EVE has 5,000 explorable systems, and 2,500 Wormhole systems, totalling at 7,500 systems to check out and get blasted away in. Yeah travelling is the the second least exciting part of the game unless you're going through null, low, or WH space.
I don't see where you are getting this travel time is 2 to 5 times longer in Eve than any other mmo. I have to call BS on that. Eve takes less than a minute per jump and I very seldom have to jump more than 2 or 3 times while missioning. Sure it's a million times longer to get to one end of the game to the other, I'll give you that. But then again the game world is an ENTIRE GDAMN GALAXY!
I can't even begin to fathom the endless hours I've spent traversing various landscapes on mounts in you typical mmo's. I'm not even counting static travel paths like WoW has. GW2 is the only game that comes to mind with almost 0 travel time, but even then you can get a long run or two ahead of you. The travel time between quests or quests turn ins or quest hubs or even going to an instance.
Another thing, to go into a game about freakin' SPACESHIPS and not expect to travel is asinine. WTF do spaceships do BUT travel in space? It's kind of their thing.
An EVE player commented that 90% of players spend about 2-5 mins traveling between each activity. In a typical MMORPG it's more like 10-60 seconds between each new thing you do. So 2-5 times longer is about fair.
As for "it's a galaxy!", games aren't measured by world size, they're measured by fun.
Of course I expect some travel. Some travel is fine. Freespace 2 had some travel. In any entertainment medium you need to show some travel to establish the player's location in the world.
What I don't expect is to see all travel. Much like how you probably don't want to watch a year-long real-time-travel version of Lord of the Rings as a movie. You want to skip to the good parts.
There's only one EVE profession thats "all travel", and if you decided you wanted to be a contract hauler, then you can't expect us to have much sympathy for your complaints that there's too much travel.
If you just want to do combat missions, then typically you're going 0-2 jumps, then you're in a mission that lasts up to 45 minutes.
Wait. Wait. Wait.
Have you been autopiloting? I mean actually autopiloting, not just using the AP as a routefinder? You do know that you can just warp to zero to a gate, and that with an afterburner fitted it will never take you more than 7.5 seconds to get any subcap into warp? Right-click, left click, F2, 8 seconds.... in warp direct to gate and automatically jump through.
Because right now I'm picturing you taking 15 minutes to autopilot 2 jumps in your no-prop mod mission battleship and thinking man this sucks! and never actually asking how to move any quicker and being mad about it years later.
I don't see where you are getting this travel time is 2 to 5 times longer in Eve than any other mmo. I have to call BS on that. Eve takes less than a minute per jump and I very seldom have to jump more than 2 or 3 times while missioning. Sure it's a million times longer to get to one end of the game to the other, I'll give you that. But then again the game world is an ENTIRE GDAMN GALAXY!
I can't even begin to fathom the endless hours I've spent traversing various landscapes on mounts in you typical mmo's. I'm not even counting static travel paths like WoW has. GW2 is the only game that comes to mind with almost 0 travel time, but even then you can get a long run or two ahead of you. The travel time between quests or quests turn ins or quest hubs or even going to an instance.
Another thing, to go into a game about freakin' SPACESHIPS and not expect to travel is asinine. WTF do spaceships do BUT travel in space? It's kind of their thing.
An EVE player commented that 90% of players spend about 2-5 mins traveling between each activity. In a typical MMORPG it's more like 10-60 seconds between each new thing you do. So 2-5 times longer is about fair.
As for "it's a galaxy!", games aren't measured by world size, they're measured by fun.
Of course I expect some travel. Some travel is fine. Freespace 2 had some travel. In any entertainment medium you need to show some travel to establish the player's location in the world.
What I don't expect is to see all travel. Much like how you probably don't want to watch a year-long real-time-travel version of Lord of the Rings as a movie. You want to skip to the good parts.
There's only one EVE profession thats "all travel", and if you decided you wanted to be a contract hauler, then you can't expect us to have much sympathy for your complaints that there's too much travel.
If you just want to do combat missions, then typically you're going 0-2 jumps, then you're in a mission that lasts up to 45 minutes.
Wait. Wait. Wait.
Have you been autopiloting? I mean actually autopiloting, not just using the AP as a routefinder? You do know that you can just warp to zero to a gate, and that with an afterburner fitted it will never take you more than 7.5 seconds to get any subcap into warp? Right-click, left click, F2, 8 seconds.... in warp direct to gate and automatically jump through.
Because right now I'm picturing you taking 15 minutes to autopilot 2 jumps in your no-prop mod mission battleship and thinking man this sucks! and never actually asking how to move any quicker and being mad about it years later.
I remember when my alliancemates told me about slapping an MWD on an orca...align time went from ~30 seconds to ~7-10. All of my happy.
There's only one EVE profession thats "all travel", and if you decided you wanted to be a contract hauler, then you can't expect us to have much sympathy for your complaints that there's too much travel.
If you just want to do combat missions, then typically you're going 0-2 jumps, then you're in a mission that lasts up to 45 minutes.
Wait. Wait. Wait.
Have you been autopiloting? I mean actually autopiloting, not just using the AP as a routefinder? You do know that you can just warp to zero to a gate, and that with an afterburner fitted it will never take you more than 7.5 seconds to get any subcap into warp? Right-click, left click, F2, 8 seconds.... in warp direct to gate and automatically jump through.
Because right now I'm picturing you taking 15 minutes to autopilot 2 jumps in your no-prop mod mission battleship and thinking man this sucks! and never actually asking how to move any quicker and being mad about it years later.
The context of "all travel" in that post was whether every single second of a realistic amount of travel is forced on players
In a game like WOW, travel is abstract. In 5 minutes you can travel from an arctic biome to a forest biome to a desert biome. This obviously isn't all the time you'd expect to take to travel that far. If they portrayed all travel it would take weeks!
It's a little concerning that with each new EVE player's post the amount of jumps an average session requires shrinks, and the amount of time spent engaged with gameplay grows. 0-2 jumps per 45 mins of gameplay sounds acceptable, but is nothing anywhere close to what I experienced in EVE.
Thus far nobody's really directly contradicted my point that travel in EVE eats up more time, as a percentage of session length, than any other MMORPG. Are you saying that at some point it is reasonably close to a typical MMORPG, and that you're not making the game incredibly un-fun by playing that way? It doesn't really matter if you can potentially eliminate travel time in a game, if doing so means you don't get to enjoy all the game offers. I could never travel in WOW, but it would mean endlessly grinding the same mobs and missing out on the variety of fun activities the game offers.
I didn't autopilot. Except when on the verge of falling asleep or when I gave up and just AFKed.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think EVE provides a nice feel to travel. It can be lengthy for longer trips especially if AUTOPILOTING. I've done both types of travel. Mostly in smaller ships no larger than a Battleship.
But I have seen many of the ferries of the especially large hauling vessles and that is definately a dedication to time and effort there. As some align times seem to go on infinately while you watch the behemoth lurch into warp. It really adds a nice depth and meta-game to planning out proper time needed for such travels.
On occassion I've jumped 20-30 systems expecting some pewpews only to be met with a blob or no-contact and essentially turning right back around after forces have been called off. It's really all apart of the game and effects most players equally not considering jump bridge networks and all that.
Travel time in most games is a joke now. Teleport here, teleport there.. ride 3 mins and you're there. GW2, SWTOR, RIFT, TSW all of these games are pretty guilty of the same thing. It's just the norm now and with the screams for more "convenience" in our games I don't see this type of travel system leaving any time soon. I hope to see more games however that make travel an actual part of the gameplay and not just for changing out instances.
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
I can agree I spend more time flying/running around in eve than I do with other games. Mostly because I do a lot of exploration and roaming, which again is my choice - other ppl in this thread have shown there are several careers that dont involve much travel at all. I actually spend most of my flight time checking for the market or killboards, so I don't feel my time being wasted while doing it really..
I just don't see the point of having a large playable map if you can blitz from one corner to another in a second but that's just a personal pet peeve I have with a lot of games.
As for instant travel anywhere with trivial cost (global gk, or whatever flying bird that takes you anywhere), that is a big no-no. Travel times are a minor incovenience that is fully justified by enabling other interesting and/or unique aspects of the game. Pretty sure anyone that plays this game for more than a month will tell you the same thing.
One thing I really like in eve is that it rarely sacrifies the depht of the game for the sake of convenience. Some may not like it and call it unnecessary complexity when they fail to understand the grand scheme of things, but that really is a big + to me and many other players.
Thus far nobody's really directly contradicted my point that travel in EVE eats up more time, as a percentage of session length, than any other MMORPG. Are you saying that at some point it is reasonably close to a typical MMORPG, and that you're not making the game incredibly un-fun by playing that way? It doesn't really matter if you can potentially eliminate travel time in a game, if doing so means you don't get to enjoy all the game offers. I could never travel in WOW, but it would mean endlessly grinding the same mobs and missing out on the variety of fun activities the game offers.
I didn't autopilot. Except when on the verge of falling asleep or when I gave up and just AFKed.
I fully dispute the notes above, and offer evidence to the contrary
I haven't jumped more than a couple in jumps in a very long time and i have very good fun in fact im just logging out after 10hours of solid game play (minus downtime) and not made a single jump or flown anywhere...
Also, I had (until recently sold) a pirate toon who flew on average 3 jumps a day (restock ammo etc) but pvp'd solidly for 8+hours a day, again had great fun
If we work on the 2minute per jump i was travelling for 6minutes on 8hours pvp - so roughly 1.25% of my gametime travelling
today ive done 10hours with 0 jumps, and will be back on tomorrow for 6hours again dont expect to be undocking in fact i reckon will be about friday by time i fly my ship again, and yep i will be playing the game not just ship spinning in station
In fact 2 of my 3 toons are on average (this is clearly a guesstimate) travel combined for about 0.05% time +/- 10% and if i didn't have fun in the game then why have I continued to play for 7yrs...
Great comment about spaceships - why the hell would you play a game with spaceships and not travel. There are endless games out there where you have instant travel, if you want instant travel, go play those games. For me i will continue to trade and manage my assets and do some pi and plan my route for camps and even just enjoy watching my ship buzz through the universe In RP mode with my imagination immersing me in the game. Forced? Hell no, I love it.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
In a game like WOW, travel is abstract. In 5 minutes you can travel from an arctic biome to a forest biome to a desert biome. This obviously isn't all the time you'd expect to take to travel that far. If they portrayed all travel it would take weeks!
in 5 minutes I can travel from an ice planet to a temperate planet to a barren planet.
Well you are flying a FTL spaceship, so that's not necessarily abstract, but we'll pretend it is and I concede that it doesn't actually matter whether it's realistic travel times or abstract travel times, but simply how much time the player spends actively engaged in gameplay vs. forced to do nothing.
It's a pacing thing. You wouldn't watch a year-long version of Lord of the Rings which covers every second of their journey, would you? It would just be badly-paced entertainment. Same deal in games: players know when a game is deliberately wasting their time with empty filler which doesn't contribute to the overall experience.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I fully dispute the notes above, and offer evidence to the contrary
I haven't jumped more than a couple in jumps in a very long time and i have very good fun in fact im just logging out after 10hours of solid game play (minus downtime) and not made a single jump or flown anywhere...
Also, I had (until recently sold) a pirate toon who flew on average 3 jumps a day (restock ammo etc) but pvp'd solidly for 8+hours a day, again had great fun
If we work on the 2minute per jump i was travelling for 6minutes on 8hours pvp - so roughly 1.25% of my gametime travelling
today ive done 10hours with 0 jumps, and will be back on tomorrow for 6hours again dont expect to be undocking in fact i reckon will be about friday by time i fly my ship again, and yep i will be playing the game not just ship spinning in station
In fact 2 of my 3 toons are on average (this is clearly a guesstimate) travel combined for about 0.05% time +/- 10% and if i didn't have fun in the game then why have I continued to play for 7yrs...
your point is???
I'm not here to convince you you aren't having fun. It's simply expressing an opinion of why I didn't have fun in EVE.
Although I would be curious how much downtime was spent sitting around waiting (no gameplay) while pirating. You can include time spent analyzing potential targets who jumped through (as that's decision-making and therefore gameplay.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
That's the least of the reasons EVE is unenjoyable, haha! The massive chunk of time you spent traveling to that mission which involved no gameplay (just time-wasting) is the much bigger failing of the game.
Thankfully there are enough gameplay-filled games out there that we needn't waste out time with an empty game experience.
Lol like what games? The industry is still terrible right now and writled with broken sandboxes and WoW clones. EVE is the only solid meaningful P2P game out there right now, bad players just wont see it.
Meaningful? The meaning for all of these video games, apart from making money in tournaments in the competitive scene, is enjoyment and entertainment. How is eve the only 'meaningful' P2P game out there?
Many ppl complain about fast paced games these days (us older folks most likely ), where you are rushed from action to action, without getting breaks to think or to plan or just enjoy the scenery/atmosphere of the game. EVE is a game where you can do that, where you can set your own pace - what is wrong with that?
I can accept the opinion that travel time is 'wasted time', but i don't understand it.
Here's the nub of the matter raised here some people do not enjoy or understand the activities on offer when they travel in eve, therefore they have nothing to do, therefore it feels boring to that person. That does not mean that it is automatically barren and featureless for all , it just means the game is not designed with your needs in mind.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
The market economy is destroyed (distance and borders add value to trade)
pvp destroyed (imagine of you could instant teleport nuclear missiles in real life)
You now spend more time in stations because you can't trade/manage goods/pi etc while travelling.
Stations become irrelevant, you end up with a hub game aka wow where everyone congregates in 1 place and insta ports out to agents etc.
Pvp gate camps dead, portals irrelevant, suicide ganking dead, covert dead, blockade running dead, pvp in general dead, all alliances eventually killed off as the biggest fleet will eventually win by insta porting (see nuclear missiles above)
Jump freighters dead, tackling dead.
No sexy flying through universe.
.....
All because I'll conceived fast travel is added.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Travel in EVE gives countless time for other things in game. When I joined one corp I had to go from Gall space to the far side of Amarr space (thankfully hadn't pissed off the Amarr Fed to much yet) this entailed, due to me not knowing corp had a Rorqual for ship and container transport, 70 some odd jumps one way, thats 140 jumps round trip and I did it about 12 times over 2 days. Luckily didn't get suicide ganked during the runs. During the jumps I was going through various sites including EVEmon for fits for everything from an Enyo to a Hyperion, or in lay terms assault frig to battleship. When I was done moving everything I had fits for all types of mission running for damage dealing and tanking. That equates to around 4 builds per ship and I had to move 6 ships plus several Iteron 3s with cargo extenders of crap. If EVE had insta travel I would have to spend more time than I had alloted for gaming to find and save those builds. Another move I set up the main path for my latest character to end up in the Kronos, and I still need to finish several skills in Engineering, Mechanic's, Electronics, and Science. GAHH I want to get back into EVE now.
Originally posted by Bladestrom This is what happens if you had travel in eve:
The market economy is destroyed (distance and borders add value to trade)
pvp destroyed (imagine of you could instant teleport nuclear missiles in real life)
You now spend more time in stations because you can't trade/manage goods/pi etc while travelling.
Stations become irrelevant, you end up with a hub game aka wow where everyone congregates in 1 place and insta ports out to agents etc.
Pvp gate camps dead, portals irrelevant, suicide ganking dead, covert dead, blockade running dead, pvp in general dead, all alliances eventually killed off as the biggest fleet will eventually win by insta porting (see nuclear missiles above)
Jump freighters dead, tackling dead.
No sexy flying through universe.
.....
All because I'll conceived fast travel is added.
To be fair to Axel, he did say that travel was absolutely necessary to EVE, just that he didn't like it.
Personally I think he's exaggerating the issue rather, but tastes vary. At this stage in the thread all i'll say is that EVE gives you the tools to solve or at least mitigate most problems, and travel times are no exception. If 2 minutes is too much for people like Axelhilt, then so be it; he wants a different kind of experience than the one EVE provides.
That's the least of the reasons EVE is unenjoyable, haha! The massive chunk of time you spent traveling to that mission which involved no gameplay (just time-wasting) is the much bigger failing of the game.
Thankfully there are enough gameplay-filled games out there that we needn't waste out time with an empty game experience.
Lol like what games? The industry is still terrible right now and writled with broken sandboxes and WoW clones. EVE is the only solid meaningful P2P game out there right now, bad players just wont see it.
Meaningful? The meaning for all of these video games, apart from making money in tournaments in the competitive scene, is enjoyment and entertainment. How is eve the only 'meaningful' P2P game out there?
Usually when people use that adjective w.r.t. MMOs, the idea being conveyed is that what you do has meaning to the larger context of the game. EVE is entirely built on this concept: everything you do changes everyone else's experience of the game however infinitessimally.
I'm a recovering EVE player - 2 years clean and counting, go me. This is pretty much a spot on description.
It's one of those games? which you can use a lot of complimentary adjectives in describing: intelligent, complex, immersive. Probably the best thing you can say about it is it's very ambitious.
Problem is, it's not FUN. It's a fuking internet job. One day I just say 'fuk that', and went out and did handstands instead. Happier for it, too.
Originally posted by SybnalI don't see where you are getting this travel time is 2 to 5 times longer in Eve than any other mmo. I have to call BS on that. Eve takes less than a minute per jump and I very seldom have to jump more than 2 or 3 times while missioning. Sure it's a million times longer to get to one end of the game to the other, I'll give you that. But then again the game world is an ENTIRE GDAMN GALAXY! I would expect nothing less.
[/quote]
Ah, in other games it's seamless going from one zone to another. In EvE you can be hopping through 22 gates (from Caldari space to Amarr for example) and that ride will take you over 20 minutes.
20 minutes one way. All the time. Everyday.
Longest travel time I had in WoW for example was exactly 15mins (and wasn't needed, but to test the time it took. We can hearth or use portals there instead). Only instant travel in EvE is using a jump clone...with a whopping 24hr cool down.
PvP games are crap for stunts like that to "encourage" PvP (forcing players to ride long routes to be willing PvP fodder).
The point is though in wow you can do nothing while you travel. In eve IF you enjoy what eve has to offer then you can do those activities whe you travel. It's a moot point though, fast travel would destroy eve (may e not other games). Btw I'm a pve player through and through, hate pvp
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom The point is though in wow you can do nothing while you travel. In eve IF you enjoy what eve has to offer then you can do those activities whe you travel. It's a moot point though, fast travel would destroy eve (may e not other games). Btw I'm a pve player through and through, hate pvp
On any of my mounts I have total control of where I can travel (except for a couple PvP and fatigue zones); what I can do while traveling (no different than what can been done in EvE) and there's no "on grid" or "off grid" crap to deal with. I'm not pushed through a tube linearly to get from point A to point B, I travel as I prefer...and even the portals in WoW doesn't have this silly gate animation, either.
Plus, there's no 30 jumps needed to get from point A to point B. No need the game has instant travel on a 15min timer (not 24hrs).
There's a reason why WoW is the #1 MMO those travel nuisances don't exist.
I'm a recovering EVE player - 2 years clean and counting, go me. This is pretty much a spot on description.
It's one of those games? which you can use a lot of complimentary adjectives in describing: intelligent, complex, immersive. Probably the best thing you can say about it is it's very ambitious.
Problem is, it's not FUN. It's a fuking internet job. One day I just say 'fuk that', and went out and did handstands instead. Happier for it, too.
And yet you still played it for 2 years. Your personal idea of 'fun' doesen't seem to apply to the remaining 500k people playing it so far, so chances are you a) played a game you didn't like for a long time (masochism?) or b) don't have anything better to do than whine about a game you don't play anymore. The amount of time you spent playing it more than shows it's capable of keeping someone interested for a long time, despite hating the game, even! how many other games can do that?
Comments
There's only one EVE profession thats "all travel", and if you decided you wanted to be a contract hauler, then you can't expect us to have much sympathy for your complaints that there's too much travel.
If you just want to do combat missions, then typically you're going 0-2 jumps, then you're in a mission that lasts up to 45 minutes.
Wait. Wait. Wait.
Have you been autopiloting? I mean actually autopiloting, not just using the AP as a routefinder? You do know that you can just warp to zero to a gate, and that with an afterburner fitted it will never take you more than 7.5 seconds to get any subcap into warp? Right-click, left click, F2, 8 seconds.... in warp direct to gate and automatically jump through.
Because right now I'm picturing you taking 15 minutes to autopilot 2 jumps in your no-prop mod mission battleship and thinking man this sucks! and never actually asking how to move any quicker and being mad about it years later.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I remember when my alliancemates told me about slapping an MWD on an orca...align time went from ~30 seconds to ~7-10. All of my happy.
The context of "all travel" in that post was whether every single second of a realistic amount of travel is forced on players
In a game like WOW, travel is abstract. In 5 minutes you can travel from an arctic biome to a forest biome to a desert biome. This obviously isn't all the time you'd expect to take to travel that far. If they portrayed all travel it would take weeks!
It's a little concerning that with each new EVE player's post the amount of jumps an average session requires shrinks, and the amount of time spent engaged with gameplay grows. 0-2 jumps per 45 mins of gameplay sounds acceptable, but is nothing anywhere close to what I experienced in EVE.
Thus far nobody's really directly contradicted my point that travel in EVE eats up more time, as a percentage of session length, than any other MMORPG. Are you saying that at some point it is reasonably close to a typical MMORPG, and that you're not making the game incredibly un-fun by playing that way? It doesn't really matter if you can potentially eliminate travel time in a game, if doing so means you don't get to enjoy all the game offers. I could never travel in WOW, but it would mean endlessly grinding the same mobs and missing out on the variety of fun activities the game offers.
I didn't autopilot. Except when on the verge of falling asleep or when I gave up and just AFKed.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
A man walks into a bar and yells "I hate beer" .
The man is surprised by being hit in the face with a bottle.
I think EVE provides a nice feel to travel. It can be lengthy for longer trips especially if AUTOPILOTING. I've done both types of travel. Mostly in smaller ships no larger than a Battleship.
But I have seen many of the ferries of the especially large hauling vessles and that is definately a dedication to time and effort there. As some align times seem to go on infinately while you watch the behemoth lurch into warp. It really adds a nice depth and meta-game to planning out proper time needed for such travels.
On occassion I've jumped 20-30 systems expecting some pewpews only to be met with a blob or no-contact and essentially turning right back around after forces have been called off. It's really all apart of the game and effects most players equally not considering jump bridge networks and all that.
Travel time in most games is a joke now. Teleport here, teleport there.. ride 3 mins and you're there. GW2, SWTOR, RIFT, TSW all of these games are pretty guilty of the same thing. It's just the norm now and with the screams for more "convenience" in our games I don't see this type of travel system leaving any time soon. I hope to see more games however that make travel an actual part of the gameplay and not just for changing out instances.
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
I can agree I spend more time flying/running around in eve than I do with other games. Mostly because I do a lot of exploration and roaming, which again is my choice - other ppl in this thread have shown there are several careers that dont involve much travel at all. I actually spend most of my flight time checking for the market or killboards, so I don't feel my time being wasted while doing it really..
I just don't see the point of having a large playable map if you can blitz from one corner to another in a second but that's just a personal pet peeve I have with a lot of games.
As for instant travel anywhere with trivial cost (global gk, or whatever flying bird that takes you anywhere), that is a big no-no. Travel times are a minor incovenience that is fully justified by enabling other interesting and/or unique aspects of the game. Pretty sure anyone that plays this game for more than a month will tell you the same thing.
One thing I really like in eve is that it rarely sacrifies the depht of the game for the sake of convenience. Some may not like it and call it unnecessary complexity when they fail to understand the grand scheme of things, but that really is a big + to me and many other players.
I fully dispute the notes above, and offer evidence to the contrary
I haven't jumped more than a couple in jumps in a very long time and i have very good fun in fact im just logging out after 10hours of solid game play (minus downtime) and not made a single jump or flown anywhere...
Also, I had (until recently sold) a pirate toon who flew on average 3 jumps a day (restock ammo etc) but pvp'd solidly for 8+hours a day, again had great fun
If we work on the 2minute per jump i was travelling for 6minutes on 8hours pvp - so roughly 1.25% of my gametime travelling
today ive done 10hours with 0 jumps, and will be back on tomorrow for 6hours again dont expect to be undocking in fact i reckon will be about friday by time i fly my ship again, and yep i will be playing the game not just ship spinning in station
In fact 2 of my 3 toons are on average (this is clearly a guesstimate) travel combined for about 0.05% time +/- 10% and if i didn't have fun in the game then why have I continued to play for 7yrs...
your point is???
This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game
where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
To catch you up, what actually happened:
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Well you are flying a FTL spaceship, so that's not necessarily abstract, but we'll pretend it is and I concede that it doesn't actually matter whether it's realistic travel times or abstract travel times, but simply how much time the player spends actively engaged in gameplay vs. forced to do nothing.
It's a pacing thing. You wouldn't watch a year-long version of Lord of the Rings which covers every second of their journey, would you? It would just be badly-paced entertainment. Same deal in games: players know when a game is deliberately wasting their time with empty filler which doesn't contribute to the overall experience.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I'm not here to convince you you aren't having fun. It's simply expressing an opinion of why I didn't have fun in EVE.
Although I would be curious how much downtime was spent sitting around waiting (no gameplay) while pirating. You can include time spent analyzing potential targets who jumped through (as that's decision-making and therefore gameplay.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Meaningful? The meaning for all of these video games, apart from making money in tournaments in the competitive scene, is enjoyment and entertainment. How is eve the only 'meaningful' P2P game out there?
I don't get it, tbh.
Many ppl complain about fast paced games these days (us older folks most likely
), where you are rushed from action to action, without getting breaks to think or to plan or just enjoy the scenery/atmosphere of the game. EVE is a game where you can do that, where you can set your own pace - what is wrong with that?
I can accept the opinion that travel time is 'wasted time', but i don't understand it.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
The market economy is destroyed (distance and borders add value to trade)
pvp destroyed (imagine of you could instant teleport nuclear missiles in real life)
You now spend more time in stations because you can't trade/manage goods/pi etc while travelling.
Stations become irrelevant, you end up with a hub game aka wow where everyone congregates in 1 place and insta ports out to agents etc.
Pvp gate camps dead, portals irrelevant, suicide ganking dead, covert dead, blockade running dead, pvp in general dead, all alliances eventually killed off as the biggest fleet will eventually win by insta porting (see nuclear missiles above)
Jump freighters dead, tackling dead.
No sexy flying through universe.
.....
All because I'll conceived fast travel is added.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Travel in EVE gives countless time for other things in game. When I joined one corp I had to go from Gall space to the far side of Amarr space (thankfully hadn't pissed off the Amarr Fed to much yet) this entailed, due to me not knowing corp had a Rorqual for ship and container transport, 70 some odd jumps one way, thats 140 jumps round trip and I did it about 12 times over 2 days. Luckily didn't get suicide ganked during the runs. During the jumps I was going through various sites including EVEmon for fits for everything from an Enyo to a Hyperion, or in lay terms assault frig to battleship. When I was done moving everything I had fits for all types of mission running for damage dealing and tanking. That equates to around 4 builds per ship and I had to move 6 ships plus several Iteron 3s with cargo extenders of crap. If EVE had insta travel I would have to spend more time than I had alloted for gaming to find and save those builds. Another move I set up the main path for my latest character to end up in the Kronos, and I still need to finish several skills in Engineering, Mechanic's, Electronics, and Science. GAHH I want to get back into EVE now.
I am Arubak and I approve this message.
To be fair to Axel, he did say that travel was absolutely necessary to EVE, just that he didn't like it.
Personally I think he's exaggerating the issue rather, but tastes vary. At this stage in the thread all i'll say is that EVE gives you the tools to solve or at least mitigate most problems, and travel times are no exception. If 2 minutes is too much for people like Axelhilt, then so be it; he wants a different kind of experience than the one EVE provides.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Usually when people use that adjective w.r.t. MMOs, the idea being conveyed is that what you do has meaning to the larger context of the game. EVE is entirely built on this concept: everything you do changes everyone else's experience of the game however infinitessimally.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Eve Online is a screen saver.
1. Bored 2. Bored 3. Bored 4. Eyestrain.
Ha!
I'm a recovering EVE player - 2 years clean and counting, go me. This is pretty much a spot on description.
It's one of those games? which you can use a lot of complimentary adjectives in describing: intelligent, complex, immersive. Probably the best thing you can say about it is it's very ambitious.
Problem is, it's not FUN. It's a fuking internet job. One day I just say 'fuk that', and went out and did handstands instead. Happier for it, too.
Ah, in other games it's seamless going from one zone to another. In EvE you can be hopping through 22 gates (from Caldari space to Amarr for example) and that ride will take you over 20 minutes.
20 minutes one way. All the time. Everyday.
Longest travel time I had in WoW for example was exactly 15mins (and wasn't needed, but to test the time it took. We can hearth or use portals there instead). Only instant travel in EvE is using a jump clone...with a whopping 24hr cool down.
PvP games are crap for stunts like that to "encourage" PvP (forcing players to ride long routes to be willing PvP fodder).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
On any of my mounts I have total control of where I can travel (except for a couple PvP and fatigue zones); what I can do while traveling (no different than what can been done in EvE) and there's no "on grid" or "off grid" crap to deal with. I'm not pushed through a tube linearly to get from point A to point B, I travel as I prefer...and even the portals in WoW doesn't have this silly gate animation, either.
Plus, there's no 30 jumps needed to get from point A to point B. No need the game has instant travel on a 15min timer (not 24hrs).
There's a reason why WoW is the #1 MMO those travel nuisances don't exist.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
And yet you still played it for 2 years. Your personal idea of 'fun' doesen't seem to apply to the remaining 500k people playing it so far, so chances are you a) played a game you didn't like for a long time (masochism?) or b) don't have anything better to do than whine about a game you don't play anymore. The amount of time you spent playing it more than shows it's capable of keeping someone interested for a long time, despite hating the game, even! how many other games can do that?
haters gonna hate