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Developers change the name of a feature, but calls it a new idea. You get hyped over this. How you f

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  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

    I think you've missed the whole topic pertaining to the renaming of a feature in  newer games.

    OP claimed people were excited because GW2 replaced quests with Hearts. I explained why people were excited. It's because it replaced quests with Dynamic Events, not Hearts. There's a huge difference there. Similarly, people recognized that CU's stealth mechanic was stealth, but with a twist. They simply liked the twist. As for Rift's Rifts, I guess people were excited about public quests in a game that doesn't suck.

    The point is that the renaming of those features was never of any importance. People get excited because of the way these games used those features, not because of the basic premise behind them.

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member

    I believe its "Go with the Flow" Hate. Personally ive seen it many times where somone jumps into a thread just to hype or hate on something. some people dont actually know what is positive or negitive about it, they just want to join the conversation. So they join the hate. Thus it really doesnt matter if its just a name change, people dont actually learn what the feature is. they just hate it because somone else does.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    They don't call it 'brand new ideas' do they? No, they call it 'innovative' which is exactly what it is. All those things you listed are forms of innovation, an evolution of existing ideas.  There have been very few brand new ideas that have come from nowhere, especially in this era of bloated knowledge. Most new products are just evolutions of existing ideas, even if they seem like brand new ideas to you.

    If people want to get excited about this then who are you to judge?  I am sure you get excited about plenty of things that I couldn't care less about.

  • usuckmmorpgcomusuckmmorpgcom c, KYPosts: 1,348Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Incredible isn't it? I was talking to my aunt about this the other day,. I think maybe only 30% of the population is capable of critical thinking. It's like the other 70%'s DNA is different. I just don't get them.

    A buddy of mine is a university professor and told me a while back that he gets very frustrated with students these days. "They have no ability to think empirically", he says. "They cannot differentiate good data from bad". A good example: He regularly returns papers for rewrite that use Wikipedia entries as references.

  • DivonaDivona WellingtonPosts: 175Member

    This is mobile phone:

    This is smartphones:

    This is bacon:

    This is Pancetta:

    Can you point out the different in each of these similar looking thing but different name?

    /sarcasm

    I don't understand how many of you fall for this same form of marketing and hype.

    /end sarcasm

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

    I think you've missed the whole topic pertaining to the renaming of a feature in  newer games.

    OP claimed people were excited because GW2 replaced quests with Hearts. I explained why people were excited. It's because it replaced quests with Dynamic Events, not Hearts. There's a huge difference there. Similarly, people recognized that CU's stealth mechanic was stealth, but with a twist. They simply liked the twist. As for Rift's Rifts, I guess people were excited about public quests in a game that doesn't suck.

    The point is that the renaming of those features was never of any importance. People get excited because of the way these games used those features, not because of the basic premise behind them.

    +1  image

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • SereliskSerelisk somewhere, NYPosts: 836Member
    I've never heard of Pancetta before today but by god do I want it.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,274Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by topographic
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Incredible isn't it? I was talking to my aunt about this the other day,. I think maybe only 30% of the population is capable of critical thinking. It's like the other 70%'s DNA is different. I just don't get them.

    A buddy of mine is a university professor and told me a while back that he gets very frustrated with students these days. "They have no ability to think empirically", he says. "They cannot differentiate good data from bad". A good example: He regularly returns papers for rewrite that use Wikipedia entries as references.

    It was my second grade teacher who told me to go home and read the paper. She said read it  with a critical eye.

     

    more to your example, hoe about quoting theonion.com or the daily show and citing it as a source. image

  • LokbergLokberg OlsoPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by topographic
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Incredible isn't it? I was talking to my aunt about this the other day,. I think maybe only 30% of the population is capable of critical thinking. It's like the other 70%'s DNA is different. I just don't get them.

    A buddy of mine is a university professor and told me a while back that he gets very frustrated with students these days. "They have no ability to think empirically", he says. "They cannot differentiate good data from bad". A good example: He regularly returns papers for rewrite that use Wikipedia entries as references.

    Honest question why people from usa generaly distrust wikipedia?

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

    I think you've missed the whole topic pertaining to the renaming of a feature in  newer games.

    OP claimed people were excited because GW2 replaced quests with Hearts. I explained why people were excited. It's because it replaced quests with Dynamic Events, not Hearts. There's a huge difference there. Similarly, people recognized that CU's stealth mechanic was stealth, but with a twist. They simply liked the twist. As for Rift's Rifts, I guess people were excited about public quests in a game that doesn't suck.

    The point is that the renaming of those features was never of any importance. People get excited because of the way these games used those features, not because of the basic premise behind them.

     Dynamic events/hearts are the quests for GW2. Which is Arena Net simply renaming them so that the customer doesn't feel like they're grinding quests. It's renamed content.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lokberg

    Honest question why people from usa generaly distrust wikipedia?

    I was going to write something, but then found this article. It's rather good IMO:

    http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/education/2010/march/The-Top-10-Reasons-Students-Cannot-Cite-or-Rely-on-Wikipedia.html

    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

     Dynamic events/hearts are the quests for GW2. Which is Arena Net simply renaming them so that the customer doesn't feel like they're grinding quests. It's renamed content.

    Actually, you're be right. The only things that make DEs different from normal quests are that they change the areas in minor ways like opening dungeons, automatically support group play, actually show you what's happening instead of telling you, scale based on the number of players, are repeatable, can fail, are sometimes zone-wide and require coordinated effort from entire guilds, don't have any quest entries or NPCs, move around, often happen in PvP and can take place even without any players around.

    It's all minor stuff. In the end, you do things and get XP, so they're just like quests and GW2 is a WoW clone. I mean, both games have lizards in them and you can hit stuff and get loot.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    Originally posted by Lokberg

    Honest question why people from usa generaly distrust wikipedia?

    I was going to write something, but then found this article. It's rather good IMO:

    http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/education/2010/march/The-Top-10-Reasons-Students-Cannot-Cite-or-Rely-on-Wikipedia.html

    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

     Dynamic events/hearts are the quests for GW2. Which is Arena Net simply renaming them so that the customer doesn't feel like they're grinding quests. It's renamed content.

    Actually, you're be right. The only things that make DEs different from normal quests are that they change the areas in minor ways like opening dungeons, automatically support group play, actually show you what's happening instead of telling you, scale based on the number of players, are repeatable, can fail, are sometimes zone-wide and require coordinated effort from entire guilds, don't have any quest entries or NPCs, move around, often happen in PvP and can take place even without any players around.

    It's all minor stuff. In the end, you do things and get XP, so they're just like quests and GW2 is a WoW clone. I mean, both games have lizards in them and you can hit stuff and get loot.

      Well I would have imagined Arena Net would have looked at the rift system within RIFT. From what I've listened from Guild Wars 2 they use to talk about how a town would become attacked by a group of centaurs. It'd be nice to actually see the Centaurs actually take control of the town if they were successful. Like how RIFT's system had control points for their NPC's. 

     I'm also not calling any game a 'WoW clone' MMO's play like other MMO's and I'm fine with that. But don't paint a turd gold and call it a golden nugget; it's still a turd.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • godpuppetgodpuppet NottinghamPosts: 1,416Member
    Originally posted by Scalpless

    I travel to a village. Some guy tells me centaurs are attacking this village. I can see centaurs run through the village, setting things on fire and killing villagers. I ask a friend to help me in this epic battle. He can simply help me, without using a metagame construct like parties. I complete the quest by killing enough centaurs, forcing them to retreat. Maybe they'll attempt to attack the village again later on, but for a while it returns to being its peaceful self. If I ignored this event, the village would've gotten pillaged by centaurs, making its NPCs unavailable and opening up DEs to take this village back.

    Um...

    Tabula Rasa did this, so technically, doesnt that mean Richard Garriot created "Dynamic Events".

     

    At any rate, the novelty soon wore off, as you realised after the 4th time a town was taken, it was going to keep happening repeatedly. 

    ---
    image

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by godpuppet
    Originally posted by Scalpless

    I travel to a village. Some guy tells me centaurs are attacking this village. I can see centaurs run through the village, setting things on fire and killing villagers. I ask a friend to help me in this epic battle. He can simply help me, without using a metagame construct like parties. I complete the quest by killing enough centaurs, forcing them to retreat. Maybe they'll attempt to attack the village again later on, but for a while it returns to being its peaceful self. If I ignored this event, the village would've gotten pillaged by centaurs, making its NPCs unavailable and opening up DEs to take this village back.

    Um...

    Tabula Rasa did this, so technically, doesnt that mean Richard Garriot created "Dynamic Events".

     

    At any rate, the novelty soon wore off, as you realised after the 4th time a town was taking, it was going to keep happening repeatedly. 

    Nah, because Funcom did this back in Anarchy Online with invasions of player cities.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • godpuppetgodpuppet NottinghamPosts: 1,416Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by godpuppet
    Originally posted by Scalpless

    I travel to a village. Some guy tells me centaurs are attacking this village. I can see centaurs run through the village, setting things on fire and killing villagers. I ask a friend to help me in this epic battle. He can simply help me, without using a metagame construct like parties. I complete the quest by killing enough centaurs, forcing them to retreat. Maybe they'll attempt to attack the village again later on, but for a while it returns to being its peaceful self. If I ignored this event, the village would've gotten pillaged by centaurs, making its NPCs unavailable and opening up DEs to take this village back.

    Um...

    Tabula Rasa did this, so technically, doesnt that mean Richard Garriot created "Dynamic Events".

     

    At any rate, the novelty soon wore off, as you realised after the 4th time a town was taking, it was going to keep happening repeatedly. 

    Nah, because Funcom did this back in Anarchy Online with invasions of player cities.

    And there was an automated quest/mission system publically to retake the town? or was it just a case of killing all the npcs?

    Becuase, not to be pedantic, I think thats the point the guys getting at here, there is an underlying "mission" or "quest" for being involved, not just mob xp.

    ---
    image

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lokberg
    Originally posted by topographic
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Incredible isn't it? I was talking to my aunt about this the other day,. I think maybe only 30% of the population is capable of critical thinking. It's like the other 70%'s DNA is different. I just don't get them.

    A buddy of mine is a university professor and told me a while back that he gets very frustrated with students these days. "They have no ability to think empirically", he says. "They cannot differentiate good data from bad". A good example: He regularly returns papers for rewrite that use Wikipedia entries as references.

    Honest question why people from usa generaly distrust wikipedia?

    Because it can be written and rewritten by anyone without reference to primary sources. It's realty modification by popular vote. It's perception of truth rather than truth.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Lokberg
    Originally posted by topographic
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Incredible isn't it? I was talking to my aunt about this the other day,. I think maybe only 30% of the population is capable of critical thinking. It's like the other 70%'s DNA is different. I just don't get them.

    A buddy of mine is a university professor and told me a while back that he gets very frustrated with students these days. "They have no ability to think empirically", he says. "They cannot differentiate good data from bad". A good example: He regularly returns papers for rewrite that use Wikipedia entries as references.

    Honest question why people from usa generaly distrust wikipedia?

    Because it can be written and rewritten by anyone without reference to primary sources. It's realty modification by popular vote. It's perception of truth rather than truth.

    Yeah, it's kind of like picking up 10 books from different authors who've written about WWII. Each of them have different information about how they perceived WWII. Now imagine if those authors went onto wikipedia and just started throwing all sorts of information at it. You'll have a large mix up of information and misinformation. Also, just because it's on paper doesn't mean it's true either.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,396Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

      Well I would have imagined Arena Net would have looked at the rift system within RIFT. From what I've listened from Guild Wars 2 they use to talk about how a town would become attacked by a group of centaurs. It'd be nice to actually see the Centaurs actually take control of the town if they were successful. Like how RIFT's system had control points for their NPC's.

    Half of the DEs in the Human areas revolve around Centaurs taking control of towns and taking them back and the basic premise behind Orr is playing tug of war with the undead. Have you played the game or just read mmorpg.com forums? Your criticism in this thread really makes it look like you don't know even the basics of GW2's questing system.

  • LokbergLokberg OlsoPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by Scalpless
    Originally posted by Lokberg

    Honest question why people from usa generaly distrust wikipedia?

    I was going to write something, but then found this article. It's rather good IMO:

    http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/education/2010/march/The-Top-10-Reasons-Students-Cannot-Cite-or-Rely-on-Wikipedia.html

    Thanks for answering was an intresting read

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

      Well I would have imagined Arena Net would have looked at the rift system within RIFT. From what I've listened from Guild Wars 2 they use to talk about how a town would become attacked by a group of centaurs. It'd be nice to actually see the Centaurs actually take control of the town if they were successful. Like how RIFT's system had control points for their NPC's. 

     

     

    And your imagination would have failed you due to the fact that Rift and GW2 were being developed in parallel. Towns in GW2 do, actually, get taken over by centaurs (for example), or a Giant, etc. Until people actively go into those towns and retake them they remain in control of the enemies. They don't reset automatically. Anyone that comes along later sees the town controlled by enemies instead of friendly NPCs.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

      Well I would have imagined Arena Net would have looked at the rift system within RIFT. From what I've listened from Guild Wars 2 they use to talk about how a town would become attacked by a group of centaurs. It'd be nice to actually see the Centaurs actually take control of the town if they were successful. Like how RIFT's system had control points for their NPC's. 

     

     

    And your imagination would have failed you due to the fact that Rift and GW2 were being developed in parallel. Towns in GW2 do, actually, get taken over by centaurs (for example), or a Giant, etc. Until people actively go into those towns and retake them they remain in control of the enemies. They don't reset automatically. Anyone that comes along later sees the town controlled by enemies instead of friendly NPCs.

    what towns do this cause most just simply reset if they go so long without someone saveing it, or you could just changes instance

     

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • barasawabarasawa Eugene, ORPosts: 272Member Uncommon

    Let's put it this way. I helped a friend at his sales booth during a fair one year. He was selling his product for $2.50 each, and had a sign up indicating that. Sales were slow, so he added another sign right below that one. It said "Or 3 for $7.50". We nearly doubled our sales from the large number of people that were suddenly buying 3 instead of 1, just because they wanted to get the special pricing. (Yeah, I know, and they weren't 2nd graders that can't do that kind of simple math.)

     

    So yeah, after that, I fully believe a simple name change or the like will get a large number of people to fall for it. I don't know why, but they do.

    (Maybe grade school should teach "logic & rational thinking".)

    Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

      Well I would have imagined Arena Net would have looked at the rift system within RIFT. From what I've listened from Guild Wars 2 they use to talk about how a town would become attacked by a group of centaurs. It'd be nice to actually see the Centaurs actually take control of the town if they were successful. Like how RIFT's system had control points for their NPC's. 

     

     

    And your imagination would have failed you due to the fact that Rift and GW2 were being developed in parallel. Towns in GW2 do, actually, get taken over by centaurs (for example), or a Giant, etc. Until people actively go into those towns and retake them they remain in control of the enemies. They don't reset automatically. Anyone that comes along later sees the town controlled by enemies instead of friendly NPCs.

    what towns do this cause most just simply reset if they go so long without someone saveing it, or you could just changes instance

     

     

    No towns reset without user interaction. None. If you come back and find that it's back under NPC control it's because actual players showed up and made it that way. 

     

    Actually... Nageling is a fun one there... there are two takeover conditions. One is the giant, the other is (I think) separatists (someone correct me if wrong). One time I happened along there and saw the giant take control of Nageling... from the separatists. The town actually changed control from one enemy group to another (OK, the giant is big enough to call a group) without players even being there. Of course, it's then up to the players to kill the giant and reclaim the town.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scalpless

    So usually quests can be completed via a multitude of tasks, including completing other quests, are only a minor source of XP and are shared automatically between people? You can usually see the other people who are in stealth?

    I'm not sure about Rift's Rifts, but GW2's leveling system is radically different from that of WoW-style MMOs and CU's stealth looks like a clever variation of normal stealth.

    This.  GW2's style of "quests" are different enough that most who hate linear quest hubs won't automatically hate it.

  • VorchVorch Somewhere, FLPosts: 800Member
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

      Well I would have imagined Arena Net would have looked at the rift system within RIFT. From what I've listened from Guild Wars 2 they use to talk about how a town would become attacked by a group of centaurs. It'd be nice to actually see the Centaurs actually take control of the town if they were successful. Like how RIFT's system had control points for their NPC's. 

     

     

    And your imagination would have failed you due to the fact that Rift and GW2 were being developed in parallel. Towns in GW2 do, actually, get taken over by centaurs (for example), or a Giant, etc. Until people actively go into those towns and retake them they remain in control of the enemies. They don't reset automatically. Anyone that comes along later sees the town controlled by enemies instead of friendly NPCs.

    what towns do this cause most just simply reset if they go so long without someone saveing it, or you could just changes instance

     

    Erm...

     

    1. Queensdale bandits taking over farms

    2. Gendaran fields centaurs taking over town

    3. Giant in Plains of Ashford demolishing charr village.

    4. Orr...all of it...the undead actually have control most of the time.

    5. Pirates taking over a ship wreck in Lornar's Pass (can turn them friendly and make a quaggan their captain)

     

    those are off the top of my head. Basically, dynamic events are chains that consist of ultimate success states and ultimate fail states.

    The ultimate success state is temporary and lasts only a certain amount of time before the chain starts again.

    The ultimate fail state is PERMANENT until a group breaks the state and drives the chain to the ultimate success state.

    Chains can also interfere and run parallel to each other at the same time (this sometimes makes a simple DE ridiculously hard, but much more fun)

     

    And truly, what makes these DEs successful is not only their set up, but the fact that they work very well with the sidekick leveling system. This ensures that anyone can do them and not roflstomp.

    "As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

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