I'll give you a really in-depth comparison later tonight when I'm off work, but for the quickie version:
Combat: About 100x more spammy, especially 1-15 (worst part of the game by far). Solo-friendly, but totally uninteresting if you solo the whole time. Group content is more exciting, but still not nearly as challenging as FFXI by any standard.
Crafting: More interesting and exciting than FFXI by a longshot. It's much easier to skill up and make meaningful, useful items. The downside being that it's incredibly dumbed-down, there's no real profit potential in it (since materia is no longer destroyed from failed attempts) and it lacks the complexity of 11 (the lunar calendar, time of day, directions, elemental day, etc etc.. all removed for this game)
Scale of the world: It's a healthy size. You can go from one corner of the world to the other in 30 minutes. It doesn't feel overwhelming or underwhelming. Very comfortable and easy to navigate.
Overall feel: The game feels a lot like vanilla WoW to me. You CAN group... or you can not. You CAN quest... but you don't have to, you CAN craft, but you don't need to. It's very casual and simple, and from a 1-30 standpoint, there's hardly any complexity or challenge to the game. My fear is that the game has no long-term appeal (as it stands) and seems entirely too easy for a game that wants to retain customers for years. However, the constant addition of content is a plus, the developer is very open and transparent, and SE seems to have learned from their mistakes. I've pre-ordered, but moreso because I'm going to play it casually. I absolutely think this game is NOT for hardcore MMO players, as neither the challenge nor longevity exists in-game just yet.
Also, I haven't played FFXI in some years (maybe 3 years now...?) but when I did, I had played it for 5 years. I even have the MMORPG.com review for it.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Could you instantly teleport anywhere in the world that you had visited for a fee in FFXI?
Yes you can. Over the last few years they have made a whole slew of changes to OP warps, city warps and even beastmen zone warps. Chocobos and airships are a thing of the past in todays FFXI
Now to the OP. FFXI and FFXIV play as two totally different games. Both good in their own respects. FFXIV is what gamers expect from the modern MMOs and it does it very well. Nothing too flashy and nothing over the top but the systems, so far, are pretty flawless.
On the other hand FFXI feels much more epic and historic. I think it has a lot to do with the 11+ years of development that has gone into the game. I think ARR will be right there too given the same amount of development.
In closing I think ARR, as far as SE titles go, is right on point and even a little past where FFXI was at US launch and as long as Yoshi-P is at the helm you can count on an open development team willing to listen to the community which is a far cry from FFXI.
I put 1300+ game days into XI. I can also look at things without nostalgia goggles on.
You can't compare the 2 games at all. XI is oldschool with oldschool mechanics based around group play, community, and huge time sinks. XIV is mostly solo with grouping added on for dungeons.
Combat:
This is the aspect that XIV is miles ahead of XI in every way. XI had the worst actual combat system ever but for it's time, it was the norm, so i understand it looking back. Standing in one spot or standing on the mobs feet is all you ever did while auto attacking to build TP. It was slow, dull, and really uninteresting. Sure there were times where you'd hop on blm or rdm and chain nuke + sleep mobs while kiting, but those were few and far between. Someone will inevitably throw in the example that this allowed for more talking between pulls, which was true as well.
XIV updates the combat to the standard hotbar, tab target that everyone's become comfortable with. Unfortunately, i don't think many XI fans will like this change. There's less emphasis on maxing out haste to weaponskill more often and more on rotations and TP management. What this does allow is for more complex boss encounters compared to XI, which isn't saying a lot.
The emphasis in combat as it's evolved has been more on a visual feel. You're concentrating more on the battle and movement and less on staring at the combat log and waiting for something to happen. This is a good thing in my opinion.
Classes:
I feel XI had the best class system of any MMO ever. Not only the quantity of classes but all the options you had with subjobs and the spell possibilities that it allowed. This is the main aspect i wish XIV copied class by class. I'm not a fan of being locked into 1 weapon per class/job like i am in XIV.
Game world:
I need to set up a seminar to educate XI players going into XIV that it's beneficial to help other solo players kill their mobs. There's no mob tagging, except for Leve's, so it's ok to help other players out. I've lost track of how many times I've assisted another person with their mob, only to have them run off and grab another while i just grabbed one for us. I don't think many players realize that pve cooperation is possible.
You probably won't understand this but it's like comparing EQ to EQ2. Two completely different games much like XI and XIV.
You have to also understand that you'll never get that XI feeling again. It was a different time with completely different expectations. XIV has a higher ceiling for endgame content and housing while XI had all the community aspects driven by it's harsh game mechanics. If only the 2 could have a baby.
Keep in mind to take everything you hear now with a grain of salt. There are aspects of the game not yet implemented, PvP and housing, and classes/jobs . For the life of me I can't understand why not testing on the PvP aspect of the game hasn't started, the warzone, ballistas, ect.
As these things become available, critiques are subject to change, this is beta after all, and not live release.
Its been a while since i played FFXI. I got to level 50 redmage and really enjoyed the game but its been a decade since i last played it. With that said here is what i can remember and compare to FFXIV AAR.
- Combat
When you start combat your character will autoattack every few seconds. You can cast skills that do a lot more damage with TP or MP. when you use a skill you have to wait a second or two before you can use another so you can't just spam the enemy with abilities.
You can combo some skills together but usually only 2 or 3 at most. You cannot chain or combo off other players skills as far as i can tell. Which is something i miss from FFXI.
- Scale of the World (Does it feel like you have a long way to go?)
The outside zones feel pretty big. Maybe the same as FFXI? Leveling feels really fast in early game up to level 15. At level 15 you need to beat a difficult boss cause I could not do it. So difficulty beyond level 15 increases a good amount. Given the number of classes and jobs you can get I think it scales well in terms growth. I think While FFXI had more class combinations you will feel a drive to level and try many different skill combinations in FFXIV. So it matches up well.
Its hard to say how much content there is in beta. But I believe it will scale really well. I am just too low level to really say how much. leveling in FFXI was definently slower than FFXIV AAR so how that affects the scale? not sure.
- Crafting
I was never a big crafter in FFXI so i can't really compare. Just know that for each crafting job you can equip items and gear to boost it. which i think is cool. My only concern is the economy. What i remember in FFXI was that i really liked how lets say a level 7 sword was only sold in the city gridarina. but in the city of un'dal they only sold level 5 swords. So i liked that people would buy all the level 7 swords in one city and sell them in the other and make a profit.
I really hope that with crafting you can make some unique items that are only a certain level. That way it creates a demand for it. I also hope they consider making different trade markets so that you can buy low in city and sell high in another. They may not be able to do that but i think it liven things up a little bit.
- Overall feel
Overall i think its a shaping up to be a solid game. The job and class system has enough depth and familiarity as FFXI to keep me interested. It looks like they have setup a system where the class system will allow a lot of skill swapping and tweaking for solo play. While at the same time they added jobs that really define some core roles in group play.
So it looks like you will have jobs for your defined group play mechanics which is what everyone remembers FFXI for. While you have this class system with lots of custimization for solo play.
You can check out how the job and class system works at this link. It gave me a much better idea of what kinda game they are going for once you understand it.
You probably won't understand this but it's like comparing EQ to EQ2. Two completely different games much like XI and XIV.
It isn't that they cannot be compared, but that their design concepts are completely opposite. FFXIV is focused on rewarding individual players, and this is why all the systems have been made easy enough for not only solo play, but also so that all types of players will understand them easy. IMHO, this is a serious design flaw, and SE will find out the hard way that it is a mistake. FF fans enjoy their games from the complexity and throwing that all aside to make more appeal to the masses is a terrible move.
Just ask Blizzard how well players react when you throw a beloved IP under the bus.
You probably won't understand this but it's like comparing EQ to EQ2. Two completely different games much like XI and XIV.
It isn't that they cannot be compared, but that their design concepts are completely opposite. FFXIV is focused on rewarding individual players, and this is why all the systems have been made easy enough for not only solo play, but also so that all types of players will understand them easy. IMHO, this is a serious design flaw, and SE will find out the hard way that it is a mistake. FF fans enjoy their games from the complexity and throwing that all aside to make more appeal to the masses is a terrible move.
Just ask Blizzard how well players react when you throw a beloved IP under the bus.
Yea a lot of final fantasy fans liked the game but just as many fans didnt like its design either. Hell i had several friends in the game that quit to play WoW because of how solo friendly it was.
Honestly, I am a previous FFXI player and have played FFXIV since beta 1.0--stuck around because the community was so incredibly solid. Anyways, the game's are completely incomparable and yet totally relatable. I got to play on my previous character in the last beta and I can honestly say that ARR is the first time I've ever felt that same feeling that FFXI gave me--a sense that I am actually in a world that has character and life. But as stated previously FFXI is FFXI and FFXIV is FFFXIV. They're different games.
But honestly I could write a comparison here or you could wait until the open beta to find out. The best way to tell if an MMO is for you is by giving it a shot yourself and playing it with an open mind. I think everything anyone says here is going to be either under a veil of fanboydom or through troll glasses. Take everything anyone says here with a grain of salt.
The crafting system may be one of the best I have seen. It is very in depth as far as I could tell. I wish I could say the same about the combat.
The easiest way to describe the combat is in FFXI you would build TP to unleash weapon skills and in FFXIV it is pretty much opposite. You start with a 1000% at the beginning of every fight and conserve it from there. There are no weapon skill ups that we all came to love, that means no more "Dagger skill raises 0.1". Combat just feels like it doesn't have depth, personally I expected a little more from SE in this area.
No waiting for airships. As much as it upset me when I would watch an airship pull off as I was trying to board in FFXI, deep down I always loved that part of the game. More opportunities to chat with people or just say hi., or even do some fishing. In FFXIV I'm not even sure there is gametime, just cycles. No moon phases with constellations that were aligned with everything in the world either.
FFXIV: ARR is a good game that is alot of fun to play, I love almost everything else about it and it really is the most fun I've had since FFXI, but the hidden stats, mysteries, and depth that FFXI had just doesn't seem to be here just yet. Here's to hoping some of these little things make their way to FFXIV: ARR.
First of all, I'd like to point out that all features of FFXIV have not been implemented in phase 3, such as Duty Finder and voice overs. Also, many people have only experienced, at the most, up to LV35. Therefore, have no right to describe endgame. FFXI is also an 11 year old game, with 11 year's worth of content. FFXIV has a considerable amount of content, but not as much, and for good reason.
I played FFXI for 6 years and stopped playing FFXIV 1.0 after 1 month. I am now beta testing FFXIV 2.0.
FFXI vs. FFXIV 2.0
Overall, everything is more user friendly and less time-consuming. In other words, it's been dumbed way down. The game holds your hand every step of the way. It contains all the modern conveniences that most MMO players expect.
Combat
- combat in FFXIV is spammy, but faster and more skill-based.
Crafting
- crafting in FFXIV relies less on little variables like weather and day, but more on skill. It's more interactive.
Auction House
- there is no AH in FFXIV, but instead you can use a retainer to sell your stuff and you can find the stuff listed on a market board.
Story
- the story is just as strong in FFXIV as it was in FFXI. This is one aspect that will never change from one FF to another.
Quests
- In FFXI you had no idea where to go for quests, the rewards weren't useful, they didn't supplement leveling, and there weren't as many. In FFXIV, there are quests galore, with rewards that include potions, weapons, armor, experience, etc. Typical modern day quest system. NPCs have markers, map will show you where to go and tell you what to do. There's a log, etc etc.
Housing
- Housing in FFXIV is a lot like it was in FFXI - small room with furniture. However, they are adding housing system, where you can buy house, add furniture, and change aspects of it. Think Aion housing system.
Character Customization
- The character creator is way more detailed than FFXI's.
Job System
- FFXI had one of the best job system's ever, so it's hard to beat, but FFXIV's does allow for a lot of customization. You can utilize skills from other jobs and you can allocate bonus stats (kind of like merits). Being able to level all classes/jobs on 1 character is still a huge pull over other MMOs.
First of all, I'd like to point out that all features of FFXIV have not been implemented in phase 3, such as Duty Finder and voice overs. Also, many people have only experienced, at the most, up to LV35. Therefore, have no right to describe endgame. FFXI is also an 11 year old game, with 11 year's worth of content. FFXIV has a considerable amount of content, but not as much, and for good reason.
I played FFXI for 6 years and stopped playing FFXIV 1.0 after 1 month. I am now beta testing FFXIV 2.0.
FFXI vs. FFXIV 2.0
Overall, everything is more user friendly and less time-consuming. In other words, it's been dumbed way down. The game holds your hand every step of the way. It contains all the modern conveniences that most MMO players expect.
Combat
- combat in FFXIV is spammy, but faster and more skill-based.
You don't have many skills the first 20 - 30 levels so it will feel a bit spammy, 30 -50 you are going to have to utilise other class skills for classes, jobs can only use specific skills from the 2 classes that create jobs. Jobs are more powerful but are suited to group play, classes are more suited to solo play style giving more utilization of other skills.
Crafting
- crafting in FFXIV relies less on little variables like weather and day, but more on skill. It's more interactive.
More interactive? There is plenty of skills to use in crafting, but its less clicky than it was in 1.x which is a good point.
Auction House
- there is no AH in FFXIV, but instead you can use a retainer to sell your stuff and you can find the stuff listed on a market board.
Story
- the story is just as strong in FFXIV as it was in FFXI. This is one aspect that will never change from one FF to another.
Quests
- In FFXI you had no idea where to go for quests, the rewards weren't useful, they didn't supplement leveling, and there weren't as many. In FFXIV, there are quests galore, with rewards that include potions, weapons, armor, experience, etc. Typical modern day quest system. NPCs have markers, map will show you where to go and tell you what to do. There's a log, etc etc.
Housing
- Housing in FFXIV is a lot like it was in FFXI - small room with furniture. However, they are adding housing system, where you can buy house, add furniture, and change aspects of it. Think Aion housing system.
Housing is nothing like FFXI, the houses are huge in comparison, you can buy plots of land, expand, gardening and chocobo stable can be added, some furniture items will give bonuses, ie gil drop increase. We was also informed there is an ability to sell your house to other players.
Character Customization
- The character creator is way more detailed than FFXI's.
Job System
- FFXI had one of the best job system's ever, so it's hard to beat, but FFXIV's does allow for a lot of customization. You can utilize skills from other jobs and you can allocate bonus stats (kind of like merits). Being able to level all classes/jobs on 1 character is still a huge pull over other MMOs.
First of all, I'd like to point out that all features of FFXIV have not been implemented in phase 3, such as Duty Finder and voice overs. Also, many people have only experienced, at the most, up to LV35. Therefore, have no right to describe endgame. FFXI is also an 11 year old game, with 11 year's worth of content. FFXIV has a considerable amount of content, but not as much, and for good reason.
I played FFXI for 6 years and stopped playing FFXIV 1.0 after 1 month. I am now beta testing FFXIV 2.0.
FFXI vs. FFXIV 2.0
Overall, everything is more user friendly and less time-consuming. In other words, it's been dumbed way down. The game holds your hand every step of the way. It contains all the modern conveniences that most MMO players expect.
Combat
- combat in FFXIV is spammy, but faster and more skill-based.
You don't have many skills the first 20 - 30 levels so it will feel a bit spammy, 30 -50 you are going to have to utilise other class skills for classes, jobs can only use specific skills from the 2 classes that create jobs. Jobs are more powerful but are suited to group play, classes are more suited to solo play style giving more utilization of other skills.
Crafting
- crafting in FFXIV relies less on little variables like weather and day, but more on skill. It's more interactive.
More interactive? There is plenty of skills to use in crafting, but its less clicky than it was in 1.x which is a good point.
Auction House
- there is no AH in FFXIV, but instead you can use a retainer to sell your stuff and you can find the stuff listed on a market board.
Story
- the story is just as strong in FFXIV as it was in FFXI. This is one aspect that will never change from one FF to another.
Quests
- In FFXI you had no idea where to go for quests, the rewards weren't useful, they didn't supplement leveling, and there weren't as many. In FFXIV, there are quests galore, with rewards that include potions, weapons, armor, experience, etc. Typical modern day quest system. NPCs have markers, map will show you where to go and tell you what to do. There's a log, etc etc.
Housing
- Housing in FFXIV is a lot like it was in FFXI - small room with furniture. However, they are adding housing system, where you can buy house, add furniture, and change aspects of it. Think Aion housing system.
Housing is nothing like FFXI, the houses are huge in comparison, you can buy plots of land, expand, gardening and chocobo stable can be added, some furniture items will give bonuses, ie gil drop increase. We was also informed there is an ability to sell your house to other players.
Character Customization
- The character creator is way more detailed than FFXI's.
Job System
- FFXI had one of the best job system's ever, so it's hard to beat, but FFXIV's does allow for a lot of customization. You can utilize skills from other jobs and you can allocate bonus stats (kind of like merits). Being able to level all classes/jobs on 1 character is still a huge pull over other MMOs.
I think you misunderstood a little. I was mostly pointing out FFXIV's features and comparing them to FFXI's.
As far as crafting is concerned, in FFXI crafting involved getting the items, worrying about the weather and day, and pressing a button. On the other hand, in FFXIV crafting is even more interactive because you have to use skills and those skills can determine the outcome. You also have to press those skills more than once. Armor bonuses also play a big part with their stats that help with crafting. FFXIV's crafting system is more interactive because there's more to do. It's like a mini-game.
Housing in FFXI is better at the moment, but when real housing is added with the features you mentioned, then yes FFXIV's housing system will be far superior.
First of all, I'd like to point out that all features of FFXIV have not been implemented in phase 3, such as Duty Finder and voice overs. Also, many people have only experienced, at the most, up to LV35. Therefore, have no right to describe endgame. FFXI is also an 11 year old game, with 11 year's worth of content. FFXIV has a considerable amount of content, but not as much, and for good reason.
I played FFXI for 6 years and stopped playing FFXIV 1.0 after 1 month. I am now beta testing FFXIV 2.0.
FFXI vs. FFXIV 2.0
Overall, everything is more user friendly and less time-consuming. In other words, it's been dumbed way down. The game holds your hand every step of the way. It contains all the modern conveniences that most MMO players expect.
Combat
- combat in FFXIV is spammy, but faster and more skill-based.
You don't have many skills the first 20 - 30 levels so it will feel a bit spammy, 30 -50 you are going to have to utilise other class skills for classes, jobs can only use specific skills from the 2 classes that create jobs. Jobs are more powerful but are suited to group play, classes are more suited to solo play style giving more utilization of other skills.
Crafting
- crafting in FFXIV relies less on little variables like weather and day, but more on skill. It's more interactive.
More interactive? There is plenty of skills to use in crafting, but its less clicky than it was in 1.x which is a good point.
Auction House
- there is no AH in FFXIV, but instead you can use a retainer to sell your stuff and you can find the stuff listed on a market board.
Story
- the story is just as strong in FFXIV as it was in FFXI. This is one aspect that will never change from one FF to another.
Quests
- In FFXI you had no idea where to go for quests, the rewards weren't useful, they didn't supplement leveling, and there weren't as many. In FFXIV, there are quests galore, with rewards that include potions, weapons, armor, experience, etc. Typical modern day quest system. NPCs have markers, map will show you where to go and tell you what to do. There's a log, etc etc.
Housing
- Housing in FFXIV is a lot like it was in FFXI - small room with furniture. However, they are adding housing system, where you can buy house, add furniture, and change aspects of it. Think Aion housing system.
Housing is nothing like FFXI, the houses are huge in comparison, you can buy plots of land, expand, gardening and chocobo stable can be added, some furniture items will give bonuses, ie gil drop increase. We was also informed there is an ability to sell your house to other players.
Character Customization
- The character creator is way more detailed than FFXI's.
Job System
- FFXI had one of the best job system's ever, so it's hard to beat, but FFXIV's does allow for a lot of customization. You can utilize skills from other jobs and you can allocate bonus stats (kind of like merits). Being able to level all classes/jobs on 1 character is still a huge pull over other MMOs.
It's almost as if everything you responded to you didn't read.
You have to also understand that you'll never get that XI feeling again.
Very sad and very true. XI was awesome...
I think the far more important variable in this is that you're now 11 years older, and unless you hit your head with a hammer really hard, you're not going to experience an MMO, any MMO that is, for the first time again ...
I put 1300+ game days into XI. I can also look at things without nostalgia goggles on.
You can't compare the 2 games at all. XI is oldschool with oldschool mechanics based around group play, community, and huge time sinks. XIV is mostly solo with grouping added on for dungeons.
Combat:
This is the aspect that XIV is miles ahead of XI in every way. XI had the worst actual combat system ever but for it's time, it was the norm, so i understand it looking back. Standing in one spot or standing on the mobs feet is all you ever did while auto attacking to build TP. It was slow, dull, and really uninteresting. Sure there were times where you'd hop on blm or rdm and chain nuke + sleep mobs while kiting, but those were few and far between. Someone will inevitably throw in the example that this allowed for more talking between pulls, which was true as well.
XIV updates the combat to the standard hotbar, tab target that everyone's become comfortable with. Unfortunately, i don't think many XI fans will like this change. There's less emphasis on maxing out haste to weaponskill more often and more on rotations and TP management. What this does allow is for more complex boss encounters compared to XI, which isn't saying a lot.
The emphasis in combat as it's evolved has been more on a visual feel. You're concentrating more on the battle and movement and less on staring at the combat log and waiting for something to happen. This is a good thing in my opinion.
Classes:
I feel XI had the best class system of any MMO ever. Not only the quantity of classes but all the options you had with subjobs and the spell possibilities that it allowed. This is the main aspect i wish XIV copied class by class. I'm not a fan of being locked into 1 weapon per class/job like i am in XIV.
Game world:
I need to set up a seminar to educate XI players going into XIV that it's beneficial to help other solo players kill their mobs. There's no mob tagging, except for Leve's, so it's ok to help other players out. I've lost track of how many times I've assisted another person with their mob, only to have them run off and grab another while i just grabbed one for us. I don't think many players realize that pve cooperation is possible.
You probably won't understand this but it's like comparing EQ to EQ2. Two completely different games much like XI and XIV.
You have to also understand that you'll never get that XI feeling again. It was a different time with completely different expectations. XIV has a higher ceiling for endgame content and housing while XI had all the community aspects driven by it's harsh game mechanics. If only the 2 could have a baby.
Firstly, while I appreciate the information here. I would like to ask to please make sure you read my post. You assume that I wouldn't be able to see this game for what it is and that I need to compare this game to XI for nostalgia purposes.
That being said, you have given me information that I think others may not have touched upon. Regardless, I do believe I stated in my original post that I understand that the 2 games will be different, but I wanted to know how different.
Secondly, I have done my homework. I hate when people ask questions without looking for themselves and then ask for another person's opinion. So I had a look for myself. That being what it is, I saw this video... To Kill a Raven. Hopefully some of you look at this video and see what I see. When I showed this to my friends we instantly saw a comparison to the battles we had in Sky. Yes the gameplay still looks the same but it has a bit of a different feel to it. It also looks a lot more flashy and fast. That said, you see the skill timers and call out (Ready) when to perform a skill chain. The need to have a full party was in affect and one of the main sticking points we liked from XI. But we took that to mean that important missions you would have to party up and fight. Where as in the normal starting areas you could Solo. Also, they clearly took away macros and have clear defined buttons that are similar to todays games. I.E. for me SWTOR but for others it maybe WoW.
In the end, I know that there are going to be differences and truly appreciate the effort of everyone's opinion on here. It's the reason why I post here. Its been a while obviously but still... Lastly, I would like to say this... Alders as much as I appreciate you giving information I would ask that you do not assume people can or cant understand something. I get that their are some out there that will either be so 'dug in' to not see what you are talking about. But clearly to point out that 'You probably wont understand this...' is a tad bit elitist. I can understand being a cynic but the world has a lot more variety to it. Don't assume. Thanks for your information though. I liked what you provided.
I played FFXI from ps2 release all the way up to around 2007-8 when they released abyssea and completely ruined the game for a lot of us older players.
the combat in FF14 ARR its like a mash of a little of FF11 combat with a lot more of WoW grinded into one new style. ( not a good thing in my opinion).
the combat is extremely flashy/ fast paced and more spammy meaning you have a combat where your character spends most times spamming skills non stop instead of relying on auto attacks as much. This is the worst part of the game in my opinion as i prefer a slower more tactical and strategized combat instead of the new "standard" of herp derp spam all your keys at the enemy without needing to think and AoE spam anything in sight. Remember the fun with skillchain/ magic burst/etc now completely replaced with flashy limit breaks.
I am sad to also say this game will put a ton more effort into "solo mode play" as looking at things from beta/readings/etc it will be similar to 1.0 where you can just solo your way from 1-50 easily. I also prefer party based gameplay focus as I tend to play MMORPG to play with people and not a single player rpg as i can play that on consoles/etc. we have yet to see in full game release how they will split it but the looks of it its easy mode solo mode.
This is the second part of it I am not to fond of in this game. It is heavily quest based system where you play fetch/.......kill this and that.........collect reward from npc, rinse and repeat. Leve system its a masking of the same old junk every single mmorpg has out there.
bottom of the line is if you expecting a experience similar to FF11 pre abyssea then you will be greatly mistaken. However if you enjoyed abyssea easy mode then you will also like this game. That is the real honest opinion at the end of the day.
I was hoping for another type of mmorpg like FF11 or anything that captured the magic a lot of us loved for so many years but it looks like SE caved in and its just making game too casual and boring.
I only have limited experience with FFXI, but to me the combat in FFXIV feels much better from what I did experience, it still needs a bit of work, but to me its a much better system, still not as fast as most themeparks, but with a few tweaks and limitbreaks it will be really interesting.
The world feels big, there is instancing between zones, but the zones are huge, and very beautiful, the graphics engine is simply the best ive ever seen in an MMO.
The crafting is very good, I made a post on these forums not long ago about crafting and gathering and why I think it might be the best in a themepark to date.
Overall I believe Yoshida and Square has performed a miracle with ARR, and I hope this is a sign of things to come.
I played FFXI from ps2 release all the way up to around 2007-8 when they released abyssea and completely ruined the game for a lot of us older players.
the combat in FF14 ARR its like a mash of a little of FF11 combat with a lot more of WoW grinded into one new style. ( not a good thing in my opinion).
the combat is extremely flashy/ fast paced and more spammy meaning you have a combat where your character spends most times spamming skills non stop instead of relying on auto attacks as much. This is the worst part of the game in my opinion as i prefer a slower more tactical and strategized combat instead of the new "standard" of herp derp spam all your keys at the enemy without needing to think and AoE spam anything in sight. Remember the fun with skillchain/ magic burst/etc now completely replaced with flashy limit breaks.
I am sad to also say this game will put a ton more effort into "solo mode play" as looking at things from beta/readings/etc it will be similar to 1.0 where you can just solo your way from 1-50 easily. I also prefer party based gameplay focus as I tend to play MMORPG to play with people and not a single player rpg as i can play that on consoles/etc. we have yet to see in full game release how they will split it but the looks of it its easy mode solo mode.
This is the second part of it I am not to fond of in this game. It is heavily quest based system where you play fetch/.......kill this and that.........collect reward from npc, rinse and repeat. Leve system its a masking of the same old junk every single mmorpg has out there.
bottom of the line is if you expecting a experience similar to FF11 pre abyssea then you will be greatly mistaken. However if you enjoyed abyssea easy mode then you will also like this game. That is the real honest opinion at the end of the day.
I was hoping for another type of mmorpg like FF11 or anything that captured the magic a lot of us loved for so many years but it looks like SE caved in and its just making game too casual and boring.
if i just spam as a thm i have a tendency to die O_o
the combat is extremely flashy/ fast paced and more spammy meaning you have a combat where your character spends most times spamming skills non stop instead of relying on auto attacks as much. This is the worst part of the game in my opinion as i prefer a slower more tactical and strategized combat instead of the new "standard" of herp derp spam all your keys at the enemy without needing to think and AoE spam anything in sight. Remember the fun with skillchain/ magic burst/etc now completely replaced with flashy limit breaks.
It's funny. It tells more about XI than ARR that even with the fast pace ARR manages to be infinitely more tactical and strategic than XI ever wished to be.
XI has the right kind of playerbase though, always thinking that because it's slow, it's tactical and strategic. And because other games have fast combat, it is not tactical or strategic. These people would get absolutely wrecked in any of these games, because they demand both speed and fast thinking, It's okay though, because they won't ever play these games. They'll simply keep saying they're too simple for them.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
You probably won't understand this but it's like comparing EQ to EQ2. Two completely different games much like XI and XIV.
It isn't that they cannot be compared, but that their design concepts are completely opposite. FFXIV is focused on rewarding individual players, and this is why all the systems have been made easy enough for not only solo play, but also so that all types of players will understand them easy. IMHO, this is a serious design flaw, and SE will find out the hard way that it is a mistake. FF fans enjoy their games from the complexity and throwing that all aside to make more appeal to the masses is a terrible move.
Just ask Blizzard how well players react when you throw a beloved IP under the bus.
I think there are many less FF fans playing a FF MMO than there are FF fans total. FFXI was a very inaccessible game to someone who had never played an MMO before. Trust me I know, it was my first MMO. But I stuck with it because I was having fun with the people I was playing, and eventually the game opened itself up to me.
FF14 is designed in such a way that players new to the genre can jump right in, and maybe this'll be the game to break the mold for other FF fans who have never played an MMO.
As others have said, it's really hard to compare the two because they're founded on completely different concepts. I haven't played many MMOs, but from what I've seen from the little bit of story I've played, this game appeals to me as a FF game first and foremost. Honestly I think that's the crowd SE needs to go after, but the MMO player pool is so large nowadays that general MMO players will give it a try as well. Those that actually really like it may stick with it and pay a subscription.
Comments
I'll give you a really in-depth comparison later tonight when I'm off work, but for the quickie version:
Combat: About 100x more spammy, especially 1-15 (worst part of the game by far). Solo-friendly, but totally uninteresting if you solo the whole time. Group content is more exciting, but still not nearly as challenging as FFXI by any standard.
Crafting: More interesting and exciting than FFXI by a longshot. It's much easier to skill up and make meaningful, useful items. The downside being that it's incredibly dumbed-down, there's no real profit potential in it (since materia is no longer destroyed from failed attempts) and it lacks the complexity of 11 (the lunar calendar, time of day, directions, elemental day, etc etc.. all removed for this game)
Scale of the world: It's a healthy size. You can go from one corner of the world to the other in 30 minutes. It doesn't feel overwhelming or underwhelming. Very comfortable and easy to navigate.
Overall feel: The game feels a lot like vanilla WoW to me. You CAN group... or you can not. You CAN quest... but you don't have to, you CAN craft, but you don't need to. It's very casual and simple, and from a 1-30 standpoint, there's hardly any complexity or challenge to the game. My fear is that the game has no long-term appeal (as it stands) and seems entirely too easy for a game that wants to retain customers for years. However, the constant addition of content is a plus, the developer is very open and transparent, and SE seems to have learned from their mistakes. I've pre-ordered, but moreso because I'm going to play it casually. I absolutely think this game is NOT for hardcore MMO players, as neither the challenge nor longevity exists in-game just yet.
Also, I haven't played FFXI in some years (maybe 3 years now...?) but when I did, I had played it for 5 years. I even have the MMORPG.com review for it.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Yes you can. Over the last few years they have made a whole slew of changes to OP warps, city warps and even beastmen zone warps. Chocobos and airships are a thing of the past in todays FFXI
Now to the OP. FFXI and FFXIV play as two totally different games. Both good in their own respects. FFXIV is what gamers expect from the modern MMOs and it does it very well. Nothing too flashy and nothing over the top but the systems, so far, are pretty flawless.
On the other hand FFXI feels much more epic and historic. I think it has a lot to do with the 11+ years of development that has gone into the game. I think ARR will be right there too given the same amount of development.
In closing I think ARR, as far as SE titles go, is right on point and even a little past where FFXI was at US launch and as long as Yoshi-P is at the helm you can count on an open development team willing to listen to the community which is a far cry from FFXI.
I put 1300+ game days into XI. I can also look at things without nostalgia goggles on.
You can't compare the 2 games at all. XI is oldschool with oldschool mechanics based around group play, community, and huge time sinks. XIV is mostly solo with grouping added on for dungeons.
Combat:
This is the aspect that XIV is miles ahead of XI in every way. XI had the worst actual combat system ever but for it's time, it was the norm, so i understand it looking back. Standing in one spot or standing on the mobs feet is all you ever did while auto attacking to build TP. It was slow, dull, and really uninteresting. Sure there were times where you'd hop on blm or rdm and chain nuke + sleep mobs while kiting, but those were few and far between. Someone will inevitably throw in the example that this allowed for more talking between pulls, which was true as well.
XIV updates the combat to the standard hotbar, tab target that everyone's become comfortable with. Unfortunately, i don't think many XI fans will like this change. There's less emphasis on maxing out haste to weaponskill more often and more on rotations and TP management. What this does allow is for more complex boss encounters compared to XI, which isn't saying a lot.
The emphasis in combat as it's evolved has been more on a visual feel. You're concentrating more on the battle and movement and less on staring at the combat log and waiting for something to happen. This is a good thing in my opinion.
Classes:
I feel XI had the best class system of any MMO ever. Not only the quantity of classes but all the options you had with subjobs and the spell possibilities that it allowed. This is the main aspect i wish XIV copied class by class. I'm not a fan of being locked into 1 weapon per class/job like i am in XIV.
Game world:
I need to set up a seminar to educate XI players going into XIV that it's beneficial to help other solo players kill their mobs. There's no mob tagging, except for Leve's, so it's ok to help other players out. I've lost track of how many times I've assisted another person with their mob, only to have them run off and grab another while i just grabbed one for us. I don't think many players realize that pve cooperation is possible.
You probably won't understand this but it's like comparing EQ to EQ2. Two completely different games much like XI and XIV.
You have to also understand that you'll never get that XI feeling again. It was a different time with completely different expectations. XIV has a higher ceiling for endgame content and housing while XI had all the community aspects driven by it's harsh game mechanics. If only the 2 could have a baby.
Keep in mind to take everything you hear now with a grain of salt. There are aspects of the game not yet implemented, PvP and housing, and classes/jobs . For the life of me I can't understand why not testing on the PvP aspect of the game hasn't started, the warzone, ballistas, ect.
As these things become available, critiques are subject to change, this is beta after all, and not live release.
ya thats why its been around for 25 years.
Its been a while since i played FFXI. I got to level 50 redmage and really enjoyed the game but its been a decade since i last played it. With that said here is what i can remember and compare to FFXIV AAR.
- Combat
When you start combat your character will autoattack every few seconds. You can cast skills that do a lot more damage with TP or MP. when you use a skill you have to wait a second or two before you can use another so you can't just spam the enemy with abilities.
You can combo some skills together but usually only 2 or 3 at most. You cannot chain or combo off other players skills as far as i can tell. Which is something i miss from FFXI.
- Scale of the World (Does it feel like you have a long way to go?)
The outside zones feel pretty big. Maybe the same as FFXI? Leveling feels really fast in early game up to level 15. At level 15 you need to beat a difficult boss cause I could not do it. So difficulty beyond level 15 increases a good amount. Given the number of classes and jobs you can get I think it scales well in terms growth. I think While FFXI had more class combinations you will feel a drive to level and try many different skill combinations in FFXIV. So it matches up well.
Its hard to say how much content there is in beta. But I believe it will scale really well. I am just too low level to really say how much. leveling in FFXI was definently slower than FFXIV AAR so how that affects the scale? not sure.
- Crafting
I was never a big crafter in FFXI so i can't really compare. Just know that for each crafting job you can equip items and gear to boost it. which i think is cool. My only concern is the economy. What i remember in FFXI was that i really liked how lets say a level 7 sword was only sold in the city gridarina. but in the city of un'dal they only sold level 5 swords. So i liked that people would buy all the level 7 swords in one city and sell them in the other and make a profit.
I really hope that with crafting you can make some unique items that are only a certain level. That way it creates a demand for it. I also hope they consider making different trade markets so that you can buy low in city and sell high in another. They may not be able to do that but i think it liven things up a little bit.
- Overall feel
Overall i think its a shaping up to be a solid game. The job and class system has enough depth and familiarity as FFXI to keep me interested. It looks like they have setup a system where the class system will allow a lot of skill swapping and tweaking for solo play. While at the same time they added jobs that really define some core roles in group play.
So it looks like you will have jobs for your defined group play mechanics which is what everyone remembers FFXI for. While you have this class system with lots of custimization for solo play.
You can check out how the job and class system works at this link. It gave me a much better idea of what kinda game they are going for once you understand it.
http://www.eorzeapedia.com/wiki/Category:Jobs
Very sad and very true. XI was awesome...
It isn't that they cannot be compared, but that their design concepts are completely opposite. FFXIV is focused on rewarding individual players, and this is why all the systems have been made easy enough for not only solo play, but also so that all types of players will understand them easy. IMHO, this is a serious design flaw, and SE will find out the hard way that it is a mistake. FF fans enjoy their games from the complexity and throwing that all aside to make more appeal to the masses is a terrible move.
Just ask Blizzard how well players react when you throw a beloved IP under the bus.
Yea a lot of final fantasy fans liked the game but just as many fans didnt like its design either. Hell i had several friends in the game that quit to play WoW because of how solo friendly it was.
Honestly, I am a previous FFXI player and have played FFXIV since beta 1.0--stuck around because the community was so incredibly solid. Anyways, the game's are completely incomparable and yet totally relatable. I got to play on my previous character in the last beta and I can honestly say that ARR is the first time I've ever felt that same feeling that FFXI gave me--a sense that I am actually in a world that has character and life. But as stated previously FFXI is FFXI and FFXIV is FFFXIV. They're different games.
But honestly I could write a comparison here or you could wait until the open beta to find out. The best way to tell if an MMO is for you is by giving it a shot yourself and playing it with an open mind. I think everything anyone says here is going to be either under a veil of fanboydom or through troll glasses. Take everything anyone says here with a grain of salt.
The crafting system may be one of the best I have seen. It is very in depth as far as I could tell. I wish I could say the same about the combat.
The easiest way to describe the combat is in FFXI you would build TP to unleash weapon skills and in FFXIV it is pretty much opposite. You start with a 1000% at the beginning of every fight and conserve it from there. There are no weapon skill ups that we all came to love, that means no more "Dagger skill raises 0.1". Combat just feels like it doesn't have depth, personally I expected a little more from SE in this area.
No waiting for airships. As much as it upset me when I would watch an airship pull off as I was trying to board in FFXI, deep down I always loved that part of the game. More opportunities to chat with people or just say hi., or even do some fishing. In FFXIV I'm not even sure there is gametime, just cycles. No moon phases with constellations that were aligned with everything in the world either.
FFXIV: ARR is a good game that is alot of fun to play, I love almost everything else about it and it really is the most fun I've had since FFXI, but the hidden stats, mysteries, and depth that FFXI had just doesn't seem to be here just yet. Here's to hoping some of these little things make their way to FFXIV: ARR.
god.. i miss ffxi sky/sea expansions. which i believe was prime time of ffxi.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/388196/yoshida-explanations.html
yoshida talks about the retention of the games...
hope yoshida realizes that ffxi closed half of its servers with dumbed down post-sea expansions...
their attempt to draw new customers failed so hard.. why cant they be happy /w ffxi royalty player base?
;_; i want my nostalgia feeling back
First of all, I'd like to point out that all features of FFXIV have not been implemented in phase 3, such as Duty Finder and voice overs. Also, many people have only experienced, at the most, up to LV35. Therefore, have no right to describe endgame. FFXI is also an 11 year old game, with 11 year's worth of content. FFXIV has a considerable amount of content, but not as much, and for good reason.
I played FFXI for 6 years and stopped playing FFXIV 1.0 after 1 month. I am now beta testing FFXIV 2.0.
FFXI vs. FFXIV 2.0
Overall, everything is more user friendly and less time-consuming. In other words, it's been dumbed way down. The game holds your hand every step of the way. It contains all the modern conveniences that most MMO players expect.
Combat
- combat in FFXIV is spammy, but faster and more skill-based.
Crafting
- crafting in FFXIV relies less on little variables like weather and day, but more on skill. It's more interactive.
Auction House
- there is no AH in FFXIV, but instead you can use a retainer to sell your stuff and you can find the stuff listed on a market board.
Story
- the story is just as strong in FFXIV as it was in FFXI. This is one aspect that will never change from one FF to another.
Quests
- In FFXI you had no idea where to go for quests, the rewards weren't useful, they didn't supplement leveling, and there weren't as many. In FFXIV, there are quests galore, with rewards that include potions, weapons, armor, experience, etc. Typical modern day quest system. NPCs have markers, map will show you where to go and tell you what to do. There's a log, etc etc.
Housing
- Housing in FFXIV is a lot like it was in FFXI - small room with furniture. However, they are adding housing system, where you can buy house, add furniture, and change aspects of it. Think Aion housing system.
Character Customization
- The character creator is way more detailed than FFXI's.
Job System
- FFXI had one of the best job system's ever, so it's hard to beat, but FFXIV's does allow for a lot of customization. You can utilize skills from other jobs and you can allocate bonus stats (kind of like merits). Being able to level all classes/jobs on 1 character is still a huge pull over other MMOs.
I think you misunderstood a little. I was mostly pointing out FFXIV's features and comparing them to FFXI's.
As far as crafting is concerned, in FFXI crafting involved getting the items, worrying about the weather and day, and pressing a button. On the other hand, in FFXIV crafting is even more interactive because you have to use skills and those skills can determine the outcome. You also have to press those skills more than once. Armor bonuses also play a big part with their stats that help with crafting. FFXIV's crafting system is more interactive because there's more to do. It's like a mini-game.
Housing in FFXI is better at the moment, but when real housing is added with the features you mentioned, then yes FFXIV's housing system will be far superior.
It's almost as if everything you responded to you didn't read.
I think the far more important variable in this is that you're now 11 years older, and unless you hit your head with a hammer really hard, you're not going to experience an MMO, any MMO that is, for the first time again ...
Firstly, while I appreciate the information here. I would like to ask to please make sure you read my post. You assume that I wouldn't be able to see this game for what it is and that I need to compare this game to XI for nostalgia purposes.
That being said, you have given me information that I think others may not have touched upon. Regardless, I do believe I stated in my original post that I understand that the 2 games will be different, but I wanted to know how different.
Secondly, I have done my homework. I hate when people ask questions without looking for themselves and then ask for another person's opinion. So I had a look for myself. That being what it is, I saw this video... To Kill a Raven. Hopefully some of you look at this video and see what I see. When I showed this to my friends we instantly saw a comparison to the battles we had in Sky. Yes the gameplay still looks the same but it has a bit of a different feel to it. It also looks a lot more flashy and fast. That said, you see the skill timers and call out (Ready) when to perform a skill chain. The need to have a full party was in affect and one of the main sticking points we liked from XI. But we took that to mean that important missions you would have to party up and fight. Where as in the normal starting areas you could Solo. Also, they clearly took away macros and have clear defined buttons that are similar to todays games. I.E. for me SWTOR but for others it maybe WoW.
In the end, I know that there are going to be differences and truly appreciate the effort of everyone's opinion on here. It's the reason why I post here. Its been a while obviously but still... Lastly, I would like to say this... Alders as much as I appreciate you giving information I would ask that you do not assume people can or cant understand something. I get that their are some out there that will either be so 'dug in' to not see what you are talking about. But clearly to point out that 'You probably wont understand this...' is a tad bit elitist. I can understand being a cynic but the world has a lot more variety to it. Don't assume. Thanks for your information though. I liked what you provided.
I played FFXI from ps2 release all the way up to around 2007-8 when they released abyssea and completely ruined the game for a lot of us older players.
the combat in FF14 ARR its like a mash of a little of FF11 combat with a lot more of WoW grinded into one new style. ( not a good thing in my opinion).
the combat is extremely flashy/ fast paced and more spammy meaning you have a combat where your character spends most times spamming skills non stop instead of relying on auto attacks as much. This is the worst part of the game in my opinion as i prefer a slower more tactical and strategized combat instead of the new "standard" of herp derp spam all your keys at the enemy without needing to think and AoE spam anything in sight. Remember the fun with skillchain/ magic burst/etc now completely replaced with flashy limit breaks.
I am sad to also say this game will put a ton more effort into "solo mode play" as looking at things from beta/readings/etc it will be similar to 1.0 where you can just solo your way from 1-50 easily. I also prefer party based gameplay focus as I tend to play MMORPG to play with people and not a single player rpg as i can play that on consoles/etc. we have yet to see in full game release how they will split it but the looks of it its easy mode solo mode.
This is the second part of it I am not to fond of in this game. It is heavily quest based system where you play fetch/.......kill this and that.........collect reward from npc, rinse and repeat. Leve system its a masking of the same old junk every single mmorpg has out there.
bottom of the line is if you expecting a experience similar to FF11 pre abyssea then you will be greatly mistaken. However if you enjoyed abyssea easy mode then you will also like this game. That is the real honest opinion at the end of the day.
I was hoping for another type of mmorpg like FF11 or anything that captured the magic a lot of us loved for so many years but it looks like SE caved in and its just making game too casual and boring.
theres load screens not instances
if i just spam as a thm i have a tendency to die O_o
It's funny. It tells more about XI than ARR that even with the fast pace ARR manages to be infinitely more tactical and strategic than XI ever wished to be.
XI has the right kind of playerbase though, always thinking that because it's slow, it's tactical and strategic. And because other games have fast combat, it is not tactical or strategic. These people would get absolutely wrecked in any of these games, because they demand both speed and fast thinking, It's okay though, because they won't ever play these games. They'll simply keep saying they're too simple for them.
I think there are many less FF fans playing a FF MMO than there are FF fans total. FFXI was a very inaccessible game to someone who had never played an MMO before. Trust me I know, it was my first MMO. But I stuck with it because I was having fun with the people I was playing, and eventually the game opened itself up to me.
FF14 is designed in such a way that players new to the genre can jump right in, and maybe this'll be the game to break the mold for other FF fans who have never played an MMO.
As others have said, it's really hard to compare the two because they're founded on completely different concepts. I haven't played many MMOs, but from what I've seen from the little bit of story I've played, this game appeals to me as a FF game first and foremost. Honestly I think that's the crowd SE needs to go after, but the MMO player pool is so large nowadays that general MMO players will give it a try as well. Those that actually really like it may stick with it and pay a subscription.
If you liked FFXI - this is not the game for you.
You will literally be torn to shreds for liking XI. Most of the XIV ARR community hates FFXI. It plays nothing alike, the world feels static and dead.
I'm so disappointed. FFXIV 1.23 was a better game than what we have now. Graphics were better, too.
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