This again is completely wrong, you are not forced to cast Blizzard 3,2,1 at all. You do not spam fire 1,2,3.
You don't even know how Transpose works judging from your analysis above.
You have clearly not played BLM or THM. Why are you still posting about it?
You just sound like you are doing suboptimal dps. You don't HAVE to do anything. You can sit there and hope for thunder procs if you want. But keeping those buffs up is going to give you optimal DPS. Instead of saying that I don't know how transpose works, would you mind telling me how it works?
I am sorry, i don't want to offend you or talk you down. But you have no clue because you did not play it and you just making things up giving everyone the wrong information!
1. Read the description of the thunder proc. Understand it then do the maths. I am not backpedaling. Just READ AND UNDERSTAND IT. I do the maths for you again. 40 x 18 + 300 = ???
Thunder III only procs 6 times over 18 seconds, not 18 times over 18 seconds. And there is only a 5% chance of it proccing an instant every time it ticks for each stack of thunder. And the instant only does 300 total potency (40 per tick x 6 procs + 60 original potency). I don't know why you are not accepting that Thunder procs every 3 seconds, not 1 second. Especially since you played I would have thought you would have been aware of this.
2. You don't need to wait 12 seconds. You don't even know how much MP Umbral restores per tick so you can't even accurately say how long you need to wait. You just make things up having NOT PLAYED THE GAME
I have played the game by the way. And you do need to wait at least 12 seconds to recast transpose. I'm not sure what you are reading or what you are playing, but transpose has a 12 second cooldown.
3. Transpose from Fire 3 does not give you Umbral 3 or vice versa. That's all i am going to say. Again, you are not reading the skills and you have not played the characters.
Here is something to wrap your head around. You can transpose, instant cast sleep while the mob has 3 stacks of thunder DOT on him, lethargy it, stone skin yourself, transpose and off you go nuking again possibly with a free 1000+ thunder 3. The DOT does not wake up the mob.
I'm aware you can do other things. I was talking about doing optimal DPS in a group. And your ideas about thunder are just incredibly off. And when it comes to your idea about transpose, the buffs would have expired 2 seconds ago because transpose has a 12 second cooldown and the buffs only last 10 seconds. That is why I would recommend when keeping the buffs up that you cast the longest cast first so that when you get to the end of 9 seconds worth of casting, you still have as much time as possible to do some things in between.
Again, I play tested it this weekend on my level 50 THM | BLM. I spend about 1.5 hours on level 50 water elementals testing damage, spells, rotations, skills from other classes, Darklight Gear, AF Gear, food and much more.
This again is completely wrong, you are not forced to cast Blizzard 3,2,1 at all. You do not spam fire 1,2,3.
You don't even know how Transpose works judging from your analysis above.
You have clearly not played BLM or THM. Why are you still posting about it?
You just sound like you are doing suboptimal dps. You don't HAVE to do anything. You can sit there and hope for thunder procs if you want. But keeping those buffs up is going to give you optimal DPS. Instead of saying that I don't know how transpose works, would you mind telling me how it works?
I am sorry, i don't want to offend you or talk you down. But you have no clue because you did not play it and you just making things up giving everyone the wrong information!
1. Read the description of the thunder proc. Understand it then do the maths. I am not backpedaling. Just READ AND UNDERSTAND IT. I do the maths for you again. 40 x 18 + 300 = ???
Thunder III only procs 6 times over 18 seconds, not 18 times over 18 seconds. And there is only a 5% chance of it proccing an instant every time it ticks. And the instant only does 300 total potency (40 per tick x 6 procs + 60 original potency). I don't know why you are not accepting that Thunder procs every 3 seconds, not 1 second. Especially since you played I would have thought you would have been aware of this.
2. You don't need to wait 12 seconds. You don't even know how much MP Umbral restores per tick so you can't even accurately say how long you need to wait. You just make things up having NOT PLAYED THE GAME
I have played the game by the way. And you do need to wait at least 12 seconds to recast transpose. I'm not sure what you are reading or what you are playing, but transpose has a 12 second cooldown.
3. Transpose from Fire 3 does not give you Umbral 3 or vice versa. That's all i am going to say. Again, you are not reading the skills and you have not played the characters.
Here is something to wrap your head around. You can transpose, instant cast sleep while the mob has 3 stacks of thunder DOT on him, lethargy it, stone skin yourself, transpose and off you go nuking again possibly with a free 1000+ thunder 3. The DOT does not wake up the mob.
I'm aware you can do other things. I was talking about doing optimal DPS in a group. And your ideas about thunder are just incredibly off. And when it comes to your idea about transpose, the buffs would have expired 2 seconds ago because transpose has a 12 second cooldown and the buffs only last 10 seconds. That is why I would recommend when keeping the buffs up that you cast the longest cast first so that when you get to the end of 9 seconds worth of casting, you still have as much time as possible to do some things in between.
Again, I play tested it this weekend on my level 50 THM | BLM. I spend about 1.5 hours on level 50 water elementals testing damage, spells, rotations, skills from other classes, Darklight Gear, AF Gear, food and much more.
Sorry OP but you really have no clue, you are not taking into account the gear bonus's and such that lower all your times and what not....just stop trying to talk from your lvl 15 experience when a lvl 50 fully decked is telling you otherwise. Your basing your claims off of tooltips...
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
This again is completely wrong, you are not forced to cast Blizzard 3,2,1 at all. You do not spam fire 1,2,3.
You don't even know how Transpose works judging from your analysis above.
You have clearly not played BLM or THM. Why are you still posting about it?
You just sound like you are doing suboptimal dps. You don't HAVE to do anything. You can sit there and hope for thunder procs if you want. But keeping those buffs up is going to give you optimal DPS. Instead of saying that I don't know how transpose works, would you mind telling me how it works?
I am sorry, i don't want to offend you or talk you down. But you have no clue because you did not play it and you just making things up giving everyone the wrong information!
1. Read the description of the thunder proc. Understand it then do the maths. I am not backpedaling. Just READ AND UNDERSTAND IT. I do the maths for you again. 40 x 18 + 300 = ???
Thunder III only procs 6 times over 18 seconds, not 18 times over 18 seconds. And there is only a 5% chance of it proccing an instant every time it ticks. And the instant only does 300 total potency (40 per tick x 6 procs + 60 original potency). I don't know why you are not accepting that Thunder procs every 3 seconds, not 1 second. Especially since you played I would have thought you would have been aware of this.
2. You don't need to wait 12 seconds. You don't even know how much MP Umbral restores per tick so you can't even accurately say how long you need to wait. You just make things up having NOT PLAYED THE GAME
I have played the game by the way. And you do need to wait at least 12 seconds to recast transpose. I'm not sure what you are reading or what you are playing, but transpose has a 12 second cooldown.
3. Transpose from Fire 3 does not give you Umbral 3 or vice versa. That's all i am going to say. Again, you are not reading the skills and you have not played the characters.
Here is something to wrap your head around. You can transpose, instant cast sleep while the mob has 3 stacks of thunder DOT on him, lethargy it, stone skin yourself, transpose and off you go nuking again possibly with a free 1000+ thunder 3. The DOT does not wake up the mob.
I'm aware you can do other things. I was talking about doing optimal DPS in a group. And your ideas about thunder are just incredibly off. And when it comes to your idea about transpose, the buffs would have expired 2 seconds ago because transpose has a 12 second cooldown and the buffs only last 10 seconds. That is why I would recommend when keeping the buffs up that you cast the longest cast first so that when you get to the end of 9 seconds worth of casting, you still have as much time as possible to do some things in between.
Again, I play tested it this weekend on my level 50 THM | BLM. I spend about 1.5 hours on level 50 water elementals testing damage, spells, rotations, skills from other classes, Darklight Gear, AF Gear, food and much more.
Sorry OP but you really have no clue, you are not taking into account the gear bonus's and such that lower all your times and what not....just stop trying to talk from your lvl 15 experience when a lvl 50 fully decked is telling you otherwise. Your basing your claims off of tooltips...
What piece of gear makes thunder proc every second instead of every three?
I don't know which spell list you are basing this off but i noted the damage in the log and a free thunder 3 did roughly 700 + 300 damage. Free Fire 3 did between 700-800 with Astral 3 up. The damage tick was every 3 seconds for total of around 120 damage so 40 damage per second.
Why don't we just wait for the open beta and final adjustments before speculating on these beta numbers.
PS: Come to think of it the difference in numbers might come from Astral 3 affecting Thunder as well. not sure, i have not tested that.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
as much as i enjoy reading the theory crafting an too those that take the time too prove what works, what don't. it is still beta, they can go ok that skill was too good, here a new set or incoming nerf
I don't know which spell list you are basing this off but i noted the damage in the log and a free thunder 3 did roughly 700 + 300 damage. Free Fire 3 did between 700-800 with Astral 3 up. The damage tick was every 3 seconds for total of around 120 damage so 40 damage per second.
Why don't we just wait for the open beta and final adjustments before speculating on these beta numbers.
PS: Come to think of it the difference in numbers might come from Astral 3 affecting Thunder as well. not sure, i have not tested that.
We are talking potency, not damage. I thought that was where the original disconnect was coming from, but then you started mathing with 18 ticks. Either way, it's 300 potency for a thunder III instant.
What's funny is that I'm probably going to grab this game and roll black mage just because of this one thread. It does look like, at least at end game, they want combat to be pretty interesting for the players. While it visually looks like there aren't an incredible amount of skills or anything, it looks like it's shaping up to be a pretty intensely demanding job to do well. And maybe I will call it quits for now and check it out in the next beta.
What's funny is that I'm probably going to grab this game and roll black mage just because of this one thread. It does look like, at least at end game, they want combat to be pretty interesting for the players. While it visually looks like there aren't an incredible amount of skills or anything, it looks like it's shaping up to be a pretty intensely demanding job to do well. And maybe I will call it quits for now and check it out in the next beta.
I played some dungeons and i can tell you that playing BLM or THM is not boring or pressing a simple rotation. You will be the main sleeper for adds, always on alert for your free Nuke procs keeping dots and debuff up and to top it all you will most of the time be the one that uses the limit break since a lot of the bosses have adds and the BLM limit break is a very strong AoE that clears the field.
I enjoyed playing it and it gets very hectic and is not at all slow paced like FFXI is.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
I played a THM exclusively the first weekend up to about 23, and this is how things worked out for me around that level:
Thunder 2 > Thunder > Fire to apply Astral Buff > keep spamming Fire (or Fire 2 in the case of multiple mobs) until MP is gone > Transpose > reapply Thunder spells > spam Scathe until Umbral buff wears off > go back to spamming Fire
I chose to use Scathe in place of Blizzard because it requires an extra Fire spell to remove the Umbral buff and reapply Astral. I wasn't paying close attention to how fast Transpose was refreshing, but my concern was making sure it was ready by the time I ran out of MP from spamming Fire again, and it seemed like the CD was resetting pretty close to the time where I had ran out of MP by spamming Fire again.
I messed around a bit with my level 50 character this weekend, but I'm still trying to find the optimal setup for having all the skills up to level 50. Maybe with having Blizzard III that I could spam that instead of Scathe and wait for the CD on Transpose, but there is the matter of the Scathe passive and Blizzard III's casting time to consider, so I'm not sure what would be best. Using the CD to make Flare an instant cast is a great way to use the rest of your MP before a Transpose though.
I've been tooling around with something like this for high level:
Thunder 3 > Thunder 2 > Thunder > Fire III > Fire III spam (or Fire 2 for multiple mobs) > Instant Flare when CD available > Transpose > reapply Thunder > Blizzard III or Scathe depending on damage potential > Transpose or not depending on which of the spells before to cast > back to Fire spam
I could be totally off base on this though as I'm terrible at theorycrafting.
LOL glad to see you two worked it out, and damn you I plan to go WHM, but your are seriously making a DPS(which I normally find boring) look like a lot of fun. =P
... Using the CD to make Flare an instant cast is a great way to use the rest of your MP before a Transpose though.
Yes, If there is no need to keep that instant cast sleep available you should always use instant cast Flare before you transpose with that little sliver of MP you have left.
BLM is all about adapting to the situation, the combo triggers, using MP effetively and not forgetting to transpose at the right time which can happen and it totally messes up your groove
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Comments
Sorry OP but you really have no clue, you are not taking into account the gear bonus's and such that lower all your times and what not....just stop trying to talk from your lvl 15 experience when a lvl 50 fully decked is telling you otherwise. Your basing your claims off of tooltips...
What piece of gear makes thunder proc every second instead of every three?
I don't know which spell list you are basing this off but i noted the damage in the log and a free thunder 3 did roughly 700 + 300 damage. Free Fire 3 did between 700-800 with Astral 3 up. The damage tick was every 3 seconds for total of around 120 damage so 40 damage per second.
Why don't we just wait for the open beta and final adjustments before speculating on these beta numbers.
PS: Come to think of it the difference in numbers might come from Astral 3 affecting Thunder as well. not sure, i have not tested that.
We are talking potency, not damage. I thought that was where the original disconnect was coming from, but then you started mathing with 18 ticks. Either way, it's 300 potency for a thunder III instant.
What's funny is that I'm probably going to grab this game and roll black mage just because of this one thread. It does look like, at least at end game, they want combat to be pretty interesting for the players. While it visually looks like there aren't an incredible amount of skills or anything, it looks like it's shaping up to be a pretty intensely demanding job to do well. And maybe I will call it quits for now and check it out in the next beta.
I played some dungeons and i can tell you that playing BLM or THM is not boring or pressing a simple rotation. You will be the main sleeper for adds, always on alert for your free Nuke procs keeping dots and debuff up and to top it all you will most of the time be the one that uses the limit break since a lot of the bosses have adds and the BLM limit break is a very strong AoE that clears the field.
I enjoyed playing it and it gets very hectic and is not at all slow paced like FFXI is.
I played a THM exclusively the first weekend up to about 23, and this is how things worked out for me around that level:
Thunder 2 > Thunder > Fire to apply Astral Buff > keep spamming Fire (or Fire 2 in the case of multiple mobs) until MP is gone > Transpose > reapply Thunder spells > spam Scathe until Umbral buff wears off > go back to spamming Fire
I chose to use Scathe in place of Blizzard because it requires an extra Fire spell to remove the Umbral buff and reapply Astral. I wasn't paying close attention to how fast Transpose was refreshing, but my concern was making sure it was ready by the time I ran out of MP from spamming Fire again, and it seemed like the CD was resetting pretty close to the time where I had ran out of MP by spamming Fire again.
I messed around a bit with my level 50 character this weekend, but I'm still trying to find the optimal setup for having all the skills up to level 50. Maybe with having Blizzard III that I could spam that instead of Scathe and wait for the CD on Transpose, but there is the matter of the Scathe passive and Blizzard III's casting time to consider, so I'm not sure what would be best. Using the CD to make Flare an instant cast is a great way to use the rest of your MP before a Transpose though.
I've been tooling around with something like this for high level:
Thunder 3 > Thunder 2 > Thunder > Fire III > Fire III spam (or Fire 2 for multiple mobs) > Instant Flare when CD available > Transpose > reapply Thunder > Blizzard III or Scathe depending on damage potential > Transpose or not depending on which of the spells before to cast > back to Fire spam
I could be totally off base on this though as I'm terrible at theorycrafting.
Yes, If there is no need to keep that instant cast sleep available you should always use instant cast Flare before you transpose with that little sliver of MP you have left.
BLM is all about adapting to the situation, the combo triggers, using MP effetively and not forgetting to transpose at the right time which can happen and it totally messes up your groove