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Originally posted by bcbully Weapons and gear can't drop if you want a player driven economy. Everything needs to be player made. It's kinda like a sandbox pillar...
I understand that but I disagree wit hit, because then, at least IMO it ruins all sense of actually performing combat in the first place.
I understand where you're coming from, I really do, but as a lover of the sandbox elements in Asheron's Call, I feel dropped loot can be part of a sandbox world. Ad for as proving my point about dropped loot and I know some will call DAoC not a sandbox but there was a game that featured a very robust and vibrant Crafting system, and the loot drops didn't detract from it one bit.
IMO Crafters need to be their own professions. Adventurers should not be able to become full fledged crafting specialists, this way both crafters and adventurers form a symbiotic organism. That is one of the things that made AC and DAoC crafters as wanted and meaningful.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Very good thread... I remember fondly searching for cracked staffs.
I don't think mobs need to not drop items to make crafting important. Crafted items just need to be worth making, better than drops and also don't force the crafter to have to equip a global army's worth of crap armor to get to meaningful recipes.
Help support an artist and gamer who has lost his tools to create and play: http://www.gofundme.com/u63nzcgk
Originally posted by bcbully Weapons and gear can't drop from mobs if you want a player driven economy. Everything needs to be player made. It's kinda like a sandbox pillar... Rule #2 or 3...
Lol EQ with no loot good luck with that.
I don't need to see everything that a mob would drop obviously. The way EQ1 did it was perfect.
EQ1 half way did this right, humanoid NPCs would show their weapons at times, but some they didn't show and would drop them on death.
Players learned over time to recognize this - later expansions turned away from this system for the most part.
It is great to see some items on mobs for sure. Especially on special named mobs. I remember so many times farming an area to finally see the mob with a glow to it or with the item actually equipped that I had waited a long time for. Then it was like "quick!! Kill it!!!"
I have a feeling EQN might have item decay/damage/break.
If it does then we may need all items be they grand or not. In a game with item repair you may be able to break down items into base components to then use to repair your and other people's gears. I am hoping this is the case with EQ Next. That way there will always be a robust economy.
Originally posted by Iadien Originally posted by Entinerint YAY somebody gets it.
People have been getting their hopes up on new things for many years, that doesn't mean it isn't okay to get excited about something new. It is possible to be excited without getting too high on something.
Relax guy, I'm excited too, just bracing for shattered hopes and dreams is all.
SWG, Darkfall, UO are all sandbox games with player-driven economies that prove you wrong.
Originally posted by coretex666 Originally posted by jdnyc I would prefer if it was more of a salvageable situation. But yes wholeheartedly agree on premise. Wolves should not have swords on them. Unless that wolf is a wolfman. And that wolfman just got a manicure and therefore needs to use a sword.
Beasts also have visible drops on them...claws, fur, etc
Mats that can be used for crafting.
Yep I would love to see this feature fleshed out.
Kill an epic direwolf, then skin it to make a high quality magical leather armour.
Kill a dragon and use its fang to craft a dagger or an amulet.
Stuff like that. Integrates crafting into the system as well, while keeping it pseudo realistic.
Having a wolf drop a greatsword is stupid.
Nah not true. What you cant have is indestructible items that last forever though. Crafting needs to be intergrated into the loot mechanics. Use drops to make items and upgrade them, rather than pre-made best in slot items just dropping and lasting forever.
Originally posted by evilastro Originally posted by bcbully Weapons and gear can't drop from mobs if you want a player driven economy. Everything needs to be player made. It's kinda like a sandbox pillar... Rule #2 or 3...
I think this is exactly what I'm saying Recipes, and some materials should drop, even skills but not the sword of glowing greatness, a epic blacksmith or even better sword smith should make it.
Originally posted by azzamasin Originally posted by bcbully Weapons and gear can't drop if you want a player driven economy. Everything needs to be player made. It's kinda like a sandbox pillar...
Man sometimes you say things that make me say "that's cool" well once or twice, but others I'm like wtf?!?! lol nice post.
Originally posted by bcbully Originally posted by evilastro Originally posted by bcbully Weapons and gear can't drop from mobs if you want a player driven economy. Everything needs to be player made. It's kinda like a sandbox pillar... Rule #2 or 3...
Haha yeah, I thought you meant that everything was actually crafted by a player, as in from base materials. I don't mind if an epic sword drops from someone who would have had possession of that epic sword. But you should loot it as a worn version of it that needs to be repaired (I mean, you did just have an epic battle to aquire that loot, it shouldnt be in pristine condition).
If the game wants to have a player crafted focused economy and it wants to enforce a sense of Community then it needs to have (imo).
1. Non-instanced player housing/shops, where crafters can make their goods and sale them to people. This greatly heps foster a sense of community when the players actually INTERACT with crafters.
2. A limited or no Auction House. Nothing zaps the sense of "community" out of an mmo and crafting like a global auction house. I know people expect them in most mmo's, but it takes soooooo much away. You never have to interact with a crafter, it destroys any sense of a "local" economy, etc. SWG did this fine, the AH in it was limited by value, so items that were cheap (IE newbie gear) and resources were sold on the AH, but expensive items and Gear? You had to buy those directly from crafters at their shops.
3. You can not make loot more valuable/better. This is one of the main things that will QUICKLY kill any sense of player crafting. If looted items are just as good/better then crafted ones, what's even the bloody point of having crafters?
You can still have loot, but let that loot be MATERIALS which you can then take to a crafter and they can fashion you an item or such.
This can also still allow for "rare/unique" things, like imagine you kill a dragon and one of it's loot drops is a claw or a tooth or some of it's scales. You can then take these items to a crafter to get a rare "dragon" weapon/armour piece.
This keeps crafters important, but it still allows for loot and also can still allow for a sense of rare/unique drops.
Also I would like to throw in my support for a "crafter" only class (if the game uses levels that is, in a skill-based game the crafting skills would mean they wouldn't be as good as other players in terms of combat skills).
These days where people Can fully develop their characters combat class and also do a "crafting on the side" class it kind of takes out the importance of crafters and leads to a lot of people just crafting crap they themselves need. It also takes away fromt hose people that want to be a crafter, because they aren't as important since everyone and their mom has some form of crafting.
Camelot Unchained is going this route. The way it works is that normal classes can craft, but only the lower level crafting.
If you want to craft the good stuff, the end game/high level things, you need the crafting class to do that.
I am hearing some alarming things now from this thread.
It started with a simple idea. Do you want to see an item equipped on a mob actually drop when it's killed.
I am a fan of the UO way of doing armors and weapons. You have X amount of total points to spend on your char and can choose to spend them however you want. You want to craft spells/spell modifiers.......if you want to just be able to make medium power spells then train up to that spot and lock your points. This will give people the flexibility of dabbling in something, but still being good at several other things and a master of just a few things. If you wanted to dedicate to being a highly in demand spell maker/modifier, you would need to train all points in maybe two areas related to this which would mean you would clearly not be a master of anything else, but you could be good at other things. So as a master spell maker you would need a book and patterns, magical inks, special quill. As a modifier of spells you would maybe need rune words or something interesting. Many of these you could craft or get from mobs or have to pay other players for. But you would be able to make alot off other players when you sell these higher end spells and modified spells. I remember in the later expansions of EQ they came out with 3 levels of spells. A normal, better, and best with the difference being about 10 to 15% each quality level.
Basically there is no issue with a player going deep into a dungeon and killing a liche and getting a wand of life tap. This wand would have a set of charges which other players would have to recharge with crafting skill. Same goes for armor and melee weapons. You find an iron dagger of spider. This dagger when it hits a target causes both physical damage and procs a poison dot. However, every time you use it the dagger gets quality points removed and dot charges removed. This process continues until the dagger reaches 0 points and breaks or runs out of charges and one type of crafter is needed to repair while another is needed to recharge. If you invest halfway into one of these abilities you may be able to repair some items but not to 100% quality anymore. It may cut the total number of hits till it breaks down to 80% or less of the previous quality. Also depending on the complexity and level of the original item you might fail or even break the item if your crafting skill is not high enuff.
I played a monk all through eq, stopped at 70 after defeating plane of time, but rolled my iksar monk when they became available in kunark.
I remember when I was pulling sleepers tomb, I would allow some of the bosses to hit me so try and determine what weapon they had when we were going for specific weapons. Is it piercing damage, slash, crush? I liked that and hope that these games start moving back in that direction.
I remember skeletons in the newb areas hitting much harder when they had two-handed staves equipped. Always hoped it was a cracked staff but then the Animations were different and they hurt!
I'll see you "mobs show what they use and drop what they show" and raise you "mobs not dropping things they couldn't carry... Like rats dropping copper pieces. ". I really like the way Skyrim had appropriate loot for the most part. You don't find the staff of the arch-Mage in the kitchen pantry, you find a sack... With potatoes!
_____________________________"Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit"
Originally posted by waynejr2 Originally posted by Electro057 Originally posted by Shadowguy64 Originally posted by Electro057 So explain to me again how the dragon was wearing that awesome Thong of Intellect, and how it now fits Veronica the Halfling Coercer?
The Thong was stuck in the dragon's teeth.
Then it better be shredded up and covered in spittle! And if it's in the belly it should be covered in gastric acids and partly digested, and crunched some if not swallowed whole. No more of this perfect pristine loot dropping off dead things!
So betty goes into the dragon cave wearing her magic thong and dies. Her body and thong are in the cave. Now billy comes along, kills the dragon and finds the thong. Billy needs to have it spelled out to him that this is how the item came to be "dropped" by the dragon. It's sad that Billy can't imagine this. It's sad that Billy would only have it be that he has to kill the dragon and search all the dead bodies in the room.
Having loot on the corpse of a fallen adventurer near a boss would actually be a very cool way of presenting it.
Originally posted by Entinerint Originally posted by Iadien Originally posted by Entinerint YAY somebody gets it.
You took my comment as hostile? It wasn't meant to come off that way...