while it may be consensual PvP, are all NPCs killable, because I rember on PvE WoW server people would go around and camp contacts so people couldt do their missions.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
I'd be happy with FFA PvP if there was some way to guarantee every player on my server was a roleplayer. But in fact I am more likely to kill ganked just because I am roleplaying.
I'm sorry, it breaks my immersion when a random Holy Paladin just ganks me out of no where because he felt like it and then tea bags me.
If a really good RPer was trying to play a Highwayman or something and tried to rob me. I would fight him regardless of whether the game mechanics actually forced me to or not. But keeping away the in game trolls is plenty enough reason to not have FFA PvP.
Don't forget that it costs nothing to create a new account because this game will be F2P. So ban someone for being a jerk and they laugh and make five more or ten or twenty. /shrug
People keep using that argument, but there's nothing to support it being a reality beyond a possible rare occurrence. I mean, if that was regularly happening, we'd have hundreds of free to play games and their forums to link to with examples of this. One would think that either gamers would have stopped playing free to play games by now or the devs would have come up with a solution for this problem.
So, is it possible this problem you suggest is possible, but in reality not all that probable?
errr what are you talking about this is in fact a issue in several F2P MMOs, and has been stated on forums before.
errr I didn't say it wasn't, just that it's rare. Now, if you have data or links that suggests otherwise then errr share it?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Non-consensual PVP is not going to happen on all servers. It's just realistic people the market is too small. If you want to invest millions into a new game, trash your best IP, and betray everyone of the players who stuck with EQ for 14 years make a open world forced PVP game you think people were pissed about the NGE.
There will obviously be PVP and PVP will be important to the game but expecting a darkfall EQ you're setting yourself up to be let down. I like to PVP, but I don't like to be forced into it every time I log in.
People who say the market is too small, really do not have anything to back that statement up. For one, what's too small? I mean if you are talking bigger potential player base the better, the World of Warcraft clone has a far larger potential player base than any other type of MMORPG on the market and we see how that has worked out for so many games. We also see how the scrapping of the first two iterations of EQN and the development of a sandbox EQN shows that SOE is not developing EQN for the largest potential player base.
How do you figure ? People don't want a wow clone they have plenty . People are sick of wow even people playing wow are just waiting for that next game that does something new.
New and different does not = open world PVP that is not new its not different several dozen games have it or have tried it and failed.
All of the speculation EQN will be an open world PVP game are unfounded and based of one quote that everyone has a different meaning to.
You better believe smed is going for a bigger crowd here he doesn't want another game with 200k players he already has a few of them.
The irony of this conversation is that people on this forum will argue that the PVP market is too small, but then in another thread call for things like corpse runs, experience loss, mob grind, item camping, and long leveling times as if there is some magical large market for that.
Maybe a small group(me included) dont mind timesink and corpse run experience loss mob grind item camping or long lvling, but there is no large market for this, thats fact.
There is also only very small group of hardcore players that will play hardcore games involving fulloot or even permadeath, and don't mind gankers or pkers they deal with that problem themsellfs but thats a very small group.
Darkfall uw have safezones becouse majority are not realy hardcore.
DayZ and i play on hardcore server start with nothing daily people loging and cry why someone shot them WTF why they even bother buying arma 2 and downloaded DayZ mod.
Its the ignorant majority who blindly buy games that seems to be popular for short well just before or during launch and then find out its harsh game and massively start crying to change the game.
Darkfall and so many have suffer this carebear virus:(
If SOE has levels and I am sure they will since they always have, the rules from EQ1 were great.
There was an 8 level range in which you could PVP, 4 levels below you, and 4 levels above you. Instead of Full Loot they had it so you lost all your coin you had on you, all crap in your inventory (not bags) plus 1 item from your gear!
As a Dark Elf Necro I spent a lot of my younger life in Crushbone, me and some friends would sit up in the tower and leave our pets below on the bridge, as DE we were welcomed there, but the other races were no welcomed. When we would see a group near the bridge pets would be sent in for the attack and it would have awesome to see the look on their faces like WTF?
There are many ways to do PVP but for me (my opinion) I do not want to work to get things just to lose everything because of a gank squad! I also do not see this jail system working, if I had to spend 5 hours of game time sitting in jail and not being able to play, no matter what I did to get there, I would quit the game. Why pay for something you cannot play because some jumped in front of my fireball and made me the bad guy even if I never intended to attack another player. As for getting captured after too many PKs and going on trial and being perma-deathed, this I would like more than jail time, it would definitely keep you on your toes, and make the game interesting.
As for EQ2 Naggy was the most populated server for the longest time, it only went down hill when SOE changed it around.
Being married changes how you game. My wife wont play a game where she has to be worried about getting her butt kicked while she is picking flowers. I am sure a open world FFA PvP game done well could get a nice player base. Linage II is still doing very well but EQN is not the game for that.
Wholeheartedly disagree with the OP. PvP in itself cannot carry a game. EVE is a piss poor example of a successful game because I am most definitely certain that SOE wants a larger audience than < 100K subscribers (most of which are multiple account holders). For EQ Next to dominate it needs to be focused on PvE with elements of PvP.
I think everyone is missing the point of the PVE vs PVP argument. The point is, SOE is a business and will do whatever it can to make maximum profit. This includes implementing changes that go against the mainstream paradigm even at the risk of alienating their existing fanbase. Because if they build something truly amazing, innovative and sustainable, new players will come in droves and they will stay.
Why take the risk? Smedley explained that the devs put tonnes of money into developing expansions that players burn through at an alarming rate. And when they're done with that content, they move on to the other 1000 clone games on the market, never quite finding the one that's "just right". They don't come back until SOE spends another chunk of their fortune developing more content. Clearly, there is a goldmine to be had in a game where the players keep playing and spending between expansions. That's Smedley's theory, and he mentions EVE as an example of a sandbox that gets players totally invested in creating their own content and conflict to keep things interesting. By the way: Smedley implies it's non-consensual, open-world PVP (i.e. Hulkageddon) that keeps EVE interesting.
Some people on the forum are saying SOE won't go this route because "EverQuest has never been about PVP" and they will lose a big chunk of the existing fanbase. SOE just doesn't care because there is a way bigger return on investment in making something different from the games they made in the past. And judging by the impressions of editors from MMORPG.COM and TenTonHammer, this game is likely a triple-A blockbuster that will retain fans for a long time.
One final point... although some people claim the fanbase is categorically against this change, I disagree. ice-vortex did a poll where about half of the 300+ respondents said they would still play even if this game is open-world, non-consensual PVP. Holy cow! People are ready for change.
So yeah. If SOE builds it, they will come. And they'll stay.
Delusional fanatic. Can't take you seriously when you froth at the mouth like a Baptist preacher.
EQ had non consensual PVP actually. And the PVP servers died, there is only 1 left, while there are 16 PVE servers.
Some people like non-consensual PVP, but you're delusional if you think it's anything more than a small niche market.
Here son, show us on the doll where the bad pvpers touched you (I am seriously sick of your narrowminded, judgemental replies to any thread with this topic, either make a valid comment on its, PVP's, place in a future, not passed, EQ game with actual facts behind your arguments and I might not just start taking apart the jokes you call arguments).
You know, half of the reason PVE players refuse to do any PVP at all has to do with the attitude problem PVP players have. There's this need to be confrontational with you players, something you don't find on PVE servers.
And the doll didn't touch me anywhere you crazy creep.
+1
The guy you responded to illustrates everything that's wrong with the typical PvP mindset. The less of that in any game the better, IMO.
The game developer who designs a sandbox with compelling world and story and encourages open-world PvP while discouraging d-bag griefer behavior will take the play style from niche to mainstream.
No one has done it yet, although EVE was on the right track.
The answer seems so simple, even DAOC had it right 10 years ago. Make a large area PvP, and put valuable stuff in it so people will want/need to go into the zone. Either for mats, or for outposts, etc. Then make the rest of the world non-PvP.
This allows for both types of gameplay. Remove either one, and lose some market. Go full FFA PvP and lose 95% of the market. What it doesn't allow is griefers attacking people whenever and wherever they want.
If the PvP is Non-consensual, no they will not stay.
Most MMO gamers dont like PvP that is on someone elses terms.
These type of people need to grow a backbone and learn how to PvP. Thats the whole point of PvP is making the other person fight on your terms.
LOL
well now, how does it feel to be part of the problem?
I can play too: "you type of players should develop some empathy and realize that not everyone enjoys or wants to have the same play experience"
It's always difficult to have discussions where I admit I love pvp because automatically players associate me with those pvp players who drag the pastime into the gutter.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The answer seems so simple, even DAOC had it right 10 years ago. Make a large area PvP, and put valuable stuff in it so people will want/need to go into the zone. Either for mats, or for outposts, etc. Then make the rest of the world non-PvP.
This allows for both types of gameplay. Remove either one, and lose some market. Go full FFA PvP and lose 95% of the market. What it doesn't allow is griefers attacking people whenever and wherever they want.
The answer is doing what Smed and co have always done, have server rulesets.
The answer seems so simple, even DAOC had it right 10 years ago. Make a large area PvP, and put valuable stuff in it so people will want/need to go into the zone. Either for mats, or for outposts, etc. Then make the rest of the world non-PvP.
This allows for both types of gameplay. Remove either one, and lose some market. Go full FFA PvP and lose 95% of the market. What it doesn't allow is griefers attacking people whenever and wherever they want.
The answer is doing what Smed and co have always done, have server rulesets.
PVP
RPPVP
PVE
RPPVE
Simple.
This sounds like it might work. Except, how many games have separate PvE and PvP servers, where the PvP servers are thriving and full?
edit: and it doesn''t help players like me that want to do both
Originally posted by exwin Great, make PvP servers and PvE servers and everyone is happy. Problem solved.
Yup, not hard to do.
On contrary all the devs I talk to say its a pain in the ass to have 2 rule sets and 2 code branches - it is undesirable and much harder to support, for very little gain usually.
Things that seem not a big deal from a players perspective are not always like that in reality.
It's what every major MMO on the market does. I think, if they want a successful EQ for years to come, it is an inconvenience they'll have to deal with. If not, they can go work for WarZ.
The answer seems so simple, even DAOC had it right 10 years ago. Make a large area PvP, and put valuable stuff in it so people will want/need to go into the zone. Either for mats, or for outposts, etc. Then make the rest of the world non-PvP.
This allows for both types of gameplay. Remove either one, and lose some market. Go full FFA PvP and lose 95% of the market. What it doesn't allow is griefers attacking people whenever and wherever they want.
The answer is doing what Smed and co have always done, have server rulesets.
PVP
RPPVP
PVE
RPPVE
Simple.
This sounds like it might work. Except, how many games have separate PvE and PvP servers, where the PvP servers are thriving and full?
edit: and it doesn''t help players like me that want to do both
If the PVPer are not enough to fill up there own pvp servers then that's down to the lack of people wanting to PVP, why should PVE's suffer for the lack of PVPers?
EQ ip has always had separate servers, i don't think EQN will change that.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle This place is going to be a lot less fun when this FFA PvP things is cleared up =-) PvPForum is almost as fun as PvP itself =-)
Yup, when the people who think EQN is going to be the next Darkfall In Norrath realize that it's not the big next PVP game they were hoping for it's going to be fireworks. And when they realize that Smed's sandbox is not quite what many of us would call a sandbox it's going to be even more fun.
No fear though, there is always a true sandbox that offers everything you would expect from a true sandbox game.
Explore huge, diverse landmasses extending over 512sq km in total!
Modify the terrain; dig, raise, flatten and sculpt the land around you!
Make your home on either the PvP or PvE server, two different ruleset severs in a sandbox game, oh my.
Craft and use thousands of unique items.
Wage war on other kingdoms, and lead yours to victory.
Discover and fight over religious artifacts on the PvP server.
Capture and breed animals from the environment.
Train 133 Skills, 10 Player Characteristics, and 3 Religion Characteristics.
Follow one of four unique deities and religions.
Hunt creatures such as the unique red dragon, forest giant, kyklops, troll king and others!
Become a priest or champion of your religion and learn powerful spells and enchantments.
Choose one of five meditation paths and take advantage of special meditation abilities.
Earn as many of our 200+ skill and achievement titles as you have time for!
Mount various creatures, from horses and carts to unicorns, bears and even dragons!
Construct, crew or even captain six different ship types with other players, from small rowing boats to impressive caravels.
Build a variety of structures, from guard towers to stone houses to fences and statues.
Found your own settlement wherever you desire; own land, build a farm, a castle, or perhaps an entire village!
Pave roads to connect settlements and plant signs to improve local infrastructure.
Live off the land by creating fields to farm a variety of crops including potatoes, garlic, cotton, wheat, strawberries, pumpkins and more!
Can Smed really claim that EQN is the biggest sandbox mmo ever made, i expect to see all of the above features in EQN. If the game is even missing one of the above features then Smed has lost.
Comments
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
These type of people need to grow a backbone and learn how to PvP. Thats the whole point of PvP is making the other person fight on your terms.
only because getting ganked has little to no consequences to the player getting ganked - period
full loot as so many think they want will create a typical empty server
errr I didn't say it wasn't, just that it's rare. Now, if you have data or links that suggests otherwise then errr share it?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Maybe a small group(me included) dont mind timesink and corpse run experience loss mob grind item camping or long lvling, but there is no large market for this, thats fact.
There is also only very small group of hardcore players that will play hardcore games involving fulloot or even permadeath, and don't mind gankers or pkers they deal with that problem themsellfs but thats a very small group.
Darkfall uw have safezones becouse majority are not realy hardcore.
DayZ and i play on hardcore server start with nothing daily people loging and cry why someone shot them WTF why they even bother buying arma 2 and downloaded DayZ mod.
Its the ignorant majority who blindly buy games that seems to be popular for short well just before or during launch and then find out its harsh game and massively start crying to change the game.
Darkfall and so many have suffer this carebear virus:(
If SOE has levels and I am sure they will since they always have, the rules from EQ1 were great.
There was an 8 level range in which you could PVP, 4 levels below you, and 4 levels above you. Instead of Full Loot they had it so you lost all your coin you had on you, all crap in your inventory (not bags) plus 1 item from your gear!
As a Dark Elf Necro I spent a lot of my younger life in Crushbone, me and some friends would sit up in the tower and leave our pets below on the bridge, as DE we were welcomed there, but the other races were no welcomed. When we would see a group near the bridge pets would be sent in for the attack and it would have awesome to see the look on their faces like WTF?
There are many ways to do PVP but for me (my opinion) I do not want to work to get things just to lose everything because of a gank squad! I also do not see this jail system working, if I had to spend 5 hours of game time sitting in jail and not being able to play, no matter what I did to get there, I would quit the game. Why pay for something you cannot play because some jumped in front of my fireball and made me the bad guy even if I never intended to attack another player. As for getting captured after too many PKs and going on trial and being perma-deathed, this I would like more than jail time, it would definitely keep you on your toes, and make the game interesting.
As for EQ2 Naggy was the most populated server for the longest time, it only went down hill when SOE changed it around.
How many top-rated popular games out there are FFA PvP? -- One
How many top-rated popular games are NOT FFA PvP -- all the rest
Might be a lesson in there.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Wholeheartedly disagree with the OP. PvP in itself cannot carry a game. EVE is a piss poor example of a successful game because I am most definitely certain that SOE wants a larger audience than < 100K subscribers (most of which are multiple account holders). For EQ Next to dominate it needs to be focused on PvE with elements of PvP.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Delusional fanatic. Can't take you seriously when you froth at the mouth like a Baptist preacher.
I read a few pages of replies and was amazed that nobody picked up on the fact that this is quite a leap in assumption from what was said.
Anyway, the bulk of Western gamers (especially EQ players) don't go in for PvP, let alone mandatory PvP, so I just can't see it happening.
Even SOE aren't that blind to the market.
Top rated FFA PvP yes, but still only has 45K -60K players. SOE would go broke going FFA PvP
+1
The guy you responded to illustrates everything that's wrong with the typical PvP mindset. The less of that in any game the better, IMO.
The game developer who designs a sandbox with compelling world and story and encourages open-world PvP while discouraging d-bag griefer behavior will take the play style from niche to mainstream.
No one has done it yet, although EVE was on the right track.
The answer seems so simple, even DAOC had it right 10 years ago. Make a large area PvP, and put valuable stuff in it so people will want/need to go into the zone. Either for mats, or for outposts, etc. Then make the rest of the world non-PvP.
This allows for both types of gameplay. Remove either one, and lose some market. Go full FFA PvP and lose 95% of the market. What it doesn't allow is griefers attacking people whenever and wherever they want.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
LOL
well now, how does it feel to be part of the problem?
I can play too: "you type of players should develop some empathy and realize that not everyone enjoys or wants to have the same play experience"
It's always difficult to have discussions where I admit I love pvp because automatically players associate me with those pvp players who drag the pastime into the gutter.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The answer is doing what Smed and co have always done, have server rulesets.
PVP
RPPVP
PVE
RPPVE
Simple.
This sounds like it might work. Except, how many games have separate PvE and PvP servers, where the PvP servers are thriving and full?
edit: and it doesn''t help players like me that want to do both
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
It's what every major MMO on the market does. I think, if they want a successful EQ for years to come, it is an inconvenience they'll have to deal with. If not, they can go work for WarZ.
If the PVPer are not enough to fill up there own pvp servers then that's down to the lack of people wanting to PVP, why should PVE's suffer for the lack of PVPers?
EQ ip has always had separate servers, i don't think EQN will change that.
Yup, when the people who think EQN is going to be the next Darkfall In Norrath realize that it's not the big next PVP game they were hoping for it's going to be fireworks. And when they realize that Smed's sandbox is not quite what many of us would call a sandbox it's going to be even more fun.
No fear though, there is always a true sandbox that offers everything you would expect from a true sandbox game.
If the PvP is Non-consensual, i won´t ven bother trying the game out.
So SOE is doing the right thing.
a lot of people in the thread don't even understand the concept.
it has been running for years because it has been true and well know since pre-Trammel UO.
All die, so die well.