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lots of gamers make sick sarcastic jokes, but one guy is facing 8 years for his comment

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Comments

  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 351Member
    Originally posted by IrishChai

    For those of you thinking this is a hoax, he didn't make the comments on League of Legends. The dumbass made it on Facebook (in an argument about LoL) so it was very easy for the mother and police to track him down and see his threat.

     

    After half a dozen school shootings across the US, police are bound to start taking threats seriously eventually. Don't you think? It's like if someone was slowly killing off your entire family but you waited until a couple dozen were already dead before buying a gun and preemptively shooting the next person that comes at your family with a weapon.

     

    Plenty of people now believe these threats by kids have been the only 'sign' in several cases that somebody was going to shoot up a school. America isn't scared. It's just determining not to take bullshit from stupid kids that think it's funny making it so easy for the insane ones to act on it since the 'warning signs' were played off as a joke, or 'not a big deal' time and time again. Considering the kid already prompted someone else calling him 'insane', there might have been more leading up to the one line threat in the story. If everyone starts to think 'lol jk' is a way to play off any threat, then kids can just start using that now before shooting up a school. The American government and police clearly aren't afraid to take any steps necessary to preemptively attack and detain any possible threat, at the expense of any other law or freedom that can potentially protect someone planning an attack.

     

    I'm not going to argue if that is 'right' or not. It might be crossing the line in many cases according to the constitution, but this isn't a place for that kind of debate. Some of you seem pitifully ignorant or misinformed about the facts above. At least get your shit straight before picking a side.

     

    My only inclination to respond to the story itself was 'lol wtfpwned'. Back when I was in school, this is remarkably similar to that loser that went around talking shit goofing around like an idiot until someone took him seriously and beat the crap out of him. I was the guy watching with the popcorn (technically soda and muffin most of the time) because some of us just aren't that stupid and it was quite entertaining seeing justice delivered. The kid is lucky he didn't end up in the hospital by the parents of past school-shooting victims tracking him down and teaching him a lesson.

    thx for this, great post.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    Making a threat does not justify prison.  They have to prove conspiracy.   Notes and plans and second or third party witnesses to prove guilt.  A crime has to be committed or it didn't happen.  At best, they can file a restraining order and keep an eye on him.

    he's been in jail for the last 6 months -- awaiting his trial

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/27/teenager-justin-carter-facebook-comment-jail_n_3512025.html

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    Making a threat does not justify prison.  They have to prove conspiracy.   Notes and plans and second or third party witnesses to prove guilt.  A crime has to be committed or it didn't happen.  At best, they can file a restraining order and keep an eye on him.

    he's been in jail for the last 6 months -- awaiting his trial

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/27/teenager-justin-carter-facebook-comment-jail_n_3512025.html

    That would indicate there is real evidence or there is a travesty taking place all in the name of security.

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  • jdnewelljdnewell Spring Hill, TNPosts: 2,150Member Uncommon

    I will withhold judgement until I know more facts.

    Based on just what I read he should not be held or put on trial. However I am sure there is a bit more to the story. Typically a judge would have to see him a few days after the arrest for a bond hearing. Either the bond was revoked or was set so high he could not be bailed out by his parents.

    The judge for some reason thought he was an actual danger and did one of those two things. Perhaps this was not the 1st time he was brought before the judge. Perhaps he has made threats in the past. Perhaps the police found evidence that he was a risk for a mass school killing.

    I dont know, and neither does anyone else it seems. Follow the trial and see what comes out before rushing to judgement.

    Maybe he is being wrongly accused and held, maybe he isnt. Either way the days of making threats to go shoot children are over. Especially on social media sites.

    If the kid just made a bad joke then he wont serve any time. The eight years is a maximum sentence I am sure, he will probably get off with a slap on the wrist, unless he actually was a threat and did plan to kill children.

  • LugorsLugors EarthPosts: 180Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Lugors

    I completely support the belief that a person is innocent until proven guilty.  Until they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he planned on going through with said threat, then he does not deserve eight years in prison and until they do prove guilt, he is innocent at this point.

     

    He's charged with making a threat of violence against children.  Pretty sure this an open and shut case against him.  What is not known by the legion of internet trolls is whether he has a history of violence, a juvenile record, a history of drug abuse or mental health issues.  The prosecutor doesn't have to try the case in the public, so that side isn't shown in the PR campaign the family is waging.  The simple fact that he has been held without bail is very telling.  That means someone convinced a judge that he was a threat to the public.   

    Making a threat does not justify prison.  They have to prove conspiracy.   Notes and plans and second or third party witnesses to prove guilt.  A crime has to be committed or it didn't happen.  At best, they can file a restraining order and keep an eye on him.

    No they don't.  Making the threat is enough here.

  • Billr00Billr00 lexington, KYPosts: 99Member
    I have an interesting side note .. How did some random woman from canada find out his address and that he lived close to a school??
  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lugors
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Lugors

    I completely support the belief that a person is innocent until proven guilty.  Until they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he planned on going through with said threat, then he does not deserve eight years in prison and until they do prove guilt, he is innocent at this point.

     

    He's charged with making a threat of violence against children.  Pretty sure this an open and shut case against him.  What is not known by the legion of internet trolls is whether he has a history of violence, a juvenile record, a history of drug abuse or mental health issues.  The prosecutor doesn't have to try the case in the public, so that side isn't shown in the PR campaign the family is waging.  The simple fact that he has been held without bail is very telling.  That means someone convinced a judge that he was a threat to the public.   

    Making a threat does not justify prison.  They have to prove conspiracy.   Notes and plans and second or third party witnesses to prove guilt.  A crime has to be committed or it didn't happen.  At best, they can file a restraining order and keep an eye on him.

    No they don't.  Making the threat is enough here.

    No it doesn't.  They are merely making an exception because they're scared of another school shooting, which is fine, but they should be following the rule of law and that rule is:  innocent until proven guilty and making a threat in the manner in which was reported does not even remotely justify the current responses.

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  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by jdnewell

    If the kid just made a bad joke then he wont serve any time. The eight years is a maximum sentence I am sure, he will probably get off with a slap on the wrist, unless he actually was a threat and did plan to kill children.

    i think the case will be dismissed once it gets to court  (expected July 1)

     

    meanwhile, the teen is spending months in jail over a Facebook comment made in bad taste

  • TreekodarTreekodar jlkjklPosts: 524Member
    A nation of fear. A foundation built on the annihilation of Indians and the constructs of slaves. Those that sacrifice freedom for a bit of safety deserves neither. But I guess walking all over others to secure yourself has always been the American way.

    Eleanor Rigby.

  • IrishChaiIrishChai St Louis, MOPosts: 529Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by IrishChai

     

    I completely support the belief that a person is innocent until proven guilty.  Until they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he planned on going through with said threat, then he does not deserve eight years in prison and until they do prove guilt, he is innocent at this point.

     

    That's clearly the American constitutional way of handling it, but people are not innocent until proven guilty. They are guilty of a crime the second they commit one and have the right in america to get away with it if nobody can prove it happened. It's questionable if that's effective in any way, aside from stopping repeat offenders (sometimes). Nobody can stop murders by waiting to blame someone until after the fact. People also can't predict murder, but the current American government seems willing to monitor everyone's personal life to develop and initiate preventative measures as far as they can push the boundary of their own power. Like I said, my only side of things is that if someone steps out of line, they should get punished whether it's by the people or the police. The legal system in America is a joke, so I don't support your belief but I do understand it.

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,229Member Uncommon

    It seems many people are confusing logic and common sense with the law. A bit of advice, should you find yourself embroiled in a legal dispute, hire a lawyer lest you imagine that you will appeal to the legal system using fair minded logic and common sense.

    The law is built without these concepts in mind and acts without these concepts in mind. I do not condone jailing a teenager (regardless of how stupid said teenager is) for making a joke on the internet. But you can't reason it away, a law, no matter how stupid, is a law. You can go ahead and start some political protests in hopes of attracting attention, but posting on a gaming forum will garner none.

    Again, just in case you skipped it. Logic and law do not mix. They are not buddies and they do not get along.

  • GiddianGiddian Livonia, MIPosts: 415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    Originally posted by Giddian
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

     


    Originally posted by Giddian

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Originally posted by Giddian

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    "But a Canadian woman who saw the post looked up Carter’s Austin address, determined that it was near an elementary school, and called the police."

     

    That right there is the whole crux of the problem. "Some lady" decided he was serious and called the authorities. In the atmosphere of League of Legends, this "some lady" should be charged for the waste of time, money, and resources she wasted.

    I applaud the petition and the poignant "First Amendment" rights reiteration.

    Next Stop: Thought Police.


    Thought Police? Really?

     

    This is a threat, Joke or Not it IS a terrorist threat.


    No. It is NOT a terrorist threat. I highly doubt, though I could be wrong, he is associated with any known or unknown terrorist organization. Maybe he is a splinter cell of 1. Who knows?

     

    Was it a smart thing to post on Facebook? Of course not. It was very stupid. There is no law making stupidity against the law, unfortunately.

    I will quote good old Benjamin Franklin here:
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty."

    Think on that for a bit.


    Yes it is 100% a Terrorist threat. there is NO doubt about it. as for the rest? The only person quoted is the Father. His word is 100% correct? The police are the gestopo? Rush in and Not only take in But CHARGE him on the word of 1 caller? You are the type of person this article targets. This is entirely 1 sided. Do you Know who his associates are? do you Know this is the ONLY comment made? Do you Know ANYTHING other than what the DAD Said? Do you think the Dad is going to say ANYTHING that shows MAYBE His son is Wrong?  

     

    Think about that.    Wait,,,, Is that a black Helicopter?????


    No. It is NOT terrorist threat. It IS a joke. A bad joke, I agree, but a joke nonetheless. I could be wrong. Perhaps he DID intend to go shoot up a school and eat the beating hearts. I really do not know and am assuming on the side of humanity and innocence. Remember that fundamental precept of America Justice: Innocent until proven guilty. Or does that get thrown out the window so that you can feel safe inside your suburban home?

     

    From what *I* have read, I have seen ONLY the ONE report from a Canadian woman. Perhaps you could link me to what you have read about that cites more than this? Since he did post it on Facebook, anyone and everyone could log on and see what he wrote. And like most internet users, they will not make the effort to research what transpired before (him being called "insane"), stopping as soon as they find what they agree with. That is shoddy work, especially for police.

    Now, if he had told the Canadian woman that he was going to rape or kill her specifically, harm her specifically in any way, I am all for arresting him. Had he specified which school he was going to shoot up, by all means, keep an eye on him. Investigate him. See if he has motive and means to do so. Maybe they did, I do not know. Information is very lacking in the few reports I've seen.

    The fact that you believe what he said, not what he did, warrants his incarceration makes me sad.

    Again, context is missing or neglected.

    Nope. No black helicopters spotted over here.

     first. it is a terrorist threat. You sure about that? Terroristic Threat Law & Legal Definition  A terroristic threat is a crime generally involving a threat to commit violence communicated with the intent to terrorize another Who was being terrorized?, to cause evacuation of a building What building needed evacuating?, or to cause serious public inconvenience Where was the public inconvenienced?, in reckless disregard of the risk of causing such terror or inconvenience Was there reckless disregard and who again was terrorized or inconvenienced?. It may mean an offense against property or involving danger to another person that may include but is not limited to recklessly endangering another person, harassment, stalking, ethnic intimidation, and criminal mischief. Again, who recklessly endangered?

    The following is an example of a Texas statute dealing with terroristic threats:

    TERRORISTIC THREAT

    (a) A person commits an offense if he threatens to commit any offense involving violence to any person or property with intent to:

    1. cause a reaction of any type to his threat[s] by an official or volunteer agency organized to deal with emergencies; What agency reacted to his Facebook post?
    2. place any person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury; Who was in fear of imminent serious bodily injury?
    3. prevent or interrupt the occupation or use of a building; room; place of assembly; place to which the public has access; place of employment or occupation; aircraft, automobile, or other form of conveyance; or other public place; What building, room, place of assembly, public access place, place of employment, aircraft, automobile, or other conveyance or public place  was threatened?
    4. cause impairment or interruption of public communications, public transportation, public water, gas, or power supply or other public service; Which public communications, transportation, utilities, or services were interrupted or impaired?
    5. place the public or a substantial group of the public in fear of serious bodily injury; Who was in fear of serious bodily injury? or
    6. influence the conduct or activities of a branch or agency of the federal government, the state, or a political subdivision of the state. What activities were influenced of which agency of the federal government, state, or political subdivision of the state?
     
    He is  Innocent until proven guilty. he hasn't been convicted. Only Charged.
     
    look at other school shootings. Similar thing were said by the killers and dismissed. Maybe you would prefer people wait until the act is committed before doing anything?
     
    The Law is the Law. Freedom of speech only takes you so far. doesn't absolve you of consequences of you comments

    Tell me, for I do not know, who or what was terrorized?

     don't twist it.

    Terroristic THREAT. and that was to Shoot up a School and Kill Children. Does it need to be specific and Carried out?

    your willing to stand up for this person without knowing all the facts of the Case. Joke or not a Joke, he was Wrong. The rest? Does he disserve Prison, was he going to do it? is there reason to hold him without Bail? Without seeing all the facts on that. I couldn't say, but You don't know it by reading a one sided article with the only one being interviewed is an Upset father.

     

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  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Bullshit like this makes me angry at American laws.  Instead of putting him in Jail for 8 years and ruining his life for something he didnt even do other than write one irresponsible sentence why not just have him in probation and keep an eye on him for a while if they take it that seriously.  Or would that cost more than just caging him up? This is so stupid.

    Be careful what you say, bro...you don't want to end up in a Labor Camp do you ?

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  • jdnewelljdnewell Spring Hill, TNPosts: 2,150Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Treekodar
    A nation of fear. A foundation built on the annihilation of Indians and the constructs of slaves. Those that sacrifice freedom for a bit of safety deserves neither. But I guess walking all over others to secure yourself has always been the American way.

    Thats another debate entirely.

    While we have people killing 20+ kids, mass shootings in movie theaters, assholes flying planes into buildings  killing 5000+ .

    Mass shootings on college campus killing dozens, ect. then its foolish to expect anything different. Right or wrong its the way it is. Dont make threats to walk into a school, kill school age kids on social media. Especially when 27 kids were killed in just such an event a few months ago.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Giddian
    <lots of discussion going on>
    I don't think we will agree or sway the other. You win :)

    [EDIT]
    I am not a news hound by any stretch, so I Googled "School Shootings US" and found this wikipedia page. Wow...

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • IrishChaiIrishChai St Louis, MOPosts: 529Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by adam_nox
    Originally posted by Treekodar
    A nation of fear. A foundation built on the annihilation of Indians and the constructs of slaves. Those that sacrifice freedom for a bit of safety deserves neither. But I guess walking all over others to secure yourself has always been the American way.

    Go away idiot, you contribute nothing, and probably know less.

     

    I bet a lot of people called Benjamin Franklin an idiot for saying that. lol

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon

    Poor kid.

    But how is this thread an MMO discussion?

     

  • IrishChaiIrishChai St Louis, MOPosts: 529Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by madazz

    Poor kid.

    But how is this thread an MMO discussion?

     

     

    A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, it all began as an argument over League of Legends.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    I'd be happier if there was a second primary source on this (one that didn't trace back to the KHOU story).

    The Internet is a funny place.  Part private basement conversation, part broadcast to the world.  You never know quite how what you write is going to be read by strangers and sarcasm/hyperbole/euphamisms often translate very poorly.  There closest to this story that I've ever seen locally was a vampire LARP story written by a high school student that somehow ended up in the hands of police and was badly, badly misunderstood.  It took a while, but common sense eventually prevailed.  I also had the experience of testifying at an inquest during the depths of the D&D-is-evil paranoia days and that was not particularly fun.

     

     

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    a similar facebook case involving a boston teen

    http://rt.com/usa/methuen-expletive-facebook-dambrosio-706/

    he waited a month in jail before his case was dismissed in court

     

    http://www.ibtimes.com/cameron-dambrosio-set-free-massachusetts-teen-released-following-arrest-facebook-terror-post-1296997

    “The grand jury’s decision underscores what we have been saying all along: The prosecution doesn’t have a case here, and it’s a grave injustice that it has taken this long to get Cam returned to the safety of his home and family,” Evan Greer, of Boston's Center for Rights and Fight for the Future, said. “While today is a major victory for Cam, the chilling effect that this case has already had on free speech cannot be undone.”

    If convicted, D’Ambrosio could have spent up to 20 years in prison.

    Echoing the concerns of many who have been monitoring this case, Shirin Sinnar, an assistant professor of law at Stanford University Law School, said to Reuters, "Law enforcement wants to preempt acts of violence before they occur. ... The risk is that you sweep in people who had no intent to cause a crime."

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    People shouldn't say anything on the internet that they wouldn't say to someone in real life.  Trying to hide behind a veil of anonymity is stupid.  I'm all for this and other people getting punished so severely if this is going to stop the trend of idiocy.

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    Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:
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  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by maplestone
    I'd be happier if there was a second primary source on this (one that didn't trace back to the KHOU story).The Internet is a funny place.  Part private basement conversation, part broadcast to the world.  You never know quite how what you write is going to be read by strangers and sarcasm/hyperbole/euphamisms often translates very poorly.  There closest to this story that I've ever seen locally was a vampire LARP story written by a high school student that somehow ended up in the hands of police and was badly, badly misunderstood.  It took a while, but common sense eventually prevailed.  I also had the experience of testifying at an inquest during the depths of the D&D-is-evil paranoia days and that was not particularly fun.
    That was interesting aspect to the anime series Ghost In the Shell. The net was vast and information "seeds" were often tracked, blocked, or placed by small websites/blogs and carried to the mainstream from there :)

    It was only about 30 years in the future. Maybe we are closer than they realized?

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 802Member Uncommon
     I hate  fascists, internet dumbasses and nosy fuckers so there's a lot for me to like in this story. 
  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    I don't believe it... just saying.

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  • AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,552Moderator Uncommon

    Locking due to our policy on political/ethical discussions and real life controversies. While the topic is tangentially related, it became an immediate discussion about laws and related matters.

     

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