Originally posted by Magiknight It's has less in common with FFXI.
Thanks for posting this... To all the people who have played Final Fantasy games. They know that each game differed a little bit to the next. That is why the franchise has been a great success. Its a damn shame that they released FFXIV the way they did in 2008.
That being said, I expect it to be different. With all the comments that I have seen up to this point. I have noticed a trend and that is, a lot of people say that it has less in common with FFXI. I posted a video earlier in this particular thread. It shows it does have remnants of the last game. The legendary fighting with a full group working as a well oiled machine to destroy your foes, but I feel that is where most of the similarities will end.
I did play 1.0 with my friends from FFXI. We were able to rally up some of our old friends and continue to fun adventures in the new FFXIV. That said, we all knew based on previous FF titles that this was going to be different. What we DID expect from the game was an adventure with story, running for our lives through new areas, and the sense of accomplishment. All, were gone in 1.0 which we had sworn off the franchise for being a lazy attempt at being an FF game.
In the end, we were not looking for the same game. We were looking for an experience. Something that Square Enix as a whole has been able to do for a very, very, long time. My assumption is that the reason why 1.0 was a failure was because the producers were so arrogant and they thought they could take a crap and call it a game. That said, we being their minions would follow. I personally, am glad they are making a second attempt at making this game. It shows that they don't see us as minions but as fans of a game series that has set the bar for RPG's and MMO's for decades. This is not about WoW and its success, but about your experience with the game and how you experienced that game with friends
Played FF11 for 5 years, and have been playing FF14 since Alpha/Beta - currently in the Realm Reborn Beta with a Level 50 Warrior and a 48 Pugilist.
To compare these games side by side is like comparing a steak to an apple. While both are foods, they accomplish different spectrum's of the same goal. One can be a complete meal, while the other a snack. Anyway, enough with the b.s -
Combat -----------------
FF11 was a time killer. It's combat consisted of everyone being part of a team, utilizing skill chains and managing their agro or they would just flat out die and potentially wipe the party. Each class had their own individual styles and "oh shit buttons" (2 hours). Etc etc...
FF14 is designed from the ground up to work like a traditional, modern day MMO. Yoshi himself has spoke with Blizzard developers and got feedback on how to make it more "Wow/Modern". Expect to see this design running rampant throughout ARR. You have a hot bar, with a series of skills that you use in different situations. At level 50, my Marauder has a 3 skill combo that chains in to itself that will be my primary spam move. The rest of my abilities will be used on occasion depending on the situation. Spamming, or situationally - it seems each class will utilize around 10-13 abilities with a main 1,2,3 type of spam as their go to set.
The speed in FF14, is also greatly increased. Animations are super flashy to the point where Yoshi has already said they will tone them down for Phase 4. Monsters have their own abilities and things, but as a Warrior (Who is a tank mind you) I could easily take on 5 level 49 Goblins without dying. Mobs notify you of their big spells as well, placing a massive circle in the area where they are about to cast an AOE.
In conclusion - there is a major difference between the combat. Even the classes and the job system is completely different. Warrior builds rage more or less, Lancers have jumps but they're weaker than their combo attacks and have a fierce cooldown (3minish). Monks are a lot more active than FF11, utilizing strings of combos and stance swaps to get the most out of their damage. Bards are sub-dps with songs, using a bow to run and gun while supporting their party. The only classes that are roughly the same, are BLM and WHM. They still heal and do damage, but naturally their "kit" is a bit different.
Scale of the World----------
The world is fairly large and it feels open in comparison to 1.0 FF14. However, it doesn't have the same open feel as FF14 with massive sprawling fields inside a "contained" zone. I will say that FF14 is crazy gorgeous. The zones are so much more alive with plant life, rocks and small details that will make you wanna explore those nooks and crannies, even if there isnt shit to be looked at. :P
To Compare quickly - FF11 felt bigger, more open. FF14 is more alive and still gives the illusion of an open world - especially in the Ul'dah area - IMO. Although, I have yet to fully explore the world so keep that in mind. This is just my initial impression with the zones I've been through.
Crafting -----------
Haven't tried it, not interested in crafting in MMORPG's. It's always too damn time consuming and boring. From my friends though, its easy - still time consuming - but not in comparison to FF11 and FF14 1.0 crafting. So you should find an easier time with this.
Overall Feel -----------
I love FF and ARR is doing a fan service to everyone who has enjoyed their games. From Magitek Armor, to Gilgamesh and Odin - a Bahamut Dungeon and the Crystal Tower..its FF in all sense of the word. These things alone will make this game at least a partial success. This game is beautiful, wonderfully crafted into a world you can truly get lost in if you can see beyond its faults. However, I am not impressed with the combat. They have made adjustments to make PS3 players comfortable with the system and you can tell just by playing the game - everything from crafting to the way quest turn ins work give a hats off towards the controller in a lot of ways. That's not to say that the game is unplayable with a keyboard and mouse, there are just little things that make you go "Why did they do this?". I feel they sacrificed a complex Combat system for this reason, but I guess time will tell.
The feeling is good. It's a fun, quick and easy MMORPG that will challenge you as you get beyond 30+ if you're a veteran of MMO's. It has some of the best armor designs I've seen, or at least my favorite. The classic job system is there, so thats cool - even if its kinda weirdly designed. The feeling is ..good? Just good. It's not great, its not bad, its above decent...? Its hard to describe. If the combat was better..i'd say different.
In my personal opinion I'm going to be playing this really awesomely crafted with flat combat that isnt bad or good, just there so you can get gear at the end of the day. That's not a feeling I want to have...but maybe some fun changes will be made going into release, who knows?
I hope my opinion gave you some insight, sorry if it felt a little rant-y. I fell in love with the combat of FF11 and 1.0 and it just fell apart for me on a personal level with ARR. Let me know if you have any questions!
I actually despise the "Trash mobs", FFXI was my favorite MMO because every fight wasn't a joke and was tough.
I dislike RAIDING, I find FATES boring, and the removal of NM's insulting. Removing the need for Sneak / Invisible is also just an absurdity.
This "Dash" skill we all have is such bullshit. It basically means you can run away from any Enemy, ever.
They've removed the heart and soul of what made the game unique!
Yoshi-P is one of the worst things to happen to the franchise...and christ, they added Jumping, for absolutely no reason - and now there a ton of invisible walls that break immersion everywhere. It's so awful.
You can walk from major city to major city in 10-15 minutes. So quick, or you can just pay a cheap fee and warp there. Also, boats and airships are instant-travel. No travel-time. YOu just fade to black and appear at the other port. Say goodbye to Pirate attacks, sea-fishing, and a real sense of world.
I really hate how people saying they don' want "Time-wasting mechanics" in a MMORPG...it's a VIDEO GAME, it's ALL A WASTE OF TIME, you are PLAYING THEM -TO- WASTE TIME.
Why, why did the Casuals have to come and ruin our genre? We didn't go to their games and demand they be made more hardcore - no, we said "There is a market for them.", and we left em alone.
But they came to our Market and are destroying it.
I agree with almost everything you say we are pretty much on the same page as well as a lot of my old FF11 friends and family.
FF14 is nothing compared to what FF11 was and from the looks of it it never will. I originally played FF11 because of how different it was from WoW, and a lot of the things people said of the FF11 hate mostly comes from Ex-WoW players who don't want anything closely relating to the game.
I also laugh at people who hate and argue of "time wasting" and agree with that you posted.
I wish or would of liked a more Immersive experience, I enjoy traveling and exploring areas it feels more realistic than just being able to travel to any spot in the game for sake of laziness. This same laziness and expectation of everything being extremely casual and simple is what is leading to the downfall of mmorpg.
I also enjoy being faced with danger at corners specially on places we have never been a part of, the removal of "being scared or being aware of environment" with things like sneak/invisible/etc removes a lot of Immersion from a virtual world.
I do not mind Fate, but making the basis of the game generally on quest spamming instead of monster hunting ruined it a lot for me as well. I for one am sick and tired of the fetching quest whether or not they masked it and called it something else can also be argued but Yoshi himself have stated they made game mostly based on quest spamming similar to every single generic WoW rehash clones that have been made over the past several years. Talk to npc------------>go kill 10 tigers---->come back and get half a level,etc. This alienates party experience as more people will spend the majority of the game just solo mode easily trashing anything in sight with AoE similarly as it was back in 1.0, very few people even bothered to party and only party to spam the guildleves level 1-50. This is extremely boring as I play a online rpg to interact and play with others and not play a single player game.
Lots of people this generation hate socializing and playing with others or even barf at the idea of having a online rpg be mostly concentrated on party play mechanics similar to FF11, and I for one miss it dearly.
And as said before coming from ex ff11 player if you enjoyed everything FF11 stood for and was you will hate FF14 or grow bored with it quick. and yes less in common with FF11 and a crap ton more with WoW. Did you enjoy WoW and any of its generic Easy mode/lazyfest then you will love this game.
P.S- and yes the game is extremely easy compared to ff11, I also wish to end by saying how crappy the new "standard" of focusing on endgame only and not the overall experience. In ff11 I was never pressured to reach max level and had too many things to do throughout all levels, now its just grind as fast as possible to supposidly start playing the real game at the end this is as stupid as saying you watch a entire movie but decide to skip it until the very end to see what the movie was really about ( sorry for crappy analogy) but its more or less the same. People whine about it because they are accustomed and accommodated to have everything handed to them, spend no time thinking and have a zerg spam fest. Heavens forgive them if they actually have to try to read lore, spend some time exploring and Immersing themselves int he game, or have anything challenging.
no offense personally to anyone who likes this style or "standard" but a lot of us Ex-ff11 players do not enjoy them at all and mean no offense to it.
FFXIV is nothing like FFXI not even remotely close other then some of the mobs use the same models. No small NMs to camp for quick cash or good gear. No skillchains or magic burst or anyway for people to work together in the group other then filling out the limit break and having one person use it. The world doesn't even make sense like FFXI did, you can't go from forests to snow mountains to sandy beaches in a linear fashion (you know to make it feel like your really in a open living world). The story line is way to focused on a single player story and doesn't really feel like your part of a mmo but more of a single player game. You also don't have that feeling like your just dropped in the world and its up to you to find out how to make your epic story in this huge world. Also it lost that feeling of joining LS or meeting some friends and they show you the way of the game now the game is so linear like every other game since 2004 you already know what to do and don't need help from other people till endgame. Then again FFXI was based off the old EQ model and this new FFXIV is based of the wow model. So my point is FF is no longer a virtual world but more so a action role playing game.
Comments
Thanks for posting this... To all the people who have played Final Fantasy games. They know that each game differed a little bit to the next. That is why the franchise has been a great success. Its a damn shame that they released FFXIV the way they did in 2008.
That being said, I expect it to be different. With all the comments that I have seen up to this point. I have noticed a trend and that is, a lot of people say that it has less in common with FFXI. I posted a video earlier in this particular thread. It shows it does have remnants of the last game. The legendary fighting with a full group working as a well oiled machine to destroy your foes, but I feel that is where most of the similarities will end.
I did play 1.0 with my friends from FFXI. We were able to rally up some of our old friends and continue to fun adventures in the new FFXIV. That said, we all knew based on previous FF titles that this was going to be different. What we DID expect from the game was an adventure with story, running for our lives through new areas, and the sense of accomplishment. All, were gone in 1.0 which we had sworn off the franchise for being a lazy attempt at being an FF game.
In the end, we were not looking for the same game. We were looking for an experience. Something that Square Enix as a whole has been able to do for a very, very, long time. My assumption is that the reason why 1.0 was a failure was because the producers were so arrogant and they thought they could take a crap and call it a game. That said, we being their minions would follow. I personally, am glad they are making a second attempt at making this game. It shows that they don't see us as minions but as fans of a game series that has set the bar for RPG's and MMO's for decades. This is not about WoW and its success, but about your experience with the game and how you experienced that game with friends
Just my two cents...
Played FF11 for 5 years, and have been playing FF14 since Alpha/Beta - currently in the Realm Reborn Beta with a Level 50 Warrior and a 48 Pugilist.
To compare these games side by side is like comparing a steak to an apple. While both are foods, they accomplish different spectrum's of the same goal. One can be a complete meal, while the other a snack. Anyway, enough with the b.s -
Combat -----------------
FF11 was a time killer. It's combat consisted of everyone being part of a team, utilizing skill chains and managing their agro or they would just flat out die and potentially wipe the party. Each class had their own individual styles and "oh shit buttons" (2 hours). Etc etc...
FF14 is designed from the ground up to work like a traditional, modern day MMO. Yoshi himself has spoke with Blizzard developers and got feedback on how to make it more "Wow/Modern". Expect to see this design running rampant throughout ARR. You have a hot bar, with a series of skills that you use in different situations. At level 50, my Marauder has a 3 skill combo that chains in to itself that will be my primary spam move. The rest of my abilities will be used on occasion depending on the situation. Spamming, or situationally - it seems each class will utilize around 10-13 abilities with a main 1,2,3 type of spam as their go to set.
The speed in FF14, is also greatly increased. Animations are super flashy to the point where Yoshi has already said they will tone them down for Phase 4. Monsters have their own abilities and things, but as a Warrior (Who is a tank mind you) I could easily take on 5 level 49 Goblins without dying. Mobs notify you of their big spells as well, placing a massive circle in the area where they are about to cast an AOE.
In conclusion - there is a major difference between the combat. Even the classes and the job system is completely different. Warrior builds rage more or less, Lancers have jumps but they're weaker than their combo attacks and have a fierce cooldown (3minish). Monks are a lot more active than FF11, utilizing strings of combos and stance swaps to get the most out of their damage. Bards are sub-dps with songs, using a bow to run and gun while supporting their party. The only classes that are roughly the same, are BLM and WHM. They still heal and do damage, but naturally their "kit" is a bit different.
Scale of the World----------
The world is fairly large and it feels open in comparison to 1.0 FF14. However, it doesn't have the same open feel as FF14 with massive sprawling fields inside a "contained" zone. I will say that FF14 is crazy gorgeous. The zones are so much more alive with plant life, rocks and small details that will make you wanna explore those nooks and crannies, even if there isnt shit to be looked at. :P
To Compare quickly - FF11 felt bigger, more open. FF14 is more alive and still gives the illusion of an open world - especially in the Ul'dah area - IMO. Although, I have yet to fully explore the world so keep that in mind. This is just my initial impression with the zones I've been through.
Crafting -----------
Haven't tried it, not interested in crafting in MMORPG's. It's always too damn time consuming and boring. From my friends though, its easy - still time consuming - but not in comparison to FF11 and FF14 1.0 crafting. So you should find an easier time with this.
Overall Feel -----------
I love FF and ARR is doing a fan service to everyone who has enjoyed their games. From Magitek Armor, to Gilgamesh and Odin - a Bahamut Dungeon and the Crystal Tower..its FF in all sense of the word. These things alone will make this game at least a partial success. This game is beautiful, wonderfully crafted into a world you can truly get lost in if you can see beyond its faults. However, I am not impressed with the combat. They have made adjustments to make PS3 players comfortable with the system and you can tell just by playing the game - everything from crafting to the way quest turn ins work give a hats off towards the controller in a lot of ways. That's not to say that the game is unplayable with a keyboard and mouse, there are just little things that make you go "Why did they do this?". I feel they sacrificed a complex Combat system for this reason, but I guess time will tell.
The feeling is good. It's a fun, quick and easy MMORPG that will challenge you as you get beyond 30+ if you're a veteran of MMO's. It has some of the best armor designs I've seen, or at least my favorite. The classic job system is there, so thats cool - even if its kinda weirdly designed. The feeling is ..good? Just good. It's not great, its not bad, its above decent...? Its hard to describe. If the combat was better..i'd say different.
In my personal opinion I'm going to be playing this really awesomely crafted with flat combat that isnt bad or good, just there so you can get gear at the end of the day. That's not a feeling I want to have...but maybe some fun changes will be made going into release, who knows?
I hope my opinion gave you some insight, sorry if it felt a little rant-y. I fell in love with the combat of FF11 and 1.0 and it just fell apart for me on a personal level with ARR. Let me know if you have any questions!
I agree with almost everything you say we are pretty much on the same page as well as a lot of my old FF11 friends and family.
FF14 is nothing compared to what FF11 was and from the looks of it it never will. I originally played FF11 because of how different it was from WoW, and a lot of the things people said of the FF11 hate mostly comes from Ex-WoW players who don't want anything closely relating to the game.
I also laugh at people who hate and argue of "time wasting" and agree with that you posted.
I wish or would of liked a more Immersive experience, I enjoy traveling and exploring areas it feels more realistic than just being able to travel to any spot in the game for sake of laziness. This same laziness and expectation of everything being extremely casual and simple is what is leading to the downfall of mmorpg.
I also enjoy being faced with danger at corners specially on places we have never been a part of, the removal of "being scared or being aware of environment" with things like sneak/invisible/etc removes a lot of Immersion from a virtual world.
I do not mind Fate, but making the basis of the game generally on quest spamming instead of monster hunting ruined it a lot for me as well. I for one am sick and tired of the fetching quest whether or not they masked it and called it something else can also be argued but Yoshi himself have stated they made game mostly based on quest spamming similar to every single generic WoW rehash clones that have been made over the past several years. Talk to npc------------>go kill 10 tigers---->come back and get half a level,etc. This alienates party experience as more people will spend the majority of the game just solo mode easily trashing anything in sight with AoE similarly as it was back in 1.0, very few people even bothered to party and only party to spam the guildleves level 1-50. This is extremely boring as I play a online rpg to interact and play with others and not play a single player game.
Lots of people this generation hate socializing and playing with others or even barf at the idea of having a online rpg be mostly concentrated on party play mechanics similar to FF11, and I for one miss it dearly.
And as said before coming from ex ff11 player if you enjoyed everything FF11 stood for and was you will hate FF14 or grow bored with it quick. and yes less in common with FF11 and a crap ton more with WoW. Did you enjoy WoW and any of its generic Easy mode/lazyfest then you will love this game.
P.S- and yes the game is extremely easy compared to ff11, I also wish to end by saying how crappy the new "standard" of focusing on endgame only and not the overall experience. In ff11 I was never pressured to reach max level and had too many things to do throughout all levels, now its just grind as fast as possible to supposidly start playing the real game at the end this is as stupid as saying you watch a entire movie but decide to skip it until the very end to see what the movie was really about ( sorry for crappy analogy) but its more or less the same. People whine about it because they are accustomed and accommodated to have everything handed to them, spend no time thinking and have a zerg spam fest. Heavens forgive them if they actually have to try to read lore, spend some time exploring and Immersing themselves int he game, or have anything challenging.
no offense personally to anyone who likes this style or "standard" but a lot of us Ex-ff11 players do not enjoy them at all and mean no offense to it.