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How many of you will get this on PS4 instead of PC or both?

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  • HabitualFrogStompHabitualFrogStomp SydneyPosts: 281Member
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Been MMOing for 14+ years and spent most of it playing PvP MMOs like DAoC or on servers where I could get my PvP fill. I have been members of many PvP focused guilds and the only MMO I was part of a guild that was PvE focused was for EQ1. In my time MMOing I have gamed with so many hardcore PvPers in MMOs I could not hope to list them. Try chucking up your ideas HERE and see how many MMO/PC/PvPers dash your ideas to tiny bits. Would be fun to see! I dare you to start a topic/thread on this.

    I couldnt care less how many nerds want to "clash with me" on my opinions. There are a select few who specialize in PVP in MMO's, but were not talking about the exception here, were talking about the whole thing. MMO players in general are the PVE crowd. FPS PVE crowd is the exception.

    Its basically like comparing the French Foreign legion to the US military. The legion may be very skilled at what they do, and a few Frenchman actually serve. Does that suddenly make the Frenchies expert at the martial arts? I dont think so son.

    Yes because Im going to go out of my way to post somewhere else on the website because you asked me to when I can argue my point equally well here? What are they going to do, swear at me and call me names? Must be that mature PC crowd you were talking about. Im real scurred.

    (((eyeroll))) 

    What, are you upset that your 14+ years of experience is putting me to sleep? Sorry that I dont just take anyone seriously because they say I have to. I kinda stopped taking you seriously the moment you brought SWG and TESO into the topic. Really now?

    You could not upset me as I know what type of gamer you are. I play twitch games as well, Halo by far my fav and my online time with Halo kicking other players butt was fun but some twitch gamers start to think the best or the best PvP is twitched based. Sure its fun and all but there is more strategy in MMOs like DAoC that flies right over the heads of most twitch gamers. Where my guild and I have taken on a hord of 100+ players and won with only 20-40 players. Not zerg style but weeks of plans and practice. Twitch is fun and is PvP but its only one kind and what I get from PC MMOing PvP is by far the depth and breadth I look for in my PvP that no console could supply. 

    Clearly you're upset because you've already resorted to making assumptions about me when you have no idea. You have to fit me into some prefabricated definition you've made up to make yourself feel better. Booohoo.

    The type of gamer I am is an experienced and realistic one. I know the will to win is far more important than anything you could possibly bring to the table. If me and my group is more tenacious and unrelenting than yours, you will lose. Bring all your strategy and planning that you want, at the end of the day if your hands quake and ours dont, you'll die, a lot. A calm and steady hand wins the day, and that is earned through experience.

    And clearly, FPS players are more experienced with that. It has nothing to do with twitch gaming though, I dont know where you got the idea it was based on that alone. Strats are easy. Within 3 months of any MMO is released, all the optimal strats are posted on dozens of websites. If thats your big claim to fame, you're gonna find the room your sitting in to be quite a bit crowded shortly.

    Im afraid consoles are going to be supplying strategic online gameplay, within a few short months. And once those flood gates open up, there aint gonna be no closing them. If guys like you had trouble dealing with the l33t speaking face pwners or whatever, well, its about to get a whole lot more interesting.

    Thanks I needed that lol. Thanks again for making me smile and all the best to you. Was a fun chat but I am afraid its grown a bit thin on your last post so I big you adieu. 

    Thats fine. At the end of the day you sound a hell of a lot more scared of console gamers than I do about PC gamers (which would be silly since I already play with them).

    Up to this point, most MMO's have been secluded to a largely isolated sector of the gaming world. WoW helped change a lot of that, but who wants to play WoW crap? Now if you bring in all those PS and Xbox "console kiddies", you go from being a big fish in a small pond to probably figuring out you werent as special as you thought you were.

    Im not at all bothered by it, because Im confident enough in my abilities that I will do fine regardless of who's playing. You and others like you, Im not so sure about. I just hope theres a few open world PVP games so I can see all the guys on my console friends list having a good time doing stuff you MMO boys cant handle. Thats the future if you ask me. Maybe they couldnt market it to you cream puffs but Im excited to see if possibly we can have mainstream open world PVP on console. It would make perfect sense, given the titles they're already used to.

    Im saying what you rejected, they will quite possibly embrace. And thats a great thing for me.

    Thing is those kids don't really like video games, most of them are just playing CoD and BF3 because it's cool and alright with their friends. Most of them are just playing with their friends cause it's the in thing to do...They don't care about the quality of the game, or the content really. And in the end unless Everquest Next is somehow related to Halo, CoD, or Battlefield those FPS players aren't going to give it a single second glance...Most people who aren't already somehow part of the MMO genre want nothing to do with it and see us as basement dwelling nerds.

     

    I wont even address the majority of the ignorance in your post. But this has been proven wrong already. Oblivion and Skyrim are basically single player MMO's that most of these "kids" would love to play with their friends. Which is exactly why Bethesda and Zenimax are cashing in on that.

    Your post is full of wishful thinking, but the genre that you've wasted away to practically nothing with the constant bitching and moaning since practically the very start is not going to be yours any longer. This genre has suffered long enough being marketed to people who werent going to pleased regardless of what product is being released. And its about damn time it was taken away from you to be honest. Game companies will have much more freedom in their design when marketing the game on consoles. As soon as this stuff gets released on consoles. they will sell the shit out of them. You have no vision if you think "basement dweller" even applies as a stigma with these games anymore, especially after WoW made it mainstream. But on merit of them releasing on console alone by your logic makes it socially acceptable.

    I cant even fathom where some people come up with this crap on here anymore. Its hillarious in a sad way.

  • Electro057Electro057 Guelph, ONPosts: 658Member
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Been MMOing for 14+ years and spent most of it playing PvP MMOs like DAoC or on servers where I could get my PvP fill. I have been members of many PvP focused guilds and the only MMO I was part of a guild that was PvE focused was for EQ1. In my time MMOing I have gamed with so many hardcore PvPers in MMOs I could not hope to list them. Try chucking up your ideas HERE and see how many MMO/PC/PvPers dash your ideas to tiny bits. Would be fun to see! I dare you to start a topic/thread on this.

    I couldnt care less how many nerds want to "clash with me" on my opinions. There are a select few who specialize in PVP in MMO's, but were not talking about the exception here, were talking about the whole thing. MMO players in general are the PVE crowd. FPS PVE crowd is the exception.

    Its basically like comparing the French Foreign legion to the US military. The legion may be very skilled at what they do, and a few Frenchman actually serve. Does that suddenly make the Frenchies expert at the martial arts? I dont think so son.

    Yes because Im going to go out of my way to post somewhere else on the website because you asked me to when I can argue my point equally well here? What are they going to do, swear at me and call me names? Must be that mature PC crowd you were talking about. Im real scurred.

    (((eyeroll))) 

    What, are you upset that your 14+ years of experience is putting me to sleep? Sorry that I dont just take anyone seriously because they say I have to. I kinda stopped taking you seriously the moment you brought SWG and TESO into the topic. Really now?

    You could not upset me as I know what type of gamer you are. I play twitch games as well, Halo by far my fav and my online time with Halo kicking other players butt was fun but some twitch gamers start to think the best or the best PvP is twitched based. Sure its fun and all but there is more strategy in MMOs like DAoC that flies right over the heads of most twitch gamers. Where my guild and I have taken on a hord of 100+ players and won with only 20-40 players. Not zerg style but weeks of plans and practice. Twitch is fun and is PvP but its only one kind and what I get from PC MMOing PvP is by far the depth and breadth I look for in my PvP that no console could supply. 

    Clearly you're upset because you've already resorted to making assumptions about me when you have no idea. You have to fit me into some prefabricated definition you've made up to make yourself feel better. Booohoo.

    The type of gamer I am is an experienced and realistic one. I know the will to win is far more important than anything you could possibly bring to the table. If me and my group is more tenacious and unrelenting than yours, you will lose. Bring all your strategy and planning that you want, at the end of the day if your hands quake and ours dont, you'll die, a lot. A calm and steady hand wins the day, and that is earned through experience.

    And clearly, FPS players are more experienced with that. It has nothing to do with twitch gaming though, I dont know where you got the idea it was based on that alone. Strats are easy. Within 3 months of any MMO is released, all the optimal strats are posted on dozens of websites. If thats your big claim to fame, you're gonna find the room your sitting in to be quite a bit crowded shortly.

    Im afraid consoles are going to be supplying strategic online gameplay, within a few short months. And once those flood gates open up, there aint gonna be no closing them. If guys like you had trouble dealing with the l33t speaking face pwners or whatever, well, its about to get a whole lot more interesting.

    Thanks I needed that lol. Thanks again for making me smile and all the best to you. Was a fun chat but I am afraid its grown a bit thin on your last post so I big you adieu. 

    Thats fine. At the end of the day you sound a hell of a lot more scared of console gamers than I do about PC gamers (which would be silly since I already play with them).

    Up to this point, most MMO's have been secluded to a largely isolated sector of the gaming world. WoW helped change a lot of that, but who wants to play WoW crap? Now if you bring in all those PS and Xbox "console kiddies", you go from being a big fish in a small pond to probably figuring out you werent as special as you thought you were.

    Im not at all bothered by it, because Im confident enough in my abilities that I will do fine regardless of who's playing. You and others like you, Im not so sure about. I just hope theres a few open world PVP games so I can see all the guys on my console friends list having a good time doing stuff you MMO boys cant handle. Thats the future if you ask me. Maybe they couldnt market it to you cream puffs but Im excited to see if possibly we can have mainstream open world PVP on console. It would make perfect sense, given the titles they're already used to.

    Im saying what you rejected, they will quite possibly embrace. And thats a great thing for me.

    Thing is those kids don't really like video games, most of them are just playing CoD and BF3 because it's cool and alright with their friends. Most of them are just playing with their friends cause it's the in thing to do...They don't care about the quality of the game, or the content really. And in the end unless Everquest Next is somehow related to Halo, CoD, or Battlefield those FPS players aren't going to give it a single second glance...Most people who aren't already somehow part of the MMO genre want nothing to do with it and see us as basement dwelling nerds.

     

    I wont even address the majority of the ignorance in your post. But this has been proven wrong already. Oblivion and Skyrim are basically single player MMO's that most of these "kids" would love to play with their friends. Which is exactly why Bethesda and Zenimax are cashing in on that.

    Your post is full of wishful thinking, but the genre that you've wasted away to practically nothing with the constant bitching and moaning since practically the very start is not going to be yours any longer. This genre has suffered long enough being marketed to people who werent going to pleased regardless of what product is being released. And its about damn time it was taken away from you to be honest. Game companies will have much more freedom in their design when marketing the game on consoles. As soon as this stuff gets released on consoles. they will sell the shit out of them. You have no vision if you think "basement dweller" even applies as a stigma with these games anymore, especially after WoW made it mainstream. But on merit of them releasing on console alone by your logic makes it socially acceptable.

    I cant even fathom where some people come up with this crap on here anymore. Its hillarious in a sad way.

    Actually I'd love to have more players and if they're interested that'll be great...I just don't see the big crossover from the FPS genre to MMOs, I think they're separate markets really. I know MMOFPS exist but they're not as big a hit as just standard FPS or MMOs tend to be. And I do still think the MMO stigma exists, hell I think there's a stigma on playing anything that isn't incredibly mainstream, and there's even still a bit of a stigma on video gaming in general. And part of the reason that the MMO community is never satisfied with new releases is because they're highly opinionated and they differ greatly in their opinions. Anyways, it's just my opinion that this nor any MMO will really appeal to the FPS community I've been exposed to over the years. Especially the die hard realistic shooter fans.

    On another note that's actually relevant to the main purpose of this thread I'd gladly play this on the PS4 if it's required specs are far and above my current system. And hopefully the servers will be mixed with players from both systems/consoles.

    --Custom Rig: Pyraxis---
    NZXT Phantom 410 Case
    Intel Core i5-4690 Processor - Quad Core, 6MB Smart Cache, 3.5GHz
    Asus Sabertooth Z87 Motherboard
    Asus GeForce GTX 760 Video Card - 2GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0
    Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 16GB

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,228Member Uncommon

    Servers are typically separate for different platforms. So while EQN may come to PS4 (very likely imo) same server play is very unlikely.

    As for the OP's question, even though I'm going to get a PS4, I'll just play it on PC (well assuming EQN appeals to me upon reveal and is not some FFA PvP game).

    Maybe it's just habit or tradition, but I generally prefer to game on the PC while my consoles have been reserved for exclusives and games that demand a huge screen for the spectacle of it all.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,440Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rusque

    Servers are typically separate for different platforms. So while EQN may come to PS4 (very likely imo) same server play is very unlikely.

    As for the OP's question, even though I'm going to get a PS4, I'll just play it on PC (well assuming EQN appeals to me upon reveal and is not some FFA PvP game).

    Maybe it's just habit or tradition, but I generally prefer to game on the PC while my consoles have been reserved for exclusives and games that demand a huge screen for the spectacle of it all.

    I have done the same thing. I will be getting a PS4 or a XB1 depending on what games I want more but some games IMO just play better on a PC and others on a console. Only MMO I would buy on a console would be a FPS style like Defiance.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • Electro057Electro057 Guelph, ONPosts: 658Member
    Originally posted by silvermember
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Been MMOing for 14+ years and spent most of it playing PvP MMOs like DAoC or on servers where I could get my PvP fill. I have been members of many PvP focused guilds and the only MMO I was part of a guild that was PvE focused was for EQ1. In my time MMOing I have gamed with so many hardcore PvPers in MMOs I could not hope to list them. Try chucking up your ideas HERE and see how many MMO/PC/PvPers dash your ideas to tiny bits. Would be fun to see! I dare you to start a topic/thread on this.

    I couldnt care less how many nerds want to "clash with me" on my opinions. There are a select few who specialize in PVP in MMO's, but were not talking about the exception here, were talking about the whole thing. MMO players in general are the PVE crowd. FPS PVE crowd is the exception.

    Its basically like comparing the French Foreign legion to the US military. The legion may be very skilled at what they do, and a few Frenchman actually serve. Does that suddenly make the Frenchies expert at the martial arts? I dont think so son.

    Yes because Im going to go out of my way to post somewhere else on the website because you asked me to when I can argue my point equally well here? What are they going to do, swear at me and call me names? Must be that mature PC crowd you were talking about. Im real scurred.

    (((eyeroll))) 

    What, are you upset that your 14+ years of experience is putting me to sleep? Sorry that I dont just take anyone seriously because they say I have to. I kinda stopped taking you seriously the moment you brought SWG and TESO into the topic. Really now?

    You could not upset me as I know what type of gamer you are. I play twitch games as well, Halo by far my fav and my online time with Halo kicking other players butt was fun but some twitch gamers start to think the best or the best PvP is twitched based. Sure its fun and all but there is more strategy in MMOs like DAoC that flies right over the heads of most twitch gamers. Where my guild and I have taken on a hord of 100+ players and won with only 20-40 players. Not zerg style but weeks of plans and practice. Twitch is fun and is PvP but its only one kind and what I get from PC MMOing PvP is by far the depth and breadth I look for in my PvP that no console could supply. 

    Clearly you're upset because you've already resorted to making assumptions about me when you have no idea. You have to fit me into some prefabricated definition you've made up to make yourself feel better. Booohoo.

    The type of gamer I am is an experienced and realistic one. I know the will to win is far more important than anything you could possibly bring to the table. If me and my group is more tenacious and unrelenting than yours, you will lose. Bring all your strategy and planning that you want, at the end of the day if your hands quake and ours dont, you'll die, a lot. A calm and steady hand wins the day, and that is earned through experience.

    And clearly, FPS players are more experienced with that. It has nothing to do with twitch gaming though, I dont know where you got the idea it was based on that alone. Strats are easy. Within 3 months of any MMO is released, all the optimal strats are posted on dozens of websites. If thats your big claim to fame, you're gonna find the room your sitting in to be quite a bit crowded shortly.

    Im afraid consoles are going to be supplying strategic online gameplay, within a few short months. And once those flood gates open up, there aint gonna be no closing them. If guys like you had trouble dealing with the l33t speaking face pwners or whatever, well, its about to get a whole lot more interesting.

    Thanks I needed that lol. Thanks again for making me smile and all the best to you. Was a fun chat but I am afraid its grown a bit thin on your last post so I big you adieu. 

    Thats fine. At the end of the day you sound a hell of a lot more scared of console gamers than I do about PC gamers (which would be silly since I already play with them).

    Up to this point, most MMO's have been secluded to a largely isolated sector of the gaming world. WoW helped change a lot of that, but who wants to play WoW crap? Now if you bring in all those PS and Xbox "console kiddies", you go from being a big fish in a small pond to probably figuring out you werent as special as you thought you were.

    Im not at all bothered by it, because Im confident enough in my abilities that I will do fine regardless of who's playing. You and others like you, Im not so sure about. I just hope theres a few open world PVP games so I can see all the guys on my console friends list having a good time doing stuff you MMO boys cant handle. Thats the future if you ask me. Maybe they couldnt market it to you cream puffs but Im excited to see if possibly we can have mainstream open world PVP on console. It would make perfect sense, given the titles they're already used to.

    Im saying what you rejected, they will quite possibly embrace. And thats a great thing for me.

    Thing is those kids don't really like video games, most of them are just playing CoD and BF3 because it's cool and alright with their friends. Most of them are just playing with their friends cause it's the in thing to do...They don't care about the quality of the game, or the content really. And in the end unless Everquest Next is somehow related to Halo, CoD, or Battlefield those FPS players aren't going to give it a single second glance...Most people who aren't already somehow part of the MMO genre want nothing to do with it and see us as basement dwelling nerds.

     

    Since when did you gain the ability to read the minds of everyone that plays CoD of BF3? Now, if you consider yourself a basement dwelling nerds good for you, but don't make assumptions about everyone else or how everyone thinks. Finally, they are more genres on the consoles that simply FPS. There are about 75 million ps3 for example and CoD only sells about 25 million of them on both consoles so let's assume (12 million on the ps3) that leaves about 63 million gamers that play other games that CoD.

    Yeah, and I'm sure some of that 63 million will be ecstatic to play EQN or some MMO on the PS4. However somebody was comparing PvP MMO players to FPS players and I just don't think there'll be that big of a crossover there. Just my personal opinion and it could be wrong, but the people I've met on CoD in the lobby and while playing other 'realistic shooters' could care less about MMO PvP or MMOS in general. Hell they'd probably see it as something below them...And that's why I was trying to say there wouldn't be that much crossover in that aspect. If there is then I'll gladly welcome more players, and I have no problem in the slightest with the genre expanding over the various consoles and platforms...I just doubt that people who've "trained all their lives in console FPS" as someone said earlier could give a flying fuck about MMO PvP.

    --Custom Rig: Pyraxis---
    NZXT Phantom 410 Case
    Intel Core i5-4690 Processor - Quad Core, 6MB Smart Cache, 3.5GHz
    Asus Sabertooth Z87 Motherboard
    Asus GeForce GTX 760 Video Card - 2GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0
    Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 16GB

  • HabitualFrogStompHabitualFrogStomp SydneyPosts: 281Member
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Been MMOing for 14+ years and spent most of it playing PvP MMOs like DAoC or on servers where I could get my PvP fill. I have been members of many PvP focused guilds and the only MMO I was part of a guild that was PvE focused was for EQ1. In my time MMOing I have gamed with so many hardcore PvPers in MMOs I could not hope to list them. Try chucking up your ideas HERE and see how many MMO/PC/PvPers dash your ideas to tiny bits. Would be fun to see! I dare you to start a topic/thread on this.

    I couldnt care less how many nerds want to "clash with me" on my opinions. There are a select few who specialize in PVP in MMO's, but were not talking about the exception here, were talking about the whole thing. MMO players in general are the PVE crowd. FPS PVE crowd is the exception.

    Its basically like comparing the French Foreign legion to the US military. The legion may be very skilled at what they do, and a few Frenchman actually serve. Does that suddenly make the Frenchies expert at the martial arts? I dont think so son.

    Yes because Im going to go out of my way to post somewhere else on the website because you asked me to when I can argue my point equally well here? What are they going to do, swear at me and call me names? Must be that mature PC crowd you were talking about. Im real scurred.

    (((eyeroll))) 

    What, are you upset that your 14+ years of experience is putting me to sleep? Sorry that I dont just take anyone seriously because they say I have to. I kinda stopped taking you seriously the moment you brought SWG and TESO into the topic. Really now?

    You could not upset me as I know what type of gamer you are. I play twitch games as well, Halo by far my fav and my online time with Halo kicking other players butt was fun but some twitch gamers start to think the best or the best PvP is twitched based. Sure its fun and all but there is more strategy in MMOs like DAoC that flies right over the heads of most twitch gamers. Where my guild and I have taken on a hord of 100+ players and won with only 20-40 players. Not zerg style but weeks of plans and practice. Twitch is fun and is PvP but its only one kind and what I get from PC MMOing PvP is by far the depth and breadth I look for in my PvP that no console could supply. 

    Clearly you're upset because you've already resorted to making assumptions about me when you have no idea. You have to fit me into some prefabricated definition you've made up to make yourself feel better. Booohoo.

    The type of gamer I am is an experienced and realistic one. I know the will to win is far more important than anything you could possibly bring to the table. If me and my group is more tenacious and unrelenting than yours, you will lose. Bring all your strategy and planning that you want, at the end of the day if your hands quake and ours dont, you'll die, a lot. A calm and steady hand wins the day, and that is earned through experience.

    And clearly, FPS players are more experienced with that. It has nothing to do with twitch gaming though, I dont know where you got the idea it was based on that alone. Strats are easy. Within 3 months of any MMO is released, all the optimal strats are posted on dozens of websites. If thats your big claim to fame, you're gonna find the room your sitting in to be quite a bit crowded shortly.

    Im afraid consoles are going to be supplying strategic online gameplay, within a few short months. And once those flood gates open up, there aint gonna be no closing them. If guys like you had trouble dealing with the l33t speaking face pwners or whatever, well, its about to get a whole lot more interesting.

    Thanks I needed that lol. Thanks again for making me smile and all the best to you. Was a fun chat but I am afraid its grown a bit thin on your last post so I big you adieu. 

    Thats fine. At the end of the day you sound a hell of a lot more scared of console gamers than I do about PC gamers (which would be silly since I already play with them).

    Up to this point, most MMO's have been secluded to a largely isolated sector of the gaming world. WoW helped change a lot of that, but who wants to play WoW crap? Now if you bring in all those PS and Xbox "console kiddies", you go from being a big fish in a small pond to probably figuring out you werent as special as you thought you were.

    Im not at all bothered by it, because Im confident enough in my abilities that I will do fine regardless of who's playing. You and others like you, Im not so sure about. I just hope theres a few open world PVP games so I can see all the guys on my console friends list having a good time doing stuff you MMO boys cant handle. Thats the future if you ask me. Maybe they couldnt market it to you cream puffs but Im excited to see if possibly we can have mainstream open world PVP on console. It would make perfect sense, given the titles they're already used to.

    Im saying what you rejected, they will quite possibly embrace. And thats a great thing for me.

    Thing is those kids don't really like video games, most of them are just playing CoD and BF3 because it's cool and alright with their friends. Most of them are just playing with their friends cause it's the in thing to do...They don't care about the quality of the game, or the content really. And in the end unless Everquest Next is somehow related to Halo, CoD, or Battlefield those FPS players aren't going to give it a single second glance...Most people who aren't already somehow part of the MMO genre want nothing to do with it and see us as basement dwelling nerds.

     

    I wont even address the majority of the ignorance in your post. But this has been proven wrong already. Oblivion and Skyrim are basically single player MMO's that most of these "kids" would love to play with their friends. Which is exactly why Bethesda and Zenimax are cashing in on that.

    Your post is full of wishful thinking, but the genre that you've wasted away to practically nothing with the constant bitching and moaning since practically the very start is not going to be yours any longer. This genre has suffered long enough being marketed to people who werent going to pleased regardless of what product is being released. And its about damn time it was taken away from you to be honest. Game companies will have much more freedom in their design when marketing the game on consoles. As soon as this stuff gets released on consoles. they will sell the shit out of them. You have no vision if you think "basement dweller" even applies as a stigma with these games anymore, especially after WoW made it mainstream. But on merit of them releasing on console alone by your logic makes it socially acceptable.

    I cant even fathom where some people come up with this crap on here anymore. Its hillarious in a sad way.

    Actually I'd love to have more players and if they're interested that'll be great...I just don't see the big crossover from the FPS genre to MMOs, I think they're separate markets really. I know MMOFPS exist but they're not as big a hit as just standard FPS or MMOs tend to be. And I do still think the MMO stigma exists, hell I think there's a stigma on playing anything that isn't incredibly mainstream, and there's even still a bit of a stigma on video gaming in general. And part of the reason that the MMO community is never satisfied with new releases is because they're highly opinionated and they differ greatly in their opinions. Anyways, it's just my opinion that this nor any MMO will really appeal to the FPS community I've been exposed to over the years. Especially the die hard realistic shooter fans.

    On another note that's actually relevant to the main purpose of this thread I'd gladly play this on the PS4 if it's required specs are far and above my current system. And hopefully the servers will be mixed with players from both systems/consoles.

    MMO's wont appeal on consoles then, is basically what you're saying. Based on what evidence? Bethesda seems to be banking that they will be in demand, I guess they put in less market research than you or are simply going on a whim. And outside the 5 people in the world who play FPS games exclusively, the vast majority of the gaming world will play more than one genre. Lets not be deliberately retarded.

    The line between genres in gaming blurs as technology gets more advanced. As game quality improves and different types of games become more palatable and accessible, more and more people will be willing to try them or try things they normally don't. CoD is the biggest selling franchise in video game history. Mainly because of its online play obviously. To think players who enjoy this type of gameplay are going to scoff at and outright shoot down a game that offers persistent online competition rather than just 15 minute bubble matches is, well again retarded. If its offered on console, these will be the people buying it, and playing it. MMO players from PC will hardly be buying consoles just to play MMO's on them, some will, but tapping into an untapped market is the idea. Oh, and it will be tapped.

    All of this is just posturing, and I think from the PC player again, its just wishful thinking. This thing is really going to take off on the next gen consoles, and the MMO genre is not going to be the same, and I cant imagine how it wouldn't be for the better.

    I guess we got a few more months to live in complete denial, in any event.

  • deveilbladdeveilblad Saint-Constant, QCPosts: 177Member
    This is a computer games website, obviously you will get 70%+ ( at least ) of votes for PC only lol...
  • Electro057Electro057 Guelph, ONPosts: 658Member
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Been MMOing for 14+ years and spent most of it playing PvP MMOs like DAoC or on servers where I could get my PvP fill. I have been members of many PvP focused guilds and the only MMO I was part of a guild that was PvE focused was for EQ1. In my time MMOing I have gamed with so many hardcore PvPers in MMOs I could not hope to list them. Try chucking up your ideas HERE and see how many MMO/PC/PvPers dash your ideas to tiny bits. Would be fun to see! I dare you to start a topic/thread on this.

    I couldnt care less how many nerds want to "clash with me" on my opinions. There are a select few who specialize in PVP in MMO's, but were not talking about the exception here, were talking about the whole thing. MMO players in general are the PVE crowd. FPS PVE crowd is the exception.

    Its basically like comparing the French Foreign legion to the US military. The legion may be very skilled at what they do, and a few Frenchman actually serve. Does that suddenly make the Frenchies expert at the martial arts? I dont think so son.

    Yes because Im going to go out of my way to post somewhere else on the website because you asked me to when I can argue my point equally well here? What are they going to do, swear at me and call me names? Must be that mature PC crowd you were talking about. Im real scurred.

    (((eyeroll))) 

    What, are you upset that your 14+ years of experience is putting me to sleep? Sorry that I dont just take anyone seriously because they say I have to. I kinda stopped taking you seriously the moment you brought SWG and TESO into the topic. Really now?

    You could not upset me as I know what type of gamer you are. I play twitch games as well, Halo by far my fav and my online time with Halo kicking other players butt was fun but some twitch gamers start to think the best or the best PvP is twitched based. Sure its fun and all but there is more strategy in MMOs like DAoC that flies right over the heads of most twitch gamers. Where my guild and I have taken on a hord of 100+ players and won with only 20-40 players. Not zerg style but weeks of plans and practice. Twitch is fun and is PvP but its only one kind and what I get from PC MMOing PvP is by far the depth and breadth I look for in my PvP that no console could supply. 

    Clearly you're upset because you've already resorted to making assumptions about me when you have no idea. You have to fit me into some prefabricated definition you've made up to make yourself feel better. Booohoo.

    The type of gamer I am is an experienced and realistic one. I know the will to win is far more important than anything you could possibly bring to the table. If me and my group is more tenacious and unrelenting than yours, you will lose. Bring all your strategy and planning that you want, at the end of the day if your hands quake and ours dont, you'll die, a lot. A calm and steady hand wins the day, and that is earned through experience.

    And clearly, FPS players are more experienced with that. It has nothing to do with twitch gaming though, I dont know where you got the idea it was based on that alone. Strats are easy. Within 3 months of any MMO is released, all the optimal strats are posted on dozens of websites. If thats your big claim to fame, you're gonna find the room your sitting in to be quite a bit crowded shortly.

    Im afraid consoles are going to be supplying strategic online gameplay, within a few short months. And once those flood gates open up, there aint gonna be no closing them. If guys like you had trouble dealing with the l33t speaking face pwners or whatever, well, its about to get a whole lot more interesting.

    Thanks I needed that lol. Thanks again for making me smile and all the best to you. Was a fun chat but I am afraid its grown a bit thin on your last post so I big you adieu. 

    Thats fine. At the end of the day you sound a hell of a lot more scared of console gamers than I do about PC gamers (which would be silly since I already play with them).

    Up to this point, most MMO's have been secluded to a largely isolated sector of the gaming world. WoW helped change a lot of that, but who wants to play WoW crap? Now if you bring in all those PS and Xbox "console kiddies", you go from being a big fish in a small pond to probably figuring out you werent as special as you thought you were.

    Im not at all bothered by it, because Im confident enough in my abilities that I will do fine regardless of who's playing. You and others like you, Im not so sure about. I just hope theres a few open world PVP games so I can see all the guys on my console friends list having a good time doing stuff you MMO boys cant handle. Thats the future if you ask me. Maybe they couldnt market it to you cream puffs but Im excited to see if possibly we can have mainstream open world PVP on console. It would make perfect sense, given the titles they're already used to.

    Im saying what you rejected, they will quite possibly embrace. And thats a great thing for me.

    Thing is those kids don't really like video games, most of them are just playing CoD and BF3 because it's cool and alright with their friends. Most of them are just playing with their friends cause it's the in thing to do...They don't care about the quality of the game, or the content really. And in the end unless Everquest Next is somehow related to Halo, CoD, or Battlefield those FPS players aren't going to give it a single second glance...Most people who aren't already somehow part of the MMO genre want nothing to do with it and see us as basement dwelling nerds.

     

    I wont even address the majority of the ignorance in your post. But this has been proven wrong already. Oblivion and Skyrim are basically single player MMO's that most of these "kids" would love to play with their friends. Which is exactly why Bethesda and Zenimax are cashing in on that.

    Your post is full of wishful thinking, but the genre that you've wasted away to practically nothing with the constant bitching and moaning since practically the very start is not going to be yours any longer. This genre has suffered long enough being marketed to people who werent going to pleased regardless of what product is being released. And its about damn time it was taken away from you to be honest. Game companies will have much more freedom in their design when marketing the game on consoles. As soon as this stuff gets released on consoles. they will sell the shit out of them. You have no vision if you think "basement dweller" even applies as a stigma with these games anymore, especially after WoW made it mainstream. But on merit of them releasing on console alone by your logic makes it socially acceptable.

    I cant even fathom where some people come up with this crap on here anymore. Its hillarious in a sad way.

    Actually I'd love to have more players and if they're interested that'll be great...I just don't see the big crossover from the FPS genre to MMOs, I think they're separate markets really. I know MMOFPS exist but they're not as big a hit as just standard FPS or MMOs tend to be. And I do still think the MMO stigma exists, hell I think there's a stigma on playing anything that isn't incredibly mainstream, and there's even still a bit of a stigma on video gaming in general. And part of the reason that the MMO community is never satisfied with new releases is because they're highly opinionated and they differ greatly in their opinions. Anyways, it's just my opinion that this nor any MMO will really appeal to the FPS community I've been exposed to over the years. Especially the die hard realistic shooter fans.

    On another note that's actually relevant to the main purpose of this thread I'd gladly play this on the PS4 if it's required specs are far and above my current system. And hopefully the servers will be mixed with players from both systems/consoles.

    MMO's wont appeal on consoles then, is basically what you're saying. Based on what evidence? Bethesda seems to be banking that they will be in demand, I guess they put in less market research than you or are simply going on a whim. And outside the 5 people in the world who play FPS games exclusively, the vast majority of the gaming world will play more than one genre. Lets not be deliberately retarded.

    The line between genres in gaming blurs as technology gets more advanced. As game quality improves and different types of games become more palatable and accessible, more and more people will be willing to try them or try things they normally don't. CoD is the biggest selling franchise in video game history. Mainly because of its online play obviously. To think players who enjoy this type of gameplay are going to scoff at and outright shoot down a game that offers persistent online competition rather than just 15 minute bubble matches is, well again retarded. If its offered on console, these will be the people buying it, and playing it. MMO players from PC will hardly be buying consoles just to play MMO's on them, some will, but tapping into an untapped market is the idea. Oh, and it will be tapped.

    All of this is just posturing, and I think from the PC player again, its just wishful thinking. This thing is really going to take off on the next gen consoles, and the MMO genre is not going to be the same, and I cant imagine how it wouldn't be for the better.

    I guess we got a few more months to live in complete denial, in any event.

    No, I'm not arguing that at all actually....didn't I just say that I'd gladly buy a console to play this and be more than happy to play with console players? I'm more than aware that the console market is ripe and ready to be plundered...I'm simply arguing that the people in the competitive FPS genre aren't probably going to be all that interested in MMO PvP like you kept saying. I'm not even arguing whether traditional players would be better or not, because I think that if this game is action oriented then perhaps FPS players would have the upper hand. I'm just not sure that the people who "live on console FPS and have hardened experience and steady hands" would be interested in this type of game XD Then again that's just my personal opinion, so I don't see why you're getting all defensive. From my personal experience, and from all the people I know that pretty much only have the various CoD titles on their 360....And that's a lot of people surprisingly...They don't really want anything to do with this, not in the slightest. 

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  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,440Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deveilblad
    This is a computer games website, obviously you will get 70%+ ( at least ) of votes for PC only lol...

    Then where are the console fan pages for MMOs? We can go there and vote for consoles =-) There are many reasons why MMOs end up mostly on PCs and the few MMOs that have corssed the market or released a MMO just for a console have only gotten limited success. The demands on tech for a MMOs has kept it mostly in the PC and thats before you take into account the advantage of mouse and keeyboard, add ons and the like. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,440Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Been MMOing for 14+ years and spent most of it playing PvP MMOs like DAoC or on servers where I could get my PvP fill. I have been members of many PvP focused guilds and the only MMO I was part of a guild that was PvE focused was for EQ1. In my time MMOing I have gamed with so many hardcore PvPers in MMOs I could not hope to list them. Try chucking up your ideas HERE and see how many MMO/PC/PvPers dash your ideas to tiny bits. Would be fun to see! I dare you to start a topic/thread on this.

    I couldnt care less how many nerds want to "clash with me" on my opinions. There are a select few who specialize in PVP in MMO's, but were not talking about the exception here, were talking about the whole thing. MMO players in general are the PVE crowd. FPS PVE crowd is the exception.

    Its basically like comparing the French Foreign legion to the US military. The legion may be very skilled at what they do, and a few Frenchman actually serve. Does that suddenly make the Frenchies expert at the martial arts? I dont think so son.

    Yes because Im going to go out of my way to post somewhere else on the website because you asked me to when I can argue my point equally well here? What are they going to do, swear at me and call me names? Must be that mature PC crowd you were talking about. Im real scurred.

    (((eyeroll))) 

    What, are you upset that your 14+ years of experience is putting me to sleep? Sorry that I dont just take anyone seriously because they say I have to. I kinda stopped taking you seriously the moment you brought SWG and TESO into the topic. Really now?

    You could not upset me as I know what type of gamer you are. I play twitch games as well, Halo by far my fav and my online time with Halo kicking other players butt was fun but some twitch gamers start to think the best or the best PvP is twitched based. Sure its fun and all but there is more strategy in MMOs like DAoC that flies right over the heads of most twitch gamers. Where my guild and I have taken on a hord of 100+ players and won with only 20-40 players. Not zerg style but weeks of plans and practice. Twitch is fun and is PvP but its only one kind and what I get from PC MMOing PvP is by far the depth and breadth I look for in my PvP that no console could supply. 

    Clearly you're upset because you've already resorted to making assumptions about me when you have no idea. You have to fit me into some prefabricated definition you've made up to make yourself feel better. Booohoo.

    The type of gamer I am is an experienced and realistic one. I know the will to win is far more important than anything you could possibly bring to the table. If me and my group is more tenacious and unrelenting than yours, you will lose. Bring all your strategy and planning that you want, at the end of the day if your hands quake and ours dont, you'll die, a lot. A calm and steady hand wins the day, and that is earned through experience.

    And clearly, FPS players are more experienced with that. It has nothing to do with twitch gaming though, I dont know where you got the idea it was based on that alone. Strats are easy. Within 3 months of any MMO is released, all the optimal strats are posted on dozens of websites. If thats your big claim to fame, you're gonna find the room your sitting in to be quite a bit crowded shortly.

    Im afraid consoles are going to be supplying strategic online gameplay, within a few short months. And once those flood gates open up, there aint gonna be no closing them. If guys like you had trouble dealing with the l33t speaking face pwners or whatever, well, its about to get a whole lot more interesting.

    Thanks I needed that lol. Thanks again for making me smile and all the best to you. Was a fun chat but I am afraid its grown a bit thin on your last post so I big you adieu. 

    Thats fine. At the end of the day you sound a hell of a lot more scared of console gamers than I do about PC gamers (which would be silly since I already play with them).

    Up to this point, most MMO's have been secluded to a largely isolated sector of the gaming world. WoW helped change a lot of that, but who wants to play WoW crap? Now if you bring in all those PS and Xbox "console kiddies", you go from being a big fish in a small pond to probably figuring out you werent as special as you thought you were.

    Im not at all bothered by it, because Im confident enough in my abilities that I will do fine regardless of who's playing. You and others like you, Im not so sure about. I just hope theres a few open world PVP games so I can see all the guys on my console friends list having a good time doing stuff you MMO boys cant handle. Thats the future if you ask me. Maybe they couldnt market it to you cream puffs but Im excited to see if possibly we can have mainstream open world PVP on console. It would make perfect sense, given the titles they're already used to.

    Im saying what you rejected, they will quite possibly embrace. And thats a great thing for me.

    Thing is those kids don't really like video games, most of them are just playing CoD and BF3 because it's cool and alright with their friends. Most of them are just playing with their friends cause it's the in thing to do...They don't care about the quality of the game, or the content really. And in the end unless Everquest Next is somehow related to Halo, CoD, or Battlefield those FPS players aren't going to give it a single second glance...Most people who aren't already somehow part of the MMO genre want nothing to do with it and see us as basement dwelling nerds.

     

    I wont even address the majority of the ignorance in your post. But this has been proven wrong already. Oblivion and Skyrim are basically single player MMO's that most of these "kids" would love to play with their friends. Which is exactly why Bethesda and Zenimax are cashing in on that.

    Your post is full of wishful thinking, but the genre that you've wasted away to practically nothing with the constant bitching and moaning since practically the very start is not going to be yours any longer. This genre has suffered long enough being marketed to people who werent going to pleased regardless of what product is being released. And its about damn time it was taken away from you to be honest. Game companies will have much more freedom in their design when marketing the game on consoles. As soon as this stuff gets released on consoles. they will sell the shit out of them. You have no vision if you think "basement dweller" even applies as a stigma with these games anymore, especially after WoW made it mainstream. But on merit of them releasing on console alone by your logic makes it socially acceptable.

    I cant even fathom where some people come up with this crap on here anymore. Its hillarious in a sad way.

    Actually I'd love to have more players and if they're interested that'll be great...I just don't see the big crossover from the FPS genre to MMOs, I think they're separate markets really. I know MMOFPS exist but they're not as big a hit as just standard FPS or MMOs tend to be. And I do still think the MMO stigma exists, hell I think there's a stigma on playing anything that isn't incredibly mainstream, and there's even still a bit of a stigma on video gaming in general. And part of the reason that the MMO community is never satisfied with new releases is because they're highly opinionated and they differ greatly in their opinions. Anyways, it's just my opinion that this nor any MMO will really appeal to the FPS community I've been exposed to over the years. Especially the die hard realistic shooter fans.

    On another note that's actually relevant to the main purpose of this thread I'd gladly play this on the PS4 if it's required specs are far and above my current system. And hopefully the servers will be mixed with players from both systems/consoles.

    MMO's wont appeal on consoles then, is basically what you're saying. Based on what evidence? Bethesda seems to be banking that they will be in demand, I guess they put in less market research than you or are simply going on a whim. And outside the 5 people in the world who play FPS games exclusively, the vast majority of the gaming world will play more than one genre. Lets not be deliberately retarded.

    The line between genres in gaming blurs as technology gets more advanced. As game quality improves and different types of games become more palatable and accessible, more and more people will be willing to try them or try things they normally don't. CoD is the biggest selling franchise in video game history. Mainly because of its online play obviously. To think players who enjoy this type of gameplay are going to scoff at and outright shoot down a game that offers persistent online competition rather than just 15 minute bubble matches is, well again retarded. If its offered on console, these will be the people buying it, and playing it. MMO players from PC will hardly be buying consoles just to play MMO's on them, some will, but tapping into an untapped market is the idea. Oh, and it will be tapped.

    All of this is just posturing, and I think from the PC player again, its just wishful thinking. This thing is really going to take off on the next gen consoles, and the MMO genre is not going to be the same, and I cant imagine how it wouldn't be for the better.

    I guess we got a few more months to live in complete denial, in any event.

    No, I'm not arguing that at all actually....didn't I just say that I'd gladly buy a console to play this and be more than happy to play with console players? I'm more than aware that the console market is ripe and ready to be plundered...I'm simply arguing that the people in the competitive FPS genre aren't probably going to be all that interested in MMO PvP like you kept saying. I'm not even arguing whether traditional players would be better or not, because I think that if this game is action oriented then perhaps FPS players would have the upper hand. I'm just not sure that the people who "live on console FPS and have hardened experience and steady hands" would be interested in this type of game XD Then again that's just my personal opinion, so I don't see why you're getting all defensive. From my personal experience, and from all the people I know that pretty much only have the various CoD titles on their 360....And that's a lot of people surprisingly...They don't really want anything to do with this, not in the slightest. 

    To really get that market they would need a solid twitch game and IP made into a IMO. Halo the MMO made just for consoles, or CoD. Something like that may get them.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • Electro057Electro057 Guelph, ONPosts: 658Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Been MMOing for 14+ years and spent most of it playing PvP MMOs like DAoC or on servers where I could get my PvP fill. I have been members of many PvP focused guilds and the only MMO I was part of a guild that was PvE focused was for EQ1. In my time MMOing I have gamed with so many hardcore PvPers in MMOs I could not hope to list them. Try chucking up your ideas HERE and see how many MMO/PC/PvPers dash your ideas to tiny bits. Would be fun to see! I dare you to start a topic/thread on this.

    I couldnt care less how many nerds want to "clash with me" on my opinions. There are a select few who specialize in PVP in MMO's, but were not talking about the exception here, were talking about the whole thing. MMO players in general are the PVE crowd. FPS PVE crowd is the exception.

    Its basically like comparing the French Foreign legion to the US military. The legion may be very skilled at what they do, and a few Frenchman actually serve. Does that suddenly make the Frenchies expert at the martial arts? I dont think so son.

    Yes because Im going to go out of my way to post somewhere else on the website because you asked me to when I can argue my point equally well here? What are they going to do, swear at me and call me names? Must be that mature PC crowd you were talking about. Im real scurred.

    (((eyeroll))) 

    What, are you upset that your 14+ years of experience is putting me to sleep? Sorry that I dont just take anyone seriously because they say I have to. I kinda stopped taking you seriously the moment you brought SWG and TESO into the topic. Really now?

    You could not upset me as I know what type of gamer you are. I play twitch games as well, Halo by far my fav and my online time with Halo kicking other players butt was fun but some twitch gamers start to think the best or the best PvP is twitched based. Sure its fun and all but there is more strategy in MMOs like DAoC that flies right over the heads of most twitch gamers. Where my guild and I have taken on a hord of 100+ players and won with only 20-40 players. Not zerg style but weeks of plans and practice. Twitch is fun and is PvP but its only one kind and what I get from PC MMOing PvP is by far the depth and breadth I look for in my PvP that no console could supply. 

    Clearly you're upset because you've already resorted to making assumptions about me when you have no idea. You have to fit me into some prefabricated definition you've made up to make yourself feel better. Booohoo.

    The type of gamer I am is an experienced and realistic one. I know the will to win is far more important than anything you could possibly bring to the table. If me and my group is more tenacious and unrelenting than yours, you will lose. Bring all your strategy and planning that you want, at the end of the day if your hands quake and ours dont, you'll die, a lot. A calm and steady hand wins the day, and that is earned through experience.

    And clearly, FPS players are more experienced with that. It has nothing to do with twitch gaming though, I dont know where you got the idea it was based on that alone. Strats are easy. Within 3 months of any MMO is released, all the optimal strats are posted on dozens of websites. If thats your big claim to fame, you're gonna find the room your sitting in to be quite a bit crowded shortly.

    Im afraid consoles are going to be supplying strategic online gameplay, within a few short months. And once those flood gates open up, there aint gonna be no closing them. If guys like you had trouble dealing with the l33t speaking face pwners or whatever, well, its about to get a whole lot more interesting.

    Thanks I needed that lol. Thanks again for making me smile and all the best to you. Was a fun chat but I am afraid its grown a bit thin on your last post so I big you adieu. 

    Thats fine. At the end of the day you sound a hell of a lot more scared of console gamers than I do about PC gamers (which would be silly since I already play with them).

    Up to this point, most MMO's have been secluded to a largely isolated sector of the gaming world. WoW helped change a lot of that, but who wants to play WoW crap? Now if you bring in all those PS and Xbox "console kiddies", you go from being a big fish in a small pond to probably figuring out you werent as special as you thought you were.

    Im not at all bothered by it, because Im confident enough in my abilities that I will do fine regardless of who's playing. You and others like you, Im not so sure about. I just hope theres a few open world PVP games so I can see all the guys on my console friends list having a good time doing stuff you MMO boys cant handle. Thats the future if you ask me. Maybe they couldnt market it to you cream puffs but Im excited to see if possibly we can have mainstream open world PVP on console. It would make perfect sense, given the titles they're already used to.

    Im saying what you rejected, they will quite possibly embrace. And thats a great thing for me.

    Thing is those kids don't really like video games, most of them are just playing CoD and BF3 because it's cool and alright with their friends. Most of them are just playing with their friends cause it's the in thing to do...They don't care about the quality of the game, or the content really. And in the end unless Everquest Next is somehow related to Halo, CoD, or Battlefield those FPS players aren't going to give it a single second glance...Most people who aren't already somehow part of the MMO genre want nothing to do with it and see us as basement dwelling nerds.

     

    I wont even address the majority of the ignorance in your post. But this has been proven wrong already. Oblivion and Skyrim are basically single player MMO's that most of these "kids" would love to play with their friends. Which is exactly why Bethesda and Zenimax are cashing in on that.

    Your post is full of wishful thinking, but the genre that you've wasted away to practically nothing with the constant bitching and moaning since practically the very start is not going to be yours any longer. This genre has suffered long enough being marketed to people who werent going to pleased regardless of what product is being released. And its about damn time it was taken away from you to be honest. Game companies will have much more freedom in their design when marketing the game on consoles. As soon as this stuff gets released on consoles. they will sell the shit out of them. You have no vision if you think "basement dweller" even applies as a stigma with these games anymore, especially after WoW made it mainstream. But on merit of them releasing on console alone by your logic makes it socially acceptable.

    I cant even fathom where some people come up with this crap on here anymore. Its hillarious in a sad way.

    Actually I'd love to have more players and if they're interested that'll be great...I just don't see the big crossover from the FPS genre to MMOs, I think they're separate markets really. I know MMOFPS exist but they're not as big a hit as just standard FPS or MMOs tend to be. And I do still think the MMO stigma exists, hell I think there's a stigma on playing anything that isn't incredibly mainstream, and there's even still a bit of a stigma on video gaming in general. And part of the reason that the MMO community is never satisfied with new releases is because they're highly opinionated and they differ greatly in their opinions. Anyways, it's just my opinion that this nor any MMO will really appeal to the FPS community I've been exposed to over the years. Especially the die hard realistic shooter fans.

    On another note that's actually relevant to the main purpose of this thread I'd gladly play this on the PS4 if it's required specs are far and above my current system. And hopefully the servers will be mixed with players from both systems/consoles.

    MMO's wont appeal on consoles then, is basically what you're saying. Based on what evidence? Bethesda seems to be banking that they will be in demand, I guess they put in less market research than you or are simply going on a whim. And outside the 5 people in the world who play FPS games exclusively, the vast majority of the gaming world will play more than one genre. Lets not be deliberately retarded.

    The line between genres in gaming blurs as technology gets more advanced. As game quality improves and different types of games become more palatable and accessible, more and more people will be willing to try them or try things they normally don't. CoD is the biggest selling franchise in video game history. Mainly because of its online play obviously. To think players who enjoy this type of gameplay are going to scoff at and outright shoot down a game that offers persistent online competition rather than just 15 minute bubble matches is, well again retarded. If its offered on console, these will be the people buying it, and playing it. MMO players from PC will hardly be buying consoles just to play MMO's on them, some will, but tapping into an untapped market is the idea. Oh, and it will be tapped.

    All of this is just posturing, and I think from the PC player again, its just wishful thinking. This thing is really going to take off on the next gen consoles, and the MMO genre is not going to be the same, and I cant imagine how it wouldn't be for the better.

    I guess we got a few more months to live in complete denial, in any event.

    No, I'm not arguing that at all actually....didn't I just say that I'd gladly buy a console to play this and be more than happy to play with console players? I'm more than aware that the console market is ripe and ready to be plundered...I'm simply arguing that the people in the competitive FPS genre aren't probably going to be all that interested in MMO PvP like you kept saying. I'm not even arguing whether traditional players would be better or not, because I think that if this game is action oriented then perhaps FPS players would have the upper hand. I'm just not sure that the people who "live on console FPS and have hardened experience and steady hands" would be interested in this type of game XD Then again that's just my personal opinion, so I don't see why you're getting all defensive. From my personal experience, and from all the people I know that pretty much only have the various CoD titles on their 360....And that's a lot of people surprisingly...They don't really want anything to do with this, not in the slightest. 

    To really get that market they would need a solid twitch game and IP made into a IMO. Halo the MMO made just for consoles, or CoD. Something like that may get them.

    Exactly what I was trying to get at really....I don't have any problem with them and if they decide to play with us that's great. I just doubt those hardcore fan sorts of Halo/CoD/BF3 and perhaps even Medal of Honor would be interested in an MMO set in Norrath. However many other console gamers might be....And I welcome them just as much and hope to see them in game and hope we all have a great time, whether it be cooperatively in building or leveling or in PvP. The more the merrier. 

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  • HabitualFrogStompHabitualFrogStomp SydneyPosts: 281Member

    You keep saying you "don't think FPS players would have any interest in playing MMO's." Theres absolutely no evidence to support this. And regardless, based on first hand analysis that basically everyone on my friends list that Ive met by exclusively playing CoD (since that's the only multiplayer I do on a console) also plays other titles, in almost all cases their game library consists of 20 games plus, of which maybe 3 or 4 are FPS. I would openly challenge anyone who has an Xbox right now, to open their friends list and choose the "compare games" option and find on person on there that has only played CoD or BF3 or Halo. People who buy an Xbox or PS3 do not simply just play FPS games, it doesn't happen. Ever. One does not buy a $250-500 dollar console and play one game. No where in the history of mankind has such an event been recorded. Enough with insisting this idiotic nonsense.

    Ive built a friends list of 2 separate consoles spanning 2 different countries, so I would have more say so on this than anyone here, Im sure. It doesn't happen.

    Now that the facts have been established, wether or not MMO's will be successful will be a small matter decided as I said, in a few months. No one can say for certain for now. But enough of the clamouring that FPS gamers aren't interested, that argument is void of any intelligence.

    Not that the term "MMO" isn't going to evolve to encompass something completely different than what is now on PC. I fully expect the console market to take the genre and reinvent it into something entirely better. Hotbars will obviously in most cases be a thing of the past. TESO will I think be a front runner to this end. (since they plan to at least minimize the hotbar to my knowledge.)

  • Electro057Electro057 Guelph, ONPosts: 658Member
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp

    You keep saying you "don't think FPS players would have any interest in playing MMO's." Theres absolutely no evidence to support this. And regardless, based on first hand analysis that basically everyone on my friends list that Ive met by exclusively playing CoD (since that's the only multiplayer I do on a console) also plays other titles, in almost all cases their game library consists of 20 games plus, of which maybe 3 or 4 are FPS. I would openly challenge anyone who has an Xbox right now, to open their friends list and choose the "compare games" option and find on person on there that has only played CoD or BF3 or Halo. People who buy an Xbox or PS3 do not simply just play FPS games, it doesn't happen. Ever. One does not buy a $250-500 dollar console and play one game. No where in the history of mankind has such an event been recorded. Enough with insisting this idiotic nonsense.

    Ive built a friends list of 2 separate consoles spanning 2 different countries, so I would have more say so on this than anyone here, Im sure. It doesn't happen.

    Now that the facts have been established, wether or not MMO's will be successful will be a small matter decided as I said, in a few months. No one can say for certain for now. But enough of the clamouring that FPS gamers aren't interested, that argument is void of any intelligence.

    Not that the term "MMO" isn't going to evolve to encompass something completely different than what is now on PC. I fully expect the console market to take the genre and reinvent it into something entirely better. Hotbars will obviously in most cases be a thing of the past. TESO will I think be a front runner to this end. (since they plan to at least minimize the hotbar to my knowledge.)

    That's cause it's just an opinion, that's the great thing about opinions....They don't really have to be founded upon fact or anything monumental. I've admitted numerous times that I may be wrong, and that'll be great...And I'll have a great time with these new players introduced into the genre. I just have my doubts if they'll bite and that likely won't change until it happens and we see some MMO become vastly popular on the console market. And even then I know some people that'd never play a game that isn't set in a modern campaign with humans only using guns in an FPS model....I actually know people that think anything else isn't worth their time and isn't "realistic enough". And that's my personal experience that molds my opinion, and until my experience changes my opinion won't....It's really as simple as that. I accept and realize that you're right, there are probably people out there that are into all sorts of games...But I also know that there's a great deal that are just into the realistic shooter genre. I live with four of them, they won't play anything else because in their words "That's gay." 

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  • HabitualFrogStompHabitualFrogStomp SydneyPosts: 281Member
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp

    You keep saying you "don't think FPS players would have any interest in playing MMO's." Theres absolutely no evidence to support this. And regardless, based on first hand analysis that basically everyone on my friends list that Ive met by exclusively playing CoD (since that's the only multiplayer I do on a console) also plays other titles, in almost all cases their game library consists of 20 games plus, of which maybe 3 or 4 are FPS. I would openly challenge anyone who has an Xbox right now, to open their friends list and choose the "compare games" option and find on person on there that has only played CoD or BF3 or Halo. People who buy an Xbox or PS3 do not simply just play FPS games, it doesn't happen. Ever. One does not buy a $250-500 dollar console and play one game. No where in the history of mankind has such an event been recorded. Enough with insisting this idiotic nonsense.

    Ive built a friends list of 2 separate consoles spanning 2 different countries, so I would have more say so on this than anyone here, Im sure. It doesn't happen.

    Now that the facts have been established, wether or not MMO's will be successful will be a small matter decided as I said, in a few months. No one can say for certain for now. But enough of the clamouring that FPS gamers aren't interested, that argument is void of any intelligence.

    Not that the term "MMO" isn't going to evolve to encompass something completely different than what is now on PC. I fully expect the console market to take the genre and reinvent it into something entirely better. Hotbars will obviously in most cases be a thing of the past. TESO will I think be a front runner to this end. (since they plan to at least minimize the hotbar to my knowledge.)

    That's cause it's just an opinion, that's the great thing about opinions....They don't really have to be founded upon fact or anything monumental. I've admitted numerous times that I may be wrong, and that'll be great...And I'll have a great time with these new players introduced into the genre. I just have my doubts if they'll bite and that likely won't change until it happens and we see some MMO become vastly popular on the console market. And even then I know some people that'd never play a game that isn't set in a modern campaign with humans only using guns in an FPS model....I actually know people that think anything else isn't worth their time and isn't "realistic enough". And that's my personal experience that molds my opinion, and until my experience changes my opinion won't....It's really as simple as that. I accept and realize that you're right, there are probably people out there that are into all sorts of games...But I also know that there's a great deal that are just into the realistic shooter genre. I live with four of them, they won't play anything else because in their words "That's gay." 

    So basically your opinion is formed based on 4 people you live with? I understand that our opinions are formed through our experiences, but one can not dismiss possibilities (or eventualities) that exist outside our own experience or understanding because one person can not experience everything.

    I have never been to Egypt, and hence never seen the pyramids, I do however know that they're there.

    If the people I lived with have never been to Egypt or seen the pyramids for themselves, I don't find that a compelling reason to stop believing in them either. But to each his own I suppose.

    The reason why most people play FPS is to compete. Sure, there are probably some NRA fanatics out there that just get off on shooting things. That's all good, I wouldn't label people like that "gamers" more like militant fanatics or just plain gun nuts, and I probably wouldn't put much stock into their skills as gamers in the first place.

    Real gamers just want to compete with others, that's generally what games are for after all, other than relaxation. The people who focus on competition are the ones I was referring to obviously, since they would be the best at their craft. And to them, I wouldn't rightly think it would matter too much what they are playing as long as theres someone to smash. That's why I think it will be such an awesome thrill for some people on consoles who haven't played MMO's before. So many of us have forgotten what its like to enter that first world for the first time. Im actually fairly excited for people who will be doing so for the first time. Perhaps that will rekindle some of my own interest in the genre. Only good things can come from it as far as Im concerned.

    Again though, I think its more than silly to assume that MMO's on consoles will not be at least somewhat twitch based, maybe 3-4 years into the life cycle of the next gen consoles we will see some truly innovative stuff. No more wow clones at least.

  • jonrd463jonrd463 Tacoma, WAPosts: 598Member

    @HabitualFrogStomp, re: Your entire premise.

     

    LOLWUT!?!?!

     

    I find your logic to be laughable. You seem incapable of separating the gamer from the game. Just because someone doesn't like PVP in an MMORPG doesn't mean they don't enjoy PVP in games specifically geared for it. If I jump into a game like Battlefield or even better, ArmA, my whole mindset is trained on how I intend to shoot the opposing force. I play as a guy with a gun using tactics to eliminate other players. It's a single-minded focus on a single-minded game.

    In an MMO, I want more than just that. I want to get immersed in the lore and storylines mmo's give. I want to work the market on the game economy. I want to explore the world the developers have crafted. And, on occasion, if I want to clash with other players in some form of organized PVP, I have the option available.

    Going by your logic, all gamers have ONE preference for ONE type of gameplay, period, and no allowance for deviation. Projecting much?

    It's as silly as saying "So you don't like mustard on a slice of pie, WELL WHY DO YOU PUT IT ON HOTDOGS, HUH?!? I THOUGHT YOU DIDN'T LIKE MUSTARD!!!"

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  • silvermembersilvermember saint paul, MNPosts: 531Member
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by silvermember
    Originally posted by Electro057
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Been MMOing for 14+ years and spent most of it playing PvP MMOs like DAoC or on servers where I could get my PvP fill. I have been members of many PvP focused guilds and the only MMO I was part of a guild that was PvE focused was for EQ1. In my time MMOing I have gamed with so many hardcore PvPers in MMOs I could not hope to list them. Try chucking up your ideas HERE and see how many MMO/PC/PvPers dash your ideas to tiny bits. Would be fun to see! I dare you to start a topic/thread on this.

    I couldnt care less how many nerds want to "clash with me" on my opinions. There are a select few who specialize in PVP in MMO's, but were not talking about the exception here, were talking about the whole thing. MMO players in general are the PVE crowd. FPS PVE crowd is the exception.

    Its basically like comparing the French Foreign legion to the US military. The legion may be very skilled at what they do, and a few Frenchman actually serve. Does that suddenly make the Frenchies expert at the martial arts? I dont think so son.

    Yes because Im going to go out of my way to post somewhere else on the website because you asked me to when I can argue my point equally well here? What are they going to do, swear at me and call me names? Must be that mature PC crowd you were talking about. Im real scurred.

    (((eyeroll))) 

    What, are you upset that your 14+ years of experience is putting me to sleep? Sorry that I dont just take anyone seriously because they say I have to. I kinda stopped taking you seriously the moment you brought SWG and TESO into the topic. Really now?

    You could not upset me as I know what type of gamer you are. I play twitch games as well, Halo by far my fav and my online time with Halo kicking other players butt was fun but some twitch gamers start to think the best or the best PvP is twitched based. Sure its fun and all but there is more strategy in MMOs like DAoC that flies right over the heads of most twitch gamers. Where my guild and I have taken on a hord of 100+ players and won with only 20-40 players. Not zerg style but weeks of plans and practice. Twitch is fun and is PvP but its only one kind and what I get from PC MMOing PvP is by far the depth and breadth I look for in my PvP that no console could supply. 

    Clearly you're upset because you've already resorted to making assumptions about me when you have no idea. You have to fit me into some prefabricated definition you've made up to make yourself feel better. Booohoo.

    The type of gamer I am is an experienced and realistic one. I know the will to win is far more important than anything you could possibly bring to the table. If me and my group is more tenacious and unrelenting than yours, you will lose. Bring all your strategy and planning that you want, at the end of the day if your hands quake and ours dont, you'll die, a lot. A calm and steady hand wins the day, and that is earned through experience.

    And clearly, FPS players are more experienced with that. It has nothing to do with twitch gaming though, I dont know where you got the idea it was based on that alone. Strats are easy. Within 3 months of any MMO is released, all the optimal strats are posted on dozens of websites. If thats your big claim to fame, you're gonna find the room your sitting in to be quite a bit crowded shortly.

    Im afraid consoles are going to be supplying strategic online gameplay, within a few short months. And once those flood gates open up, there aint gonna be no closing them. If guys like you had trouble dealing with the l33t speaking face pwners or whatever, well, its about to get a whole lot more interesting.

    Thanks I needed that lol. Thanks again for making me smile and all the best to you. Was a fun chat but I am afraid its grown a bit thin on your last post so I big you adieu. 

    Thats fine. At the end of the day you sound a hell of a lot more scared of console gamers than I do about PC gamers (which would be silly since I already play with them).

    Up to this point, most MMO's have been secluded to a largely isolated sector of the gaming world. WoW helped change a lot of that, but who wants to play WoW crap? Now if you bring in all those PS and Xbox "console kiddies", you go from being a big fish in a small pond to probably figuring out you werent as special as you thought you were.

    Im not at all bothered by it, because Im confident enough in my abilities that I will do fine regardless of who's playing. You and others like you, Im not so sure about. I just hope theres a few open world PVP games so I can see all the guys on my console friends list having a good time doing stuff you MMO boys cant handle. Thats the future if you ask me. Maybe they couldnt market it to you cream puffs but Im excited to see if possibly we can have mainstream open world PVP on console. It would make perfect sense, given the titles they're already used to.

    Im saying what you rejected, they will quite possibly embrace. And thats a great thing for me.

    Thing is those kids don't really like video games, most of them are just playing CoD and BF3 because it's cool and alright with their friends. Most of them are just playing with their friends cause it's the in thing to do...They don't care about the quality of the game, or the content really. And in the end unless Everquest Next is somehow related to Halo, CoD, or Battlefield those FPS players aren't going to give it a single second glance...Most people who aren't already somehow part of the MMO genre want nothing to do with it and see us as basement dwelling nerds.

     

    Since when did you gain the ability to read the minds of everyone that plays CoD of BF3? Now, if you consider yourself a basement dwelling nerds good for you, but don't make assumptions about everyone else or how everyone thinks. Finally, they are more genres on the consoles that simply FPS. There are about 75 million ps3 for example and CoD only sells about 25 million of them on both consoles so let's assume (12 million on the ps3) that leaves about 63 million gamers that play other games that CoD.

    Yeah, and I'm sure some of that 63 million will be ecstatic to play EQN or some MMO on the PS4. However somebody was comparing PvP MMO players to FPS players and I just don't think there'll be that big of a crossover there. Just my personal opinion and it could be wrong, but the people I've met on CoD in the lobby and while playing other 'realistic shooters' could care less about MMO PvP or MMOS in general. Hell they'd probably see it as something below them...And that's why I was trying to say there wouldn't be that much crossover in that aspect. If there is then I'll gladly welcome more players, and I have no problem in the slightest with the genre expanding over the various consoles and platforms...I just doubt that people who've "trained all their lives in console FPS" as someone said earlier could give a flying fuck about MMO PvP.

    You need a bigger sample size. You can't just state ancedotal evidence as fact.

    I do agree with you on one thing, console FPS player would be bad at mmo pvp, mainly becasue MMO PvP usually involves lots of memorization of button locations, crappy tab target combat and lots of grinding to get PvP gear+1 which console FPS players might not be used to, but can't say with certainty. Just to add, killing 10 rats continously would probably get them to quit as well. The things MMO players have been programmed to think they "like" by WOW would probably be a turn off for them, but obviously this is just my opinion.

  • GishgeronGishgeron Princeton, KYPosts: 1,287Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Have you played a MMO on a console before, other then a FPS? If you did how long did you play it? Reason I ask is I have. Console MMOs have to dumb down the game so they dont trip over the complexity of what you can do on a PC with a mouse and keyboard, mods, add ons, gaming keyboards and mice and the like. When a MMO first gets laughed on a new console all is good and right with the world, till a few years pass and the MMO quickly becomes outdated because its hampered because the console tech has fallen far behind PC tech. So now your MMO quickly becomes dated and the updated are scaled to outdated tech. Now new MMOs coming out have a huge advantage and your console MMO quickly loses players and you are left with a very small core of players who love the game and struggle to make it work. Less players paying to support the game means you start getting less and less content updates so now things fall apart and even your core of players who loves the game shrinks. I have been there and it sucks. 

     

      I've played a few different ones.  EQUO (PS2) and Phantasy Star Online (dreamcast) to begin with.  Now, PSO wasn't especially an MMO as it was a multiplayer lobby but since we are all on a site which regards GW1 to be an MMO I'm certain we can make an allowance for PSO since it came out WAY ahead of its time on a system that should have been defining consoles and their direction instead of being forgot.

      I'm going to address different parts of your post independently.  Lets start with the "dumbing down".  That's just not true.  EQUO didn't feel dumbed down at all.  IN fact you could have 15 or so skills mapped (maybe more...its been a very long time since I played that) at a given time and, with very little practice, be able to navigate them quickly.  If anything it took MORE thought and consideration.  Mapping a keyboard is actually stupid easy.  It mostly doesn't even matter where you stick things, all keys are pretty easy access.  When setting up your skills bar (and its associated pages that you navigated with triggers) you had to think about how you were going to rotate your skill use so that as you cleared on page you were ready to cycle to the next.  If anything that game was HARDER and MORE complex than most MMO's today, though I must digress that this is likely because of the direction MMO gaming has gone in since WoW.  The game does not HAVE to be dumbed down, it DOES have to be built around a controller and use creative and interesting ways to broaden what that input can do.

      If you want to discuss the many ways you can do that and actually enhance the game, I would love to do that in a brainstorming thread or message.  By all means, if you want to pick brains on THIS matter...feel free I promise I won't be hostile and we might have a few good ideals about it.

      Next, lets discuss player bases and populations.

      The premier reason you DON'T see more people (its not because they don't exist, look at daily players on COD) is that the barrier for entry is a little stupid.  On Xbox 360 you would have to buy the game, then pay for live, then pay the monthly fee, then disconnect the monthly fee if you are tired of it.  There is no trial period, and no way to test the waters.  All MMO games suffer from player bleed, they just infuse the game with more players constantly.  Xpacks, updates, events, ect...all serve to heighten interest.  The best way for a console to handle this is to go F2P.  F2P is a perfect thing for consoles.  Most console games have tons of DLC these days anyway, so the monetization wouldn't be something loathed.  Using Microsoft as the middle man (or sony or whoever) makes it better because people are more likely to dump cash into those companies than some random MMO team that might have had security issues. 

      In short, people are 100% more likely to spend small amounts of money in that system than on PC.  So long as it is not abusive...it would be successful.  Being F2P removes all barriers for entry.  Focusing on constant streams of small content updates keeps interest high, and easily supports the F2P model.  All of these will ensure a pretty solid 50-100K concurrent users at a given time if the game is GOOD.  There are ways to make a good game on consoles...considering ALL of the largest selling games are there. 

      Next, lets talk tech.

      I'm gonna be a little hostile here...you really don't pay attention to where the world is heading right now.  Very soon, the first server farms are gonna fire up to begin what I call "the great test".  See, right now hardware matters because your end user equipment is doing all the processing for the game and handling it.  These farms are going to do that for you...all your end needs to do is process streaming video.  Now, the REAL issue facing this is that input has to travel ALL THE WAY to that farm, and the video ALL THE WAY back.  Better internet connections are going to have to happen...services like Google fiber are going to need to become the norm.  Also, there will need to be farms set up all over the place to make them local to more areas and prevent lag.  All of this hinges on "ifs" but I feel its going to happen.  Its literally the only way to advance gaming any further without shutting consumers out.  This could easily be the last console generation if this takes off.  IN fact...PC hardware might see its last generation as well...since this applies to them as well.  The minute you can play any game using only hardware good enough to stream video...its open season for all users, rich and poor, to flood the market.  No longer will massively expensive hardware be holding back a large chunk of the market, and no longer will developers have to hold themselves back from using more advanced features because of it.

      In short, tech is soon never going to matter again.  Ever.  Watch and see.

    image

  • Electro057Electro057 Guelph, ONPosts: 658Member
      Next, lets talk tech.

      I'm gonna be a little hostile here...you really don't pay attention to where the world is heading right now.  Very soon, the first server farms are gonna fire up to begin what I call "the great test".  See, right now hardware matters because your end user equipment is doing all the processing for the game and handling it.  These farms are going to do that for you...all your end needs to do is process streaming video.  Now, the REAL issue facing this is that input has to travel ALL THE WAY to that farm, and the video ALL THE WAY back.  Better internet connections are going to have to happen...services like Google fiber are going to need to become the norm.  Also, there will need to be farms set up all over the place to make them local to more areas and prevent lag.  All of this hinges on "ifs" but I feel its going to happen.  Its literally the only way to advance gaming any further without shutting consumers out.  This could easily be the last console generation if this takes off.  IN fact...PC hardware might see its last generation as well...since this applies to them as well.  The minute you can play any game using only hardware good enough to stream video...its open season for all users, rich and poor, to flood the market.  No longer will massively expensive hardware be holding back a large chunk of the market, and no longer will developers have to hold themselves back from using more advanced features because of it.

      In short, tech is soon never going to matter again.  Ever.  Watch and see.

     

    Hmmmnnnnn, completely off topic and all that but I don't think this'll work just yet or atleast not in many countries as we simply don't have the infrastructure. I know here in rural Canada we still rely on dial-up and if you're lucky like me you can get satellite internet, because Bell doesn't see any reason to spend millions upon millions to lay down network infrastructure to service a very minority population...Or atleast a spread out population. And I'm sure that this isn't the only rural area in the world like this. 

    Then again I could be wrong and maybe I'm just stuck in one of the last few places that mostly only has dial-up access. 

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  • bladedancerbladedancer BrightonPosts: 38Member
    If I do get it, I'll most likely get it for my PC, looks interesting!

    Peter Griffin: you know those germans, if you dont join the party, they?ll come get ya

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,440Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gishgeron
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Have you played a MMO on a console before, other then a FPS? If you did how long did you play it? Reason I ask is I have. Console MMOs have to dumb down the game so they dont trip over the complexity of what you can do on a PC with a mouse and keyboard, mods, add ons, gaming keyboards and mice and the like. When a MMO first gets laughed on a new console all is good and right with the world, till a few years pass and the MMO quickly becomes outdated because its hampered because the console tech has fallen far behind PC tech. So now your MMO quickly becomes dated and the updated are scaled to outdated tech. Now new MMOs coming out have a huge advantage and your console MMO quickly loses players and you are left with a very small core of players who love the game and struggle to make it work. Less players paying to support the game means you start getting less and less content updates so now things fall apart and even your core of players who loves the game shrinks. I have been there and it sucks. 

     

      I've played a few different ones.  EQUO (PS2) and Phantasy Star Online (dreamcast) to begin with.  Now, PSO wasn't especially an MMO as it was a multiplayer lobby but since we are all on a site which regards GW1 to be an MMO I'm certain we can make an allowance for PSO since it came out WAY ahead of its time on a system that should have been defining consoles and their direction instead of being forgot.

      I'm going to address different parts of your post independently.  Lets start with the "dumbing down".  That's just not true.  EQUO didn't feel dumbed down at all.  IN fact you could have 15 or so skills mapped (maybe more...its been a very long time since I played that) at a given time and, with very little practice, be able to navigate them quickly.  If anything it took MORE thought and consideration.  Mapping a keyboard is actually stupid easy.  It mostly doesn't even matter where you stick things, all keys are pretty easy access.  When setting up your skills bar (and its associated pages that you navigated with triggers) you had to think about how you were going to rotate your skill use so that as you cleared on page you were ready to cycle to the next.  If anything that game was HARDER and MORE complex than most MMO's today, though I must digress that this is likely because of the direction MMO gaming has gone in since WoW.  The game does not HAVE to be dumbed down, it DOES have to be built around a controller and use creative and interesting ways to broaden what that input can do.

      If you want to discuss the many ways you can do that and actually enhance the game, I would love to do that in a brainstorming thread or message.  By all means, if you want to pick brains on THIS matter...feel free I promise I won't be hostile and we might have a few good ideals about it.

      Next, lets discuss player bases and populations.

      The premier reason you DON'T see more people (its not because they don't exist, look at daily players on COD) is that the barrier for entry is a little stupid.  On Xbox 360 you would have to buy the game, then pay for live, then pay the monthly fee, then disconnect the monthly fee if you are tired of it.  There is no trial period, and no way to test the waters.  All MMO games suffer from player bleed, they just infuse the game with more players constantly.  Xpacks, updates, events, ect...all serve to heighten interest.  The best way for a console to handle this is to go F2P.  F2P is a perfect thing for consoles.  Most console games have tons of DLC these days anyway, so the monetization wouldn't be something loathed.  Using Microsoft as the middle man (or sony or whoever) makes it better because people are more likely to dump cash into those companies than some random MMO team that might have had security issues. 

      In short, people are 100% more likely to spend small amounts of money in that system than on PC.  So long as it is not abusive...it would be successful.  Being F2P removes all barriers for entry.  Focusing on constant streams of small content updates keeps interest high, and easily supports the F2P model.  All of these will ensure a pretty solid 50-100K concurrent users at a given time if the game is GOOD.  There are ways to make a good game on consoles...considering ALL of the largest selling games are there. 

      Next, lets talk tech.

      I'm gonna be a little hostile here...you really don't pay attention to where the world is heading right now.  Very soon, the first server farms are gonna fire up to begin what I call "the great test".  See, right now hardware matters because your end user equipment is doing all the processing for the game and handling it.  These farms are going to do that for you...all your end needs to do is process streaming video.  Now, the REAL issue facing this is that input has to travel ALL THE WAY to that farm, and the video ALL THE WAY back.  Better internet connections are going to have to happen...services like Google fiber are going to need to become the norm.  Also, there will need to be farms set up all over the place to make them local to more areas and prevent lag.  All of this hinges on "ifs" but I feel its going to happen.  Its literally the only way to advance gaming any further without shutting consumers out.  This could easily be the last console generation if this takes off.  IN fact...PC hardware might see its last generation as well...since this applies to them as well.  The minute you can play any game using only hardware good enough to stream video...its open season for all users, rich and poor, to flood the market.  No longer will massively expensive hardware be holding back a large chunk of the market, and no longer will developers have to hold themselves back from using more advanced features because of it.

      In short, tech is soon never going to matter again.  Ever.  Watch and see.

    Red: The second you design the game around the controller you have dumbed it down for the PC gamers. This is outside what you can do in a game. I will give an eg. You are melee and a caster starts to blast you with fire spells. So you hit tab to switch targets, click your charge skill and at the same time you open your last bag and click the fire resist pot in your bag and by the time you do your charge skill has you at the mage and you click the macro that stuns the guy and at the same time yells "NEED A HEAL" Because the mage has you 1/2 health. Do that with a controller? No! 

    If not you better not put console and PC gamers on the same server as the PC gamer has an edge. Or remove the fire resist pots and remove the mecros etc and now its fair for both and dumbed down. EDIT: but this also makes people who use gaming mice and keyboards kings as they can still make macros =-)

    Yellow: I agree 100% F2P can do a lot for console MMOs but that does not stop the fact they normally get less players and because the updates are not as good for the console as the PC you lose more players.

    Pink: Ya I know about them, Im a IT guy but we are a long way off to having the world on fiber. Even a metro city like I live in... all the building need to be redone before they can support it. We are a long way off. 

    Like I said in a post a few pages back. When consoles dont need to dumb things down and tech really does not stand in the way of updates being as good for the PC... Im all for playing a MMO on a console but we are far from that.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • st3v3b0st3v3b0 Gainesville, FLPosts: 147Member Uncommon
    I really hope it does not come to consoles.  That only means that will have to dumb down the PC version to make it console friendly as I doubt they will make a completely separate game just to have it on both platforms.
  • jonrd463jonrd463 Tacoma, WAPosts: 598Member

    Let's not forget expansions and upgrades.

    On a PC, new things can be added to the existing game to take advantage of constantly evolving tech. I hate to bring WoW up in an EQN thread, but purely as an example, you couldn't pull off stuff from Cataclysm on the same computers that were top of the line in 2004 when WoW first came out without serious performance issues, if the hardware was even able to support it at all.

    A console is feature-locked on release, so whatever expansions/additions are made will have to be able to work on the console first, assuming PC and console players share the same game space. That means that it doesn't matter if you're using a revolutionary new graphics card a year after the PS4 is released, expansion content will only be as good as the PS4 can run.

    "You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    I honestly hope EQNext is a cross-platform game on PC and PS4 just so that I can feed of the collective angst of the PC-elite crowd and grow stronger and more devious in my maniacal, twisted powers.

    The collective cries of terror and outrage on these forums will be delicious, life sustaining happy juice.

    OP has a point, Sony.. SOE... lots of other MMOs going to PS4, the smiley face response, PS2 and DCUO already confirmed... PS4 EQN is happening folks.

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    I honestly hope EQNext is a cross-platform game on PC and PS4 just so that I can feed of the collective angst of the PC-elite crowd and grow stronger and more devious in my maniacal, twisted powers.

    lol nice one spock.  you got me on this. +1

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,440Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    I honestly hope EQNext is a cross-platform game on PC and PS4 just so that I can feed of the collective angst of the PC-elite crowd and grow stronger and more devious in my maniacal, twisted powers.

    The collective cries of terror and outrage on these forums will be delicious, life sustaining happy juice.

    OP has a point, Sony.. SOE... lots of other MMOs going to PS4, the smiley face response, PS2 and DCUO already confirmed... PS4 EQN is happening folks.

    If your are right get ready for 1 of 2 things. 1. A dumbed down bad PC game like DCU. Played it and the UI alone makes me hate it as its so clearly designed for a controller. Or 2. A bad console game as it will not come close to reflecting the PC game and as the years roll by they will need to keep up to the PC tech or fall short of newer MMOs coming out just so console gamers dont feel cheated. 

    Unless they have come up with a new way to do things =-) If they have found a way to cross that line no one else has pulled off, I would love to see it.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


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