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What do you think of GW2s end game?

24

Comments

  • makiimakii noPosts: 280Member
    Originally posted by flizzer
    What people like you call a problem, people like me call a blessing.  We don't like the constant gear treadmill, run this dungeon to get better stuff etc.  We can play the game for fun and choose to run a dungeon with friends if we like it or not.  We don't need a carrot to entice us.  You speak of being conditioned or acclimated to feel you need to constantly improve , get better gear etc.  There are plenty of games with this type of model.  People like me enjoy GW2 for the lack of this mechanic in game.  When ascended gear was actually added to the game there was such an uproar among the loyal fan base for fear this type of treadmill was entering GW2,  The developers claimed it was not and they were just putting in ascended to fill the gap between exotic and legendary.  We shall see.  But it sounds like GW2 is not your game then. 

     

    I think you dont understand the concept of a mmo.  Trademill is still important- but no trademill at all is a bad choice.

    GW2 worked because you buy the box and leave the game after 2 months. If GW2 was p2p  it would been one of the biggest failures last year. Most people wouldnt even make it past 1 month.  but since they got the money with is 6 months worth, they can be happy.

    I for myself lost any trust to Anet, for delivering such a huge failure and calling it GW2. They can pump as many mini contetn as they want- the magic of gw2 was lost 3 month after realese-it was just one big fluke.

     

    and yes carrots are important- they are like good grades- if school didnt have grades we would have not studied and the world would be disastrous- since when it comes to the logic of GW2- everything you do- is pointless- since it doesnt give you any advantage. Now if our world would work that way- the evolution would immidiatly stop.

  • emistzemistz Miami, FLPosts: 54Member
    Gear treadmills are not good for any game.  MMO's should focus on skill treadmills, but then people will start whining that it is too "hardcore" or not catering to the "casual crowd." 

    image

  • flizzerflizzer Manchester, NHPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by makii
    Originally posted by flizzer
    What people like you call a problem, people like me call a blessing.  We don't like the constant gear treadmill, run this dungeon to get better stuff etc.  We can play the game for fun and choose to run a dungeon with friends if we like it or not.  We don't need a carrot to entice us.  You speak of being conditioned or acclimated to feel you need to constantly improve , get better gear etc.  There are plenty of games with this type of model.  People like me enjoy GW2 for the lack of this mechanic in game.  When ascended gear was actually added to the game there was such an uproar among the loyal fan base for fear this type of treadmill was entering GW2,  The developers claimed it was not and they were just putting in ascended to fill the gap between exotic and legendary.  We shall see.  But it sounds like GW2 is not your game then. 

     

    I think you dont understand the concept of a mmo.  Trademill is still important- but no trademill at all is a bad choice.

    GW2 worked because you buy the box and leave the game after 2 months. If GW2 was p2p  it would been one of the biggest failures last year. Most people wouldnt even make it past 1 month.  but since they got the money with is 6 months worth, they can be happy.

    I for myself lost any trust to Anet, for delivering such a huge failure and calling it GW2. They can pump as many mini contetn as they want- the magic of gw2 was lost 3 month after realese-it was just one big fluke.

    We obviously have different likes in an MMO.  I consider GW2 a huge success and have played  it continuously since September.  For me GW2 is a good choice. 

  • VladamyreVladamyre South Shore, KYPosts: 225Member
    Originally posted by makii
    Originally posted by flizzer
    What people like you call a problem, people like me call a blessing.  We don't like the constant gear treadmill, run this dungeon to get better stuff etc.  We can play the game for fun and choose to run a dungeon with friends if we like it or not.  We don't need a carrot to entice us.  You speak of being conditioned or acclimated to feel you need to constantly improve , get better gear etc.  There are plenty of games with this type of model.  People like me enjoy GW2 for the lack of this mechanic in game.  When ascended gear was actually added to the game there was such an uproar among the loyal fan base for fear this type of treadmill was entering GW2,  The developers claimed it was not and they were just putting in ascended to fill the gap between exotic and legendary.  We shall see.  But it sounds like GW2 is not your game then. 

     

    I think you dont understand the concept of a mmo.  Trademill is still important- but no trademill at all is a bad choice.

    GW2 worked because you buy the box and leave the game after 2 months. If GW2 was p2p  it would been one of the biggest failures last year. Most people wouldnt even make it past 1 month.  but since they got the money with is 6 months worth, they can be happy.

    I for myself lost any trust to Anet, for delivering such a huge failure and calling it GW2. They can pump as many mini contetn as they want- the magic of gw2 was lost 3 month after realese-it was just one big fluke.

     

    and yes carrots are important- they are like good grades- if school didnt have grades we would have not studied and the world would be disastrous- since when it comes to the logic of GW2- everything you do- is pointless- since it doesnt give you any advantage. Now if our world would work that way- the evolution would immidiatly stop.

     Some form of a treadmill is a good idea to a point. Wow based gear treadmills are bad, very bad. Player upgrade treadmills like Dark Age of Camelot's realm ranks were great, and GW2 dropped the ball when they didnt go with that flow, but instead went with a Wow like gear treadmill called fractals. I gave my input on fractals, I told them to remove them before Christmas, or I would be getting a refund.

    In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by makii

    I think you dont understand the concept of a mmo.

    There's more to MMORPGs than just WOW clones with gear treadmills. The problem is people got lobotomized by WoW into thinking that's the only way to design such a game.

     

    Originally posted by Vladamyre

     Some form of a treadmill is a good idea to a point. Wow based gear treadmills are bad, very bad. Player upgrade treadmills like Dark Age of Camelot's realm ranks were great, and GW2 dropped the ball when they didnt go with that flow, but instead went with a Wow like gear treadmill called fractals. I gave my input on fractals, I told them to remove them before Christmas, or I would be getting a refund.

    GW2 has realm ranks now - and much better designed than the DAoC ones, this coming from someone who played both games. Maybe you should actually play the game before talking about it... ah yes, sorry, I almost forgot, you got a refund, and therefore you know nothing about the actual state of the game.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • VladamyreVladamyre South Shore, KYPosts: 225Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by makii

    I think you dont understand the concept of a mmo.

    There's more to MMORPGs than just WOW clones with gear treadmills. The problem is people got lobotomized by WoW into thinking that's the only way to design such a game.

     

    Originally posted by Vladamyre

     Some form of a treadmill is a good idea to a point. Wow based gear treadmills are bad, very bad. Player upgrade treadmills like Dark Age of Camelot's realm ranks were great, and GW2 dropped the ball when they didnt go with that flow, but instead went with a Wow like gear treadmill called fractals. I gave my input on fractals, I told them to remove them before Christmas, or I would be getting a refund.

    GW2 has realm ranks now - and much better designed than the DAoC ones, this coming from someone who played both games. Maybe you should actually play the game before talking about it... ah yes, sorry, I almost forgot, you got a refund, and therefore you know nothing about the actual state of the game.

     Glad they put in something to do at their so called endgame. Back when I played there was nothing to do once you maxed out a character. Put in their own concept of realm ranks doesn't change the fact that their pvp maps are garbage. The same 3 map design was nothing more then a cost saver and lack of developer talent. The game will still suck no matter how much realm ranks they put in because of the pvp maps.

    In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.

  • SephirosoSephiroso Marietta, GAPosts: 1,160Member Uncommon
    GW2 had end game?

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • DrWookieDrWookie Portland, ORPosts: 252Member

    The fact that there isn't a constant meaningless "power treadmill" is exactly why I still play this game right now. If it was like WoW or pretty much every other MMO I would have quit long ago.

    I don't want my end game to be designed around getting gear that is "best in class" for a month until they release new gear that is now "best in class". Making dungeons "Harder" by just increasing stats on enemies, and requiring higher stat items is not a challenge, it's just a time sink.

     

    As for myself. I play WvW. I haven't gotten bored yet. It's a new battle every week.

  • VladamyreVladamyre South Shore, KYPosts: 225Member
    Originally posted by Sephiroso
    GW2 had end game?

     Yes it did, and Ill explain every detail of it in a single paragraph, which will be typed below this line!

    In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.

  • VladamyreVladamyre South Shore, KYPosts: 225Member
    Originally posted by DrWookie

    The fact that there isn't a constant meaningless "power treadmill" is exactly why I still play this game right now. If it was like WoW or pretty much every other MMO I would have quit long ago.

    I don't want my end game to be designed around getting gear that is "best in class" for a month until they release new gear that is now "best in class". Making dungeons "Harder" by just increasing stats on enemies, and requiring higher stat items is not a challenge, it's just a time sink.

     

    As for myself. I play WvW. I haven't gotten bored yet. It's a new battle every week.

     Its the same battle each week. The exact same towers, keeps and other crap over and over with no change. At least in Dark Age of Camelot you had the choice to go to 3 different maps.

    In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.

  • SephirosoSephiroso Marietta, GAPosts: 1,160Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vladamyre
    Originally posted by DrWookie

    The fact that there isn't a constant meaningless "power treadmill" is exactly why I still play this game right now. If it was like WoW or pretty much every other MMO I would have quit long ago.

    I don't want my end game to be designed around getting gear that is "best in class" for a month until they release new gear that is now "best in class". Making dungeons "Harder" by just increasing stats on enemies, and requiring higher stat items is not a challenge, it's just a time sink.

     

    As for myself. I play WvW. I haven't gotten bored yet. It's a new battle every week.

     Its the same battle each week. The exact same towers, keeps and other crap over and over with no change. At least in Dark Age of Camelot you had the choice to go to 3 different maps.

    that didnt explain what end game gw2 had. he just went on to say he doesn't like geartreadmill and that he only played gw2 for wvw which is all its good for. pvp is not end game.

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • VladamyreVladamyre South Shore, KYPosts: 225Member
    Originally posted by Sephiroso
    Originally posted by Vladamyre
    Originally posted by DrWookie

    The fact that there isn't a constant meaningless "power treadmill" is exactly why I still play this game right now. If it was like WoW or pretty much every other MMO I would have quit long ago.

    I don't want my end game to be designed around getting gear that is "best in class" for a month until they release new gear that is now "best in class". Making dungeons "Harder" by just increasing stats on enemies, and requiring higher stat items is not a challenge, it's just a time sink.

     

    As for myself. I play WvW. I haven't gotten bored yet. It's a new battle every week.

     Its the same battle each week. The exact same towers, keeps and other crap over and over with no change. At least in Dark Age of Camelot you had the choice to go to 3 different maps.

    that didnt explain what end game gw2 had. he just went on to say he doesn't like geartreadmill and that he only played gw2 for wvw which is all its good for. pvp is not end game.

    Run the same dungeons over and over and over. Level more characters to run the same dungeons over and over and over. Run WvWvW on the same 3 boring maps for absolutely nothing. Thats all there is to GW2 so called endgame. To sum it up, the game is a borefest, nothing to do because once you hit lvl 80 and get a full set of exotics you have completed the game.

    In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Guild wars 2 has more options at end game than most mmo's.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by makii

    I think you dont understand the concept of a mmo.

    There's more to MMORPGs than just WOW clones with gear treadmills. The problem is people got lobotomized by WoW into thinking that's the only way to design such a game.

     

    Originally posted by Vladamyre

     Some form of a treadmill is a good idea to a point. Wow based gear treadmills are bad, very bad. Player upgrade treadmills like Dark Age of Camelot's realm ranks were great, and GW2 dropped the ball when they didnt go with that flow, but instead went with a Wow like gear treadmill called fractals. I gave my input on fractals, I told them to remove them before Christmas, or I would be getting a refund.

    GW2 has realm ranks now - and much better designed than the DAoC ones, this coming from someone who played both games. Maybe you should actually play the game before talking about it... ah yes, sorry, I almost forgot, you got a refund, and therefore you know nothing about the actual state of the game.

    Oooor lobotomized by NCsoft and told by taking it away you creat another form of endgame image

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Originally posted by Vladamyre
    Originally posted by Sephiroso
    Originally posted by Vladamyre
    Originally posted by DrWookie

    The fact that there isn't a constant meaningless "power treadmill" is exactly why I still play this game right now. If it was like WoW or pretty much every other MMO I would have quit long ago.

    I don't want my end game to be designed around getting gear that is "best in class" for a month until they release new gear that is now "best in class". Making dungeons "Harder" by just increasing stats on enemies, and requiring higher stat items is not a challenge, it's just a time sink.

     

    As for myself. I play WvW. I haven't gotten bored yet. It's a new battle every week.

     Its the same battle each week. The exact same towers, keeps and other crap over and over with no change. At least in Dark Age of Camelot you had the choice to go to 3 different maps.

    that didnt explain what end game gw2 had. he just went on to say he doesn't like geartreadmill and that he only played gw2 for wvw which is all its good for. pvp is not end game.

    Run the same dungeons over and over and over. Level more characters to run the same dungeons over and over and over. Run WvWvW on the same 3 boring maps for absolutely nothing. Thats all there is to GW2 so called endgame. To sum it up, the game is a borefest, nothing to do because once you hit lvl 80 and get a full set of exotics you have completed the game.

    What is there do to in any other game other than dungeons and instanced pvp? you're talking like there is a game out there with superior end game, well there isn't.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by makii

    I think you dont understand the concept of a mmo.

    There's more to MMORPGs than just WOW clones with gear treadmills. The problem is people got lobotomized by WoW into thinking that's the only way to design such a game.

     

    Originally posted by Vladamyre

     Some form of a treadmill is a good idea to a point. Wow based gear treadmills are bad, very bad. Player upgrade treadmills like Dark Age of Camelot's realm ranks were great, and GW2 dropped the ball when they didnt go with that flow, but instead went with a Wow like gear treadmill called fractals. I gave my input on fractals, I told them to remove them before Christmas, or I would be getting a refund.

    GW2 has realm ranks now - and much better designed than the DAoC ones, this coming from someone who played both games. Maybe you should actually play the game before talking about it... ah yes, sorry, I almost forgot, you got a refund, and therefore you know nothing about the actual state of the game.

    Oooor lobotomized by NCsoft and told by taking it away you creat another form of endgame image

    Have you ever played a game that is not a WoW clone? UO, AC1, EvE? A game without an "end game" focused on a gear grind?

    But I guess I'm wasting my time - you're obviously going to answer "yes" even if you don't have a clue about what I'm talking about. I'm holding my breath and hoping to be surprised.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • VladamyreVladamyre South Shore, KYPosts: 225Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by makii

    I think you dont understand the concept of a mmo.

    There's more to MMORPGs than just WOW clones with gear treadmills. The problem is people got lobotomized by WoW into thinking that's the only way to design such a game.

     

    Originally posted by Vladamyre

     Some form of a treadmill is a good idea to a point. Wow based gear treadmills are bad, very bad. Player upgrade treadmills like Dark Age of Camelot's realm ranks were great, and GW2 dropped the ball when they didnt go with that flow, but instead went with a Wow like gear treadmill called fractals. I gave my input on fractals, I told them to remove them before Christmas, or I would be getting a refund.

    GW2 has realm ranks now - and much better designed than the DAoC ones, this coming from someone who played both games. Maybe you should actually play the game before talking about it... ah yes, sorry, I almost forgot, you got a refund, and therefore you know nothing about the actual state of the game.

    Oooor lobotomized by NCsoft and told by taking it away you creat another form of endgame image

    Have you ever played a game that is not a WoW clone? UO, AC1, EvE? A game without an "end game" focused on a gear grind?

    But I guess I'm wasting my time - you're obviously going to answer "yes" even if you don't have a clue about what I'm talking about. I'm holding my breath and hoping to be surprised.

     Dark Age of Camelot. Its the only game that I've played for over 2 years straight, without taking a break or going to another game to try something new.

    In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon
    FOR ME...I thought GW2's endgame would be  the WvW. I found the WvW to be abysmal.
  • MaelzraelMaelzrael Las Cruces, NMPosts: 354Member Uncommon

    I absolutely love Guild Wars 2 as a whole.. its in the top 3 best games I've ever played for sure..

     

    With that said, the endgame in gw2 is so ungodly boring that I can hardly bring my self to log in anymore after about 1000 hours played. Each new content patch that adds some achievements, some story, and some vanity items.. does not cut it for content that makes you WANT to log in an play. Until they add a real endgame progression and change the loot system to make people actually WANT to kill bosses in dungeons.. I can't say I'll be doing much more then Tournaments (love the pvp in gw2) and WvW.

    The Token System in the dungeons would have worked fine if the bosses also had a chance to drop set pieces from the set that you get from tokens. The only loot off bosses system kind of sucks because you have to kill the same boss 800 times to get those damn boots (hello WoW) and the Token system sucks because you have to run the dungeon 18 times to get 3 pieces of the set. Combining the two systems however would have made the dungeons in Gw2 a lot more fun.. and it would have kept players from COF P1 Spamming all the time.

    They need to add 10-20 man instanced raid content with a combination of both systems if they want to get players to stick around. Players who say they don't want a gear grind in Gw2 because they have that in ever other game.. don't even stop to think about the fact that if you want a good visual set in Gw2 you have to grind the same dungeon about 40 times to get the whole set. I'd call that a boring ass gear grind if I've ever seen one.

    But I digress.. This shall fall upon deaf ears anyways..

    Also they made it sound like Housing in gw2 was gonna be badass pre-launch.. then it turned out to be a horrible joke.. (off topic I guess but look at Wildstar for an example of what good endgame housing systems can be like.).

     

    image
  • zastenzasten nowherePosts: 283Member

    For me, end game is end of game!

    I now have 8 level 80 chars, which I find none are able to handle the high level pve maps solo. ALL pve content is either too easy or too hard, while it is managable if you manage to find some other player that needs to do the same pve content, I have found that this is usually not possible!

    As for dungeons or any form of pvp forget it. I am not interested in doing pvp when there is usually an unbalanced match of many on one (me), and doing a dungeon run amounts more to luck than skill as to wether they kill you with one hit while you pick away doing stuff all damage!

    So, I have basically lost interest in playing! I want to play because I think the game is fantastic, but am at a loss as to why I want to continue playing!


     

  • 1vald21vald2 StuttgartPosts: 75Member

    Even if I don't play GW2 anymore, the "endgame" for me is actually having a bond and/or community within the game. If you can't immerse yourself in GW2 or you don't have a good community, then only gear treadmills will be able to keep some people playing. 

    For me personally, GW2's lack of progression post level 40 was something I didn't like. In addition to the badly written personal story... I was really disappointed with the 3 factions too. So much potential to create different battlegrounds or rivalries between players but instead they're wasting time with adding temporary content.

    image

  • emistzemistz Miami, FLPosts: 54Member
    Here's a better question...what would you guys consider to be a decent alternative to the current state of affairs as far as endgame content is concerned?

    image

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAPosts: 1,342Member Uncommon
     well there was no end game for me .. as lvl 30 felt the same  40, 50 -80 .. terribly boring, reptitive, and skills and classes that are unimaginative and lackluster .. imo
  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Felt exactly like gw1 endgame. As in there isn't any. And that's perfectly fine.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Piechunks

     

    This issue has sort of been churning in my mind ever since I hit 80 and found out what incredibly marginal benefit ascended/legendaries had over cheap exotic.

    Of course there's always WvW, SPvP, achievements and aesthetic stuff, but what about the jump of power so much of us have gotten acclimated/addicted to over the years?

    If you're still chasing that constant jump of power, GW2 was never the game for you in the first place. The thing is, that "jump of power so much of us have gotten acclimated/addicted to over the years" is not sustainable. Anet realizes this, and it's one of the reasons they tried to make a different game. The problem being so many of you still insist on playing the game like another gear treadmill. As the saying goes, old habits die hard I suppose.

    The irony here is that so many players demand games that are new, different, unique, etc. And yet so many of the same people insist on playing / supporting games that are nearly identical to ones they've already played.

    I find myself in the vicious cycle of leveling to 80, quitting, leveling something else to 80 and quitting again, since the progression for me comes to a screeching halt when I can buy something nearly as powerful as the best straight from the auction house.

     I've done this for a while myself, and in many ways it is a byproduct of the mentallity you mentioned above. The exploration, and pvp of this game are some of it's best qualities. However if you're main focus is on obtaining better loot, you tend to overlook both of those things in favor of the end result.

    This definitely wasn't so much an issue when the game first launched, the slates were clean and you had relatively higher expenditures as a percentage of wealth for exotics etc., but now we're in saturated markets with people who literally have CoF, HotW and fractals down to some sort of art.

    TLDR: What do you think of GW2s end game? Do you like the steep drop of marginal power increases, that is, do you mind readily obtainable gear being very close to the best in efficacy, or would you like to see something more traditional and perhaps akin to the very leveling system in this game?

    I think GW2's end game is fine the way it is. I do think the game needs some changes, but that's an entirely different discussion. I think GW2 works fine as a game that doesn't rely on gear grind, or the holy trinity.

    That said: People really need to stop playing this game like a WoW clone. It's been explained to death, twice over, why this game is different. It's been explained how much of a difference things like exploring, setting your own goals, and properly strategizing make in this game.

    The game does suffer atm from a lack of pull, a lack of a 'hook' for many players. There's no doubt about that. But making that hook another gear treadmill is the easy solution, the temporary solution. How many times do we need to watch games suffer the same exact fate, before we realize that those mechanics have fundamental problems at their core. Every new gear treadmill lasts shorter than the one before it, holds people for less time, and is less satisfying. There's a reason for that.

    GW2's issue is that they haven't really been evolving the world much since launch. Much of their time has been spent on tweaks, and the living story updates which feel lackluster to most people. They're a bit behind on putting out an expansion, but I think once that hits the game will get a sizable influx of fresh players again, and have more stuff to do.

    The Guild Wars IP has always been about customization and strategy over power. It still is. If you embrace it, there's a lot to love about such a design. If you prefer to have the game make your character awesome for you, then you'll hate it.

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