Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Everquest Next is not going to have core loot gameplay of EQ1, EQ2 and other themeparks.

135

Comments

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Iadien
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Smed talks a lot of shit. 

    He talks nothing but. He said EQNext would have permadeath too. He's in China atm I believe, he just says random stuff to rile up the community.

    That was clearly a joke, and then it was cleared up later for those of you that actually thought he was being serious.

    Clearly? He doesn't make it clear at all when he is joking and when not.

    And it was Dave Georgeson who cleared it up, and only after that did Smedley correct it.

    He's a troll, pure and simple.

    This^^

    Smeds a troll for his own game plain and simple and anyone who believe everything out of his mouth is  well a moron.

    It doesn't matter what the game is or isn't he's gonna say what he thinks people want to hear, what he thinks will SELL the game. He's out to build hype and sell the game, honesty has nothing to do with it. People want to hear EQN is a sandbox so he's gonna say its a sandbox, people want to hear its different, so he's gonna say its different. people are scared its gonna be too different, so he's gonna say its familiar.

       Yeah he'll test the water once in awhile or go overboard and say "we like permadeath for EQN!"  Oh wait that didn't go over too well we were just joking that time hahahahah great joke right hahhaha. You get it right? Haha, We were uh.. just pulling your leg that time Hahaha. Its that just the funniest joke you heard today? hahah (seriously do game designers have that poor a sense of humor that that passes as a joke?) 

  • kellian1kellian1 Phillipsburg, NJPosts: 233Member Uncommon

    Unless they try something never done before (as far as I know) as in, make the items people use 100% player made and the loot you get off mobs simply crafting materials or something of that nature..I have no idea how they are going to pull off what he is talking about (which would be VERY interesting if done well).

    Then again (as I have said before), look at the source and please, for your own sanity, take a wait and see approach.

  • fyerwallfyerwall Posts: 3,155Member Uncommon
    I am taking a lot of what Smed says with a grain of salt. Not because I think he's lying (he may or may not be) but because I think he is having fun trying to make Daves life miserable by trying to see how much info he validate to players without breaking the secret.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


    image

  • SomeOldBlokeSomeOldBloke Lancaster, UKPosts: 2,141Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Next thing they'll say is that they're taking out leveling...

    I hope they do.

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AIMonster
    Ugh, that's all I have to say.  Not sure how you are going to keep PvE players interested for an extended period of time without things like loot progression and raiding.  This was an issue in GW2 for quite a few people and even that could probably be considered a "core loot" game.  I hope they don't take that EVE example to heart, as EVE is a very niche game that mostly appeals to PvPers.

    It is easy, make the game interesting and fun.

    I played SWG and while I did partake in some PvP here and there I spent the majority of my time exploring and running some missions as well as hanging out in the cantina.

    It is really narrow-minded to assume that PvE players only want raids and loot.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • SlampigSlampig Chantilly, VAPosts: 2,376Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Iadien
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Smed talks a lot of shit. 

    He talks nothing but. He said EQNext would have permadeath too. He's in China atm I believe, he just says random stuff to rile up the community.

    That was clearly a joke, and then it was cleared up later for those of you that actually thought he was being serious.

    Clearly? He doesn't make it clear at all when he is joking and when not.

    And it was Dave Georgeson who cleared it up, and only after that did Smedley correct it.

    He's a troll, pure and simple.

    This^^

    Smeds a troll for his own game plain and simple and anyone who believe everything out of his mouth is  well a moron.

    It doesn't matter what the game is or isn't he's gonna say what he thinks people want to hear, what he thinks will SELL the game. He's out to build hype and sell the game, honesty has nothing to do with it. People want to hear EQN is a sandbox so he's gonna say its a sandbox, people want to hear its different, so he's gonna say its different. people are scared its gonna be too different, so he's gonna say its familiar.

       Yeah he'll test the water once in awhile or go overboard and say "we like permadeath for EQN!"  Oh wait that didn't go over too well we were just joking that time hahahahah great joke right hahhaha. You get it right? Haha, We were uh.. just pulling your leg that time Hahaha. Its that just the funniest joke you heard today? hahah (seriously do game designers have that poor a sense of humor that that passes as a joke?) 

    For some reason I don't remember the community being as dramatic as you are making this out to be. In fact I seem to recall a lot of people being kind of bummed, not to the point of crying in their beers but a little let down.

    It is obvious you carry a pitchfork for this guy but going around and just saying, "Hey, he does this and he says that." while not having all the facts in your bag is kind of lame...

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • zethcarnzethcarn Kentucky, KYPosts: 1,558Member
    Originally posted by Iadien
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Iadien
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Smed talks a lot of shit. 

    He talks nothing but. He said EQNext would have permadeath too. He's in China atm I believe, he just says random stuff to rile up the community.

    That was clearly a joke, and then it was cleared up later for those of you that actually thought he was being serious.

    Clearly? He doesn't make it clear at all when he is joking and when not.

    And it was Dave Georgeson who cleared it up, and only after that did Smedley correct it.

    He's a troll, pure and simple.

    Yes, it clearly was a joke. Perma death on all servers? come on. lol

    Please tell me you didn't think it was a possibility. :( that makes me sad, if so.

    It would actually be interesting to have a permadeath server with accelerated leveling (x10) and be able to acquire loot a bit faster :)

  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member
    Originally posted by kellian1

    Unless they try something never done before (as far as I know) as in, make the items people use 100% player made and the loot you get off mobs simply crafting materials or something of that nature..I have no idea how they are going to pull off what he is talking about (which would be VERY interesting if done well).

    Then again (as I have said before), look at the source and please, for your own sanity, take a wait and see approach.

    UO, SWG, EVe, these games have (or had, in the case of SWG) player driven economies. Where the main gear that players used was obtained mainly from player crafters. Where over-time the gear could degrade/break (or be lost in pvp).

     

    It was very different compared to most other mmo's (like EQ, WoW, GW2, etc) where the gear is obtained through PVE drops. It also depends heavily on having a good economy, items have to leave the world (IE through loss or degrading) so people will need to eventually buy new ones. Also the Auction houses generally go against this, which is why UO had no auction house and SWG only had a limited AH (Where you could only sell cheap items/resources, the main items like Armour/weapons you had to physically go to a player shop to buy).

    The reason is that having a global AH reduces the sense of local crafter competition and economies.

  • kellian1kellian1 Phillipsburg, NJPosts: 233Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Stiler
    Originally posted by kellian1

    Unless they try something never done before (as far as I know) as in, make the items people use 100% player made and the loot you get off mobs simply crafting materials or something of that nature..I have no idea how they are going to pull off what he is talking about (which would be VERY interesting if done well).

    Then again (as I have said before), look at the source and please, for your own sanity, take a wait and see approach.

    UO, SWG, EVe, these games have (or had, in the case of SWG) player driven economies. Where the main gear that players used was obtained mainly from player crafters. Where over-time the gear could degrade/break (or be lost in pvp).

     

    It was very different compared to most other mmo's (like EQ, WoW, GW2, etc) where the gear is obtained through PVE drops. It also depends heavily on having a good economy, items have to leave the world (IE through loss or degrading) so people will need to eventually buy new ones. Also the Auction houses generally go against this, which is why UO had no auction house and SWG only had a limited AH (Where you could only sell cheap items/resources, the main items like Armour/weapons you had to physically go to a player shop to buy).

    The reason is that having a global AH reduces the sense of local crafter competition and economies.

    No, I'm talking about 100% player made items...even the junk items you start with. Sure in the games you mentioned players could get the better items through crafters, but i'm talking about a system in which every item, even the starter/bad ones, are player made and need to be repaired and fixed by players. (IE no loot drops at all from the mobs except crafting items)

    AH could also be localized by big city area (radius around the city) or even by race.....if that is what he is talking about it has possibilities...though I know better than to get my hopes up with this man.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Yamota What is worrying for me, still, is that I still havent seen any concrete sandbox features. "...bring life to the world". Well that could mean anything and I am sure that there are ThemePark games who have made that claim. What they need to do is to give us concrete features and aspects of the game. What seems to be clear, by this statement, that it is not going to be a skillbased game. So a level based sandbox? No, that wont work. Possibly a hybrid like Asheron's Call 1 but you cannot have an open ended sandbox type MMO with the restrictions that a level based MMO puts on a game.
     What he wants is people to not pay attention to the man behind the curtain. 

    Yes, he needs be start talking concrete specifics and not some pie in the sky mumbo jumbo.




    Here, here!

    If you filter out all the stuff that isn't an actual concrete game play mechanic, you're left with pretty much nothing, right? I've heard both that there won't be the core loot game play and that there's going to be something for the people who like core loot game play. Wtf.

    I think the people saying Smedley is trolling his own game are right. It is certainly driving interest, but it's not very informative.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Why wait until August, we have all the specifics right here already!

    Since we're taking every word and emoticon as signs of what EQN will be let's go all the way back to the announcement that it was being retooled at last years Live: "sandbox-style"... as not being a full sandbox. The quote in the OP mentions four steps that are typical of MMOs. Does that mean that all of them won't be in EQN? You mean we won't kill stuff?

    Lastly none of what is in the OP says anything about PvP. Sandbox PvE? Awesome! Maybe some actual freedom in what activities are there. PvP sandbox? Great! Being a sandbox makes no more difference than a themepark when referring to PvE/PvP.

    It's hard to say people are deluting themselves when they think EQN is one way and then tuen say it's definitely another. Not enough info is known yet.
  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon

    i haven't read this entire thread but didn't smed say there would be raiding in EQN?

  • Trudge34Trudge34 Stevens Point, WIPosts: 392Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by baphamet

    i haven't read this entire thread but didn't smed say there would be raiding in EQN?

    Yep.

    "You make your expansion, the real hardcore players consume it in a month, and they're doing the raids over and over and over until the next round of live content that we put in. Typically, three or four times a year, we as MMO companies put new endgame in there to keep the raiders happy.

    We absolutely need to build that style of content into every game we make because players want that. We're not talking about the end of raids, the end of this incredibly high-level content. We're talking about changing the nature of the world around it so that there's a lot more to do "in between" expansions."

    Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
    Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
    Currently Playing: GW2

    Nytlok Sylas
    80 Sylvari Ranger

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,121Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lateris
    I am glad to hear this. Not every game has to be loot based. I would rather play in game where player crafted items are valuable in a player driven economy far from what we see now in a lot of mmo games.  We are talking about a sand box game for EQ Next. 

    It's been tried with Horizons, A Tale in the Desert, Entropia and Ryzom and has yet to prove viable in the gaming market.  They even tried to some extent to have a crafting only, player driven only market in Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online and Dark Age of Camelot and it played a large role in their transformations into a hybrid crafting / loot based economy as yet again, gamers did not like that kind of reward paradigm.

    image
  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by Yamota

    What is worrying for me, still, is that I still havent seen any concrete sandbox features. "...bring life to the world". Well that could mean anything and I am sure that there are ThemePark games who have made that claim.

    What they need to do is to give us concrete features and aspects of the game. What seems to be clear, by this statement, that it is not going to be a skillbased game. So a level based sandbox? No, that wont work. Possibly a hybrid like Asheron's Call 1 but you cannot have an open ended sandbox type MMO with the restrictions that a level based MMO puts on a game.

    Why are you expecting to be told the features of a blackboxed game before it's reveal date? I dont get what some of you dont understand on why we arent getting info..

     

    Two sites so far have said it was above and beyond their best game of E3. That's good to hear. They sound blown away. August 2nd isnt that long, but there is nothing wrong with speculating as it passes time by

     

    They've echoed again and again this isnt going to be like EQ1 and EQ2. I assume their first version of Everquest Next was "Everquest 3" and they realized it would fail, good on them. I am super excited for the reveal.

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by ice-vortex

    Don't delude yourselves, Everquest Next is going to be a sandbox, not a themepark. What the vast majority of PVE players want and keep talking about on this forum is not going to be in this game. This game is not going to be Everquest 1 Next or Everquest 2 Next, but a radically different game as Smedley has made quite clear.

     So in other words they are going to hope to be able to undo what they did with EQ 1...because it was EQ 1 that turned MMOs in to themepark loot fest garbage as well as grind based with massive camp spawn times.

    EQ1s effect on the genre really makes me wish Microsoft had put some actual advertising muscle behind AC1 so EQ1 hadn't of dominated like it did...the genre wouldn't have all gone down the EQ route and would instead have been more diversified with AC1s sandbox influence.

    Yep, Smedley basically agrees with your sentiment.

    “We didn’t want more ‘kill 10 rats’ quests. We didn’t want more of the same. If you look at the MMOs out there, they’re delivering the same content over and over again. So are we. We need to change that. When we released EverQuest, we changed the world. We want to do that again with a different type of game.”

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/10/20/sony-online-entertainment-everquest-next-sandbox-mmo/

     

    “If we’re being honest with ourselves as an industry, all the games are the same, including ours, the combat’s the same though there are a few games that are outliers, like our own DCUO, but it’s basically kill something, get a reward, put it on your body or in your house, rinse and repeat. Kill a bigger thing, get bigger armor.

    Actually we threw away two designs, not one, I didn’t mention that in the keynote, the way we did that, we realized the first two [versions of EQ Next] were just the same. I see games like Rift come out and I’m like “Yeah, that’s an evolution, they did a great job with that game, but it’s not enough. Do I want to play this game 10 years from now?” And my honest answer to that is “No I don’t.”

    http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=30916&storypage=2

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Smed also said that raids aren't going anywhere. He's said more than once that you can't continue to just put out dev generated content but that you need BOTH to be successful.
  • Trudge34Trudge34 Stevens Point, WIPosts: 392Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Smed also said that raids aren't going anywhere. He's said more than once that you can't continue to just put out dev generated content but that you need BOTH to be successful.

    Yup. That's where all of his comments about needing the world to be important and interactive and not just a backdrop come into play. Those that think there won't be item progression will be surprised.

    Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
    Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
    Currently Playing: GW2

    Nytlok Sylas
    80 Sylvari Ranger

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    Smed also said that raids aren't going anywhere. He's said more than once that you can't continue to just put out dev generated content but that you need BOTH to be successful.

    However, he also described how raids aren't going to be in the same paragraph:

    "What we want is a dynamic world that gives all those other possibilities and doesn't just say OK, go to raid X with group composition of X, Y, Z, and kill the dragon for the 52nd time to get the tier 800 gear. It's this rinse-and-repeat gameplay that's got to change, and so we're changing it."

    So while 'raids' will be in it, it won't be the raiding content EQ1 and EQ2 players expect.

    There are three quotes within his interviews talking about getting rid of the loot progression system found in themeparks.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by Aelious Smed also said that raids aren't going anywhere. He's said more than once that you can't continue to just put out dev generated content but that you need BOTH to be successful.
    However, he also described how raids aren't going to be in the same paragraph:"What we want is a dynamic world that gives all those other possibilities and doesn't just say OK, go to raid X with group composition of X, Y, Z, and kill the dragon for the 52nd time to get the tier 800 gear. It's this rinse-and-repeat gameplay that's got to change, and so we're changing it."

    So while 'raids' will be in it, it won't be the raiding content EQ1 and EQ2 players expect.

    There are three quotes within his interviews talking about getting rid of the loot progression system found in themeparks.




    He's not saying anything specific at all. There are interviews where he says that theme park style things have to be included, and interviews where he says theme park style things can't be included. It's all gibberish.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by ice-vortex

    Originally posted by Aelious Smed also said that raids aren't going anywhere. He's said more than once that you can't continue to just put out dev generated content but that you need BOTH to be successful.
    However, he also described how raids aren't going to be in the same paragraph:"What we want is a dynamic world that gives all those other possibilities and doesn't just say OK, go to raid X with group composition of X, Y, Z, and kill the dragon for the 52nd time to get the tier 800 gear. It's this rinse-and-repeat gameplay that's got to change, and so we're changing it."

     

    So while 'raids' will be in it, it won't be the raiding content EQ1 and EQ2 players expect.

    There are three quotes within his interviews talking about getting rid of the loot progression system found in themeparks.



    He's not saying anything specific at all. There are interviews where he says that theme park style things have to be included, and interviews where he says theme park style things can't be included. It's all gibberish.

     

    Feel free to show us these contradictory statements.

  • DeolusDeolus DoncasterPosts: 392Member
    Im expecting eqnext to be something like minecraft on acid. There will be no pre-made items, everything will be player made from resources and mob drops.
  • BidwoodBidwood Toronto, ONPosts: 554Member
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by ice-vortex

    Originally posted by Aelious Smed also said that raids aren't going anywhere. He's said more than once that you can't continue to just put out dev generated content but that you need BOTH to be successful.
    However, he also described how raids aren't going to be in the same paragraph:"What we want is a dynamic world that gives all those other possibilities and doesn't just say OK, go to raid X with group composition of X, Y, Z, and kill the dragon for the 52nd time to get the tier 800 gear. It's this rinse-and-repeat gameplay that's got to change, and so we're changing it."

     

    So while 'raids' will be in it, it won't be the raiding content EQ1 and EQ2 players expect.

    There are three quotes within his interviews talking about getting rid of the loot progression system found in themeparks.



    He's not saying anything specific at all. There are interviews where he says that theme park style things have to be included, and interviews where he says theme park style things can't be included. It's all gibberish.

     

    Feel free to show us these contradictory statements.

    They can't. They just hate Smedley because he's changing things.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    LOL

    People are taking what they want to see from very little information. If it keeps them entertained then more power to them.
  • BidwoodBidwood Toronto, ONPosts: 554Member
    ice-vortex is 100 per cent correct. All the info we have to go by is what Smedley said, and he said the loot grind gameplay is going out the window.
Sign In or Register to comment.