But please, continue telling us how not to listen to anyone that tells you otherwise. Square Enix is desparate and their entire company is on the verge of bankruptcy if they don't "achieve the impossible" with an unheard of subscription model in this day and age, because you have "the facts".
Maybe get some more relevant facts next time to back up your claims. Maybe we can pitch in and buy you a new calendar so at least you can see what year it is.
The company is still losing money: 1. Consolidated Financial Results (April 1, 2012 to March 31, 2013)
Keep in mind that isn't all from FFXIV. Also I never said that FFXIV:ARR was the savior of the company. I also never said that the game would be anything other than a subscription or that I hoped it would be. Somehow I think the comments devolved into people thinking I had.
Also I don't equate losing money to making money. If you consider generating revenue making money even though you are operating at a loss, well then we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
And finally on the finances, I'm just trying to be the voice of reason. Some of what I read in here makes me believe some people thought the game was turning a profit towards the end. It wasn't. I was helping to offset it's own costs. Producers and directors can tell you what ever they want in PR like that. The company has to be truthful in their financial reports. I want the game to be a success too. I just don't want anyone to think things are better than they are under false pretense.
So in order for the game to "make money" it has to recoup all development costs. Which are what? Keep in mind that a lot of the team working on FFXIV are Square Enix employees paid whether FFXIV exists or not. Either way you don't have this information, it probably hasn't recouped the development cost but at a studio that big how do you even know they expected it to considering its engine and many other assets at use were not even exclusive to this one title. You don't know any of that, you are just posting random financial stats for a company that makes everything from toys, to arcade machines, TV shows, and video games across nearly every platform and then trying to "tie it" to this game.
Your link though better than the one from 2011 (I mean come on, they weren't even charging subs yet in 2011) says nothing about FFXIV's cost related to the revenue it actually did generate (because again they started charging a subscription fee in early 2012, and had the playerbase increase threefold according to interview quoted earlier in these comments) for 2012. You are not playing "the voice of reason" you are trying to talk about things you do not know about by linking financial reports that do not detail what you claim they do only that the company as a whole reports a loss.
Instead of trying to report on investment news for Square Enix (and failing, April 2012 was still a long time ago you are getting closer but still pretty out of date here, at least you are going in the right direction?). Why not focus on the actual game so you can correct some of the errors people have pointed out in your article for your next impression. I don't think people are interested in your further delving into the financial state of Square Enix. We come here for gaming news, not to see random news contributors play financial analyst after they spent 15 seconds on google looking for a link that sounds like it backs up their assumptions and speculation.
F2P is a bad idea I quit so many F2P games within the first 3 weeks it just how it is. Like yoshi said people will love F2P but since they are not paying they don't feel like playing and will come on and off.
Originally posted by mcrippins really want to play this game - cant even pay to get in beta it seems =[
@mcrippins Follow them on twitter, they've been mentioning sites giving away beta keys for both PC and PS3. Not ~that~ hard to get a key if you pay any kind of attention to it, also the open beta isn't too far off, probably.
If free to play is the future of the western market then the future looks very grim....
I wont touch those failed pay to win mmo's.
I hope FF ARR has great succes and show that the market will support your product if you keep the game in top shape.
Lets hope for the sake of the genre all is not lost.
Free to Play is not the future of the MMO market. It is the current reality. Let's just take a look at the remaining P2P MMOGs...
World of Warcraft has been bleeding subs over the past year, dropping millions of subs since cata came out, and from the looks of things this trend is going to continue. While you can argue all you want that they still have 8 million subs and are fine, you can't look me in the eyes and tell me that loosing 5 million subs in two years is not cause for alarm.
Eve Online has been holding out fairly well, though how much of this is due to it being the only real Sandbox title worth mentioning remains to be seen.
UO has long since passed it's prime, at this point I don't think even F2P could bring it back.
Warhammer flopped hard, but is still somehow chugging along.
Darkfall is a sad joke of a game, and I'll just leave it at that.
So, of all the remaining P2P games left, only 1 out of 5 are still retaining subs.
So, with this in mind, let's talk about FF14ARR....
Sqeenix... YOU ARE INSANE!!!!!!! Vanilla FF14 was one of the worst MMORPGs released in recent history, bombed so hard on release that you felt it nescesary to stop charging subs for an ENTIRE YEAR, then when that wasn't enough, you had to remake the game from scratch. Not to mention the fact that, thanks to recent events, both your company name, and the final fantasy brand are toxic to the gaming public.
And yet, despite all this, Square, you have the gall to charge $15 a month of ARR... in this market... after all the bad PR the original game got. The guys at square have a certain something made out of pure brass.
And, despite all of this, I'm already seeing the Final Fantasy fanboys pouring out of the woodworks. Grab your popcorn, folks, it's going to be one hell of a show.
When your doing a review please do some research, Conjurer has cure, and at max lvl classes can equip 10 abilities from other classes, and Jobs who are more specialized Can equip 5. I for 1 look forward for launch i Think its a really good aaa mmo. Subscription or not. F2p games tend to become more expensive than b2p, LoL is the most expensive game i have played so far, and its f2p
The success of a P2P will be decided by its overall content, especially the end game content. With this I predict that ARR will prosper. SE has a history of constantly providing new content for their MMOs which is the reason FFXI has survived this long. Yoshida has stated on several occasions he will continue this practice. In addition there is more to ARR then leveling and dungeons. It has the best crafting system I have ever seen in a MMO. In addition to that Gathering is being revamped from Ver 1.0 form. If that is not enough then you have Grand Companies and all their activeties as well as siege type content. This is just what will be in the game at launch. Yoshida has outlined numerous additions for the year following launch. So, unless you are a retired old foggy like me who can play 10-12 hours a day there should always be something for you to do.
I prefer something like this as compared to what happened to Tera, especially are it went to F2P. That game has become strictly a cash grag with no real future. After playing Phase 3 Beta and checking up on what is planned half my Guild in Tera will be moving to ARR.
So in closing let me say, very few companies have the horsepower to pull off a successful P2P game. SE and Blizzard are the only 2 that I know off and we know of their success in P2P MMOs.
it was the WORST combat mechanic i ever experienced. you can go to sleep after pushing one skill and wake up in time to push the second one. soooooooooooo sllloooooooowwwwwwwww
Originally posted by Etherignis I hope this game stay p2p and keep the f2p garbage away from this game.
Not always possible, do you think Rift and Tera went F2P because they wanted too? They had no choice, either that or shutdown the game. I'd rather see a game go f2p than shutdown.
No a game should shut down rather than go F2P. F2P gams have no quality to them just nickle and dime you for in game stuff that should be free with a subscription period. We have too many MMOs as it is and games need to start shutting down.
What a disgusting attitude you have. If you don't like a game's payment model, it should simply cease to exist even if there are people still enjoying the game. If we got rid of everything we didn't like, there'd be nothing left. Why don't you just avoid F2P games instead of wanting them all gone? Is it because you "care" about the genre and want to cull the "bad" games? If so, then you need to take a step back and gain some perspective on life.
As for XIV, the game is alright. If it were called anything other than Final Fantasy, I wouldn't care about it whatsoever, but since I'm a big fanboy of Final Fantasy, I find that I care more than I should. I think releasing and only offering P2P is a huge mistake as it's really nothing special as an MMO aside from the branding and aesthetic.
I would have subbed before but they made it really hard. I am looking forward to this re-release and I plan on it being my main game. I love the graphics. I might even look at using a controller on my PC. Can't wait for housing. Want to raise Chocobos. There is so much in the game that doesn't require me to be stressed. I get to go and be a miner or logger and come back and work on my sewing or metalworking. Tired of that then go to my house and do some gardening. I might be doing all this before I ever advance my War and Magic classes. Other games might offer the same thing but this is one where I love the art and I plan on doing the yearly sub.
Originally posted by Etherignis I hope this game stay p2p and keep the f2p garbage away from this game.
Games don't go F2P by choice but because they have to.
Yes Yoshida has said that they won't go F2P because they are their own investors but money is money. If they didn't make enough profit you really think they will be stubborn to continue as as P2P only because of some false ego?
Let me remind you that first version was a disaster and they hardly made any profit on it. Last time they decided to just rework on entire game but if this time population dwindled what would be their move? make a third version or go F2P? logic says F2P.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but you're able to equip more than three of another class' abilities (I believe an additional is unlocked every five levels or so). This increases depending on what level you are. I believe it it with the Advanced Jobs that you're only able to use three from a select group of classes.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
50 bucks and a sub? Pfffft forget that....Like many others have said, wake us up when the game is f2p and we'll take a look at it...>After the first debacle that was supposed to be so great, no way should anyone consider paying that kind of money for this.
Stop crying about how it was before...the one that matters is now and now is a fucking awsome game.It deserves every single dollar of the subscrition and if you can't afford 14 bugs a month go play Tera or Neverwinter or....mmmm......tetris??...My personal oppion about the game is the dev team put their best to make this game far from anything we have played before and guess what? They did it...it's still in beta and it blown many people's minds including me.And the balance although in beta its freaking good...although balance changed due to happen i guess to be more freaking good. Soooo i can talk for it for hours but nothing will change this...crybabies will be crybabies and gamers will be gamers....If you are a crybaby i suggest you to play tetris(pretty solid game through out years dont you think?) if you are a game i suggest you buy the game cause it's what you were waitng for.I dont think elder scroll stand a chance to win final fantasy realm reborn....well not wildstar as well..That's all folks...i give this game 8/10 and it's still in beta,,,after a few solid months of play it will go i guess more...have fun
it was the WORST combat mechanic i ever experienced. you can go to sleep after pushing one skill and wake up in time to push the second one. soooooooooooo sllloooooooowwwwwwwww
There were a couple times I forgot I was still in combat it was so dull. I would find myself watching tv look at my monitor and realize I was still in combat..lol. it may get a bit better at later levels but man it would be a chore to get through the first part of the game. It appears to be a nice polished good looking game but graphics and polish only get you so far.
Personally I find it refreshing to play a MMO again that requires a subscription and I am not always left feeling like the developer is trying to see how far they can dig into my pockets under the guise of a free game.
Same here and I think that many players feel the same, especially older players (like me) who are used to the subscription model and to have all the features available.
Originally posted by Theocritus 50 bucks and a sub? Pfffft forget that....Like many others have said, wake us up when the game is f2p and we'll take a look at it...>After the first debacle that was supposed to be so great, no way should anyone consider paying that kind of money for this.
50 bucks and a sub? Pfffft forget that....Like many others have said, wake us up when the game is f2p and we'll take a look at it...>After the first debacle that was supposed to be so great, no way should anyone consider paying that kind of money for this.
The thing I don't understand is if you guys don't like this game it's payment model, why even bother wasting your time bashing the game and spoiling it for the people who actually like this system?
I know it sounds weird but sometimes I get the feeling that there are these people that actually wish for new games to fail just so it'll hopefully go "F2P". Something about not having "F2P" access to big new MMOs seems to really bother some people.
And who cares if 1.0 sucked, it's history and for those $40 or whatever the game cost almost 3 years ago you got the game, more than a year playtime without monthly fee, access to the beta phase 3 of A Realm Reborn at the very latest and you get to download the new version of the game for no additional cost. I know, in a perfect world 1.0 would have simply kicked ass but the world isn't perfect and this seems like a much better alternative than the "F2P"-option that most games in the same situation goes for.
I know it sounds weird but sometimes I get the feeling that there are these people that actually wish for new games to fail just so it'll hopefully go "F2P". Something about not having "F2P" access to big new MMOs seems to really bother some people.And who cares if 1.0 sucked, it's history and for those $40 or whatever the game cost almost 3 years ago you got the game, more than a year playtime without monthly fee, access to the beta phase 3 of A Realm Reborn at the very latest and you get to download the new version of the game for no additional cost. I know, in a perfect world 1.0 would have simply kicked ass but the world isn't perfect and this seems like a much better alternative than the "F2P"-option that most games in the same situation goes for.
Bingo! You are dead on. That's the vibe I have been getting also. Also they don't stop on forums they get in to betas or trial accounts and bash the games there also lol.
I know it sounds weird but sometimes I get the feeling that there are these people that actually wish for new games to fail just so it'll hopefully go "F2P". Something about not having "F2P" access to big new MMOs seems to really bother some people.
And who cares if 1.0 sucked, it's history and for those $40 or whatever the game cost almost 3 years ago you got the game, more than a year playtime without monthly fee, access to the beta phase 3 of A Realm Reborn at the very latest and you get to download the new version of the game for no additional cost. I know, in a perfect world 1.0 would have simply kicked ass but the world isn't perfect and this seems like a much better alternative than the "F2P"-option that most games in the same situation goes for.
Bingo! You are dead on. That's the vibe I have been getting also. Also they don't stop on forums they get in to betas or trial accounts and bash the games there also lol.
Originally posted by tkreep If Final Fantasy 11 hav not gone free to play already after like 10+ years than i dont see how people think ARR will.
This x1000.
SE develops, publishes, and distributes their own games.
They are financially beholden to no one.
And they are going to make so, so much money off of the FF10 HD remakes, FF XV, and Kingdom Hearts 3, along with a probably Tomb Raider sequel (though SE is just the publisher).
Where do you people invent this stuff. Some other dude in the thread said it so now it's true?
shows they're a publicly traded company. So that is exactly who they're beholden to, the same as every other publicly traded company. Do you think just because they don't have to answer to a third party publisher's revenue demands they're off the hook? They answer to board and stockholders of SE and any parent companies. There are beholden just like everyone else. They just don't have to share their profits with an outside publisher.
Of course they are publicaly traded company. I thought my point was obvious.
All games are beholden to their players.
Why not argue that?
My point is that they have far LESS external pressure (financially) than other development studios with publishers.
You people love your semantics!
You figure with all of the publisher HATE on these boards, people would get it.
If FFXIV wasn't developed, published, and distributed by SE I highly doubt it would have given free time to players, shut down, been completely reworked, and soon re-released.
An external publisher would have forced layoffs, F2P conversion to try and recoup some costs, and maybe even closed the game down permanently.
We've all seen that exact pattern time and time again.
Originally posted by VikingGamer F2P is what greedy companies do with their failing games.
Makes no sense, greedy would be pulling no punches with a successful title, IE continually milking the cow. Failed would mean losing money, trying to turn that around isn't greed, it's smart business.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
So in order for the game to "make money" it has to recoup all development costs. Which are what? Keep in mind that a lot of the team working on FFXIV are Square Enix employees paid whether FFXIV exists or not. Either way you don't have this information, it probably hasn't recouped the development cost but at a studio that big how do you even know they expected it to considering its engine and many other assets at use were not even exclusive to this one title. You don't know any of that, you are just posting random financial stats for a company that makes everything from toys, to arcade machines, TV shows, and video games across nearly every platform and then trying to "tie it" to this game.
Your link though better than the one from 2011 (I mean come on, they weren't even charging subs yet in 2011) says nothing about FFXIV's cost related to the revenue it actually did generate (because again they started charging a subscription fee in early 2012, and had the playerbase increase threefold according to interview quoted earlier in these comments) for 2012. You are not playing "the voice of reason" you are trying to talk about things you do not know about by linking financial reports that do not detail what you claim they do only that the company as a whole reports a loss.
Instead of trying to report on investment news for Square Enix (and failing, April 2012 was still a long time ago you are getting closer but still pretty out of date here, at least you are going in the right direction?). Why not focus on the actual game so you can correct some of the errors people have pointed out in your article for your next impression. I don't think people are interested in your further delving into the financial state of Square Enix. We come here for gaming news, not to see random news contributors play financial analyst after they spent 15 seconds on google looking for a link that sounds like it backs up their assumptions and speculation.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
If free to play is the future of the western market then the future looks very grim....
I wont touch those failed pay to win mmo's.
I hope FF ARR has great succes and show that the market will support your product if you keep the game in top shape.
Lets hope for the sake of the genre all is not lost.
12345 every 1-2 seconds all day long on conjurer....rest of the game was really nice tho i quite liked it
but no cant pay for that one factor i just cannot enjoy & dev himself stated this system is here to stay for sure
hallo ~_~
@mcrippins Follow them on twitter, they've been mentioning sites giving away beta keys for both PC and PS3. Not ~that~ hard to get a key if you pay any kind of attention to it, also the open beta isn't too far off, probably.
Free to Play is not the future of the MMO market. It is the current reality. Let's just take a look at the remaining P2P MMOGs...
World of Warcraft has been bleeding subs over the past year, dropping millions of subs since cata came out, and from the looks of things this trend is going to continue. While you can argue all you want that they still have 8 million subs and are fine, you can't look me in the eyes and tell me that loosing 5 million subs in two years is not cause for alarm.
Eve Online has been holding out fairly well, though how much of this is due to it being the only real Sandbox title worth mentioning remains to be seen.
UO has long since passed it's prime, at this point I don't think even F2P could bring it back.
Warhammer flopped hard, but is still somehow chugging along.
Darkfall is a sad joke of a game, and I'll just leave it at that.
So, of all the remaining P2P games left, only 1 out of 5 are still retaining subs.
So, with this in mind, let's talk about FF14ARR....
Sqeenix... YOU ARE INSANE!!!!!!! Vanilla FF14 was one of the worst MMORPGs released in recent history, bombed so hard on release that you felt it nescesary to stop charging subs for an ENTIRE YEAR, then when that wasn't enough, you had to remake the game from scratch. Not to mention the fact that, thanks to recent events, both your company name, and the final fantasy brand are toxic to the gaming public.
And yet, despite all this, Square, you have the gall to charge $15 a month of ARR... in this market... after all the bad PR the original game got. The guys at square have a certain something made out of pure brass.
And, despite all of this, I'm already seeing the Final Fantasy fanboys pouring out of the woodworks. Grab your popcorn, folks, it's going to be one hell of a show.
The success of a P2P will be decided by its overall content, especially the end game content. With this I predict that ARR will prosper. SE has a history of constantly providing new content for their MMOs which is the reason FFXI has survived this long. Yoshida has stated on several occasions he will continue this practice. In addition there is more to ARR then leveling and dungeons. It has the best crafting system I have ever seen in a MMO. In addition to that Gathering is being revamped from Ver 1.0 form. If that is not enough then you have Grand Companies and all their activeties as well as siege type content. This is just what will be in the game at launch. Yoshida has outlined numerous additions for the year following launch. So, unless you are a retired old foggy like me who can play 10-12 hours a day there should always be something for you to do.
I prefer something like this as compared to what happened to Tera, especially are it went to F2P. That game has become strictly a cash grag with no real future. After playing Phase 3 Beta and checking up on what is planned half my Guild in Tera will be moving to ARR.
So in closing let me say, very few companies have the horsepower to pull off a successful P2P game. SE and Blizzard are the only 2 that I know off and we know of their success in P2P MMOs.
What a disgusting attitude you have. If you don't like a game's payment model, it should simply cease to exist even if there are people still enjoying the game. If we got rid of everything we didn't like, there'd be nothing left. Why don't you just avoid F2P games instead of wanting them all gone? Is it because you "care" about the genre and want to cull the "bad" games? If so, then you need to take a step back and gain some perspective on life.
As for XIV, the game is alright. If it were called anything other than Final Fantasy, I wouldn't care about it whatsoever, but since I'm a big fanboy of Final Fantasy, I find that I care more than I should. I think releasing and only offering P2P is a huge mistake as it's really nothing special as an MMO aside from the branding and aesthetic.
Games don't go F2P by choice but because they have to.
Yes Yoshida has said that they won't go F2P because they are their own investors but money is money. If they didn't make enough profit you really think they will be stubborn to continue as as P2P only because of some false ego?
Let me remind you that first version was a disaster and they hardly made any profit on it. Last time they decided to just rework on entire game but if this time population dwindled what would be their move? make a third version or go F2P? logic says F2P.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but you're able to equip more than three of another class' abilities (I believe an additional is unlocked every five levels or so). This increases depending on what level you are. I believe it it with the Advanced Jobs that you're only able to use three from a select group of classes.
There were a couple times I forgot I was still in combat it was so dull. I would find myself watching tv look at my monitor and realize I was still in combat..lol. it may get a bit better at later levels but man it would be a chore to get through the first part of the game. It appears to be a nice polished good looking game but graphics and polish only get you so far.Same here and I think that many players feel the same, especially older players (like me) who are used to the subscription model and to have all the features available.
It's actually 30 bucks, but I get the point.
The game is not $50, it has always been $29.99.Http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/product/
The thing I don't understand is if you guys don't like this game it's payment model, why even bother wasting your time bashing the game and spoiling it for the people who actually like this system?
<InvalidTag type="text/javascript" src="http://www.gamebreaker.tv/cce/e.js"></script><div class="cce_pane" content-slug="which-world-of-warcraft-villain-are-you" ctype="quiz" d="http://www.gamebreaker.tv"></div>;
I know it sounds weird but sometimes I get the feeling that there are these people that actually wish for new games to fail just so it'll hopefully go "F2P". Something about not having "F2P" access to big new MMOs seems to really bother some people.
And who cares if 1.0 sucked, it's history and for those $40 or whatever the game cost almost 3 years ago you got the game, more than a year playtime without monthly fee, access to the beta phase 3 of A Realm Reborn at the very latest and you get to download the new version of the game for no additional cost. I know, in a perfect world 1.0 would have simply kicked ass but the world isn't perfect and this seems like a much better alternative than the "F2P"-option that most games in the same situation goes for.
Bingo! You are dead on. That's the vibe I have been getting also. Also they don't stop on forums they get in to betas or trial accounts and bash the games there also lol.<InvalidTag type="text/javascript" src="http://www.gamebreaker.tv/cce/e.js"></script><div class="cce_pane" content-slug="which-world-of-warcraft-villain-are-you" ctype="quiz" d="http://www.gamebreaker.tv"></div>;
+1
All die, so die well.
Of course they are publicaly traded company. I thought my point was obvious.
All games are beholden to their players.
Why not argue that?
My point is that they have far LESS external pressure (financially) than other development studios with publishers.
You people love your semantics!
You figure with all of the publisher HATE on these boards, people would get it.
If FFXIV wasn't developed, published, and distributed by SE I highly doubt it would have given free time to players, shut down, been completely reworked, and soon re-released.
An external publisher would have forced layoffs, F2P conversion to try and recoup some costs, and maybe even closed the game down permanently.
We've all seen that exact pattern time and time again.
Makes no sense, greedy would be pulling no punches with a successful title, IE continually milking the cow. Failed would mean losing money, trying to turn that around isn't greed, it's smart business.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson