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I would not like a MMO on consule, for a few reasons.
1. I fill a MMO that bases it controls on a controlers and not mouse and keyboard is being limited in its number of controls available.
2. both of the new consoles will require a monthly fee just for the privalge to use online service, so you will have to pay for the console online service, the games monthly sub, ( unless its F2P which means it gimp if you don't fork over even more cash) so basicly your paying twice for onthly service of one game no matter how you look at it.
3. consoles have a fixed system setting, and as such improvements made to the MMO will always have to be withen the parameters of the console it will never be able to evolve at all. which I know for the newer generation of MMO players dousnt mean much cause yall jump from MMO to new MMO like happy rabbits, but it is a concern for older MMO players who like to make a home in a MMO.
4. the current market for MMOs is based around the F2P era, ( even if I hate it ) and sorry but consule pllayers are used pure B2P style games and would get annoyed at being given games that had elements left out on purpose to make you pay more money for them, don't beleave me look at the capcon VS marvel game that came out recently ( imight be rembering the exact game wrong I don't have a console)
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toProper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Originally posted by Squeak69 I would not like a MMO on consule, for a few reasons. 1. I fill a MMO that bases it controls on a controlers and not mouse and keyboard is being limited in its number of controls available. 2. both of the new consoles will require a monthly fee just for the privalge to use online service, so you will have to pay for the console online service, the games monthly sub, ( unless its F2P which means it gimp if you don't fork over even more cash) so basicly your paying twice for onthly service of one game no matter how you look at it. 3. consoles have a fixed system setting, and as such improvements made to the MMO will always have to be withen the parameters of the console it will never be able to evolve at all. which I know for the newer generation of MMO players dousnt mean much cause yall jump from MMO to new MMO like happy rabbits, but it is a concern for older MMO players who like to make a home in a MMO. 4. the current market for MMOs is based around the F2P era, ( even if I hate it ) and sorry but consule pllayers are used pure B2P style games and would get annoyed at being given games that had elements left out on purpose to make you pay more money for them, don't beleave me look at the capcon VS marvel game that came out recently ( imight be rembering the exact game wrong I don't have a console)
Well for 2., pretty much every game on consoles today are B2P games with an item shop. Nothing new here. In fact console gamers are far more used to having to pay for things like new outfits than PC gamers are. So if they do require a sub and still try that item store shit then I won't be playing. But if it is standard B2P with item shop it will depend on how much fun the game is without purchasing anything.
The sad truth is that MMO's will move to consoles and there's little to be done to stop it. The dev studios know where the money is and you can bet they want their share of that market.
Unfortunately for us it means the genre is going to change. The subtle complexity of past MMO's will be lost as the devs make them console compatible, the social element will be reduced due to controller constraints (just look at defiance for proof of that) and the genre will no longer be true MMO's but mere multiplayer RPG's with a few extra people able to connect.
I think the genre is in a very dangerous place right now and ultimately I think it's going to move to console and be lost. Maybe if we're lucky we'll get a few hold-outs who refuse to dumb down their ideas enough to fit on a console and we'll keep half a dozen "proper" MMO's. I can only hope so.
It is interesting that Michael and I presume other gaming journalists have noticed that AAA MMO's have really suffered in the last couple of years. But being in the industry he is over optimistic. I have been talking about this for a few months, things are not well in MMO land for P2P titles, let alone AAA.
Two facts - GW2 is the only P2P (as a B2P) MMO that has been a huge success since the period of the dark ages he talks about. Defiance is the only P2P MMO that has launched this year, only one and we are nearly in July.
Things do not look good for AAA releases. Michael points out himself the danger of MMOs going console, dumbing down. Let me tell him some history, MMO's already got a dumbing down in the 00's to conform to console players expectations. MMOs were made into solo games to attract the console player base. In the solo games market we saw this as well, PC games have become handcuffed to the design principles of console games. So it is not like we have not seen this before.
MMOs going console can only mean one thing, more dumbing down. The MMO genre is in dire straits, I am not sure that the games that start to come out after MMOs go console will even be worthy of the MMO name. Not yet, but once MMO's are established on consoles, once that is the norm. Then the name 'MMO' will become nothing more than a label applied to a game to bring in more players to the cash shop.
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Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy? :P
I dont think so, Tim.
Just look what happened to other games which were PC only titles and then went on concoles too. It clear what is going to happen and others have mentioned it above.
Originally posted by SpottyGekko I'm sure the Next-Gen consoles will result in HUGE growth for MMO's Sadly, they will do nothing for "classic" MMORPG's, which seem to be an endangered species currently... Modern MMO's are very different from their counterparts of 10-15 years ago. They are almost indistinguishable from online co-op games, and continually seem to be moving closer to that genre. They are ever more casual, action-oriented, instanced and phased with pseudo-grouping that allows players all the benefits of being in a group without actually formally joining other players. As long as you are near some other people...
Sadly I agree. If there is an "explosion" it will not be in true MMOs it will be in MMOFPS and MMO action shooters - at least in the West. Asia still produces MMOs but more and more they are going the "action combat" route.
Originally posted by Four0Six Originally posted by keithian I agree with everything this article wrote including the dream that they could all play together.
Always will be just a dream, because keyboard/mouse > controller. MOAR buttons FTW.
This is no longer true.
As all the new MMO´s seem to go for the more "action" oriented combat with limited ability set and different ways of RPG progression, instead of having 6 full action bars of skills, from which in practice you only use a portion off.
The console controllers have become much better too.
In fact, I play Skyrim with my XBOX 360 controller and love it! It works really well.
Cross platform could never work.
If a mmo was released on all three you would get many whine that KB-M is ina advantage over clumsy controlller or the pc gamers would complain that mmo was made with controller on mind not to mention the prolly smaller maps or other limitations to fit on console would annoy the PC game who can easyly have video card of 4gig and 32gig memory.
But MS and SOE will never come together so prolly waste of hoping one day three can have xplatform gaming.
Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...
Originally posted by daltanious No. Unless they adopt keyboard and mouse as standard.
Well, that's the thing, because the next generation PS4 has a next generation controller and comes with a head set. So we are talking a touch pad on the front of the controller. Now a touch pad would allow you to do mouse-like stuff I'd be thinking here.
MMO? Perhaps but i dont care since without RPG part MMO in another boring, simplistic genre.
Originally posted by killahh 6 bars of macro hot keys =a sucker player. Besides, controllers have a huge number of button combos, so Boom! That argument is done. Next gen consoles right out of the box will be better than alot of the rigs alot of you run atm, so if a mmorpg is console friendly, shouldn't be a problem, Boom! The real problem is the false eliteism of cranky old farts, and yes I'm talking to you, once you embraced technology, and now your in a rut. As someone who loves technology, and who has a deep passion for mmorpg's and consoles, not to mention having played these style of games longer than some of you have been potty trained. Tech evolution is happening, your either jump on board or go extinct. Besides, playing a game on a comfy couch, no cables, 60 inch lcd TV in hd is nice, Mouse kb combo is easy mode, any half wit can master it.
For me the problem with consoles isnt what a console can do but who developers are developing games for. Apparently their target group wants simple, stressless, not intellectually challenging entertainment. Current MMOs are exactly this so there is no problem implementing them on consoles. I would love to play some mmo with Soul Calibour fighting style but i fear this is all consoles can bring to the table. The problem is, moving MMOs to consoles will probably stall genre developement for another 10 years.
You can go on and on about how awesome the new consoles are but we said the same thing when the first Xbox came out. Can you think of WoW scaling its content to the first Xbox? Now thats a MMO no one would be playing. Consoles tech is stuck in time for 5-7 years. Sure PS4 looks awesome now, but there is many ways PC tech can still be pushed as the only thing stopping that is heat and there is many ways around that.
You have way more control with a mouse and keyboard then a mouse. Dumbed down UIs and game play to make it work cross platform is not going to make PC gamers happy. DCU is a great eg. I dropped it after 2 days of play because the PC game UI was designed for a console. Felt like I had to fight with the UI to get anything done.
More people own PCs then they do consoles. Its a bigger market and designing a MMO to work on a console alienates PC gamers. Well, the smart ones. This is before you take into account gaming keyboards and mice, macros and other things PC gamers and come to expect to use when playing their games. Consoles offer less options and so in the end are the lesser quality experience.
My wife who is arthritic can play very well with a game pad but we can use gaming keyboards and mouse to augment her play so she can play as well as anyone. People with missing fingers, arms, visually impaired all have mods and tools they use to keep playing. You cant do that to a console. Sorry, unless its a MMOFPS its just not worth it.
=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums.
Ok so this conversation has been around before...Oh Yeah! It was when the PS3 and the Xbox360 were announced....
MMORPGs won’t make it mainstream on the consoles folks.. keep dreaming. Architecture aside upgrading a console to keep up with the PC market is just a silly idea. If you’re gonna hook a keyboard and mouse to a console why not just buy a PC for christs sake?
MMOFPS games or Massively Multi-player Online First Person Shooters: Destiny for example…. Those are great for console. They have been since the good ol’ Golden Eye days… damn that game still bring a tear to the eye, loved it that much… menus could be made for weapon switching and scripting it for a linear questing model would be no different than most other games you see being made.
However, MMORPGs are completely different. Just with the sheer number of abilities and actions a console controller couldn’t handle them effectively. Let’s not talk about the action going on the split screen or multi-screen action if you have friends hooked into your box. Once the spells start going off you won’t see a damned thing but flashing colors.
Now, yes, you could set up multiple displays and in sure some PS4 or XboxOne genius has made it possible to link controller setting to different monitors ……right what am I talking about that would make sense.. They would never do that. So yeah.
Aint gonna happen folks…. You’ll have your FPS games but MMORPG’s? nope cross platform you’d get your tails kicked, and hardware-wise the consoles will more than likely be out of date upon release for most game machines.
Now, not everyone has a game rig. Most PC’s sold are going to be below the tech level of the PS4 and Xbox one. So yeah I could see a possible resurgence of games that are developed for Consoles that were designed for PC originally. However I do not see MMORPG’s being in that list due to some serious design features.
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
Its 2013 people, if anyone thinks consoles are going to "dumb down" MMOs, then you obviously havent played many recent MMOs. Sure you would probably have a hard time doing Runescape or WoW on a console but most MMOs these days are going more of a GW2 route where instead of having 50 abilities at once, you select only a handful to have active on your char at any one time. This makes the game very playable on any console and many people actually play GW2 on a gamepad on their PC like me because they have a real job and want the freedom to game from the relaxing position on the couch rather than hunch miserably over a computer desk after doing that for 8 hours at work already...
Elder Scrolls Oblivion, Fallout, etc have all played quite well on consoles and those are rather complex games. The world is not going to end if more MMOs get ported to consoles nor will they get "dumbed down." Most the dumbing down of MMOs I have seen is a result of the customer base (Neverwinter), not of the platform its on.
Tera has imo the best combat system in any mmo. It's also designed to be playable with a controller. So the argument that you can't design a proper ui for a console doesn't really ring true.
Any lack of depth Tera may have is the fault of the game makers not because of it's UI or combat system. The platform doesn't matter. A good game is a good game.
Originally posted by BillMurphy Could Next-Gen Consoles Bring an MMO Renaissance?
That pretty much depends on overcoming the lameness of the controllers, doesn't it?
I mean, reality check, MUDs were successfully "dumbed down" into graphical interfaces and wireframes to make mmos--3000 verbs to 10 emotes. And all it cost was the entire origin of the genre...that was a small price to pay, right?
Welcome to the dinosaur exhibit. Look out for T.Rexxie, he bites.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I certainly think it's possible. It's been a decade since the 'golden age' of PC MMOs. I don't see anything that will spark a new PC MMO golden age either. Seems like with every new big-budget game released over the last few years they were supposed to give a spark to the industry.
With the new consoles the infrastructure being nearly identical it allows easy updating for all versions. Also allows for many more active players all on a standard platform which is easier and cheaper for developers to work on.
Also, MMOs these days cost tens of millions of dollars to develop. Adding consoles to the list of platforms spreads out the risk to publishers/developers financially. This could help the MMO industry immensely.
Originally posted by Foomerang When I play virtua fighter, my characters have 40-60+ moves that I can trigger from a controller in a split second. It becomes second nature after a while. Its more than enough to accommodate all the needs of an mmo.
That is exactly the way I play SWTOR , on my 360 controller I use A , B , X, Y and the d-pad 4 ways. Then I use right shoulder button and those 8 . Then I also use left shoulder and those 8. Also use left and right shoulder buttons and the 8. Finally i use right thumbstick in and the 8. A total of 40 abilities on my controller. I can move the mouse cursor with the right thumb stick , the back and start buttons act as left and right mouse for camera movement etc. Right thumbstick in acts as a spacebar for jumping.
As for the movement controls then i found the best way was to have W for forward on the left thumbstick , S for backwards , left trigger for A and right trigger for D. Then strafe left and right on the left thumbstick , which in this case are Q and E. It works really really well , been playing this way since launch , well after a few hickups.
All in all it is easily done and yes hopefully this new wave of console MMO's might finally break the mainstream and become the norm.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing."SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13The original propoganda pixie dust villain :
Originally posted by Scot Let me tell him some history, MMO's already got a dumbing down in the 00's to conform to console players expectations. MMOs were made into solo games to attract the console player base. In the solo games market we saw this as well, PC games have become handcuffed to the design principles of console games. So it is not like we have not seen this before.MMOs going console can only mean one thing, more dumbing down. The MMO genre is in dire straits, I am not sure that the games that start to come out after MMOs go console will even be worthy of the MMO name. Not yet, but once MMO's are established on consoles, once that is the norm. Then the name 'MMO' will become nothing more than a label applied to a game to bring in more players to the cash shop.
The only thing I see getting dumbed down is your ability to think rationally. You really think console gamers are to blame for dumbed down mmos? Really? You don't think its the hundreds of millions of pc owners who glob onto the multitude of mind numbing skinner blox games that get cranked out on the pc? Zynga, pop games, facebook shovelware garbage. That installed pc userbase of a couple billion casuals dumbed down mmos. Console gamers dont even play the same genres as pc gamers for the most part.
And its already been proven that a gamepad allows for just as many instant access commands as a screen full of toolbars. I know you're jaded. But this misplaced anger you have toward consoles is sad.
Well, looking at the next generation of consoles, and my current PC specs, and comparing the prices of building a new gaming pc compared to picking up both the XBOX One and PS4, and for the first time in my life, I'm doubting the need for a PC to do anything except VPN into work.
I'm a software engineer by trade, so at least for now, a full on computer is still a requirement, but I don't think I need to continue spending 50% of my PC budget on a video subsystem anymore.
Hell, if EVE turns that new radial menu into full on console support, I'm SET!
What most of the comments here fail to realize is that Console MMORPG are not necessarily targeting PC MMORPG, they might be some cross over, but they are not neccessarily targeting PC mmorpg players.
THe way console MMORPG will evolve if it does will be entirely different from the way PC will evolve. Personally, I am looking forward to the day where other genres other than mmofps appear on teh consoles, good I know I need a god action mmorpg with Tight controls.
Also I find it ironic that MMORPG players are whining about mmo being dumbed down even though, the whole genre is just a giant dumb down game, full of compromise designed to appear to the lowest common denominator even worst than CoD players. Most mechanics of MMORPG pretty much are dumb downed. I mean when did NOT standing in fire or using a macro or even add on so that the game play itself you ever require a functional brain? I mean if a blind man can beat supposedly hard content (it did happen) then I like to think the genre is dumb down.