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I've this argument for a long time now. "MMOs are too easy!" "WoW is easy mode". I understand why they say this. It's because the content you have access to when you first log in as a level one is incredibly easy. The entire leveling process is incredibly easy. Even the early endgame; dailies, heroics, scenarios, LFR, etc, are all incredibly easy. Now start Normal mode raids. Woah! Those are harder than anyhing you can find in Vanilla WoW short of maybe a couple bosses in Naxx. Ok, but it's doable. Now start Heroic Raids. WoW!!! Those are much harder than anything in Vanilla WoW, hands down! Try Brawlers guild. There are some seriously challenging fights in there. For real! Try challenge mode dungeons. They are ridiculously punishing. No, no. You cannot claim it is too easy unless you have tried the difficult content; Heroic Raids, Challenge Modes, Brawlers Guild (Past rank 7), and PvP has always been as challenging as the apponant makes it.
WoW is not easymode. You merely have to actually do the challenging content. I can't speak for other MMOs, but that is the case for WoW.
And why should the leveling content be this amazingly well-crafted journey? If it takes me even a month to get to max level (which it won't in ay modern MMO), and I play for the next year, I spend 11 of those 12 months at max level. Why should they not put the most care into the endgame? Their is a long list of failed MMOs who neglected endgame content. By all means, make the same mistake. To your own peril.
Originally posted by deamian Time is valuable, lately everything is centered around that concept. I want another game like Everquest that steals away my entire evening to get progress, not a game that I progress through the whole game in one evening.
No thx, its waste of time to play a game that looks like it was made in stone age, and never make any proggress due to full loot mechanic
(Retired)- Anarchy Online/Ultima Online/DAoC/Horizonsz/EQ2/SWG/AC1&2/L2/SoR/WoW/TMO/Requiem/Atlantica Online/Manibogi/Rift+(SL)/Lol/Hon/SWTOR/Wakfu/Champions Online/GW/Lotr/CO/TcoS/Tabula Rasa/Meridian 59/Vanguard/Shadowbane/Fury/SotW/Dreamlords/HGL/RoM/DDO/FFXI/Aoc/Eve/Warhammer Online/Gw2/TSW/Tera/Defiance/STO/AoW/DE/Firefall/Darkfall/Neverwinter/PS2/ESO/FF14/Archeage/Gw2
My first exposure to MMO's was Anarchy Online. They took a while before they started to make it quicker and easier to level and they had no quest line to follow.
I absolutely loved the world I found myself in. Loved the rivalry between Clan and Omni. Loved having to explore and sometimes enter an area that I was nowhere near strong enough to survive.
I remember the thrill as I figured something out, or discovered a new area and how other players would let you discover these things, without blabbing in a global chat. Anyone asking would only be helped via a tell.
Once things to ease leveling (DOJA CHIPS, Daily missions) and a few other features, what some referred to as dumbing the game down, I moved in to other mmo's searching for what I had lost.
Despite trying many, many other games, none have come close to captivating me as much.
I am holding hope that World of Darkness will be it. There are still some mmorpgs I play and enjoy, but one day I am sure I will find what is missing.
The game isnt easier, most games are just so repetative. The buttonmashing just isnt enough these days, how about actually making quests tricky, making people read the q´s for once?
Originally posted by blohm86 The game isnt easier, most games are just so repetative. The buttonmashing just isnt enough these days, how about actually making quests tricky, making people read the q´s for once?
Uhm, yes they are. I died a lot more before maxing out a character in the old days and the only possible reasons for that is either am I a lot better now or the games are easier... So I tried out some pre 2000 single player games to test the theory, and I play in fact worse now. Heck, played some C-64 games I remember as easy and died more than I like to talk about.
Around the year 2000 the gaming community grow from people with special interests in computers to the average Joe and the games became a lot easier with that.
As an example, look on the Diablo IP. Each game have been a lot easier than the first.
Nowadays in MMOs the only times I die before maxing out is either when I get distracting by something IRL or when I do something suicidal.
I been playing computer games since 1984 and MMOs since 1996, they are easier now.
Originally posted by Xarko Not necessarily easy, but they became SIMPLE.
It makes perfectly sense and I agree.
MMO's today have become linear objective style multiplayer action games.
There is no mental challenge
Originally posted by DMKano MMOs were always easy, today they just don't require lifetime commitments to get anything done. We are living in an accelerated age, 40 hours to gain 1 level by grinding 100s of the same mob in one spot - ain't nobody got time for that! I am looking for more fun and entertaining experience that takes less time. I don't want to spend 40+ hours a week in front of my PC playing some MMORPG that belongs in the late 1990s, I still play EQ1 and I played it since launch. EQ1 at launch was horrendously slow paced as far as XP, we just didn't know any different. I don't want to play a game like that again. So if hard=time commitment, no thanks, I am done with that crap forever. just my opinion after 15 years of online gaming.
I have to agree with the time consumption, but you still died a lot more in the old games.
Guildwars was hard at launch but still not time consuming, I wish they could make a few more games with that in thought.
As I see it does hard mean that you need to play well or die a lot, not that you need to play a week to gain a single level. Spawn camping was not hard even in the old days. MMOs needs to challenge their players to be fun, not just add more grind (even if there is room for a few new MMOs that requires long grind as well, but I don't have time myself for games like that anymore).
Originally posted by zasten How can you say it is getting to easy, when they retard your level from 80 to 62 and leave the pve content at level 68! IMO this is NOT easy!!!
And how often do you actually wipe then?
The only thing that is hard today is PvP since there the difficulty depends on your opponent.
I did however really like GW2 at the first beta weekend, it was actually challenging then but they made it easy after that. Hard is when you actually have to be alert or die as you play even if you just do open world stuff.
i don't realy care about easy or hard when i enjoy it, but its sad how unmature they are, when i see a promising one, they are sure get raged about naked body parts, or blood...etc. because "kids will play it too"...
So dark fantasy & true horror mmorpg hard to born... or never.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Originally posted by sindur Play Darkfall Unholy Wars, its a game where you dont get hand held, you have to figure things out on your own or ask other people who is playing how to improve you skills.
Too bad the production quality of that game is abysmally bad and the whole game is just a gank fest instead of a sandbox MMO.
Don't confuse "hard" with "crappy"...
Except that it isn't... the lighting and sound, armor and environments in Darkfall is unmatched in most MMOs. Animations aren't great.
And ganking implies it is entirely senseless, which is not the case. It's all about politics.
Originally posted by DocBrody The only MMOs which are left out there with a challenge are Secret World and EvE. That´s about it
I wouldn't really call TSW an MMO...at all.
Originally posted by steamtank anyone who says vanilla WoW was casual... never went for rank 14(15?) in pvp (lawl its been a few years... i made rank 13) never raided vanilla content pre-nerfs it all went downhill at 1st expansion when the development shifted goals
Just because a lot people play something in a hardcore manner, does not make the game hardcore. The PvP, quests, and raids in WoW were all incredibly simple and casual. FRom day one.
Originally posted by Arclan Originally posted by moosecatlol ...It's funny to think now that everyone sees WoW as the most casual game to have ever existed, while the same time factually realizing that it still holds the title of most hardcore PvE game to have ever existed and it did so without the crutch of perma-death or exploding gear.
This is an example of how to win people over. Acknowledge, respectfully, another's position and offer up evidence for yours. Well spoken, sir; I am moved. Posts like this one make me think I should really give WoW a try. Especially since I have been a blizzard fan since Orcs & Humans. Or perhaps I should wait for Titan.
WoW being the "most hardcore PvE". Hah!
You want "most hardcore PvE"? Try EQ plane-raids in the first few years. Or DAoC's Atlantean 200 person ML raids, which lasted 13+ hours, for some.
WoW + anything "hardcore" = Hahahahahahahahahahaha!
ArcheAge, Black Desert and Bless videos InporylemQQ Youtube
Originally posted by FlyByKnight Why do people equate having a shit and piss bucket next to their computer + blood clotting as hardcore? What happened to problem solving and hand eye coordination?
Neither of which is important in modern MMOs when you have GUIs you can download that play the game for you and in game quests that light up the objectives.
What's hardcore is risk vs reward game design with deep and numerous gameplay mechanics.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Originally posted by FlyByKnight I don't know if games are too easy. What I do know is that some developers currently don't know what "difficulty" is. They think it's just adding tons of hp, tons of damage and making the enemy NPCs as cheap as possible. That's not challenging that's annoying. It's bad lazy design It's ironic that Firefall is one of the images referenced with pictures. Firefall is a game full of aimbots, that have more hp than necessary they can kill people pretty quickly no matter how skilled you are because they track you and are cheap. That's absolute NOT a challenge. People simply find exploits in the bad AI or positional exploits, or burn through content by zerging through it. Firefall isn't "too hard" it's cheap and poorly designed. It's easy to exploit and frustratingly BAD if you don't. It's the same reason why Guild Wars 2 dungeons tend to be utter garbage because ANet doesn't know what difficulty and challenge is. They shoe horned in mechanics to compete with TERA. A game like The Secret World has the best dungeons and challenges out of any of the new release MMOs. They took to the time to craft mechanics and encounters that challenges a players hand eye coordination, team work, build and decision making.
Secret world good story and bad everything else.
"Do not speak to me of fate!" ~ A fairy tale for the Demon Lord