I don't hate PvP, although I'm adverse to being forced to do it, I have rolled PvP characters on every mmo I have ever played.
In every game it works the same. Yes there are some slight differences, but generally speaking this is mmo PvP.
You enter the area and buff up for battle (if you are in a pvp server you are already there, so can skip that step). You run out of the group staging area in your mass of people and run toward the objective, be it a flag, opposing city, helpless noob, whatever.
You pick out your target out of the mass of the other group, sometimes strategically if there is a healer, if it is some noob then target selection not a big deal. You bonsai or nuke your target, because everyone is a dps or a healer, what is the point of a tank.
The combat is intense button mashing for 4 seconds, 6-8 seconds if you have a healer paying attention, then either you of the other sap dies and goes to the bind point. If you live, you target someone else and repeat this step. If you die, you run right back and do the same thing again.
The problem is, what you've just described is the Battlegrounds type of pvp you see in most MMOs these days. In that case, you're right, it gets old pretty quick. When I first encountered open world pvp, I hated it also. I'm not a hardcore gamer who plays 8 hours a day and can always stay ahead of the curve. However, I grew to enjoy the pvp aspect, and when I tried newer games without open world pvp, I realized just how important it was.
When I think of open world pvp, I think of my 6+ year experience in Lineage 2. I remember countless battles that could last hours. The biggest difference is that pvp can happen when you don't expect it. And it makes a huge difference. The game is much more thrilling and suspenseful when anyone you come across could decide to kill you at any moment. Likewise, stronger bonds are formed when people choose to help you out instead of killing you. You don't get that type of experience in games where the only reason people are helping/killing you at a particular point in time is because it's their only option. Battleground/instanced pvp that is disconnected from pve gets old quickly because it's essentially meaningless. Open world pvp is much more significant, because it ties into the pve aspect of the game and affects everyone. When valuable resources, items, character levels and the like are on the line, it's far less boring than fight, die, respawn, repeat until the instance ends or you get bored and turn pvp "off".
It is fun in short bursts, but this is why most pvp games get some pve content, AoC, or die, APB. Every game, every time, just like this. How long until it gets super boring? 10 times? 100? 500,000? It is still the same process, only the scenery changes.
I could say the exact opposite. This is why pve games need pvp content. How many times can you repeat the same kill x of y quests, or do the same dungeon or raid before it gets super boring? My answer to that question is, not long. Artificial Intelligence in games has not yet reached a point where it can provide any real challenge or variety. Oftentimes the scenery doesn't even change, and the dialogue is all recycled which no one bothers to read anyway because they don't have to.
The only real longevity a game can maintain is through pvp content. Pve cannot keep up with the playerbase. The beautiful thing about strong pvp content in an open pvp environment is that the game and it's landscape is ever-evolving as a result of the community itself. Huge alliances are formed and broken due to actions of people involved, and politics and diplomacy are an ever-present and ever-important part of the game. Someone did something that really pissed you off? Declare war on his entire guild, slow their pve progression to a halt and do everything you can to make them regret what they did. You can't do that sort of thing when you can't attack someone because the game simply doesn't let you, or the game provides some nonsensical arbitrary barrier like factions. Players should create the factions themselves.
If people have the choice to avoid pvp whenever they want, then they will simply avoid it when it doesn't go their way. This makes it meaningless in the big picture of the game's landscape. Thus, the game's long-standing appeal suffers when you're stuck with doing the same recycled pve content over and over.
I don't hate PvP, I just hate the cocky kids who ruin it for the rest of us with their bragging and insults. I also hate the high level people who sit around and camp low levels. Don't you have anything better to do than farm people who stand no chance?
If you find yourself wondering why people won't flag and fight you in a game, look at yourselves. Instead of being an elitist prick, just accept that you killed someone and move on instead of making that person feel like crap.
I actually like pvp....when I choose to participate. That is why I will only roll on a PVE server of any game. If the game has no PVE servers, I don't play it. I like the leveling process and open pvp gets in the way. End game, I play pvp matches, battlegrounds or arena, whatever the game has, but it's my choice to enter it.
Originally posted by Shmackpappy I just prefer PVE that's all. I'm not sure why "I just don't like it" is not reason enough. I don't hate PVP it's just not what I enjoy doing so I will not play a game with forced PVP.
I understand you just don't like pvp. I asked why.
As I have said earlier. There has never been an mmorpg that has forced you to pvp, and no player has ever been forced to pvp. You have always had choice.
I'm not sure how this has even generated so much discussion. It's just what I prefer. Some like coffee and some prefer tea. Why? Who cares?
To the OP, this isn't an insult or demeaning, but lets be honest, if you don't get why some people hate PVP I don't think anything anyone says here is going to help you.
A clue however, its not 95% of PVP'ers that have caused all those people to dislike PVP so much, and there is a long long history of broken and low population MMORPG,s out there that stand as testament to real or perceived problems of PVP in MMORPGs.
People singular are OK but put them into a massive crowd then at the same time make them all anonymous, a 1000 different ways of asshattyness (real word, I made it) well manifest itself within 10 mins in an uncontrolled environment, the Lord of the Flies effect at the very least.
I absolutely love PVP, it is the only reason I am playing MMORPGs, to gear up massmurder peoples avatars. If I wanted to play for the story I'd be playing singleplayer games. PVE just cant entertain.
That said, massmurder does not mean slaughtering lowlevels or such, just people you stalk for a while before jumping them at the right moment. Sadly most games these days are so much games and so little world. Prefered the days when you actually gained something from killing others and people actually took note and started hunting you. The adrenaline when you had a bunch of people in your heels with a ton of good loot and they all want you killed preferably a few times over.
Those games are gone though and so are the PK vs PKK (anti pks).
Actually I think it's tha fact that PvP is implemented badly in most games.
The only true PvP games I can think of are counterstrike and fighting games. Where both players are on an even playing field and no access to external power.
MMOs or modern shooters on the other hand allow veteran players to gain much more gear allowing them to have much more choice over tactics. So when you PvP now it's a matter of getting the best gear and not getting the best skills.
TLDR Counterstrike is true pvp. MMO pvp is just for fun.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Is it because -
You lose a lot?
You can't get better?
It's scary?
To much adrenalin?
It makes you angry?
PvP'rs are mean?
Outside of "I just don't like it" which is not an explanation, this is what I ask myself when I hear someone say "I wish there was no pvp"
I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works.
Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.
Update - Top reasons
Lack of time
Mean player/ Nasty attitudes
Not a competitive person
OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself.
There's some really good stuff in here Thank you to those who are giving their time.
edit- they red text is not meant to demean. It's an observation, a true observation. If we reach the heart of the problem maybe it can be fixed. I made the observation text smaller and changed it back to white from red, for sake of civility.
Underlying Issue -The main cause of resentment seems to be bad game designs, with no risk of punishment for the griefer. In the scenarios given people are getting killed/camped with no recourse, and the camper has no fear of punishment. Who would want that? Come on devs you can do better!
While I agree that PvP systems can be improved to get more involved the main point is:
People just don't want to PvP
The reason? It doesn't matter and they don't owe you an explaination. The main problem here is that the lack of wanting to PvP is seen as a problem that needs to be fixed. It doesn't. They aren't too scared, too intimidated or too shy to PvP and whenever it's framed that way it honestly makes the commenter look very foolish in my eyes at least. There are some people, I was one of them, that always stayed away from PvP and it had to do with a difference in goal while playing MMOs... simple as that. The PvPers tend to be the ones attaching all of the drama to it and it's not needed.
I really do appreciate you trying to make PvP better and the end result could be better for all. It's just incorrect to assume there is a problem with people who don't want to PvP.
Actually I think it's tha fact that PvP is implemented badly in most games.
The only true PvP games I can think of are counterstrike and fighting games. Where both players are on an even playing field and no access to external power.
MMOs or modern shooters on the other hand allow veteran players to gain much more gear allowing them to have much more choice over tactics. So when you PvP now it's a matter of getting the best gear and not getting the best skills.
TLDR Counterstrike is true pvp. MMO pvp is just for fun.
Here you got it all wrong, not everyone enjoys esport. Esport is one kind of PVP remember though that there are many kinds, warfare, market pvp (in case of EVE for example), there is the open world PVP for spots/areas and there is the ganking and PKing. Ofc there are many more ways but you can't say one way is right and the other is not. Tell EVE players that their PVP is just for fun and not real and see what they got to say about that.
most mmos in open world pvp so called pvp servers when you gank and or kill other player or faction player dont give you nothing but laugh maybe on your side and anger on the one you ganked and killed. so if there would be greater rewards to encounter with enemy player im sure there would be lot more that going on in games than it is now and people actually would not be so scared entering the battle.
also on edit note : pvp open worldy with mass of players should also not give so much greater rewards than going solo or duo, also that way it removes being overrun by pack of players while you take a pee.
Originally posted by faxnadu most mmos in open world pvp so called pvp servers when you gank and or kill other player or faction player dont give you nothing but laugh maybe on your side and anger on the one you ganked and killed. so if there would be greater rewards to encounter with enemy player im sure there would be lot more that going on in games than it is now and people actually would not be so scared entering the battle.
That is also a problem though, it could easily be abused if there was some extra reward coming out of noones pocket, first you would probably need a sink for it then you would also need to make sure it doesn't get abused. Kill farming etc.
I can see how PVP doesn't attract some people but I also think most of the people who doesn't enjoy it never saw some real good PVP and also there is the problem that everyone that PVPs tries to be so cookiecutter so new players hardly have a chance.
Originally posted by faxnadu most mmos in open world pvp so called pvp servers when you gank and or kill other player or faction player dont give you nothing but laugh maybe on your side and anger on the one you ganked and killed. so if there would be greater rewards to encounter with enemy player im sure there would be lot more that going on in games than it is now and people actually would not be so scared entering the battle.
That is also a problem though, it could easily be abused if there was some extra reward coming out of noones pocket, first you would probably need a sink for it then you would also need to make sure it doesn't get abused. Kill farming etc.
time limit. let the weekend be all open for whatever pvp encounters on enemy scenarios and weeks be like preparing and those so much love for questing and pve can do it, one example.
Originally posted by faxnadu most mmos in open world pvp so called pvp servers when you gank and or kill other player or faction player dont give you nothing but laugh maybe on your side and anger on the one you ganked and killed. so if there would be greater rewards to encounter with enemy player im sure there would be lot more that going on in games than it is now and people actually would not be so scared entering the battle.
That is also a problem though, it could easily be abused if there was some extra reward coming out of noones pocket, first you would probably need a sink for it then you would also need to make sure it doesn't get abused. Kill farming etc.
time limit. let the weekend be all open for whatever pvp encounters on enemy scenarios and weeks be like preparing and those so much love for questing and pve can do it, one example.
Well that is not what I mean, there will be issues with killfarming and other things still if there is a reward popping out of air for killing someone. If the reward comes out of the losers pocket it will scare away a lot of players.
and thats what i say with time limit, let there be issues with kill farming cause thats what the perioid inside time limit its all about.
otherwise trying to implement something new on open world pvp type of games you cant and its just same o and with battlegrounds
No no no you don't see the problem here, only way to not get this problem is if you have superactive GMs like planetside. Altough I kind of like the idea of a timelimit, pretty interesting.
EDIT: If you want I can try to explain better what I mean by killfarming.
Actually I think it's tha fact that PvP is implemented badly in most games.
The only true PvP games I can think of are counterstrike and fighting games. Where both players are on an even playing field and no access to external power.
MMOs or modern shooters on the other hand allow veteran players to gain much more gear allowing them to have much more choice over tactics. So when you PvP now it's a matter of getting the best gear and not getting the best skills.
TLDR Counterstrike is true pvp. MMO pvp is just for fun.
Here you got it all wrong, not everyone enjoys esport. Esport is one kind of PVP remember though that there are many kinds, warfare, market pvp (in case of EVE for example), there is the open world PVP for spots/areas and there is the ganking and PKing. Ofc there are many more ways but you can't say one way is right and the other is not. Tell EVE players that their PVP is just for fun and not real and see what they got to say about that.
It's not that you can't take them seriously. I mean EVE is a good example because of the years of endless balancing to achieve what they envisioned. I enjoy GW1 pvp a lot because of the deck building aspects of it as I'm sure many other people enjoy too. At the same time I can't hold it to the same level as pure skill as opposed to skill + builds + gear. GW1 still had to balance for years after the game came out before it was at a good place. It was only when it reached this state that I would say that PvP is good. It wasn't bad before that, it just wasn't balanced.
GW1 provided a really good system where gear effected your skills to a small degree and it relied far more on your builds / placement / gameplay.
I think the ultimate point of difference I keep mentioning is PvP vs balanced PvP. I think I just prefer balanced PvP over gear based.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
It's not like you die IRL. It's a game sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Is it because -
You lose a lot?
You can't get better?
It's scary?
To much adrenalin?
It makes you angry?
PvP'rs are mean?
Outside of "I just don't like it" which is not an explanation, this is what I ask myself when I hear someone say "I wish there was no pvp"
I mean to me PVP is the pinnacle off multiplayer gaming. You test your skills against mine. We use what we found in the world and see if it works.
Why, please tell me. Maybe developers have done studies and stuff, but I haven't, I really don't get it.
Update - Top reasons
Lack of time
Mean player/ Nasty attitudes
Not a competitive person
OBSERVATION - Every scenario given by those against PvP involves being the person that gets killed. Check it out for yourself.
There's some really good stuff in here Thank you to those who are giving their time.
edit- they red text is not meant to demean. It's an observation, a true observation. If we reach the heart of the problem maybe it can be fixed. I made the observation text smaller and changed it back to white from red, for sake of civility.
Underlying Issue -The main cause of resentment seems to be bad game designs, with no risk of punishment for the griefer. In the scenarios given people are getting killed/camped with no recourse, and the camper has no fear of punishment. Who would want that? Come on devs you can do better!
Khm, do you really thing there must be some explanation? If somebody simply does not like pizza, hamburger, fruit .... do we really need some psichic expert to find solution?
Besides this I do not like because I'm kind of person when some "enemy" player is in truble with i.e. some npc beast I will HELP him, not JUMP ON HIS THROAT. This is one big reason, maybe there are others.
I however do not hate PVP, just find it completely uninteresting, played battlegrounds and alike for some time .... but I prefer enjoying what PVE offer and experiment same with various alts as I'm altholic.
Why maybe some players hate pvp is because is very hard to have game that is good in pvp AND pve. At the end happen many times game sucks in both. Maybe wow is closest thing with fun pvp and not crippled because of this pve.
About hate ... just look on forums ... I guess 99% if constant complaining and screaming of PVP-ers balance this, balance that, blah blah blah ...
From this perspective maybe it would better for all if games would be PVP *OR* PVE.
I don't hate Pvp at all. I do not like PvP all the time. I Pvp for a goal. Maybe you own the sector of space that I want to setup in or just a jackass. Either way I pvp for a reason special to me. I do not understand the arena/battleground type of Pvp as there doesn't seem to be a real goal beside wracking up kill count for bragging rights and more gear grind to do the before. Sad thing none even remembers your name when you kill them since there is zero penalty to losing. Don't like call of duty either so it may be the reason why battlegrounds aren't my cup of tea since it reminds me of that deathmatch no-penalty style of play. I like the FFA open world pvp style with some safer zones for pve activities when you just want to chill. I say safer because I don't think that in a Pvp focused game that you ever be completely safe unless you are offline. An element of danger is what drives these games imo.
Present: Current offerings are low quality or soloable
Past:AoC, DCUO, FFXI,FFXIV 1.0 and ARR,WoW,Fallen Earth, Tabula Rasa, TSW, SWTOR, Rift, Aion, WAR, Darkfall, STO, CoH/CoV, GW2, Diaspora, EQ2, DDO, and a bunch of forgettable ftp games
1) I am a noob so I lose (what little I try) 99% of the time. Losing is no fun.
2) I hate forced pvp. I won't play games that force pvp. I want to fight the environment not other players.
3) No more strong pvp healers. Alterac Valley of TBC is gone. This will sound contradictory but my favorite time in MMOs was in WOW in TBC. I played my Alliance Druid as a healer in Alterac Valley hour after hour after hour. I loved the team play (back then there were a lot fewer rectums) and being able to make a REAL difference with healing. Now every mmo that I have tried discourages pvp healers or, in the case of the action combat mmos, make playing a healer more frustration than fun.
Originally posted by Cephus404 Originally posted by AdalwulffOriginally posted by free2playNobody hates PvP. People don't like forced PvP. It's a shoddy way to throttle weak PvE content. Having to stop and entertain some jughead when all you logged in to do was chop some trees or farm some hides.
How can it be forced PvP when you bought the game voluntarily?This thread isn't about any particular game, it's about why people hate PvP in general. I agree, most people who hate PvP would never buy a PvP-centric game.
There are some flaws in the premise of this thread, and this is one of them. The number of people who "just don't like PvP" is a small number of people. The majority of people do like PvP, as evidenced by the popularity of PvP games, and MMORPGs that include some form of PvP, which is pretty much all of them.
It would be far more accurate to say that the majority of people do not like "always on" PvP, regardless of whether it's faction based or FFA. A better question might be, "What could be done with 'always on' PvP to make it palatable or even desirable to the people who do not like it?"
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Actually I think it's tha fact that PvP is implemented badly in most games.
The only true PvP games I can think of are counterstrike and fighting games. Where both players are on an even playing field and no access to external power.
MMOs or modern shooters on the other hand allow veteran players to gain much more gear allowing them to have much more choice over tactics. So when you PvP now it's a matter of getting the best gear and not getting the best skills.
TLDR Counterstrike is true pvp. MMO pvp is just for fun.
Here you got it all wrong, not everyone enjoys esport. Esport is one kind of PVP remember though that there are many kinds, warfare, market pvp (in case of EVE for example), there is the open world PVP for spots/areas and there is the ganking and PKing. Ofc there are many more ways but you can't say one way is right and the other is not. Tell EVE players that their PVP is just for fun and not real and see what they got to say about that.
It's not that you can't take them seriously. I mean EVE is a good example because of the years of endless balancing to achieve what they envisioned. I enjoy GW1 pvp a lot because of the deck building aspects of it as I'm sure many other people enjoy too. At the same time I can't hold it to the same level as pure skill as opposed to skill + builds + gear. GW1 still had to balance for years after the game came out before it was at a good place. It was only when it reached this state that I would say that PvP is good. It wasn't bad before that, it just wasn't balanced.
GW1 provided a really good system where gear effected your skills to a small degree and it relied far more on your builds / placement / gameplay.
I think the ultimate point of difference I keep mentioning is PvP vs balanced PvP. I think I just prefer balanced PvP over gear based.
Well it doesn't have to be gear based if its not balanced and the other way around, that is a very odd statement. Also yes I used to play GW1 PVP quite a lot with my friends, it was great esport but I prefer games with uneven floor. A world rather than a sport.
A good designed game with PvP must cater to all play styles, including people who do not want to participate in PvP, or who only want to participate when they feel like it. That's why poorly designed game like Darkfail or Mortal Online will remain tiny niche crap (not to mention the poor production quality of those games of course).
There's a reason why UO and EVE are the two only successful sandbox games with PvP... because both aren't gank fests, they both give players choices. UO with a 100% PvE world, and EVE with different levels of security. The games work because all play styles can enjoy them, and not only the tiny minority of gankers.
You dont know Lineage 2, one of the most sucessful mmos. And Archeage is coming soon too.
Comments
Two boxers meeting in a ring are testing their skills against each other. One boxer attacking the other while he's taking a shit is not.
The problem is, what you've just described is the Battlegrounds type of pvp you see in most MMOs these days. In that case, you're right, it gets old pretty quick. When I first encountered open world pvp, I hated it also. I'm not a hardcore gamer who plays 8 hours a day and can always stay ahead of the curve. However, I grew to enjoy the pvp aspect, and when I tried newer games without open world pvp, I realized just how important it was.
When I think of open world pvp, I think of my 6+ year experience in Lineage 2. I remember countless battles that could last hours. The biggest difference is that pvp can happen when you don't expect it. And it makes a huge difference. The game is much more thrilling and suspenseful when anyone you come across could decide to kill you at any moment. Likewise, stronger bonds are formed when people choose to help you out instead of killing you. You don't get that type of experience in games where the only reason people are helping/killing you at a particular point in time is because it's their only option. Battleground/instanced pvp that is disconnected from pve gets old quickly because it's essentially meaningless. Open world pvp is much more significant, because it ties into the pve aspect of the game and affects everyone. When valuable resources, items, character levels and the like are on the line, it's far less boring than fight, die, respawn, repeat until the instance ends or you get bored and turn pvp "off".
I could say the exact opposite. This is why pve games need pvp content. How many times can you repeat the same kill x of y quests, or do the same dungeon or raid before it gets super boring? My answer to that question is, not long. Artificial Intelligence in games has not yet reached a point where it can provide any real challenge or variety. Oftentimes the scenery doesn't even change, and the dialogue is all recycled which no one bothers to read anyway because they don't have to.
The only real longevity a game can maintain is through pvp content. Pve cannot keep up with the playerbase. The beautiful thing about strong pvp content in an open pvp environment is that the game and it's landscape is ever-evolving as a result of the community itself. Huge alliances are formed and broken due to actions of people involved, and politics and diplomacy are an ever-present and ever-important part of the game. Someone did something that really pissed you off? Declare war on his entire guild, slow their pve progression to a halt and do everything you can to make them regret what they did. You can't do that sort of thing when you can't attack someone because the game simply doesn't let you, or the game provides some nonsensical arbitrary barrier like factions. Players should create the factions themselves.
If people have the choice to avoid pvp whenever they want, then they will simply avoid it when it doesn't go their way. This makes it meaningless in the big picture of the game's landscape. Thus, the game's long-standing appeal suffers when you're stuck with doing the same recycled pve content over and over.
My 2 cents.
I don't hate PvP, I just hate the cocky kids who ruin it for the rest of us with their bragging and insults. I also hate the high level people who sit around and camp low levels. Don't you have anything better to do than farm people who stand no chance?
If you find yourself wondering why people won't flag and fight you in a game, look at yourselves. Instead of being an elitist prick, just accept that you killed someone and move on instead of making that person feel like crap.
I'm not sure how this has even generated so much discussion. It's just what I prefer. Some like coffee and some prefer tea. Why? Who cares?
To the OP, this isn't an insult or demeaning, but lets be honest, if you don't get why some people hate PVP I don't think anything anyone says here is going to help you.
A clue however, its not 95% of PVP'ers that have caused all those people to dislike PVP so much, and there is a long long history of broken and low population MMORPG,s out there that stand as testament to real or perceived problems of PVP in MMORPGs.
People singular are OK but put them into a massive crowd then at the same time make them all anonymous, a 1000 different ways of asshattyness (real word, I made it) well manifest itself within 10 mins in an uncontrolled environment, the Lord of the Flies effect at the very least.
I play MMOs for the gear grind and raiding.
I absolutely love PVP, it is the only reason I am playing MMORPGs, to gear up massmurder peoples avatars. If I wanted to play for the story I'd be playing singleplayer games. PVE just cant entertain.
That said, massmurder does not mean slaughtering lowlevels or such, just people you stalk for a while before jumping them at the right moment. Sadly most games these days are so much games and so little world. Prefered the days when you actually gained something from killing others and people actually took note and started hunting you. The adrenaline when you had a bunch of people in your heels with a ton of good loot and they all want you killed preferably a few times over.
Those games are gone though and so are the PK vs PKK (anti pks).
Actually I think it's tha fact that PvP is implemented badly in most games.
The only true PvP games I can think of are counterstrike and fighting games. Where both players are on an even playing field and no access to external power.
MMOs or modern shooters on the other hand allow veteran players to gain much more gear allowing them to have much more choice over tactics. So when you PvP now it's a matter of getting the best gear and not getting the best skills.
TLDR Counterstrike is true pvp. MMO pvp is just for fun.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
While I agree that PvP systems can be improved to get more involved the main point is:
People just don't want to PvP
The reason? It doesn't matter and they don't owe you an explaination. The main problem here is that the lack of wanting to PvP is seen as a problem that needs to be fixed. It doesn't. They aren't too scared, too intimidated or too shy to PvP and whenever it's framed that way it honestly makes the commenter look very foolish in my eyes at least. There are some people, I was one of them, that always stayed away from PvP and it had to do with a difference in goal while playing MMOs... simple as that. The PvPers tend to be the ones attaching all of the drama to it and it's not needed.
I really do appreciate you trying to make PvP better and the end result could be better for all. It's just incorrect to assume there is a problem with people who don't want to PvP.
Here you got it all wrong, not everyone enjoys esport. Esport is one kind of PVP remember though that there are many kinds, warfare, market pvp (in case of EVE for example), there is the open world PVP for spots/areas and there is the ganking and PKing. Ofc there are many more ways but you can't say one way is right and the other is not. Tell EVE players that their PVP is just for fun and not real and see what they got to say about that.
Let's be honest people.. most people who do not like pvp is because they are bad at it. Period.. they'll never admit though..
If i was horrible at it id hate it also, but im not...
most mmos in open world pvp so called pvp servers when you gank and or kill other player or faction player dont give you nothing but laugh maybe on your side and anger on the one you ganked and killed. so if there would be greater rewards to encounter with enemy player im sure there would be lot more that going on in games than it is now and people actually would not be so scared entering the battle.
also on edit note : pvp open worldy with mass of players should also not give so much greater rewards than going solo or duo, also that way it removes being overrun by pack of players while you take a pee.
That is also a problem though, it could easily be abused if there was some extra reward coming out of noones pocket, first you would probably need a sink for it then you would also need to make sure it doesn't get abused. Kill farming etc.
I can see how PVP doesn't attract some people but I also think most of the people who doesn't enjoy it never saw some real good PVP and also there is the problem that everyone that PVPs tries to be so cookiecutter so new players hardly have a chance.
time limit. let the weekend be all open for whatever pvp encounters on enemy scenarios and weeks be like preparing and those so much love for questing and pve can do it, one example.
Well that is not what I mean, there will be issues with killfarming and other things still if there is a reward popping out of air for killing someone. If the reward comes out of the losers pocket it will scare away a lot of players.
and thats what i say with time limit, let there be issues with kill farming cause thats what the perioid inside time limit its all about.
otherwise trying to implement something new on open world pvp type of games you cant and its just same o and with battlegrounds
No no no you don't see the problem here, only way to not get this problem is if you have superactive GMs like planetside. Altough I kind of like the idea of a timelimit, pretty interesting.
EDIT: If you want I can try to explain better what I mean by killfarming.
It's not that you can't take them seriously. I mean EVE is a good example because of the years of endless balancing to achieve what they envisioned. I enjoy GW1 pvp a lot because of the deck building aspects of it as I'm sure many other people enjoy too. At the same time I can't hold it to the same level as pure skill as opposed to skill + builds + gear. GW1 still had to balance for years after the game came out before it was at a good place. It was only when it reached this state that I would say that PvP is good. It wasn't bad before that, it just wasn't balanced.
GW1 provided a really good system where gear effected your skills to a small degree and it relied far more on your builds / placement / gameplay.
I think the ultimate point of difference I keep mentioning is PvP vs balanced PvP. I think I just prefer balanced PvP over gear based.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Khm, do you really thing there must be some explanation? If somebody simply does not like pizza, hamburger, fruit .... do we really need some psichic expert to find solution?
Besides this I do not like because I'm kind of person when some "enemy" player is in truble with i.e. some npc beast I will HELP him, not JUMP ON HIS THROAT. This is one big reason, maybe there are others.
I however do not hate PVP, just find it completely uninteresting, played battlegrounds and alike for some time .... but I prefer enjoying what PVE offer and experiment same with various alts as I'm altholic.
Why maybe some players hate pvp is because is very hard to have game that is good in pvp AND pve. At the end happen many times game sucks in both. Maybe wow is closest thing with fun pvp and not crippled because of this pve.
About hate ... just look on forums ... I guess 99% if constant complaining and screaming of PVP-ers balance this, balance that, blah blah blah ...
From this perspective maybe it would better for all if games would be PVP *OR* PVE.
Current PC Build
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Present: Current offerings are low quality or soloable
Past:AoC, DCUO, FFXI,FFXIV 1.0 and ARR,WoW,Fallen Earth, Tabula Rasa, TSW, SWTOR, Rift, Aion, WAR, Darkfall, STO, CoH/CoV, GW2, Diaspora, EQ2, DDO, and a bunch of forgettable ftp games
Why?
1) I am a noob so I lose (what little I try) 99% of the time. Losing is no fun.
2) I hate forced pvp. I won't play games that force pvp. I want to fight the environment not other players.
3) No more strong pvp healers. Alterac Valley of TBC is gone. This will sound contradictory but my favorite time in MMOs was in WOW in TBC. I played my Alliance Druid as a healer in Alterac Valley hour after hour after hour. I loved the team play (back then there were a lot fewer rectums) and being able to make a REAL difference with healing. Now every mmo that I have tried discourages pvp healers or, in the case of the action combat mmos, make playing a healer more frustration than fun.
This thread isn't about any particular game, it's about why people hate PvP in general. I agree, most people who hate PvP would never buy a PvP-centric game.
There are some flaws in the premise of this thread, and this is one of them. The number of people who "just don't like PvP" is a small number of people. The majority of people do like PvP, as evidenced by the popularity of PvP games, and MMORPGs that include some form of PvP, which is pretty much all of them.
It would be far more accurate to say that the majority of people do not like "always on" PvP, regardless of whether it's faction based or FFA. A better question might be, "What could be done with 'always on' PvP to make it palatable or even desirable to the people who do not like it?"
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well it doesn't have to be gear based if its not balanced and the other way around, that is a very odd statement. Also yes I used to play GW1 PVP quite a lot with my friends, it was great esport but I prefer games with uneven floor. A world rather than a sport.
You dont know Lineage 2, one of the most sucessful mmos. And Archeage is coming soon too.