GW2 was not made to be another MMO, not to be on par with Rift, LOTRO. It was made to be another alternative to WoW. And it is not. Play the game if you like, the game is profitable. But is not the sucess with players the market, the players thought before the release.
Its not on par with Rift and LOTRO (assuming you mean in terms of population). Its somewhere between EvE and WoW. Its a success, get over it.
And *all* games are an alternative to WoW. The fact that *lots* of people play GW2 means that for some it certainly is an alternative.
No game will ever reach the heights WoW reached, none will probably even come halfway. i think we are still at least 5 or 6 years away from WoW coming down to the pack even.
GW2 was not made to be another MMO, not to be on par with Rift, LOTRO. It was made to be another alternative to WoW. And it is not. Play the game if you like, the game is profitable. But is not the sucess with players the market, the players thought before the release.
Its not on par with Rift and LOTRO (assuming you mean in terms of population). Its somewhere between EvE and WoW. Its a success, get over it.
And *all* games are an alternative to WoW. The fact that *lots* of people play GW2 means that for some it certainly is an alternative.
No game will ever reach the heights WoW reached, none will probably even come halfway. i think we are still at least 5 or 6 years away from WoW coming down to the pack even.
Justin Beiber is also a success.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
Without defining 'success', for the purposes of this discussion, there really isn't any meaningful discussion beyond "Everyone agrees!" followed by the inevitable "No we don't!".
Further, without quantifying the nature of the claimed 'success', what is there to debate?
I realize that most discussions on these boards are pointless, that's part of the... Charm of this place. But claiming something is a success... Ummm... Because? That's going beyond pointless and into the realm of random grunts.
There are strict definitions of success that are relevant to the industry and that is the rate of return, opportunity cost, etc..
A lot of people have brought this up, yet it's conveniently ignored and eschewed in favor of bullshit.
It would be much more interesting to find out what the net profit and rate of return of GW2 was, because it is the best indicator of not only the lifespan of GW2, but what future games will be like.
POS can still be succesful, it's just a POS though. I swear, like Lil Wayne now is a POS(rapping wise and direction not him as a person I don't dislike him that much lol), but he's still successful lol. Justin Bei....yea you get the point.
I think everyone is taking successful as if it was a great game for them or not.
WoW was a great game at it's time, it failed to even get me, but I'm not going to be a hater and say overall it's a failure.
WoW's a success, bogus payment model I swear, but still an success.
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by General-Zod
Hipster Ha! Thats too funny...
When did anyone scream "your world is too mainstream" ?!?!
Good games all depend on preference, a good game to me could be a POS to you and vice versa... popularity has nothing to do with it. Im also not one of those people that "justify" a bad game (bad to me) because alot of people play it. if the game is good (good to me) its good because I like playing it not because (alot of other people like playing it).
Some examples
LoL > Dota 2 > HoN
GW > GW2 > Rift
SWG > Daoc > EQ
The quote 'GW2 is to MMOS is what Lady gaga is to music' and you giving it a like. i think it is self explanatory..no?
That is what hipsters do. They scoff at anything popular and make analogies to bieber, mcdonald and lady gaga. Only because something is popular doesn't mean it is bad by default.
Here let me help you out.
The [like] in my reply was to agree that "successful" and "good game" arent synonymous. Success can be messured with numbers and charts while a "good mmo" cannot ... the reason being is due to varying factors depending on ones perference on what exactly makes a good game.
There are millions of people that wouldnt dare touch a Lady Gaga album and find her music complete and udder trash not because shes "mainstream" its because of "type" of music she does... the same exact thing could be said about Lil Wayne and his music as RizelStar pointed out. With that being said, both these people are multi-plantinum selling recording artist with millions of fans and people that actually support thier music.
You might think im a hipster because I dont like goat meat even though its the widly the most consumed meat on the planet and maybe its too "mainstream" for me... OR it could be that I actually dont like the taste.
This thread is pointless...
And i am telling you that successful and good game are many times synonymous. I found his post to be a cliche, something you often see used by people to put down anything that is popular.
And i agree that this thread is pointless. The moment people starting throwing in lady gaga, mc donalds and justin beiber analogies you know it si downhill from there.
^Doogie has it
I cannot fathom how you people could even come up with arguments like you have here. Successful? Yes it is! Popular? Yes is is! Liked by tons? Yes it is!!
What are you arguing about?!?!?!
MMOGOD?!?!
Nope....
But a TON of us really like it....get over yourselves.
I unno, it's a nice game and I think it has great combat and graphics. Interesting mechanics that aren't like most other MMOs out there....Really neat races too. I like it, think it's a successful piece of art. I don't know why people gripe and moan and whinge but to each their own?
Floats my boat though! No alcohol required even!
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Guild Wars 2 is definitely a success,there's no doubt there..
It just didnt live up to the hype it and its fans generated.
Well, there are plenty of us that think it's more than lived up to the hype as well, so once again we have differing opinions at play.
Yup.
It's not for everyone and it's not perfect.
But honestly, I refuse to P2P anything after GW2.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
I´ve been playing since open Beta...and i simply love this game!
I´m now leveling a Guardian and having lots of fun! For me GW2 is exactly what i was expecting & looking for!
And with all the constant free updates & events there is no time to get get bored! Plus i´m in a very social & active guild and that helps too. For me is the biggest suscess since vanilla WoW.
Never ever before a MMO got me hooked for over a year since wow,long time ago...and it looks to me that´s not going to change anytime soon
If you want an objective measurement of GW2's success. Ask Arenanet if GW2 is a financial success. Meaning if the revenue is as they were expecting or even exceeds it.
All other criteria you make up as player whether a MMO is a success, are highly subjective and only meaningful to yourself. So I suggest to keep it simple. Play the game you like instead of worrying if some game is a success or not. It is not as if it makes it more fun to play if it is. And it is also not your achievement if it is a success. Games are also not sports clubs to root for and defend like the OP does.
But to me profit =! success. From a business pov there are arguments you can make for that, but i am talking from the pov of a gamer, who wants to play good games. Let's look at the marketing and advertising that the devs themselves did.
Did the game live up to the manifesto? No... more than 50% of the philosophies in the manifesto are not clearly and concisely applied to the actual game, simply put, things do not work the same way they insinuated that they would in the manifesto.
Did the game give WoW a run for it's money or surpass it like Mike Obrien's goals were? Not even close... so it came up short here too.
So it is a success in that it sold 3 million boxes, the retention rate is unknown but based on various activity indicators and testimony I think it's safe to say there are more people disenfranchised with the game, than those who love it. If you think otherwise you are living under a rock, and probably just run in very pro-gw2 circles instead of listening to all sorts of gamers.
But if we are just talking about boxes sold, than diablo3 is one of the most successful games ever made. As gamers we know that d3 fell short and hemorrhaged players though.
So we have a game, that failed to live up to many of its big promises, and didn't achieve what the head honcho behind anet wanted it to, and by MANY forms of measurement, has lost a large amount of active players. Is that a success? To me personally it is not.
The problem with threads like these are that people who enjoy the game, have a really difficult time considering alternate points of view, they think that because they enjoy the game, everyone else has to or everyone else is wrong, and they can't fully understand or analyze the flaws of the game, because they are so biased.
It's sorta like those guys that claim gw2 is just the chess of mmo pvp, when in reality it is really dumbed down pvp that barely anyone cares about, and has a terrible competitive community as shown by how little interest there is on things like twitch.tv. Simply put there is a correlation between how popular a game is, and how many people want to watch people streaming that particular game, when GW2 was huge (near launch) there were a lot of people watching it, now that so many players have quit, it is astonishingly unpopular for streams. Anet has never been shy about popularity milestones, so it's pretty obvious the game hasn't been growing, if they had tons of active players they would mention it too, because it is good PR and advertising.
Also even if it is a success from a purely business pov, it isn't quite as simple as how much revenue it made. Anet had a brand, with the launch of GW2 they have strengthened and weakened their brand to different types of players. I think overall gw2 left the loyal gw1 fans very unhappy, and it didn't really have staying power with most seasoned mmo players. This will impact their future appeal. Sort of like with d3 blizzard did a ton of damage to their brand name, now in blizzard's case they have so much momentum that they can get away with it. I don't really think anet is in that position. Unless anet comes up with something completely mindblowing, their next game probably won't even do as well as gw2, because they have done quite a bit of damage, they made too many bold claims, and failed to deliver to a very noticeable extent.
tldr; gw2 turned a profit, there are more strong indicators that the population has dropped dramatically, than there are of it increasing, it failed to deliver on much of what anet promised.
Guild Wars 2 is definitely a success,there's no doubt there..
It just didnt live up to the hype it and its fans generated.
Well, there are plenty of us that think it's more than lived up to the hype as well, so once again we have differing opinions at play.
He is not talking about that kind of hype but claims by fans that GW2 will take MMO world by storm, kill WOW and change MMO landscape for ever. He is talking about hype witch had some actual effects on MMO genre as large. GW2 came and went and MMO world is still going on its own pace. GW2 arrived with a small blip on radar rather than a huge bang.
Even head honcho of Anet Mr Mike O Brian claimed they will beat WOW and become number one. It was all part of over confidence and hype machinery that fell on its face.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
GW2 came and went and MMO world is still going on its own pace.
GW2 went? I wasn't aware of such failure... I must be playing on some emulated server then right now.
Did i say its a failure? you know that just couple of pages back you were quoting me and supporting me when i was saying it isn't a failure by an sense of the word? what makes you think i would call it a faluire now?
What i meant was that just like many other MMOS, it released, many played it...things have gone back to normal, people have moved on and MMO genre is going forward unaffected or being changed drastically by GW2.
Just like many other MMO releases before, it has joined list of all the wannabe 'we want to beat WOW and be number one ' list.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
GW2 came and went and MMO world is still going on its own pace.
GW2 went? I wasn't aware of such failure... I must be playing on some emulated server then right now.
Its still very well populated and being updated constantly.....but there is no denying that less people are active in it today than 6 months ago. Its active player growth has stalled.
GW2 is an awsome and active game, but lets call a spade a spade. It didnt change the MMO landscape, it didnt put any game out of business, and other developrs are still targeting WoW (or something else entirly), not GW2. it succedded in carving out its own niche, but it came up short of "setting a new standard" (you know, what it claims it did in every press release).
GW2 came and went and MMO world is still going on its own pace.
GW2 went? I wasn't aware of such failure... I must be playing on some emulated server then right now.
Did i say its a failure? you know that just couple of pages back you were quoting me and supporting me when i was saying it isn't a failure by an sense of the word? what makes you think i would call it a faluire now?
What i meant was that just like many other MMOS, it released, many played it...things have gone back to normal, people have moved on and MMO genre is going forward unaffected or being changed drastically by GW2.
Just like many other MMO releases before, it has joined list of all the wannabe 'we want to beat WOW and be number one ' list.
"GW2 went" is just wrong, that's my point. GW2 is still here, going strong, accelerating the rate of FREE content releases, and hiring when other recent games were firing people and moving the "free to play, pay to win" model.
GW2 came, true. But it definitely isn't gone yet, and it definitely influenced the genre, since not only upcoming games but also existing games are "importing" features from GW2.
Agreed. In fact, I might go so far as to say that at the rate GW2 is going, it might soon usurp WoW as the king of MMORPGs (no, its not there yet, but if it stays the course long enough it might).
GW2 came and went and MMO world is still going on its own pace.
GW2 went? I wasn't aware of such failure... I must be playing on some emulated server then right now.
Did i say its a failure? you know that just couple of pages back you were quoting me and supporting me when i was saying it isn't a failure by an sense of the word? what makes you think i would call it a faluire now?
What i meant was that just like many other MMOS, it released, many played it...things have gone back to normal, people have moved on and MMO genre is going forward unaffected or being changed drastically by GW2.
Just like many other MMO releases before, it has joined list of all the wannabe 'we want to beat WOW and be number one ' list.
"GW2 went" is just wrong, that's my point. GW2 is still here, going strong, accelerating the rate of FREE content releases, and hiring when other recent games were firing people and moving the "free to play, pay to win" model.
GW2 came, true. But it definitely isn't gone yet, and it definitely influenced the genre, since not only upcoming games but also existing games are "importing" features from GW2.
Agreed. In fact, I might go so far as to say that at the rate GW2 is going, it might soon usurp WoW as the king of MMORPGs (no, its not there yet, but if it stays the course long enough it might).
That won't be hard because by the time GW2 will become king of MMORPGS, WOW will be as old as dust and wither away on its own. But not because it was due to GW2's awesomeness but because it is a very old game.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
If GW2 gained 4million active accounts, and WoW lost 4 million active accounts... they'd be neck and neck, that's ALL it takes fellas.
Also a lil business 101 for you guys, putting more people on a project and changing a lot of philosophies is not usually an indicator of rapid growth, it is usually an indicator of damage control.
If GW2 gained 4million active accounts, and WoW lost 4 million active accounts... they'd be neck and neck, that's ALL it takes fellas.
Also a lil business 101 for you guys, putting more people on a project and changing a lot of philosophies is not usually an indicator of rapid growth, it is usually an indicator of damage control.
Even if you are part of the crowd that dismisses WoW's 8.3 million subs as being mostly from China who login for 5 min a month...though highly exaderated if that is what you believe, they still have 8.3 million active players.
Seeing as how Anet only announces box sales (not unique logins a la Blizz with Diablo 3), we have 3 million box sales. How many of those 3 million do you think login (even for 5 min) a month, this long into its life?
You may need to rethink ALL of your math "fella" lol.
EDIT: 100$ says this will be interprated as me saying GW2 is dead lol
If GW2 gained 4million active accounts, and WoW lost 4 million active accounts... they'd be neck and neck, that's ALL it takes fellas.
Also a lil business 101 for you guys, putting more people on a project and changing a lot of philosophies is not usually an indicator of rapid growth, it is usually an indicator of damage control.
Even if you are part of the crowd that dismisses WoW's 8.3 million subs as being mostly from China who login for 5 min a month...though highly exaderated if that is what you believe, they still have 8.3 million active players.
Seeing as how Anet only announces box sales (not unique logins as la Blizz with Diablo 3), we have 3 million box sales. How many of those 3 million do you think login (even for 5 min) a month, this far into its existance?
You may need to rethink ALL of your math "fella" lol.
EDIT: 100$ says this will be interprated as me saying GW2 is dead lol
Actually I interpret it as you assuming the game is much healthier than it actually is, fella. By all third party indications the game has lost the majority of it's playerbase. It barely gets viewers on twitch, and other programs used to measure sample sizes of mmo players have also indicated severe drop off in activity. These programs have shown very strong correlation in their data compared to other mmorpgs, it would be silly to just magically assume that with gw2 things are completely different.
Do you honestly think gw2 has more than 400k active players? Let me guess, you think it is closer to 1million or 2million? Even the biggest MMO ever made only has like a 20% retention rate, and that is unusually high for mmos. So I mean using what data we have it looks like my math is actually pretty solid if not a bit too generous to gw2.
If GW2 gained 4million active accounts, and WoW lost 4 million active accounts... they'd be neck and neck, that's ALL it takes fellas.
Also a lil business 101 for you guys, putting more people on a project and changing a lot of philosophies is not usually an indicator of rapid growth, it is usually an indicator of damage control.
Number of active accounts is a tricky thing with a b2p game. I have the game still on HD and now and then click the icon to patch it but I haven't logged in for a long time. Is my account active then? With a p2p game it's easier to do the numbers.
Disclaimer: I think that GW2 is a success but in my opinion it's one of the worst rpg's I've ever played and extremely boring once you hit 80.
If GW2 gained 4million active accounts, and WoW lost 4 million active accounts... they'd be neck and neck, that's ALL it takes fellas.
Also a lil business 101 for you guys, putting more people on a project and changing a lot of philosophies is not usually an indicator of rapid growth, it is usually an indicator of damage control.
Number of active accounts is a tricky thing with a b2p game. I have the game still on HD and now and then click the icon to patch it but I haven't logged in for a long time. Is my account active then? With a p2p game it's easier to do the numbers.
Disclaimer: I think that GW2 is a success but in my opinion it's one of the worst rpg's I've ever played and extremely boring once you hit 80.
I really dont understand why they dont just do like Blizzard did with D3 and announce unique logins. According to Blizz, D3 get 3 million unique logins a month, 1 million unique a day. This is the way all B2P games should be counted, unless there is maybe something to hide, or would be hard to spin.
there is one major difference to W'S and wow. I stopped playing guild wars 2 a month and a half after release haven't even patched it since. I haven't played wow since 2 months after MoP launched, I have patched that and I do every so often think about paying 15 bucks and playing for a month. I don't think about GW2 unless someone brings it up and that usually ends with a shoulder shrug and an "Eh". IM not saying GW2 is a failure and in some ways its a great success but it will never topple wow and honest FFXIV is shaping up to out do GW2.
Random Internet Guy decides Lady Gaga is good or bad based on what...?
She might not be my thing, but I'm not going to be stupid and say she isn't good when she obviously has something going for her in terms of music and presentation.
I'd argue she is both good AND successful. If you want to talk successful but not good, we can cart out the various American Idol singers: they don't write, produce, or choreography any of their stuff. They're just canaries. But Gaga does the whole act on her own. Only a fool would say she's not good, regardless of how much one likes or dislikes her aesthetics.
And if you want good but not successful, look for random street performers...
But you don't have to be one or the other. Gaga proves the point of both being an option. And good does not mean everyone is going to like your style.
Which is where we can come back to GW2.
Successful without a doubt - the only western made MMO other than WoW that's been doing well and growing in size (whereas WoW is actually declining, but still of a size where unless crazy happens, it will be a success for years to come).
Good? Its got:
solid independently made content
three fully developed game models
a variety of ways to play within each model
constant updates to keep players interested, resulting in an ever changing world
a clear vision for the style it desires that it has managed to stick to
a deeply rich lore that has inspired a lot of fan art and fan fiction
highly thematic art style that creates a unique experience and strong brand loyalty.
three supporting novels
numerous fan blogs, podcasts, and videocasts covering it every week.
a growing eSport presence (after initially dropping the ball here).
evocative music that gives the game its own mood.
highly sticky play experience for those within its target demographic.
- Like the choices made for these things or not, that they have met them is a sign the thing is good.
Comments
Its not on par with Rift and LOTRO (assuming you mean in terms of population). Its somewhere between EvE and WoW. Its a success, get over it.
And *all* games are an alternative to WoW. The fact that *lots* of people play GW2 means that for some it certainly is an alternative.
No game will ever reach the heights WoW reached, none will probably even come halfway. i think we are still at least 5 or 6 years away from WoW coming down to the pack even.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
Justin Beiber is also a success.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
There are strict definitions of success that are relevant to the industry and that is the rate of return, opportunity cost, etc..
A lot of people have brought this up, yet it's conveniently ignored and eschewed in favor of bullshit.
It would be much more interesting to find out what the net profit and rate of return of GW2 was, because it is the best indicator of not only the lifespan of GW2, but what future games will be like.
^Doogie has it
I cannot fathom how you people could even come up with arguments like you have here. Successful? Yes it is! Popular? Yes is is! Liked by tons? Yes it is!!
What are you arguing about?!?!?!
MMOGOD?!?!
Nope....
But a TON of us really like it....get over yourselves.
I unno, it's a nice game and I think it has great combat and graphics. Interesting mechanics that aren't like most other MMOs out there....Really neat races too. I like it, think it's a successful piece of art. I don't know why people gripe and moan and whinge but to each their own?
Floats my boat though! No alcohol required even!
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lets dumb this up so everyone understands
GW2 is the whore of mmorpg's, everyone knows it, most have been in there, but after used it a couple times it gets boring.
(i'm sorry if i can't say whore)
Guild Wars 2 is definitely a success,there's no doubt there..
It just didnt live up to the hype it and its fans generated.
Well, there are plenty of us that think it's more than lived up to the hype as well, so once again we have differing opinions at play.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Yup.
It's not for everyone and it's not perfect.
But honestly, I refuse to P2P anything after GW2.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
I´ve been playing since open Beta...and i simply love this game!
I´m now leveling a Guardian and having lots of fun! For me GW2 is exactly what i was expecting & looking for!
And with all the constant free updates & events there is no time to get get bored! Plus i´m in a very social & active guild and that helps too. For me is the biggest suscess since vanilla WoW.
Never ever before a MMO got me hooked for over a year since wow,long time ago...and it looks to me that´s not going to change anytime soon
If you want an objective measurement of GW2's success. Ask Arenanet if GW2 is a financial success. Meaning if the revenue is as they were expecting or even exceeds it.
All other criteria you make up as player whether a MMO is a success, are highly subjective and only meaningful to yourself. So I suggest to keep it simple. Play the game you like instead of worrying if some game is a success or not. It is not as if it makes it more fun to play if it is. And it is also not your achievement if it is a success. Games are also not sports clubs to root for and defend like the OP does.
Did gw2 turn a decent profit? Yes
But to me profit =! success. From a business pov there are arguments you can make for that, but i am talking from the pov of a gamer, who wants to play good games. Let's look at the marketing and advertising that the devs themselves did.
Did the game live up to the manifesto? No... more than 50% of the philosophies in the manifesto are not clearly and concisely applied to the actual game, simply put, things do not work the same way they insinuated that they would in the manifesto.
Did the game give WoW a run for it's money or surpass it like Mike Obrien's goals were? Not even close... so it came up short here too.
So it is a success in that it sold 3 million boxes, the retention rate is unknown but based on various activity indicators and testimony I think it's safe to say there are more people disenfranchised with the game, than those who love it. If you think otherwise you are living under a rock, and probably just run in very pro-gw2 circles instead of listening to all sorts of gamers.
But if we are just talking about boxes sold, than diablo3 is one of the most successful games ever made. As gamers we know that d3 fell short and hemorrhaged players though.
So we have a game, that failed to live up to many of its big promises, and didn't achieve what the head honcho behind anet wanted it to, and by MANY forms of measurement, has lost a large amount of active players. Is that a success? To me personally it is not.
The problem with threads like these are that people who enjoy the game, have a really difficult time considering alternate points of view, they think that because they enjoy the game, everyone else has to or everyone else is wrong, and they can't fully understand or analyze the flaws of the game, because they are so biased.
It's sorta like those guys that claim gw2 is just the chess of mmo pvp, when in reality it is really dumbed down pvp that barely anyone cares about, and has a terrible competitive community as shown by how little interest there is on things like twitch.tv. Simply put there is a correlation between how popular a game is, and how many people want to watch people streaming that particular game, when GW2 was huge (near launch) there were a lot of people watching it, now that so many players have quit, it is astonishingly unpopular for streams. Anet has never been shy about popularity milestones, so it's pretty obvious the game hasn't been growing, if they had tons of active players they would mention it too, because it is good PR and advertising.
Also even if it is a success from a purely business pov, it isn't quite as simple as how much revenue it made. Anet had a brand, with the launch of GW2 they have strengthened and weakened their brand to different types of players. I think overall gw2 left the loyal gw1 fans very unhappy, and it didn't really have staying power with most seasoned mmo players. This will impact their future appeal. Sort of like with d3 blizzard did a ton of damage to their brand name, now in blizzard's case they have so much momentum that they can get away with it. I don't really think anet is in that position. Unless anet comes up with something completely mindblowing, their next game probably won't even do as well as gw2, because they have done quite a bit of damage, they made too many bold claims, and failed to deliver to a very noticeable extent.
tldr; gw2 turned a profit, there are more strong indicators that the population has dropped dramatically, than there are of it increasing, it failed to deliver on much of what anet promised.
TLDR; GW2
He is not talking about that kind of hype but claims by fans that GW2 will take MMO world by storm, kill WOW and change MMO landscape for ever. He is talking about hype witch had some actual effects on MMO genre as large. GW2 came and went and MMO world is still going on its own pace. GW2 arrived with a small blip on radar rather than a huge bang.
Even head honcho of Anet Mr Mike O Brian claimed they will beat WOW and become number one. It was all part of over confidence and hype machinery that fell on its face.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Did i say its a failure? you know that just couple of pages back you were quoting me and supporting me when i was saying it isn't a failure by an sense of the word? what makes you think i would call it a faluire now?
What i meant was that just like many other MMOS, it released, many played it...things have gone back to normal, people have moved on and MMO genre is going forward unaffected or being changed drastically by GW2.
Just like many other MMO releases before, it has joined list of all the wannabe 'we want to beat WOW and be number one ' list.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Its still very well populated and being updated constantly.....but there is no denying that less people are active in it today than 6 months ago. Its active player growth has stalled.
GW2 is an awsome and active game, but lets call a spade a spade. It didnt change the MMO landscape, it didnt put any game out of business, and other developrs are still targeting WoW (or something else entirly), not GW2. it succedded in carving out its own niche, but it came up short of "setting a new standard" (you know, what it claims it did in every press release).
Agreed. In fact, I might go so far as to say that at the rate GW2 is going, it might soon usurp WoW as the king of MMORPGs (no, its not there yet, but if it stays the course long enough it might).
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
That won't be hard because by the time GW2 will become king of MMORPGS, WOW will be as old as dust and wither away on its own. But not because it was due to GW2's awesomeness but because it is a very old game.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
If GW2 gained 4million active accounts, and WoW lost 4 million active accounts... they'd be neck and neck, that's ALL it takes fellas.
Also a lil business 101 for you guys, putting more people on a project and changing a lot of philosophies is not usually an indicator of rapid growth, it is usually an indicator of damage control.
Even if you are part of the crowd that dismisses WoW's 8.3 million subs as being mostly from China who login for 5 min a month...though highly exaderated if that is what you believe, they still have 8.3 million active players.
Seeing as how Anet only announces box sales (not unique logins a la Blizz with Diablo 3), we have 3 million box sales. How many of those 3 million do you think login (even for 5 min) a month, this long into its life?
You may need to rethink ALL of your math "fella" lol.
EDIT: 100$ says this will be interprated as me saying GW2 is dead lol
Actually I interpret it as you assuming the game is much healthier than it actually is, fella. By all third party indications the game has lost the majority of it's playerbase. It barely gets viewers on twitch, and other programs used to measure sample sizes of mmo players have also indicated severe drop off in activity. These programs have shown very strong correlation in their data compared to other mmorpgs, it would be silly to just magically assume that with gw2 things are completely different.
Do you honestly think gw2 has more than 400k active players? Let me guess, you think it is closer to 1million or 2million? Even the biggest MMO ever made only has like a 20% retention rate, and that is unusually high for mmos. So I mean using what data we have it looks like my math is actually pretty solid if not a bit too generous to gw2.
Number of active accounts is a tricky thing with a b2p game. I have the game still on HD and now and then click the icon to patch it but I haven't logged in for a long time. Is my account active then? With a p2p game it's easier to do the numbers.
Disclaimer: I think that GW2 is a success but in my opinion it's one of the worst rpg's I've ever played and extremely boring once you hit 80.
I really dont understand why they dont just do like Blizzard did with D3 and announce unique logins. According to Blizz, D3 get 3 million unique logins a month, 1 million unique a day. This is the way all B2P games should be counted, unless there is maybe something to hide, or would be hard to spin.
Random Internet Guy decides Lady Gaga is good or bad based on what...?
She might not be my thing, but I'm not going to be stupid and say she isn't good when she obviously has something going for her in terms of music and presentation.
I'd argue she is both good AND successful. If you want to talk successful but not good, we can cart out the various American Idol singers: they don't write, produce, or choreography any of their stuff. They're just canaries. But Gaga does the whole act on her own. Only a fool would say she's not good, regardless of how much one likes or dislikes her aesthetics.
And if you want good but not successful, look for random street performers...
But you don't have to be one or the other. Gaga proves the point of both being an option. And good does not mean everyone is going to like your style.
Which is where we can come back to GW2.
Successful without a doubt - the only western made MMO other than WoW that's been doing well and growing in size (whereas WoW is actually declining, but still of a size where unless crazy happens, it will be a success for years to come).
Good? Its got:
- Like the choices made for these things or not, that they have met them is a sign the thing is good.