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Originally posted by Grakulen @Vannor. Those games were charging people. As long as this game is having legit betas we won't start the review.
ok, it was just the closing paragraph makes it sound like you were planning to review the open beta.
Originally posted by wowclones Originally posted by DMKano I think that 2-3 months post launch it will be painfully obvious to Square Enix how P2P is not a good model in the western markets anymore. That is where you see significant sub dropoff at the end of there 2nd month, and then due to low influx of new players you are left in a tough position. Decent game, but not strong enough to thrive as a P2P title in F2P market. Just my opinion, it will be interesting to see how this goes.
Couldn't have said it better. If people are able to max level before the 30 days of free play, this game is doomed. Going to be interesting to see a AAA title try subscription again. I am sure they already have the future plan laid out to go F2P when subs get low and box sales dry up.
Please tell me you are joking you can pretty much cap in WoW in a month if you do shit right yet it had a ton of subs. It will depend on if there is more content at max level and if there is player driven things more so than being able to cap level.... Considering you have multiple jobs/classes to level on top of that and 3 separate city stories it could do very well..
Originally posted by Vannor ok, it was just the closing paragraph makes it sound like you were planning to review the open beta.
I'll continue to share my impressions of the game once it gets into open beta but I would not use that to score the game.
Originally posted by silverreign Originally posted by Etherignis I hope this game stay p2p and keep the f2p garbage away from this game.
I hope so as well. Communities are kept somewhat decent when the game isn't free to play. I wish all these games going free to play would have a free player only server and leave the rest of the servers untouched. Most gamers don't want to play with teens, not even other teens.
Originally posted by Volkon "If you are five levels over the active FATE you can kickdown to match the level. If you choose to match the level of the FATE you will be rewarded with experience and money that is commensurate with the true level of your active job. You can also choose not to down level and over power the content. It is nice to run around and one shot mobs from time to time and really feel how powerful your character has become as opposed to how your character started off. Automatically down ranking characters would never allow for this." Great, just great. Let's give people the option of griefing lower level zones and players out of their content and see if they use it. What could possibly go wrong?
Yeah unfortunately, people in general can't be trusted and need these restriction.
Originally posted by Etherignis This discussion is like beating a dead horse, im looking forward too august 27, like i said before SE could have gave us the middle finger and took all the money they made from ffxiv 1.0 and move on but they didn't, its risky wat SE is doing by starting over and invest in ffxiv. Hey at least if u purchase ffxiv 1.0 u can dl ffxiv 2.0 for free.
Square Enix has not made money on FFXIV. In fact they have done nothing but lose money.
This is from their 2011 earnings (loss) report.
The quote is from then president Yoichi Wada.
"The Year’s Shortcomings
We did not have success from our new releases during the year.
Amid the intensification of competition in the console game software market, a polarization
has emerged between the very best games and those which do not earn a profit. Our mistake
was not reacting with sufficient regard to such an environment. We failed to thoroughly perfect
certain products in the rush to launch new IPs. The release of mid-class debut titles with an
intention to raise quality in future iterations can be seen as our failure. Further, we stumbled in the
launch of our “FINAL FANTASY XIV” online game, a title which held our utmost confidence.
Weakness was discovered in the management of the development organization. For this, we
must apologize to our customers and our shareholders. However, instead of giving up and shutting
down, we have renewed the team and are working hard to recover the FINAL FANTASY brand
and rebuild our presence in the MMORPG space. Progress is taking place at an extremely high
rate, and we are enthusiastic about the revival to “top-title” status in the near future.
Learning from these mistakes, we decided to concentrate our focus on approximately 10 new
and existing key franchises from the second half of the fiscal year under review. For these titles,
we have established a development system without compromise. As a result, we delayed the
launch of the upcoming “DEUS EX: HUMAN REVOLUTION” from the fiscal year under review
upon our decision to spend more time in further polishing the quality of the title.
The weakness of new releases, a stumble in “FINAL FANTASY XIV” and the delay of “DEUS
EX: HUMAN REVOLUTION” were the primary factors resulting in operating income of ¥7.3 billion,
substantially lower than forecast at the start of the fiscal year and the lowest level in our company history"
You can read the whole report on their website. This isn't cloak and dagger stuff. This is a corporation. They have investors.They have to report to them. No matter what any of them tell you. They just had a CEO step down this year because things are so bad.
In the interest of giving credit where credit is due I can only say bravo on their decision to rework the game and the speed at which they have made the changes. But don't let anyone from SE tell you for a minute they did this because the game was profitable but just didn't live up to their expectations. If they do they are just lying to your face.
I'm not in the least worried about it going F2P. There are more than enough people who see the benefit of P2P and are interested in the FF universe. I actually would quit if it ever went F2P because I know what it would mean for the advancement of the game, as in there would be no reason to invest my time if it turns out to have the sort of updates and gameplay additions that I see in F2P games.
I'll admit I didn't play the original FF XIV and I'm a HUGE fan of FF. This rendition of the game has sold me, through the information given before and now my experiences in beta. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this impression. With the new importance put on publicity and the refinement of the game there will be a substantial crowd not counting the relieved 1.0 players.
Originally posted by Grakulen Originally posted by Etherignis This discussion is like beating a dead horse, im looking forward too august 27, like i said before SE could have gave us the middle finger and took all the money they made from ffxiv 1.0 and move on but they didn't, its risky wat SE is doing by starting over and invest in ffxiv. Hey at least if u purchase ffxiv 1.0 u can dl ffxiv 2.0 for free.
In the interest of giving credit where credit is due I can only say bravo on their decision to rework the game and the speed at which they have made the changes. But don't let anyone tell you for a minute they did this because the game was profitable but just didn't live up to their expectations. If they do they are just lying to your face.
They're a humble yet proud company with the true Japanese spirit. Despite wanting something to live up to the name of Final Fantasy and the reputation Squareenix has, it was shame from releasing a less than successful iteration of the series when they have the manpower and creativity to do much better.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMkDark Age of Camelot
P2P? P2P??? Really, Square Enix???
Count me in!!! But, I hope there will be enough and challenging content, to keep me subbed more than 3 months.
Originally posted by Arthasm P2P? P2P??? Really, Square Enix??? Count me in!!! But, I hope there will be enough and challenging content, to keep me subbed more than 3 months.
After level 15 there is tons of group content from the 18 dungeons at release to guildhests, to fates, and PvP. Some of the solo missions for the main story and class story is also difficult which you will find out around level 10. And some parts of the main story also requires group dungeons. Im guessing getting the special artifact armor for each Job will also be very challenging. On top of that leveling other classes from level 1 to maximize your main class with their additional skills. There is a lot of other things to keep you busy too like hunting logs and levequests. And the crafters are their own class too that learn their own skills with a deep crafting system. And to top it off there will be housing with player neighbor hoods with up to 20-30 player houses in each instanced neighborhood, its similar to lotro housing.
I could go on and on about this and that, but what it comes down to is fun. During the phase 3 beta I have not been able to stop playing, this game is so addictive. Looking forward to release, playing these crappy F2P games is killing me. Rift while better than most F2P is nothing compared to FFXIV:ARR.
Is it Friday yet?
Originally posted by silvermember Originally posted by Laughing-man http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/17/final-fantasy-online-director-defends-monthly-subscriptions-in-the-golden-age-of-free-to-play-exclusive/ Please read this if you are thinking this game will go free to play. Thank you.
Ultimately the decision to go f2p or b2p is not up to the director BUT the company CEO. I have been here long enough to know that those comments are simply a buff until it's eventual f2p or b2p. The secret world and TERA guys did the exact same thing. So don't take it as it will never happen, take it as it will never happen as long as it meets a certain criteria.
Ultimately Naoki Yoshida has the complete backing of the "powers that be" at SE. It's been stated outright.
The problem I see in this discussion from a lot of people is several fold:
1. Based on arguments being made, people clearly aren't following the game.
2. Folks are clearly not aware, or are just ignoring the fact that SE is in a very rare position in the industry. They are the Developer and the Publisher. They are also a huge company with numerous income streams (publishing their own products, as well as others'), and can weather the long-term to earn back what they've invested. They set their own milestones. If they decide "5 years" (just an example) is an acceptable time period to make back their investment, then it will get 5 years.
Hell, how many other developers would be in the position to all but completely scrap their previous game and completely rebuild it from the ground up? How many other developers would continue developing and improving the current version of the game (1.0), while simultaneously designing and developing the new one? How many other developers would freeze subscriptions for almost a year until they felt the game was at a point where it was worth a subscription?
Speaking of that last bit... FFXIV 1.x actually increased its player base after subs were reinstated. Yes. That's a fact. Despite the game's failings, despite the fact that it was to be shut down and replaced, despite the fact that it would require a subscription to play, according to Naoki Yoshida, FFXIV 1.0 actually tripled its players in the last several months - and it was definitely noticeable in game while you were playing.
The game had gone from being a ghost-town during the frozen-subs period, to being active and quite lively during its subscription period. If they could manage that with a game as badly crippled as 1.0 was, I have no problem believing they can do the same, and far better, with ARR.
This is a perfect segueway into my next point...
3. People continue to underestimate - or at least under-appreciate - the enduring popularity of P2P/Subs. I swear it's mind-boggling how people (including the article's author) can continue pondering "whether P2P can work in the current market", or whether there's enough people who would be willing to pay for it. Do people not pay attention? The answer is a resounding 'Yes, there enough people who would go for P2P".
The question has been answered many times, in many ways, by many people. People have said, time and again (and again, and again, and again, ad infinitum), "if the game is fun enough, I have no problem paying a sub for it". And the key to it is right in the answer... "If the game is fun enough".
It's a design issue. Not a revenue model issue. Yet, people want to keep blaming it on the subscriptions. It's like seeing a car driven into a tree by a drunken driver, and then saying "it must have been the tires"... even though the tires are perfectly fine.
The blame is continuously and repeatedly misplaced, and I can't help but think it's not "accidental", considering most of the people (but certainly not all) who keep parroting it also tend to be pro-F2P.
If SE can deliver a game that is engaging and fun enough, to enough people, over a longer period of time, they will have no problem gaining and maintaining a healthy and adequate playerbase.
Originally posted by tommygunzII Is it Friday yet?
I'm going to be trying it on the PS3 this time and as a caster instead of my normal melee characters.
You see Gramul, here is why maybe I don't take what you write seriously.
The person you are quoting is claiming that FFXIV was improving and had made money.
Note that making money first of all doesn't mean making a profit. They made money from subscriptions and used that money to further develop the game, not to pay back investors they do not owe money to. The company reported a loss, however if you actually did any research into Square Enix you would know that online gaming is a very small part of their overall revenue/expenditures, it is just a segment they are trying to grow as part of a new direction they have been trying to head for several years.
Yes Final Fantasy XIV did not do as well as expected, they apologized for it many times, however your quoting of a 2011 article when they didn't even charge subcriptions at all until 2012 in order to somehow prove that they weren't making money off of the game under the sub model is getting kinda close to the realm of just making stuff up to defend your point.
Of course Final Fantasy XIV didn't make a lot of money in 2011, it came out in 2010, and then had an extended free trial the entire year of 2011. Obviously they weren't expecting to make money off of XIV that year or else I don't know... maybe they wouldn't have given free time to everyone the entire time.
But please, continue telling us how not to listen to anyone that tells you otherwise. Square Enix is desparate and their entire company is on the verge of bankruptcy if they don't "achieve the impossible" with an unheard of subscription model in this day and age, because you have "the facts".
Maybe get some more relevant facts next time to back up your claims. Maybe we can pitch in and buy you a new calendar so at least you can see what year it is.
A few mistakes in your write-up. You can have up to 10 abilities from other classes, not 3 like you've stated, and the spell 'cure' is from conjurer class, not the thaumaturge which is a spellcaster mage, not the healer.
It really makes me wonder just how much you played the game as compared to how much you don't know, and speaking to the community about your thoughts of your 10 hour journey?
Originally posted by danwest58 Why do we need to rehash the same shit over every day. The game will not become F2P. Yoshi already said the game will close down before it goes F2P. They also do not have investors and is the reason why they dont ever need to go F2P. I am getting tired of the disrespect all you F2P people continue to show. Everyday another new Topic on how FFXIV will fail and go F2P. dont you people get it, F2P is more expensive than $140 sub for a year. FFXIV will be fine as a P2P game. F2P will soon be just a fad that causes games to fail. The end.
I completely concur with this post. F2P is a disease in the genre. Nothing about it is free besides the download.
Playing: Smite, Marvel HeroesPlayed: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAgeWaiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
I think a lot of people are over looking some major things here.
1. SE is accounting for a huge flux in Subs for the first 3 months.They know this, I'm sure there is a graph in someones office depicting this.
2. Lots of people that play F2P and B2P will pay for this game. There are many people who have been waiting for a great Subs MMO to come around. There just hasn't been a great MMO for awhile. SWTOR had the chance and blew it badly.
3. WoW is bleeding. FFXIV will steal a lot more subs from it then I think people believe.
4. You're going to see a huge influx of FFXI players to FFXIV. It happened when 1.0 released, it will happen again.
5. FFXI & FFXIV are not meant for children. Paying 12.99 a month should not be an issue for an adult. That is basically skipping lunch 2 days a month. People will pay, Point blank.
6. FF is a VERY community driven Series. These games are not meant for MMO hoppers. You just won't keep up if you do. SE know this. They've made plans for lower Subs.
I can say for certain this game will have a lot more staying power then it is being given. A rabid fan base across the globe with the resources to back it up = Major staying power. Also, for those who question the end content? SE has already said they plan to release months worth of playing content on Launch day, with more coming over the next several months into the next year.
*holds up picket sign that reads Keep P2P!*
I can't stand the "F2P" model. It's never free, and ends up costing real players like myself alot more than $15 a month. I loved Rift, and played it from beta til the went F2P. I quit after F2P, I just can't stand the community that F2P brings, nor the store gouging, nor the other million things I hate about F2P. There isn't one single thing that is redeeming about the F2P model that I like. I will try F2P games, but...
I WILL NEVER PLAY FREE TO PLAY!
Originally posted by Gravarg *holds up picket sign that reads Keep P2P!* I can't stand the "F2P" model. It's never free, and ends up costing real players like myself alot more than $15 a month. I loved Rift, and played it from beta til the went F2P. I quit after F2P, I just can't stand the community that F2P brings, nor the store gouging, nor the other million things I hate about F2P. There isn't one single thing that is redeeming about the F2P model that I like. I will try F2P games, but... I WILL NEVER PLAY FREE TO PLAY! /rant hehe As for FFXIV, I haven't gotten to play it yet, but it looks fun to me. I loved FFXI. I actually got married in FFXI before I got married irl I am excited about FFXIV, and actually didn't mind the game before. It just felt incomplete.
Did you own version 1.0?
The thing I found out after playing all these B2P/F2P games is that I get bored of them really fast and always end up leaving them. It's either the poor community or seeing the cash shop icon and advertisements which always spoils my immersion or the lack of worth wile content.
Originally posted by Grakulen Originally posted by Gravarg *holds up picket sign that reads Keep P2P!* I can't stand the "F2P" model. It's never free, and ends up costing real players like myself alot more than $15 a month. I loved Rift, and played it from beta til the went F2P. I quit after F2P, I just can't stand the community that F2P brings, nor the store gouging, nor the other million things I hate about F2P. There isn't one single thing that is redeeming about the F2P model that I like. I will try F2P games, but... I WILL NEVER PLAY FREE TO PLAY! /rant hehe As for FFXIV, I haven't gotten to play it yet, but it looks fun to me. I loved FFXI. I actually got married in FFXI before I got married irl I am excited about FFXIV, and actually didn't mind the game before. It just felt incomplete.
yeah. I played it for quite awhile.