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Duty Finder

KobaoKobao KausalaPosts: 26Member Uncommon

I just stumbled on this while searching info about the game. Is this feature actually coming? I was kind of interested to try the game now, but my interest was killed right after reading about this. Automatically searches suitable member from all servers... just, ARGH. Why nobody has the guts to do things differently than Blizzard? Blizzard's game design is like plague that keeps on spreading.

 

This feature was the final blow to my WoW career, and interest in MMORPG's in general. Haven't really played a MMORPG in 3.5 years.

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Comments

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,544Member Uncommon

     

    So the inclusion of an optional feature that people argue on is cause for you to not be interested in a game?

     

    Any type of party finder is not a bane to MMORPGs; in fact, it's almost a requirement now if you want your MMORPG to be a huge success.  It's why games that didn't release one either have by now, are are deeply considering it.  Those who claim it "ruins" the community are full of it as all it does is give you access to more people to play with.  It makes it so you don't have to wait 10 hours for a party for some content.  It takes away the 5 hours to find a group that FFXI was also known for.  It will also make sure all classes are relevant in some way as opposed to everyone just picking one class, as it was in 1.0 and recently in XI with Abysea.

     

    I'll find a quote by Wildstar's lead developer on this point in a few minutes.  Though the moment a LFG finder was implemented in SWTOR, it became a more tolerable game.  In realizing this, even the Guild Wars 2 community made it's own LFG via websites and cell phone applications.  It just speeds things up, and does not make anyone any more sour than they already would have been by simply yelling "LF DPS" in general chat and hoping to find a stranger that way.  People will always be immature regardless of the form they are found; this feature is also easily avoided if one finds a group of friends to "static" with, and then one doesn't even have to worry about it.

     

    Edit:

    I believe ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct9Ogn7AazM ) has the quote.  Though it's a 90 minute long video.  If it isn't there I'll look for another video.

     

    Taken from my future post:

    "It's a valid taste to have in games, please don't get me wrong.  There have been good points against it, but as a whole it fixes more things and helps more people than it offends.  For instance someone might argue that someone might be less inclined to be a jerk if they're on your same server.  Though nowadays I'd even question that, as I'm sure we all see quite a lot of open jerks on our servers no matter the game we play.  Some may also think it affects the world pride, but a game that has it also has to make sure they build a game from the ground up that will properly support it and perhaps have reason to have it."

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • KobaoKobao KausalaPosts: 26Member Uncommon
    I see your point, and understand. This is just my taste in games, and am wondering whether the feature will be in FFXIV. Does the system create the groups automatically and summon them to the dungeon? It would be more ok (for me), if those two don't apply.
  • NetSageNetSage Lake Geneva, WIPosts: 1,040Member Uncommon
    I imagine it would since it's search across servers.
  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kobao
    I see your point, and understand. This is just my taste in games, and am wondering whether the feature will be in FFXIV. Does the system create the groups automatically and summon them to the dungeon? It would be more ok (for me), if those two don't apply.

     

    It's a valid taste to have in games, please don't get me wrong.  There have been good points against it, but as a whole it fixes more things and helps more people than it offends.  For instance someone might argue that someone might be less inclined to be a jerk if they're on your same server.  Though nowadays I'd even question that, as I'm sure we all see quite a lot of open jerks on our servers no matter the game we play.  Some may also think it affects the world pride, but a game that has it also has to make sure they build a game from the ground up that will properly support it and perhaps have reason to have it.

     

    I'm not sure what entails the Duty Finder at the moment.  Though we're hoping it will help people play their favorite jobs without the discrimination that was found in 1.0 or in other games.  It will pool players from their own data centers for dungeon content and the like.  Might even be able to find people on your server to do world content with (we're not really sure at the moment).  Will also likely be used with PvP content if you don't have a group of people to enter it with.  The game will give / have it's own PvP skills separate from PvE ones, though.  So the two won't nerf or make each other more powerful presumably.

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • zaylinzaylin Olympia, WAPosts: 789Member

    Dont let features like this ruin the base game that you enjoy, if its not of your taste dont use it. I honestly did not like LFG finders and felt similar, my view is that it was taking away from the exploration.But Only I can do that to my self

    At the same time, when I was first getting into MMOs I had time (single) to wait around if need be for 1+ hours for a group. Now that Im a family man, the LFG finders are a nice added feature for me if i get tired of questing/leveling and wan the challenge of a dungeon with out having to wait a long period of time.

  • jskeets916jskeets916 Folsom, CAPosts: 154Member
    Originally posted by Kobao

    I just stumbled on this while searching info about the game. Is this feature actually coming? I was kind of interested to try the game now, but my interest was killed right after reading about this. Automatically searches suitable member from all servers... just, ARGH. Why nobody has the guts to do things differently than Blizzard? Blizzard's game design is like plague that keeps on spreading.

     

    This feature was the final blow to my WoW career, and interest in MMORPG's in general. Haven't really played a MMORPG in 3.5 years.

    I understand your point but i agree with Yaevindusk's post in addressing it.

    The main thing I would like to add is this option is mostly for convenience/speed purposes, not quality.

    This isn't the WoW community where everything is instanced and your just thrown in with a random group for your typical dungeon.

    If you want to be successful in this game, your chances are much higher joining a guild or static as mentioned with players who have proven their skills.

    Think of this as a way to meet potential members of your friends list or branch out to different parts of the community without have to spam in /shout.

    Do NOT think of this as the mainstream measure for clearing difficult endgame content.  It's this expectation of this optional feature that i believe brings about problems.

  • KobaoKobao KausalaPosts: 26Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yaevindusk
    Originally posted by Kobao
    I see your point, and understand. This is just my taste in games, and am wondering whether the feature will be in FFXIV. Does the system create the groups automatically and summon them to the dungeon? It would be more ok (for me), if those two don't apply.

     

    It's a valid taste to have in games, please don't get me wrong.  There have been good points against it, but as a whole it fixes more things and helps more people than it offends.  For instance someone might argue that someone might be less inclined to be a jerk if they're on your same server.  Though nowadays I'd even question that, as I'm sure we all see quite a lot of open jerks on our servers no matter the game we play.  Some may also think it affects the world pride, but a game that has it also has to make sure they build a game from the ground up that will properly support it and perhaps have reason to have it.

     

    I'm not sure what entails the Duty Finder at the moment.  Though we're hoping it will help people play their favorite jobs without the discrimination that was found in 1.0 or in other games.  It will pool players from their own data centers for dungeon content and the like.  Might even be able to find people on your server to do world content with (we're not really sure at the moment).  Will also likely be used with PvP content if you don't have a group of people to enter it with.  The game will give / have it's own PvP skills separate from PvE ones, though.  So the two won't nerf or make each other more powerful presumably.

     

    Thanks. So the whole picture is not clear yet... I will wait and see, but it would drastically affect the likehood of me playing this game, if it's completely automated & summon thing.

  • SnarkRitterSnarkRitter TPHCMPosts: 316Member
    It's makes me giggle when people say "if you don't like it, don't use it" regarding the Dungeon finder tool. Because in practice, everybody use it so you're also forced to use it if you don't want to spam chat in vain for eternity(not to mention it gives people the impression that you're either a noob or a weirdo)
  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member


    Originally posted by jskeets916
    Originally posted by Kobao I just stumbled on this while searching info about the game. Is this feature actually coming? I was kind of interested to try the game now, but my interest was killed right after reading about this. Automatically searches suitable member from all servers... just, ARGH. Why nobody has the guts to do things differently than Blizzard? Blizzard's game design is like plague that keeps on spreading.   This feature was the final blow to my WoW career, and interest in MMORPG's in general. Haven't really played a MMORPG in 3.5 years.
    I understand your point but i agree with Yaevindusk's post in addressing it.

    The main thing I would like to add is this option is mostly for convenience/speed purposes, not quality.

    This isn't the WoW community where everything is instanced and your just thrown in with a random group for your typical dungeon.

    If you want to be successful in this game, your chances are much higher joining a guild or static as mentioned with players who have proven their skills.

    Think of this as a way to meet potential members of your friends list or branch out to different parts of the community without have to spam in /shout.

    Do NOT think of this as the mainstream measure for clearing difficult endgame content.  It's this expectation of this optional feature that i believe brings about problems.


    yea i totally would not want to be doing even some of the low level instances with randoms...yet alone higher level content.

    Also...have they said its cross server?

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,544Member Uncommon

     

    I'd imagine it would be a summon type of thing.  This is simply because there will be cases where people just don't show up and or just refuse to leave the party and hold things up more (which will prolong things again and require one to re-enter the queue or something and decimate the purpose of it being a tool to save time).  Though I thought they had it where you had to talk to a certain NPC or do a certain quest before you unlock some dungeons.  Might be remembering that in the wrong way or thinking about another game in general.

     

    What I do know is that they want to make it so that you can sign up for Duty Finder, then do something like fish, then go to the dungeon as the job you signed up for when you are grouped with your new team for the adventure.

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Amory, MSPosts: 2,544Member Uncommon
    You gotta love it when people play a multiplayer game and get pissy over a developers adding a feature that helps people play together.
  • KobaoKobao KausalaPosts: 26Member Uncommon

    The thing is I stopped playing a game after this feature was implemented and haven't played since. It really was a game breaking feature to me, no matter how insane that may seem. I did return to test it on WoW couple times, but I just felt empty. There was no social interaction, I never got to know anything about those people. People didn't even say "hi" anymore. We couldn't continue to level up thorough questing together, or something else. That's how I formed friends. I got to know a really nice dude from another country who we spent long time playing together with and talking about stuff. Only because I happened to compliment his healing skills, where it all started, and we could continue playing together and talking when ending the dungeon. This was rare happening, but with automated tools it becomes closer to impossible. The needs to be some necessary socializing to induce more socializing, I feel.

     

    I'm open to some sort of tools to help with dungeon search, the old style was archaic indeed, but making the whole process automatic kills the game for me. Most of my enjoyment in WoW was (mostly tanking) endless 5-man dungeons, forming the group for them was part of the fun. LFG spam, and messaging random people in the level range worked well, it really was not that cumbersome. The success chance of somebody accepting to join, by just me messaging them was like 30-50%, or something along the lines, can't remember. Helped to to ask them -nicely-. These are community enrichening activities. I could level up while forming the group, was no need to be devoted to the group all the time. 5 hours it didn't take in that game, at least, but your FFXI point may be accurate. What it took was bit of activity, bit of positivity to get that group formed and make people feel optimistic about the group. Lots of fun was had and we likely ran multiple dungeons. It was fun to play with same peeps on other occasion, and know their style a bit. If somebody rage quitted the group, it was not difficult to search for one more person with the power of of 4 people. But of course, sometimes happened so that everybody left, and you just had to give up. Which happened, though, much, much, much less than after the LFG tool was introduced. We could actually wipe many times without people saying a word, or laughing about it. I think those were in the in own way, part of the MMORPG experience. Definitely time wasting... but isn't that what MMORPG's are about?

     

    I don't have time like I used to, to waste on games, either, but that increases the importance of me spending the game time enjoyably, and that was the way I enjoyed playing MMORPG most. Leading challening, small group activities, socializing at the same time (and before and after it too). The challenge was taken away from me, the socializing was taken away from me and the importance of leading was taken away from me, so the game died in my eyes.

     

    This is of course about WoW, and I hate to bring it up, but that's my only good reference point. Other MMORPG's I've played are not comparable. FFXIV may handle this differently, I'm interested to see how differently.

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SnarkRitter
    It's makes me giggle when people say "if you don't like it, don't use it" regarding the Dungeon finder tool. Because in practice, everybody use it so you're also forced to use it if you don't want to spam chat in vain for eternity(not to mention it gives people the impression that you're either a noob or a weirdo)

     

    You also have to look at the context of the matter.  How things are phrased are easy to be torn down, but the core message should not be ignored.  For instance, just noting one person grouping with a guild, or making a static with friends, or perhaps even making just a date on a calender to do an instance with friends will make such a counter argument invalid.

     

    I for instance do not typically use these types of features.  When I play dungeons, it's always with a group of friends.  If we're missing someone, we grab a person one of us knows and we meet a new person.  We have a blast and have no need of the system as an option.  But when there is a time restraint, or I feel like I want to play content but no one is one, I may consider partaking in the option as it is available to me (I have actually used the GW2 group finder made by the community as no one seems to be doing dungeons anymore... which makes me think they should have an official one, as getting groups without the community finder is almost impossible now and contradicts a point made in the next paragraph).

     

    Again, it is a choice one makes.  I could actively wait for people I know to log in, or talk to people to form a new static altogether.  It will take just as much time as it would if there was no content finder when it comes to group dungeons and group content.  Now, if you're talking about features that require 25 or 40 people, then it might be tougher to get people to commit.  Though as a whole a lot of people who "Just want to see content" or just get "okay gear" would not be a part of a "hardcore" guild anyway.  Then there's the whole issue with the above paragraph regarding Guild Wars 2 when it comes to this and how there are little people to be found doing dungeons even without an official dungeon finder.  Though some may say it's because of difficulty and people are scared of the elitist attitude some dungeon delvers have... which is again without such an option.

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kobao

    The thing is I stopped playing a game after this feature was implemented and haven't played since. It really was a game breaking feature to me, no matter how insane that may seem. I did return to test it on WoW couple times, but I just felt empty. There was no social interaction, I never got to know anything about those people. People didn't even say "hi" anymore. We couldn't continue to level up thorough questing together, or something else. That's how I formed friends. I got to know a really nice dude from another country who we spent long time playing together with and talking about stuff. Only because I happened to compliment his healing skills, where it all started, and we could continue playing together and talking when ending the dungeon. This was rare happening, but with automated tools it becomes closer to impossible. The needs to be some necessary socializing to induce more socializing, I feel.

     

    I'm open to some sort of tools to help with dungeon search, the old style was archaic indeed, but making the whole process automatic kills the game for me. Most of my enjoyment in WoW was (mostly tanking) endless 5-man dungeons, forming the group for them was part of the fun. LFG spam, and messaging random people in the level range worked well, it really was not that cumbersome. The success chance of somebody accepting to join, by just me messaging them was like 30-50%, or something along the lines, can't remember. Helped to to ask them -nicely-. These are community enrichening activities. I could level up while forming the group, was no need to be devoted to the group all the time. 5 hours it didn't take in that game, at least, but your FFXI point may be accurate. What it took was bit of activity, bit of positivity to get that group formed and make people feel optimistic about the group. Lots of fun was had and we likely ran multiple dungeons. It was fun to play with same peeps on other occasion, and know their style a bit. If somebody rage quitted the group, it was not difficult to search for one more person with the power of of 4 people. But of course, sometimes happened so that everybody left, and you just had to give up. Which happened, though, much, much, much less than after the LFG tool was introduced. We could actually wipe many times without people saying a word, or laughing about it. I think those were in the in own way, part of the MMORPG experience. Definitely time wasting... but isn't that what MMORPG's are about?

     

    I don't have time like I used to, to waste on games, either, but that increases the importance of me spending the game time enjoyably, and that was the way I enjoyed playing MMORPG most. Leading challening, small group activities, socializing at the same time (and before and after it too). The challenge was taken away from me, the socializing was taken away from me and the importance of leading was taken away from me, so the game died in my eyes.

     

    This is of course about WoW, and I hate to bring it up, but that's my only good reference point. Other MMORPG's I've played are not comparable. FFXIV may handle this differently, I'm interested to see how differently.

     

    WoW has just recently implemented a feature to add someone's battletag and then play on their servers.  When I was playing I met a few people that way in the few times I used dungeon finder.  We had the tools to stay in touch and play together.  Though as a whole, I still met quite a lot of people just by building groups without the tool using the sources that were available to me.  When we were missing a regular, a friend of a friend would come along, and we all had a new friend.   They also are going to implement a way to play on other people's servers and partake of auction houses I think (haven't really paid much attention to the new features in 5.4).

     

    The nature of one thing does not negate the possibilities of others.  It may give that illusion simply because one is easier than the other.  But the other is still an option, and it may be just one's own personality has changed to not be willing to take the time to do it how it was, or how they presumed to enjoy it.  What may change is being discouraged in thinking others have it easier when you want to do it old school; that's just a personal mindset that can be overcome, it just takes work such as the work done prior to all of this LFG stuff when it took about five hours to get a group going for something.

     

    Just a few months ago I did the old school /search and whisper asking if people wanted to form a group for dungeons with others from the server.  There were quite a few people wanting to do this, in fact I managed to get several groups formed with different leaders because people liked the nostalgic feel of it.  So in that case, it was actually easier for me to do.

     

    :3

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • rykim86rykim86 winnipeg, MBPosts: 236Member
    Duty finder wasn't designed to be a social tool.  You want to experience that, find a good linkshell/free company.  Big groups like the Reddit are always looking people like you to join their ranks.
  • redcloud16redcloud16 Seattle, WAPosts: 222Member

    So the Duty Finder is meant, just like the first 15 levels of the game, to introduce you to party play. 

     

    Create a stress free environment for people who don't normally play MMOs, like to solo, don't have a lot of time siting around waiting or are new to the whole concept of partying. It is supposed to help players train themselves in how the dungeons work, how to party, how the dynamics of party play work. 

     

    However, much like the rest of the game, the difficulty of things will increase. Don't really expect to be able to do endgame through the Duty Finder, Yoshida has repeatedly said that the point of MMOs it to socialize and make friends. He wants you to make friends, get a Linkshell, find a Free Company on your way to endgame. The intention is do endgame with those friends. The Duty Finder is for levelling up and for convenience. 

     

    Obviously, actions speak louder than words, so we will have to see how everything plays out. But I say at least give it a chance before passing judgement. 

    image

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,466Member Uncommon

    I would say won't happen except within just your server...maybe.

    Funny thing is i mentioned this sort of idea to Square MANY years ago,i know long before Blizzard put it in.I mentioned it because FFXi is an all out grouping game,so i was thinking of ideas  to help the game.I mentioned that and mentoring idea i got from EQ2 and neither were implemented until much later.That alone told me that Square does not listen to logic or the players,they do what they want as do most if not all devs.

    IMO it is for lazy or shy people,everyone should seek out their own Linkshell/Free Company as you will not enjoy the entire game without it.Even still it is a good app ,so far i have done them solo,i don't even remember Duty saying anything about group,lol i actually thought that was a solo part of game.I know Fates are open ended and Leves were the only area i saw mention of grouping and being able to select difficulty level.Yes i am still very noob to game :P.


    Samoan Diamond

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,561Member Uncommon
    I dont see this any different from manually inviting random players by shouting in chat because either way your getting grouped up with random players and group finders are programmed to match people by the holy trinity and does it faster.
  • EhllfhireEhllfhire Sacramento, CAPosts: 597Member
    Outstanding news. Im quite pleased there will be a duty finder.

    Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
    PS3

  • VentlusVentlus spanaway, WAPosts: 96Member
    duty finder is gonna be ready for testing in the next phase of phase 3, cant wait to try :<
  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Kobao

    I just stumbled on this while searching info about the game. Is this feature actually coming? I was kind of interested to try the game now, but my interest was killed right after reading about this. Automatically searches suitable member from all servers... just, ARGH. Why nobody has the guts to do things differently than Blizzard? Blizzard's game design is like plague that keeps on spreading.

     

    This feature was the final blow to my WoW career, and interest in MMORPG's in general. Haven't really played a MMORPG in 3.5 years.

    Oh no! How will your game be social without people clogging up global chat with LFG messages?

    I don't know if WoW was your only MMO, but loot stealing anti-social players exist in every game with or without the LFG feature. All that a good LFG feature does is remove the spam from chat.

  • DzoneDzone bowling green, KYPosts: 351Member Uncommon

    This is going to be my first experiance with a duty finder, can't wait :). Only mmo's i've played which were ffxi, vanguard, eq2 in its early days, same with WoW, gw 2, Lotro. Out of all those only Lotro had a automatic group for skirmishes. I never used it though. So gona be interesting to see how this turns out. I'm so used to seeing LFG in chat.

  • taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member
    Originally posted by Kobao

    I just stumbled on this while searching info about the game. Is this feature actually coming? I was kind of interested to try the game now, but my interest was killed right after reading about this. Automatically searches suitable member from all servers... just, ARGH. Why nobody has the guts to do things differently than Blizzard? Blizzard's game design is like plague that keeps on spreading.

     

    This feature was the final blow to my WoW career, and interest in MMORPG's in general. Haven't really played a MMORPG in 3.5 years.

    Can you explain to me what exactly it is that makes the game unplayable for you if it has a duty finder? Just list a few reasons in no particular order.

    Thank you.

    Originally posted by Dzone

    This is going to be my first experiance with a duty finder, can't wait :). Only mmo's i've played which were ffxi, vanguard, eq2 in its early days, same with WoW, gw 2, Lotro. Out of all those only Lotro had a automatic group for skirmishes. I never used it though. So gona be interesting to see how this turns out. I'm so used to seeing LFG in chat.

     

    FFXI had a Duty finder: /sea all WHM level 30-50

     

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    It's the number one thing that kills a community in an mmo. People will now just sit in cities waiting for a dungeon to pop.
  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    It's the number one thing that kills a community in an mmo. People will now just sit in cities waiting for a dungeon to pop.

    As opposed to sitting in cities spamming 'LFG' and ruining any area chat. For a perfect example go log into TSW and check out Argatha. That's your super social community right there. Or even EQ2, level chat is just full of LFG because their dungeon finder is a joke.

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