It may not be that people don't want to socialize, it's that the game design makes it a burden to do so. It may also be that the larger majority like the more anti-social casual games, which I find highly amusing. The reality is that interaction with a games community can raise the likelihood that a player will stay. I look forward to the future MMOs that embrace making social interaction more important.

    Does game design make "combat" a burden too? I don't see anyone avoiding combat because it takes a lot time to fight a boss.

    And people are avoiding socialization if they can. Isn't that pretty good evidence that people don't want to socialize?

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

     

    Just doesn't get that this is what MMORPG's apart from any other form of gaming. Social interaction is what made them great. I played EQ for 5 years. Sure, it had a lot of content...but combat was rather bland, and there were many things that could of been done better. But what kept me there 5 years was the community above all else. Still friends with many people I played with in that game and keep in contact.

    If so, why WOW is so much more enjoyable for so many than EQ when it needs less social interactions?

    The MMO market expands when social interaction is marginized. So how is social interactions the key thing to make it great?

    You only mean that you like it, and you dislike opinions different from your own.

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Canton, OHPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

     

    Just doesn't get that this is what MMORPG's apart from any other form of gaming. Social interaction is what made them great. I played EQ for 5 years. Sure, it had a lot of content...but combat was rather bland, and there were many things that could of been done better. But what kept me there 5 years was the community above all else. Still friends with many people I played with in that game and keep in contact.

    If so, why WOW is so much more enjoyable for so many than EQ when it needs less social interactions?

    The MMO market expands when social interaction is marginized. So how is social interactions the key thing to make it great?

    You only mean that you like it, and you dislike opinions different from your own.

    As usual try to twist it around and fail.

     

    WoW was only so popular because of their mass marketing and pulling in tons of NON-MMORPG players because it was built to do so.

    I never said I don't like that type of stuff...just not in MMORPG's. When I don't want social interaction, I play console games, or other genres of games that interest me, but don't require social interaction. And also don't require me to advocate to turn them so because I am selfish. This is why their are different genres.

     

    Maybe someday you can get it through your extremely thick skull that MMORPG's are different from other forms of gaming for a reason, and if you don't like them for that reason..maybe you should be playing other games as I do.

     

    You have stated REPEATEDLY you don't like social interaction, like fast paced, high reward games, and games that pretty much lead you along and keep it fast fun. Should be a clue.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    I never said I don't like that type of stuff...just not in MMORPG's. When I don't want social interaction, I play console games, or other genres of games that interest me, but don't require social interaction. And also don't require me to advocate to turn them so because I am selfish. This is why their are different genres.

     

     

    That is such a narrow minded view.

    Why would i limit my enjoyment of MMO to social interaction? If a MMO has good instance missions, i will play it like a SP game. Is there a reason why i should not do so if that is fun to me?

    In fact, i don't see why I should treat MMO any different from other games. If it is fun in some parts, i will play it and ignore the parts i don't like.

    I don't advocate turning MMOs into anything. They are already like that. If devs want my time by catering to my taste, is there a reason i should refuse free fun? If they were not doing so, you think i would be here?

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Canton, OHPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    I never said I don't like that type of stuff...just not in MMORPG's. When I don't want social interaction, I play console games, or other genres of games that interest me, but don't require social interaction. And also don't require me to advocate to turn them so because I am selfish. This is why their are different genres.

     

     

    That is such a narrow minded view.

    Why would i limit my enjoyment of MMO to social interaction? If a MMO has good instance missions, i will play it like a SP game. Is there a reason why i should not do so if that is fun to me?

    In fact, i don't see why I should treat MMO any different from other games. If it is fun in some parts, i will play it and ignore the parts i don't like.

    I don't advocate turning MMOs into anything. They are already like that. If devs want my time by catering to my taste, is there a reason i should refuse free fun? If they were not doing so, you think i would be here?

    WHOoooosh! Over your head and beyond your comprehension as usual.

    Narrow minded is trying to turn EVERY game of EVERY genre into the same type of game...as you constantly do, and your post history shows that.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    There are no communities in MMOs.
  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon

    Everything is mass market fast food when it comes to the larger companies these days.

    Asheron's Call, SWG, DAOC - I remember having very active and fun communities in all of these games.

    Now so many just jump from game to game insanely fast. Nothing holds peoples attention long enough.

    I honestly have more faith in some Kickstarter MMOs vs the other stuff coming down the pipe.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,451Member Uncommon

    Not 10 years,exactly the same time Wow arrived because solo question does not a single thing to promote community.It is like designing a game to be a single player game then add internet and call it a mmo.EQ2 is the same thing solo questing then if want a dungeon run you ask guildies.

    When you play a grouped game you group 90% of the time,get to know people a lot better and look forward to the next day of grouping.The problem is when a game tries to do everything ,it still leans everyone towards the solo aspect.So you end up with 99% the players soloing,it makes it really tough to start a group,ends up maybe a duo or trio,because no matter what your still doing that same solo content.Most games will have a couple big quests where people have to group but that is like 2-3 minutes then the people disband to soloing again.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Aelious
    It may not be that people don't want to socialize, it's that the game design makes it a burden to do so. It may also be that the larger majority like the more anti-social casual games, which I find highly amusing. The reality is that interaction with a games community can raise the likelihood that a player will stay. I look forward to the future MMOs that embrace making social interaction more important.

    Does game design make "combat" a burden too? I don't see anyone avoiding combat because it takes a lot time to fight a boss.

    And people are avoiding socialization if they can. Isn't that pretty good evidence that people don't want to socialize?

     

     

    To the first point, combat is the only way to progress 99% of the time.  Whether it is a burden would make no difference in most MMOs since they are combat based.  A more comparible scenerio would be if each player had a sequence of three moves that allowed them to kill any mob.  No matter how fun the combat would be using the other 20 abilities... most would opt for the three button solution if the end goal was gaining levels.

     

    The second point relates to the first, if an MMO's gameplay makes it easier to be anti-social we really don't know how many prefer it.  We only know they want to progress asap... another design flaw IMO regardless of what players may want.  More popular =/= better and many did not play the games that did focus on community as a comparison.

     

    I was answering the OP's question because I think there is a direct connection between a player's conenction to the gameworld and how long they stay.  The staying longer part is important to companies so it's no surprise that newer titles are at least saying the right things.  We'll see if they actually deliver and if more than a small minority prefer a larger social aspect.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    That's what he likes and strives in thousands of posts to drive home that MMORPG's should be. For HIS fun. Who cares about others.

    You apparently don't, you want games to cater to you, regardless of what the overwhelming majority of players want.  Luckily, that's not how the market works.  The people who have the biggest numbers and the most money win.

    That's not your side.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

     

    Just doesn't get that this is what MMORPG's apart from any other form of gaming. Social interaction is what made them great. I played EQ for 5 years. Sure, it had a lot of content...but combat was rather bland, and there were many things that could of been done better. But what kept me there 5 years was the community above all else. Still friends with many people I played with in that game and keep in contact.

    If so, why WOW is so much more enjoyable for so many than EQ when it needs less social interactions?

    The MMO market expands when social interaction is marginized. So how is social interactions the key thing to make it great?

    You only mean that you like it, and you dislike opinions different from your own.

    As usual try to twist it around and fail.

     

    WoW was only so popular because of their mass marketing and pulling in tons of NON-MMORPG players because it was built to do so.

    I never said I don't like that type of stuff...just not in MMORPG's. When I don't want social interaction, I play console games, or other genres of games that interest me, but don't require social interaction. And also don't require me to advocate to turn them so because I am selfish. This is why their are different genres.

     

    Maybe someday you can get it through your extremely thick skull that MMORPG's are different from other forms of gaming for a reason, and if you don't like them for that reason..maybe you should be playing other games as I do.

     

    You have stated REPEATEDLY you don't like social interaction, like fast paced, high reward games, and games that pretty much lead you along and keep it fast fun. Should be a clue.

     

     

    Thats why I hardly read his posts, and rarely even try to debate with him, his mind is set and hes right and we are wrong in his mind.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Vineland, NJPosts: 869Member

    Why are the communities in small, rural areas are so close nit, friendly while the communities in larger cities such as New York, Detroit so dysfunctional and unfriendly?

     

     

    image

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Canton, OHPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    That's what he likes and strives in thousands of posts to drive home that MMORPG's should be. For HIS fun. Who cares about others.

    You apparently don't, you want games to cater to you, regardless of what the overwhelming majority of players want.  Luckily, that's not how the market works.  The people who have the biggest numbers and the most money win.

    That's not your side.

    And here's one of the others right on queue.

    Once again for the thick skulled crew....I never said I didn't like those types of games, just not when it comes to MMORPG's. Please read before selecting a particular portion of a post that fits your needs.

    When I want quick fun that rewards me every 10 seconds, I play console games, or some other PC based game other than MMORPG's.

    When I want to interact with others, group up and adventure across vast landscapes, and develop a character to my play style and build it's reputation through my actions within that world, I play MMORPG's...or use to anyways until they became PC based console games.

    I'm not saying I want them to cater to ME. Simply stating what they use to be, what I'd like to see again (Which can be done in a way that takes the good from the old and incorporates it into the new) in at least one MMORPG. If anyone here sounds selfish and wanting catered to it's "The crew"...as I call it.

    Why should you all care if there are those of us that want to discuss the possibility of an old school themed MMORPG coming around again? Why do you feel the need to enter every one of  those types of threads and interject your "expert knowledge"? Just don't enter the thread or respond...it's that simple bud. You don't see me in WoW threads or any other modern based thread I don't care for arguing with those people...do the same will ya.

    Don't give me the "majority" and "money" BS. Yes, although I am fully aware that is a factor in today's greed induced world, a MMORPG, or any game for that matter can be produced that is outside the norm and masses liking that can pull profit and survive (I.E. EvE Online, EQ..That is STILL going and turning profit). Not every MMORPG has to have a ridiculous budget to succeed.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by MMORPGRIP

    That's what he likes and strives in thousands of posts to drive home that MMORPG's should be. For HIS fun. Who cares about others.

    You apparently don't, you want games to cater to you, regardless of what the overwhelming majority of players want.  Luckily, that's not how the market works.  The people who have the biggest numbers and the most money win.

    That's not your side.

    And here's one of the others right on queue.

    Once again for the thick skulled crew....I never said I didn't like those types of games, just not when it comes to MMORPG's. Please read before selecting a particular portion of a post that fits your needs.

    When I want quick fun that rewards me every 10 seconds, I play console games, or some other PC based game other than MMORPG's.

    When I want to interact with others, group up and adventure across vast landscapes, and develop a character to my play style and build it's reputation through my actions within that world, I play MMORPG's...or use to anyways until they became PC based console games.

    I'm not saying I want them to cater to ME. Simply stating what they use to be, what I'd like to see again (Which can be done in a way that takes the good from the old and incorporates it into the new) in at least one MMORPG. If anyone here sounds selfish and wanting catered to it's "The crew"...as I call it.

    Why should you all care if there are those of us that want to discuss the possibility of an old school themed MMORPG coming around again? Why do you feel the need to enter every one of these those types of threads and interject your "expert knowledge"? Just don't enter the thread or respond...it's that simple bud. You don't see me in WoW threads or any other modern based thread I don't care for arguing with those people...do the same will ya.

    Don't give me the "majority" and "money" BS. Yes, although I am fully aware that is a factor in today's greed induced world, a MMORPG, or any game for that matter can be produced that is outside the norm and masses liking that can pull profit and survive (I.E. EvE Online, EQ..That is STILL going and turning profit). Not every MMORPG has to have a ridiculous budget to succeed.

    Funny thing is most of the casual players don't even support the genre with money.  They get a free ride off the backs of cash shop junkies who prop up these should be failed games.  

     

    Evidence of that causal MMORPG's fail is that they're surviving on a gimmick.  Eventually all these games will just be instanced single player games with a 4-5 mass instanced lobbies with most players sitting around in rags and half dead looking horses with ads popping every 5 seconds promoting sparkly ponies and all the cool looking stuff not being obtainable by playing.

     

  • BrueskieBrueskie London, KYPosts: 42Member Uncommon
    Community was the biggest enjoyment I gleaned from MMOs. That's what I no longer play MMOs.
  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by emistz

     

    I am not really sure what benefit you get from an MMO without group play, except of course I guess if it was a single player game you couldn't brag to others about your latest piece of epeen gear.

     

    Really? I guess you didn't actually play many of the older games. In UO for instance you could solo forever and never need anyone. Ever. Yet it was more fun because of other people. Other people add options and many variables. I was never forced to group. Yet I found in UO I grouped more than any other game. Here are some reasons to want to play an MMO, but not for the sole reason of grouping.

    -helping random people (in some games i'd provide that heal, or few attacks someone needed to survive)

    -getting killed or killing others (competition)

    -trading

    -the world looks and feels alive with others walking around and doing actual stuff (rather than npcs being scripted)

    -depending on the game the very look of the world is developed by its community (housing for instance)

    -social hubs (brit bank anyone?)

    In games that force grouping you don't really get the chance to stand out. Everyone ends up having to fit a specific role that thousands upon thousands have already done before you. Back in the day of UO, EQ and even DAOC people could actually become well known in their communities. In UO maybe you were that guy who was known for pking the graveyard, or the guy who sold his smithy products super cheap. In EQ's early days maybe you were that awesome guy helping people to travel, or the one who'd show up at a camp to save everyone when they were overwhelmed. In todays games, you group up, go in a dungeon, find the pattern to beating the boss, then leave. You make no social bonds. In your next group all you hope for is someone to fill a specific role so you can defeat a boss with a specific pattern.

    I guess people really do dislike virtual game worlds now.... :(

     

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    Time.

     

    It takes time for communities to form. In RL, the concept of "community" simply requires a group of people to be together for a while. They start recognizing each other by sight, or by the sound of their voices. The members of any community interact, be it active or passively. Just seeing the same people around in the same place every day causes a community to form. In small towns that is more likely to happen than in big cities.

     

    Ten years ago you created your character on a specific server. When you logged-in, you saw everyone else that was in that particular area of the game world. Levelling was much slower than today, which meant you saw the same characters many, many times on your way to level cap. You saw the max-level people every time you went to the main city or trading hub. If you wanted to group, the only options were people from your server.

     

    Let's face it, very few people strike up a conversation with a complete stranger at a bus stop. But if they've met that same stranger at that same bus stop every day for a month, then it would not be unusual for a few words to be exchanged.

     

    Nowadays, game design has evolved to allow "phasing", mega-servers, cross-server dungeon queues, etc.

    Phasing:

    You may be in the "main city" at the big auction house, but that part of the game world is "phased", so multiple instances of it exist simultaneously. The people you saw yesterday standing at the auctioneer, may be standing there again today, but they are spread over 15 different duplicates of reality. You could play every day for a week and never again see the player you saw on day 1, even though he/she is playing in the same "place in the world" as you are.

     

    Leveling speed:

    Leveling speed in modern MMO's is orders of magnitude higher than in the "old" games. You simply don't spend much time on the journey, and the amount of shared experiences with the same group of players is much more limited. It's very easy to lose sight of people that started on the same day as you did, because if they play 3 hours longer than you do, they've advanced to the next zone and you'll most likely never see them again. Because by the time you've reached level-cap, they're quite possible at L15 in a different game already.

     

    Game design:

    Ten years ago, MMO's often simulated real worlds, and many of the game play elements modeled real world activities. You went to a dock to catch a boat to another continent. You went to spaceport to catch a shuttle to another planet. There was traveling time, and often "waiting time". After a big fight, you had to sit down to rest and recover ! All these "downtimes" were opportunities for chatting. Those downtimes have all been removed from modern games.

    Modern MMO design almost regards it as a SIN to require a player to do anything but non-stop action, rewards and thrills. Of course, human beings grow used-to certain levels of stimulation, so each new game has to improve on the previous ones by delivering faster action with bigger lightshows and greater rewards...

     

  • MMORPGRIPMMORPGRIP Canton, OHPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
     

    Funny thing is most of the casual players don't even support the genre with money.  They get a free ride off the backs of cash shop junkies who prop up these should be failed games.  

     

    Evidence of that causal MMORPG's fail is that they're surviving on a gimmick.  Eventually all these games will just be instanced single player games with a 4-5 mass instanced lobbies with most players sitting around in rags and half dead looking horses with ads popping every 5 seconds promoting sparkly ponies and all the cool looking stuff not being obtainable by playing.

     

    Exactly...and sadly...it's already started in many MMORPG's.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xAPOCx

    Why are the communities in small, rural areas are so close nit, friendly while the communities in larger cities such as New York, Detroit so dysfunctional and unfriendly?

     

    This x1000

     

    I think as time goes on and titles gravitate to community tools (e.g. reasons to really socialize) you'll see a rise in participation by those that haven't had it before.

  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member
    Originally posted by emistz

    Is it just me or has there been a consistent decline in the community feel in MMOs since about 10 years ago?Every time I log into pretty much any MMO I can see less and less community work and more and more individual people doing their own thing.  Basically people soloing the game, along with a thousand other people who are also soloing the game in the same server. I am not really sure what benefit you get from an MMO without group play, except of course I guess if it was a single player game you couldn't brag to others about your latest piece of epeen gear.I remember the days when people would group just for the fun of doing things together.  These days unless there is a specific incentive to do so most people keep to themselves.What do you think has brought this about?  A change in game culture? A change in culture as a whole where we have become more and more antisocial as a society? Or something else?

     



    when you make game so easy to do not require players that you work together any longer or you have in game items that can link you to dungeons by clicking a few buddies choir no check for talking to other players of course the communities will be lost with directions











    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

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