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Most underestimated design issue : Mob AI

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  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    So, still think AI doesnt take an incredible amount of processing power?

    I think you underestimate my understanding of computational complexity.

  • NizurNizur Austin, TXPosts: 1,417Member

    For me, a combination of Ryzom's and DF's would be nearly perfect.

    Ryzom has great fauna "AI". Herding, migration, protecting each other, one group hunting another, etc.

    DF had mobs that wouldn't wait for you to get within a small agro circle before attacking. If you were in LOS, you were getting attacked. They also didn't just stand there getting hit. They'd dodge and block. They'd run for backup. It made the mobs much more challenging and fun.

    Current: None
    Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
    Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
    Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,444Member Uncommon

    FFXi ,as mentioned ,not always but in  many cases.

    There is only so much you can do and FFXI pushes the limits to the max.This is proven by so many fights now being a simple Ninja Tank and one healer .

    Having Ai that is too good as proven in case of FFXI can and does actually make the combat worse.Example you play all game with a group of 6,maybe your best friends.Now you end up in Abyssea fighting some high Ai mob,your only choice is to go in one Ninja Tank also your DPS and have the WHM stay out of range of AOE.Too many players feed TP,then the mob uses a dangerous TP move that can wipe everyone,especially relevant if too many feeding it TP.

    Some mobs have dangerous attacks if any player is behind or some have frontal cone attacks or AOE,so there is never a safe place to stand.A few mobs have morphing abilities,changing from one class to another or being all melee resistant or all magic resistant or range only/melee only.

    This is why in many games,players prefer to KITE,they don't have to stay in range of dangerous melee AI.

    Also FFXI does something no other game does,that i know of.it has MORE aggro systems,scent/hit points,sound ,sight and magic.Most games are sight or proximity.

    In MOST games mobs act like a group on the SAME AI,in FFXI you might have 3 mobs,one will cast Protect on all 3 and also heal steadily.In other words ALL mobs have classes where some games the entire set is the same class.Also many mobs use their 2 hour abilities  either whenever or near death.There are cattipillar mobs that if you run through water,they can lose scent of you and stop.

    Also just as in other games,the mobs will actually move and try to disrupt your alignment,however in case of FFXI they will eventually settle down if you line them just right.I did however play a game a few years ago where the mobs would keep moving so you couldn't get behind them.However that kind of AI is too predictable because they do the same thing all the time.


    Samoan Diamond

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,444Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    As much as i know there is no MMO with any noteworthy mob AI. They have either more or less no AI or are bound into a fixed script, like some Boss Mobs.

    Well they are all scripted and fixed for the most part.Mobs will given priorities in the script to use a special move at some interval be it 75% or 50% health or at a certain TP and some might heal when at 50% health ect ect.They are always going to be scripted commands,there is no such thing as artificial intelligence.

    Well sorry there actually is but would take  very complex code and need  hours to run lol,i don't think anyone could wait hours for the next move.

    A good AI is one that  has enough parameters in it's script to react to most circumstances without looking too fake or predictable.Example if you fought a mob and every time you did 200 dmg ,it follows up with a 200 healing spell,that would be  an unplayable game.So AI needs to be good but not too good,so in reality,there is never going to be a perfect AI.


    Samoan Diamond

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maplestone
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    AI takes up an incredible amount of processing power.

    I'm not convinced it has to.  Nature is full of simple clusters of reflexes that produce "intellgent" responses to stimuli.

    Individually no. That's why boss AI can be better. Now imagine hundreds of bosses reacting differently to different stimuli input from hundreds of different users simultaneously. They would have to individually poll dozens of states continuously rather than the few they do now. That's just for the most basic level of AI.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    MMOs don't have real AI. It's mostly  pathing, animation cycles and agro radius. The most complicated thing you'll see a few event based special behaviors mostly limited to boss mobs. AI takes up an incredible amount of processing power.

    Offcourse MMOs dont have real AI when people talk about AI in an MMO they talk about mob behaviour.

     

    In a non combat situation there might be NPCs cooking, talking dancing patrolling  and having conversations that you can listen in on. I consider this advanced NPC behaviour actually neededt to make the world alive.

     

    no, i am allways wondered why ennemie NPCs allways directly attack instead of talking firts, screaming at me telling me to leave, or just telling me to pay the zoll for trespassing or turning straight back. 

     

    And yes i know all mobs in combat are scripted, but why do they allways repeat the same sequence, to make combat more interesting they could add some randomness to it.  That would make things much more dynamic. 

     

    Now i know its hard to make fights challenging, because you need to give the player characters the feel that they are strong and special, so you cant have them reach the brink of death every fight, but what you need to do is make the whole system so that if they make wrong decisions a lot of stuff might for example add to the fight turning roles and make the player hunter the hunted.

     

    and what about mobs on a lash, and all having the same detection cycle. I think they should change that, there could be mobs that attack you when in line of sight, and other mobs might attck while to close. Or just move out of your way when to close,  while other mobs patrol areas with the single goal to hunt things and or players.

    and what when you are hunted down by a stream of angry. orcs, when will they stop hunting you, when they reach a certain point, when the distance between you and the mobs gets to big, when they find another ennemie?  Bring back diversity, remove a lot of the leashes, and let mobs that have been training you but lost or killed you wreack havock on the way back instead of just running back to their place of orrigin.

    also there are annimals like bears that slowly move alone, while other annimals like wolves move around sneaky and in packs. 

     

    there can be done a lot to spice up the world, sadly still many mmos think its enough to place NPC ennemies at strategical points and keep them there

     There are loads of potential areas to improve upon in these games.  Not sure how players will react to them.  I suspect many players just want to level as quickly as they can. 

    Why can't roaming patrols notice that many of those under their protection are suddenly dead?  They were alive a few minutes ago when they past by?  What about couriers running from one npc group to another with important information?  If the information doesn't arrive, what might that cause to happen?

    A dragon feasts daily on many gnolls and thus keeps their numbers in check.  When PCs kill the dragon the power vacuum causing a large increase in the number of gnolls.  They start raiding towns.  That is smart ai.

    I would like to see quest branching and NPCs reacting better to them.  The church sends a paladin on a quest to recovery an ancient holy sword from a lost tomb, but the paladin keeps the sword for himself as it is obviously going to do more good and god must have wanted him to have (good + law).

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon
    Koreans make the best dungeon masters, it's in their dna. Too bad none of you have the gall to experience what I speak of. If a boss in 2013 isn't fighting for it's life, then it's a garbage boss.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    "Balance" is the magic word that destroys mob AI.

    Leveling combat must be "balanced" so that even the weakest of individual classes (generally healers) can solo in every situation.

    This results in mobs that don't flee, don't summon aid, don't CC players, etc. Elite mobs? Goodbye. Low density, spread-out mobs that do not wander about much.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Redemp
     As much as I think Darkfall's AI got lucky and wasn't built to interact the way it does, or simply is just programmed to  act randomly  the AI in that game should be a standard starting point for future sandboxes.

    Have to agree AV prob done the best job on AI out off all the game developers ive seen however its could be improved greatly i would love to see what a AAA dev company could do if they they put there mind to making decent AI instead of heavily scripted encounters.

    Here one of the weakest mobs in Darkfall alot more intresting than ur typical mob also it can kill u if fairy easily as a newbie and they were the weakest mobs in the game u had to run away and heal from these suckers if u had more than 1 hitting u at a time when u started playing :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDETajj4Q8Q

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    MMOs don't have real AI. It's mostly  pathing, animation cycles and agro radius. The most complicated thing you'll see a few event based special behaviors mostly limited to boss mobs. AI takes up an incredible amount of processing power.

    Offcourse MMOs dont have real AI when people talk about AI in an MMO they talk about mob behaviour.

     

    In a non combat situation there might be NPCs cooking, talking dancing patrolling  and having conversations that you can listen in on. I consider this advanced NPC behaviour actually neededt to make the world alive.

     

    no, i am allways wondered why ennemie NPCs allways directly attack instead of talking firts, screaming at me telling me to leave, or just telling me to pay the zoll for trespassing or turning straight back. 

     

    And yes i know all mobs in combat are scripted, but why do they allways repeat the same sequence, to make combat more interesting they could add some randomness to it.  That would make things much more dynamic. 

     

    Now i know its hard to make fights challenging, because you need to give the player characters the feel that they are strong and special, so you cant have them reach the brink of death every fight, but what you need to do is make the whole system so that if they make wrong decisions a lot of stuff might for example add to the fight turning roles and make the player hunter the hunted.

     

    and what about mobs on a lash, and all having the same detection cycle. I think they should change that, there could be mobs that attack you when in line of sight, and other mobs might attck while to close. Or just move out of your way when to close,  while other mobs patrol areas with the single goal to hunt things and or players.

    and what when you are hunted down by a stream of angry. orcs, when will they stop hunting you, when they reach a certain point, when the distance between you and the mobs gets to big, when they find another ennemie?  Bring back diversity, remove a lot of the leashes, and let mobs that have been training you but lost or killed you wreack havock on the way back instead of just running back to their place of orrigin.

    also there are annimals like bears that slowly move alone, while other annimals like wolves move around sneaky and in packs. 

     

    there can be done a lot to spice up the world, sadly still many mmos think its enough to place NPC ennemies at strategical points and keep them there

     There are loads of potential areas to improve upon in these games.  Not sure how players will react to them.  I suspect many players just want to level as quickly as they can. 

    Why can't roaming patrols notice that many of those under their protection are suddenly dead?  They were alive a few minutes ago when they past by?  What about couriers running from one npc group to another with important information?  If the information doesn't arrive, what might that cause to happen?

    A dragon feasts daily on many gnolls and thus keeps their numbers in check.  When PCs kill the dragon the power vacuum causing a large increase in the number of gnolls.  They start raiding towns.  That is smart ai.

    I would like to see quest branching and NPCs reacting better to them.  The church sends a paladin on a quest to recovery an ancient holy sword from a lost tomb, but the paladin keeps the sword for himself as it is obviously going to do more good and god must have wanted him to have (good + law).

    Dynamic events is one thing, but what you and i are actually asking for is a dynamic world. Add the dynamic events to the stuff we jusr described and give the players some immersive voiced over main quests that set them out intoo the area and you got what i am hoping that EQnext is doing.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • timtracktimtrack StockholmPosts: 414Member Uncommon

    I liked the old WoW raid boss "AI" (Molten Core, Blackwing Lair). In most of the fights the bosses jut had their abilities, and they used them as soon as they went off cooldown, just like a player would. It was quite simplistic, but still fun. It would be cooler if they were more random and/or "intelligent", as in that they could better assess the situation and use abilities accordingly, so add-ons with ability timers and such wouldn't work. I'm not much for the newer strictly scripted encounters where you get locked in to different predictable phases. Deathwing for example was a horrible fight in my opinion.

    Go back to basic and try again i say!

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    WoW has the best mob AI .. back in WOTLK, tier-9, there is an encounter called Faction Champion.

    The mobs behaves as players. They don't use an aggro table (and can go attack mage/healer first), they use class abilities, they heal, ....

    What happened? Players complained it is too hard, and it was nerfed, and never done again.

    I don't know. GW was like that all the way and it sold 7 million copies. I think WoW players may be used to one type of encounters so they're expecting just that.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower RdamPosts: 1,245Member

    DayZ mod had some real nice additions to game implementing NPC'S with some darn good AI that many players constantly losing and scrying they where out smarted and killed by npc's bots.

    They moved dynamicly around world killing zombies or if threatend kill players you had bandits who where very dangerous and you need to becarefull to be outsmarted by npc's.

    Was awesome but it did not last long most players started to hate them losing to a npc's.

    This should be future improvements DYNAMIC npc's/mob's and weather systems with realistic sounds, which would improve immersion ALOT.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,536Member Uncommon

    Mob AI is tricky - I remember an interview I read with an AI programmer who worked at SOE basically saying that if built AI that was too good it would kill gameplay.

    Example - your group goes into a dungeon - you have a tank, healer, CC and DPS - your group is well balanced and ready to go.

    So you enter, there are couple of lowly goblins guarding the first room, the AI makes them sound alarms and the ENTIRE dungeon rushes your group, killing the cleric first, then the rest of your group.

    He said that this type of AI was easy to do, like making sure mobs would always kill the healers first (makes sense) - but it would totally ruin gameplay, as your group would always get swarmed and die.

    Or stuff like having rangred mobs kite you, he said they tried it in EQ devtest, and it was just way too frustrating for classes without snare.

    So they have to dumb down AI for the sake of gameplay, you make it too smart, the game becomes impossible, if its too dumb then the player would find it too easy and boring.

    This is why AI is still pretty dumb - gameplay

     

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,473Member Uncommon
    Nope DM.

    We had a game with the stuff you're talking bout. And it was epic. It's name?

    Guild Wars.

    As for the question why is mob AI as it is, I'd venture a guess that those things you listed are merely excuses. Cheap cop outs on the basis of player complacency, player lazyness and player stupidity(avg player is pretty dim). So, the game "has"(wtf? It doesn't "have" to anything) to be as approchable as possible so all those lazy, complacent and dim players could get it.

    In GW ranged mobs kited and used CC. They used normal skills(the same ones that players themselves used most often) and made a good use of snares and disables. Group vs group composition only helped fuel the awesome tactical feel of GW. Mobs even targeted squishy healers first(which I, as a Healer, wish to relive again. Enough of stupid aggro mechanics tyvm-make Warriors useful in some other ways{Guard from Warhammer online comes to mind...}). There two things that need to be said of GW tho. First one would be that you don't feel necessarily special. If you take lvl 20 Dervish mob and compare it to you(you being a lvl 20 Dervish as well), he is only slightly weaker. Now if that was a named mob(let's say Lady Myish is lvl 20{instead of 32 lol!}), you'd be in one hell of a fight. It has got brawns and you have got brains. Let the games commence! Second, is not for everyone. But then again I hate mediocre "for everyone" entertainment.

    You can imagine how I felt when I played a true MMO for the first time(coming from GW). I was blessed it was WAR, thinking in a retrospective. The mobs there were challenging but dim. Is ok I guess. Now if I landed in WoW I'd have been like: O.0 "why are these mobs so weak, so stupid? Why don't they use Real skills???"->you get it. Now I daydream about GW and WAR lol. Also about Warhammer Fantasy game with TES mechanics, but that one hasn't even been made yet lol! Oh and my favourite daydream is me seeing "The Sundering" trilogy in cinema. OMG to see IMRIK ON BIG SCREEN{IMAX} O.0 0.O! Lol ME WANTS <3 <3.<br />
    Anyhow... :) (but :( for the state of MMOs)
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Mob AI is tricky - I remember an interview I read with an AI programmer who worked at SOE basically saying that if built AI that was too good it would kill gameplay.

    Example - your group goes into a dungeon - you have a tank, healer, CC and DPS - your group is well balanced and ready to go.

    So you enter, there are couple of lowly goblins guarding the first room, the AI makes them sound alarms and the ENTIRE dungeon rushes your group, killing the cleric first, then the rest of your group.

    He said that this type of AI was easy to do, like making sure mobs would always kill the healers first (makes sense) - but it would totally ruin gameplay, as your group would always get swarmed and die.

    Or stuff like having rangred mobs kite you, he said they tried it in EQ devtest, and it was just way too frustrating for classes without snare.

    So they have to dumb down AI for the sake of gameplay, you make it too smart, the game becomes impossible, if its too dumb then the player would find it too easy and boring.

    This is why AI is still pretty dumb - gameplay

    You can't possibly believe that the strawman you just gave us would be an acceptable explanation why AI in MMORPGs is subpar.

    Your second mistake is to think about AI from the perspective of holy trinity. I am sure that any game that implements advanced AI will not utilize the age old holy trinity and the encounter design will reflect whatever the new roles and mechanics that game uses.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • djazzydjazzy louisville, COPosts: 3,578Member

    I have found that the best mob AI has been in FPS games. mmos could take a page out of their book.

    I remember seeing a video about this in mmos, I think it was a gamebreaker video with a game business developer. He mentioned that games could very well make improved AI but they have found that a majority of players actually don't want it. And to make your game financially viable you really have to design it to the lowest common denominator.

  • GorweGorwe Ald'RuhnPosts: 2,473Member Uncommon
    Besides, quir knows what I was talking about:

    Basically GW 1 with the addition of Guard mechanic from WAR. That'd be so awesome! As well as various mechanics of guard(Split damage, reduced damage to the guardee while increased damage to you, immunity to critical hits to guardee, ...) could make Tactics attribute really enticing and viable. Not to mention that it'd make Wars completely viable...
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    WoW has the best mob AI .. back in WOTLK, tier-9, there is an encounter called Faction Champion.

    The mobs behaves as players. They don't use an aggro table (and can go attack mage/healer first), they use class abilities, they heal, ....

    What happened? Players complained it is too hard, and it was nerfed, and never done again.

    I don't know. GW was like that all the way and it sold 7 million copies. I think WoW players may be used to one type of encounters so they're expecting just that.

    It may be .. but at the time of WOTLK, WOW certainly had a lot more than 7M subs .. and those are subs, not just sold copies.

  • SpellforgedSpellforged Belvidere, ILPosts: 458Member
    I think all MMORPGs are severely lacking when it comes to AI.  More than 90% of the NPCs just stand around in one spot and the mobs spawn endlessly in the same spot waiting to be killed.  Why can't they add some AI and schedules to the NPCs like the Elder Scrolls games?  Anything to liven the game up and a bit and make it seem less hollow.  Take Elder Scrolls NPC AI and combine that with the monster AI of Monster Hunter.  Just add a bunch of players to the mix and you'd have an incredibly dynamic gameplay experience.

    image
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Ujirik
    I think all MMORPGs are severely lacking when it comes to AI.  More than 90% of the NPCs just stand around in one spot and the mobs spawn endlessly in the same spot waiting to be killed.  Why can't they add some AI and schedules to the NPCs like the Elder Scrolls games?  Anything to liven the game up and a bit and make it seem less hollow.  Take Elder Scrolls NPC AI and combine that with the monster AI of Monster Hunter.  Just add a bunch of players to the mix and you'd have an incredibly dynamic gameplay experience.

    They can but players don't want it.

    In Skyrim, if the shopkeeper is out sleeping, you can hit a button and 8 hours have passed, and the shopkeeper shows up.

    In a MMO, you can do that, so vendors have to stay in place. Otherwise people will complain.

    BTW, there *are* NPCs with a schedule in WOW. Just very few of them.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,455Member Uncommon
    Dark Fall
  • SpellforgedSpellforged Belvidere, ILPosts: 458Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Ujirik
    I think all MMORPGs are severely lacking when it comes to AI.  More than 90% of the NPCs just stand around in one spot and the mobs spawn endlessly in the same spot waiting to be killed.  Why can't they add some AI and schedules to the NPCs like the Elder Scrolls games?  Anything to liven the game up and a bit and make it seem less hollow.  Take Elder Scrolls NPC AI and combine that with the monster AI of Monster Hunter.  Just add a bunch of players to the mix and you'd have an incredibly dynamic gameplay experience.

    They can but players don't want it.

    In Skyrim, if the shopkeeper is out sleeping, you can hit a button and 8 hours have passed, and the shopkeeper shows up.

    In a MMO, you can do that, so vendors have to stay in place. Otherwise people will complain.

    BTW, there *are* NPCs with a schedule in WOW. Just very few of them.

    Could just have every NPC wander around a bit.  Maybe some quest NPC near a battlefield will occasionally wander around and launch an attack on the enemy.  I'm not saying every NPC has to go to sleep but every NPC should at least move around and change location every now and then.  The shopkeeper thing is an easy fix though.  You can keep the day/night schedules and keep the AI routines, but simply have them take shifts.  You know, one shopkeeper works 12 hours and then goes home after being replaced by another.

    image
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Ujirik
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Ujirik
    I think all MMORPGs are severely lacking when it comes to AI.  More than 90% of the NPCs just stand around in one spot and the mobs spawn endlessly in the same spot waiting to be killed.  Why can't they add some AI and schedules to the NPCs like the Elder Scrolls games?  Anything to liven the game up and a bit and make it seem less hollow.  Take Elder Scrolls NPC AI and combine that with the monster AI of Monster Hunter.  Just add a bunch of players to the mix and you'd have an incredibly dynamic gameplay experience.

    They can but players don't want it.

    In Skyrim, if the shopkeeper is out sleeping, you can hit a button and 8 hours have passed, and the shopkeeper shows up.

    In a MMO, you can do that, so vendors have to stay in place. Otherwise people will complain.

    BTW, there *are* NPCs with a schedule in WOW. Just very few of them.

    Could just have every NPC wander around a bit.  Maybe some quest NPC near a battlefield will occasionally wander around and launch an attack on the enemy.  I'm not saying every NPC has to go to sleep but every NPC should at least move around and change location every now and then.  The shopkeeper thing is an easy fix though.  You can keep the day/night schedules and keep the AI routines, but simply have them take shifts.  You know, one shopkeeper works 12 hours and then goes home after being replaced by another.

    "Could just have every NPC wander around a bit."

    .. and some do. Some quest and dungeon NPCs routinely patrol in WOW. In fact, "watch for pat" is quite a standard thing in dungeons.

    "You can keep the day/night schedules and keep the AI routines, but simply have them take shifts.  You know, one shopkeeper works 12 hours and then goes home after being replaced by another."

    what is the point if all it does is you see a different name on top of the NPC but it is always there, and sell you the same things? May as well keep the same name. I doubt many will notice or care.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    MMOs don't have real AI. It's mostly  pathing, animation cycles and agro radius. The most complicated thing you'll see a few event based special behaviors mostly limited to boss mobs. AI takes up an incredible amount of processing power.

    Offcourse MMOs dont have real AI when people talk about AI in an MMO they talk about mob behaviour.

     

    In a non combat situation there might be NPCs cooking, talking dancing patrolling  and having conversations that you can listen in on. I consider this advanced NPC behaviour actually neededt to make the world alive.

     

    no, i am allways wondered why ennemie NPCs allways directly attack instead of talking firts, screaming at me telling me to leave, or just telling me to pay the zoll for trespassing or turning straight back. 

     

    And yes i know all mobs in combat are scripted, but why do they allways repeat the same sequence, to make combat more interesting they could add some randomness to it.  That would make things much more dynamic. 

     

    Now i know its hard to make fights challenging, because you need to give the player characters the feel that they are strong and special, so you cant have them reach the brink of death every fight, but what you need to do is make the whole system so that if they make wrong decisions a lot of stuff might for example add to the fight turning roles and make the player hunter the hunted.

     

    and what about mobs on a lash, and all having the same detection cycle. I think they should change that, there could be mobs that attack you when in line of sight, and other mobs might attck while to close. Or just move out of your way when to close,  while other mobs patrol areas with the single goal to hunt things and or players.

    and what when you are hunted down by a stream of angry. orcs, when will they stop hunting you, when they reach a certain point, when the distance between you and the mobs gets to big, when they find another ennemie?  Bring back diversity, remove a lot of the leashes, and let mobs that have been training you but lost or killed you wreack havock on the way back instead of just running back to their place of orrigin.

    also there are annimals like bears that slowly move alone, while other annimals like wolves move around sneaky and in packs. 

     

    there can be done a lot to spice up the world, sadly still many mmos think its enough to place NPC ennemies at strategical points and keep them there

     There are loads of potential areas to improve upon in these games.  Not sure how players will react to them.  I suspect many players just want to level as quickly as they can. 

    Why can't roaming patrols notice that many of those under their protection are suddenly dead?  They were alive a few minutes ago when they past by?  What about couriers running from one npc group to another with important information?  If the information doesn't arrive, what might that cause to happen?

    A dragon feasts daily on many gnolls and thus keeps their numbers in check.  When PCs kill the dragon the power vacuum causing a large increase in the number of gnolls.  They start raiding towns.  That is smart ai.

    I would like to see quest branching and NPCs reacting better to them.  The church sends a paladin on a quest to recovery an ancient holy sword from a lost tomb, but the paladin keeps the sword for himself as it is obviously going to do more good and god must have wanted him to have (good + law).

    Dynamic events is one thing, but what you and i are actually asking for is a dynamic world. Add the dynamic events to the stuff we jusr described and give the players some immersive voiced over main quests that set them out intoo the area and you got what i am hoping that EQnext is doing.

     I knew it might come off sounding like dynamic events, but I mean it the other way you could look at it.

    As to world differences.  Look at the many wow servers, they are all the same (not talking server types).  You go to a location and it's the same on all of them.  If we could clear out a keep of the mobs spawning in there, we might have horde owning it on one server and alliance on another.  Other things such as building bridge to cross rivers would be nice.

    I would love to see PCs able to create quests for other players.  Like guild leaders or crafters.  Not just simple kill thing missions but rp stuff like races or parties.

    Other cool stuff,  Take an instance like shadow fang keep, clear it and allow people to invite others inside for RP partying.  That could be fun.

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