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EQN: DG -"Holy Grails" and "Things Hated" In MMOs

DejoblueDejoblue Youngstown, OHPosts: 296Member Uncommon

Dave Georgeson "sit down to make big lists of “Holy Grails” for MMOs and lists of things they hated in MMOs. They didn’t allow themselves to stop retooling what the game was until they satisfied those things."

http://eq2wire.com/2013/03/27/eqnext-must-read-massively-talks-to-dave-georgeson-at-pax-east/

My holy grail is Single server.

My thing hated is Dungeon finder.

 

What are your "Holy Grails"?

What are your "things hated"?

 

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Comments

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,486Member Uncommon
    If they really are going for a single server (mega server) I am very happy to hear that. Between the mess of server launches and getting all your guild and friends on the same server and later server merges and name changes and much latter when people start leaving the game after a few years and servers become unbalanced... mega servers may give new MMOs a longer life.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • DejoblueDejoblue Youngstown, OHPosts: 296Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    If they really are going for a single server (mega server) I am very happy to hear that. Between the mess of server launches and getting all your guild and friends on the same server and later server merges and name changes and much latter when people start leaving the game after a few years and servers become unbalanced... mega servers may give new MMOs a longer life.

    Dave did not say that they were doing single server.

    Me: refers to me, dejoblue, the OP.

    I changed the format so that it, hopefully, makes it more clear.

     

    My apologies.

  • DejoblueDejoblue Youngstown, OHPosts: 296Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Seliri

    1rd

     

    damn you reposting old news... ~_~''...

    Do not worry, I am not competing with your thread where you tell people what you want.

    I am asking people what they think are the "holy grails" and also what they hate.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon

    in order for it to truly be "the largest sandbox style game ever made", it almost has to be a single server.

    my holy grail is simply being able to continue leveling up my single character for years like you could in EQ via the AA system and a slow leveling curve.

    most hated would have to be lame character models like EQ2 had or even worse, the Asian anime style mmo character models.

    can't stand em.

  • BidwoodBidwood Toronto, ONPosts: 554Member
    Holy grail: PVP implemented as one of the pillars of the game in such a way that it is fun and the game retains a big player base.
  • thedood123thedood123 Huntington, WVPosts: 149Member

    Holy Grail: Necromancers & Stylized Graphics (Hopefully they are still doing this)

    Most Hated: No Auction House & Bad Profession system

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,087Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by thedood123

    Most Hated: No Auction House

    Think i'd rather do my trading in the commonlands, perhaps using the offline system of Age Of Wushu.

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  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,486Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by thedood123

    Most Hated: No Auction House

    Think i'd rather do my trading in the commonlands.

    3hrs of game play and 1hr of it yelling in a trade channel? How is that fun? Dont miss that in the old EQ1 days.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • DejoblueDejoblue Youngstown, OHPosts: 296Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by thedood123

    Most Hated: No Auction House

    Think i'd rather do my trading in the commonlands, perhaps using the offline system of Age Of Wushu.

    Yea EQ lets you log off now, IIRC, but I love this idea where your character never leaves the game instead it becomes an NPC and you can have it be a merchant selling your wares or a guard for the city, or maybe your guild hall.

     

    Lots of cool stuff, but I digress.

  • BjelarBjelar RullumpPosts: 384Member

    Holy grale: No lowbie zones you outlevel. One world. Mobbs you can't kill for a VERY long time in the starting zone.

    Thing hated: Mandatory PvP

  • BjelarBjelar RullumpPosts: 384Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by thedood123

    Most Hated: No Auction House

    Think i'd rather do my trading in the commonlands.

    3hrs of game play and 1hr of it yelling in a trade channel? How is that fun? Dont miss that in the old EQ1 days.

    It's fun because you can cheat newbies and sell junk to people who don't know what it is or what it's worth. Griefing in PvE. It's great.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon

    What are your "Holy Grails"?

    • Exploration Centric Gameplay
    • Dungeon Finder/LFG Tool if game features instanced Progression Dungeons
    • Fast Paced Combat, preferable Action Combat but definitely no 4-6 rows of hot bars.
     
     
     
    What are your "things hated"?
     
    • Slow combat, turn based or tab target with zero mobility (i.e. like EQ2 or Vanguard- horrible combat)
    • 4 to 6 rows of abilities and skills
    • linear quest hubs
     

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • wizardanimwizardanim Apple Valley, CAPosts: 278Member

    Holy Grail:     Revitalization of the 'world' as an obstacle.

    Most Hated:  Marketplace.  I don't want to see your $2 hat.  Go farm the materials and make it yourself!

  • HeebaJeebaHeebaJeeba San Diego, CAPosts: 6Member

    Holy Grail:

    Risk vs. Reward. Via PvP or PvE. I just want the things that I've done, or the items I've collected to mean something, and create a long lasting memory.

     

    Things Hated:

    Daily's! omg please no daily's!

  • TraugarTraugar Robbinsville, NCPosts: 183Member Uncommon

    Holy Grail

    Being able to meaningfully group with friends regardless of level differences. Either via mentoring, skill system or something.  

    Consentual PvP via flagging system.

    Being able to interact with the world.  

    Character customization.  

    Crowd Control classes.  

     

    Things Hated

    Daily quests

    Dungeon/Raid Finder

    Instanced PvP.  

    Instancing in general.  

    Solo centric themepark model.

    Auction House.  Give the players the ability to police themselves by banning douchebags from their shops.  

    Personal story.  let us make our own.

    Everyone being the hero.  Ties into the previous.  Not everyone can be the chosen one so lets just stop introducing single player storylines into MMOs.  

     

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    My holy grail game would be Tera style art/character an fighting in a game that wasn't so linear and boring to play. Something that would combine sandbox and theme park into a game that let you wander around an open world, build a city craft meaningful items or follow a questline/story if that's what you felt like doing.

    My things hated would be ffa full loot non-consensual pvp. I'd never even consider trying a game that had it. I also hate small fully instanced worlds that each "zone" is so small you can see from one end to the other. ( like what neverwinter had )

  • quseioquseio stevens, PAPosts: 222Member

    things hated aweful mob models, always on pvp,spammers,hackers pointless achievments,  corpse retrievals  that take days because  rescues fail and die, greedy cash grabs by the devs via marketplace

    zones with lots of boreing empty space im looking at you eq2

    holy grail limited offline auctions, good raids,mid speed combat i  HATE twitch combat no thanks

    Custom spells, ship to ship combat for reals pvp or pve

  • GholosGholos GenovaPosts: 209Member

    Holy Grails:

    i would like to see Ogre and Troll races similar to the old EQ textures (so monstrous and ugly)  or at least the possibility to customize the caracter in order to appear like a brute (a sort of degenerate specie of Ogres and Trolls with long arms and short legs, fat body, big hands and feet for example).

     

    Thing Hated:

    move too fast from a place to another (as in GW2);

    being attacked by anothe player in PvE zone when i m questing;

    raise in levels too fast;

    cant play a real Tank with Taunt and aggro managment.

    .

    image


    "Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
    -Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.

  • DullahanDullahan Posts: 2,059Member Uncommon

    Must haves:

    Completely open world, no instances.

    Everything contestable.

    A huge, dangerous world, big enough to accommodate a lot of players so you don't need instances.

    Absolutely must have a pvp server(s).  Not picky about the type, could be FFA, level range, coin loot, item loot or no loot.  There just has to be an alternative to PvE servers full of passive aggressive players exchanging angry looks and trains because theres no recourse for players that shit on everyone else.

    There must be meaningful content outside of adventuring (combat).  I want to see a sandbox world that comes to life like UO and SWG pre-cu.  I want people to love doing stuff in the world involving crafting, socializing and interacting with other players in general, outside of fighting (pve or pvp).

    Hated:

    Instances.  If EQ Next has instances, regardless if its completely amazing in every other way, I most likely will not play it.  Instances ruin the economy, sense of accomplishment, competition, opportunities for socialization and interaction, and the immersive qualities of a fantasy game.

    Fast/Instant travel.  Flight paths, rocket horses, portals and npcs offering teleportation.  This always, without fail, takes the danger out of the world, ruins exploration and makes the world feel small in general.

    LFG Tools that allow you to teleport to places.


  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    A game world without any instancing at all. I can't believe that's a holy grail now, when it used to be the norm...

     

    Maybe a holy grail would be an interactive player influenced monster ecology like early UO used to have. Food chains, mobs looting the player and wearing their stuff...

     

     

    Things hated? Well.. instances. Also, quest based leveling. Quest "systems" in general need to go. GW2 was the first MMO in a long time that had a quest system worth a damn, then they ruined it with hearts and the instanced storyline.

  • NotimeforbsNotimeforbs Memphis, TNPosts: 346Member Common

    Holy Grail:

    1.  My first Holy Grail is more of a concept that never actually managed to be completely realized in an MMO (that I am aware.)  But the only game in which I ever experienced it was in SWG.  Again... the foundation for this was there... the Devs just never went anywhere with it.

    Anyway, there was this term we used to throw around: player interdependency.  Essentially, the classes or "Professions" in SWG were built in such a way that each one contributed in some way to the economic infrastructure of the game.  Each one provided a particular kind of service.  Even if the Profession was combat oriented, it still provided a service.  So basically, what it does is it provides your character with importance and roles even when you aren't in combat.  And even better - it wasn't necessarily crafting, unless you were a crafting profession to begin with.

    More than a fun mechanic, it essentially gave players a reason to interact and be social with one another.  I'm not going to get into explaining it too deeply, but it's something I really, really miss.  And given how this new age of MMO's practically goes out of its way to make sure you never have to speak to anyone, ever... I think it is very much needed.  I think this, beyond all other factors, is what gave the game that Sandbox feeling people are looking for these days.

    2.  Metroidvania questing:

    Basically, I don't want an "!" over some NPC's head telling me he has a task for me.  I want there to be storylines that unfold off of a simple quest.  "Your quest is to save the princess."  Well... in order to do that, I have to go to 8 difference labyrinths and collect these Tri-Force parts so that I can unlock the barrier to the final evil tower where the Princess is being held.  Any hints I get to how to find these labyrinths are given to me organically in the game.  Whatever levels I gain or mobs I kill along the way are purely circumstantial.  I might even have to travel through areas that are way too strong for me - the point is to just get through them.

    I can't really explain it well, but essentially, I just want some oldschool Metroidvania problem solving instead of this Themepark BS.

     

    Things Hated:

    I'm mostly just tired of the general philosophy of MMO's.  Designers are thinking way too digitally and simple and they aren't being very analog with their design.  This gets into what my Holy Grails are all about.

  • xxxxxx1xxxxxx1 San Antonio, TXPosts: 91Member

    Holy Grails -

    Massive world called "Norrath" in a single server - Exploration is once again FUN!

    Meaningful, intelligent combat gameplay that is absolutely fun. (aka world environment could be deciding factor...)

    Sandbox-style quest system that requires your thinking to embark an adventure that may be successful or a complete failure.

    Massive underground dungeons where you can easily get lost.

    Mounts could be killed and they are not stored in your pockets.

    Very detailed crafting system that is absolutely relevant and fun.

    Casting spells that require reagents no matter what. (providing that they are very beneficial)

    Player characters need to learn skills through interactivity and get better over time.

    Things Hated -

    Instances

    Map Radar (this is fantasy world, not sci-fi world.)

    Instant Travels except very rare spell - Teleportation that requires hard to find reagents

    Auction Houses

    Level Up!

    Quests that ask you to kill 10 rats or pick up 10 poops

    Group, Dungeon, Raid LFG Finders - these systems destroy the communities in the game world.

     

    There I said it.

     

     

  • thedood123thedood123 Huntington, WVPosts: 149Member
    How exactly is no instances supposed to work? "I am going to go do this dungeon real quick" ... "Oh wait there are 100 other people there" what fun is that
  • skeaserskeaser Wichita Falls, TXPosts: 3,849Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by thedood123
    How exactly is no instances supposed to work? "I am going to go do this dungeon real quick" ... "Oh wait there are 100 other people there" what fun is that

    Simple, you get rid of static dungeon spawns and static mob loot. Dungeons become about exploration, not farming.

  • thedood123thedood123 Huntington, WVPosts: 149Member
    Originally posted by skeaser
    Originally posted by thedood123
    How exactly is no instances supposed to work? "I am going to go do this dungeon real quick" ... "Oh wait there are 100 other people there" what fun is that

    Simple, you get rid of static dungeon spawns and static mob loot. Dungeons become about exploration, not farming.

    I am all for that somewhat, I do however like farming a lot... like killing the same thing over and over for a specific item. I also wish that instead of basing most gear off of boss drops that they make crafted just as good

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