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What does WoW do better then its competition?

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  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by trinix
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by Tutu2
    8 years running and it still overshadows it competition significantly. Other MMOs improve certain aspects of the "WoW clone" yet what is it that makes WoW so enduring and keeps people coming back? 

    In general they did (and do) everything better than competition. Period. Only thing that they ruined completely at least for me were 5man's with Cata. At that time stopped, just leveled my full set of alts then waiting new expansion. Best for endgame now for me is Swtor. And for this two i'm willing to drop all the rest if I had to. :-))

    We can argue about sales figures, number of subs and everything like that, but better is not equal to anything wow has accomplished for the whole player base.

    A lot of oldschool gamers hate WoW. Some of them played MMO's for the social aspect and that has been ruined with cross server everything. Some looked at it as a world rather than a game, they have nothing to look forward to in WoW. WoW destroys it's own lore to balance things out or just so people get what they want.

    I'm not arguing WoW is succesful, they are one of the most succesful and well almost only p2p game left in the market. But fun, better, stuff like that, it's all up to everyone to decide what they want to play and why. Games shouldn't try to be for everyone. Look at Eve, always going strong, p2p and while not succesful as WoW, the niche market they wanted, they hold strong.

    Well. usually ALL comes down to money, no matter what. So is obvious EVERY game want to please to more then few 100 players.

    I'm 51 and played alot ... can consider myself as oldschool gamer (starting even before Prince of persia 2D :-). I love wow and i do not miss at all any of his predecessors. Like I will never miss WASD replaced by most natural and effective way of mouse for moving avatars. And I will never miss my old cars without ABS, clima, ... etc. :-) That was ONCE. Today is another day.

    About always present and durable "argument" complain about "socialising". Socialising - IMO - does not belong behind keyboard and monitor. Who think so should be born like me in era without computers, console and barely with tv. Kids were at that time REALLY socializing.

  • caremuchlesscaremuchless Crestline, CAPosts: 603Member
    Originally posted by Drakynn
    Originally posted by steamtank

    Vanilla WoW was liquid sex

    it ran great on lots of machines

    it LOOKED like warcraft (sure it should have been 3 factions)

    you had things to achieve... players to look up to, rivalries on your server. People knew who you were

    classes actually played differently from one another... balance was more a PvE thing

    PvP was for the lulz,  and pride... 14 hour AV matches

    You had to maintain status in PvP (once that was added)

    Epic loot mattered

     

     

     

    listening to the casual consumers turned it into a golden turd that is slowly flushing itself down the toilet

    screw AV and any other battleground marathon South Shore V Tarren Mill sessions on PvP servers was the height of WoW PvP battlegrounds and then Arenas killed any real MMO PvP  in WoW.

    Screw vanilla fans in general. You guys talk about how Vanilla was better. It wasn't. I was there, I didn't jump ship in the first 6 months.

     

    It's really old and tired. I hear it often enough. You "Vanilla Only WoW People" are as bad as the "I refused to play wow" crowd. You are not cool cause you only played Vanilla WoW.  WoW  for the most part continued to get better after vanilla, not worse.

     

    The open world pvp you nostalgia all over, was no where close to RvR of DAOC or even the Battlegrounds of DAOC.

    Alterac valley was a blast,  it should of  been 4 x bigger.

    image

  • djazzydjazzy louisville, COPosts: 3,578Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    It was featured in South Park

    Hehe

    actually that touches on a great point, WoW is a cultural phenomenon. It doesn't need to be better than its competition, they need to be better than it and then some. Even then the way that WoW sustains itself with the community is just way too much for anyone to overcome.

    As for certain features, the biggest advantage that WoW has is the ease of play and introduction. It is very easy to pick up and get started to play. Probably the best in the business in that regard.

    As for everything else, there are mmorpgs that do it better but WoW does it well enough so that people generally won't leave it for something else.

  • slickbizzleslickbizzle Matthews, NCPosts: 464Member

    Marketing, marketing, marketing.

     

     

     

  • NasherUKNasherUK Secret cavePosts: 476Member Common

    Back in the day wow had something.  But these days, nothing really. There are better F2P games around now.

    Over simplifying the game and a couple of bad expansions didn't help though.  There is a reason people are flocking away from it in bus loads.

  • coldcut333coldcut333 NottinghamPosts: 86Member
    It runs on toasters.
  • TalRashaTalRasha GroningenPosts: 827Member
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Malice

    Gawd i wish it would just die so people would not compare everything to it ,there were games before it that were better and there will be better games after it,you just have to open your mind

     

    Give me an example.

     

    For example, WoW has pet battles. No other MMORPG has anything like that.

    You really seem to like those pet battles :p

    Is this the reason you think Wow does better than it's competition?

    I highly doubt this particular mini game can be the cause, since WoW was already doing better than the competition before MoP (wich first included the pet battle mini game) was released.

    So it must be something else.

    I think the reason is likely the timing, worth of mouth, friends already playing or picking it up because they knew about warcraft 1, 2, & 3.

  • sportsfansportsfan BlankenbergePosts: 431Member
    Originally posted by TalRasha
    Originally posted by Mors.Magne
    Originally posted by Malice

    Gawd i wish it would just die so people would not compare everything to it ,there were games before it that were better and there will be better games after it,you just have to open your mind

     

    Give me an example.

     

    For example, WoW has pet battles. No other MMORPG has anything like that.

    You really seem to like those pet battles :p

    Is this the reason you think Wow does better than it's competition?

    I highly doubt this particular mini game can be the cause, since WoW was already doing better than the competition before MoP (wich first included the pet battle mini game) was released.

    So it must be something else.

    I think the reason is likely the timing, worth of mouth, friends already playing or picking it up because they knew about warcraft 1, 2, & 3.

    Timing yes, because somehow Blizzard out performed in a technical way.

    In Vanilla WOW it was the extreme polished background loading and fast responsiveness.

    In early TBC all critical pvp content was cross served in BG's/arenas, allowing to have immediate access to PvP without hourly waiting times.

    In Wotlk they cross served dungeons to become relevant again. Allowing all leveling dungeons to be played again.

    Phasing was a breakthrough in that you could tell stories by doing actions that changed the open worlds in real time.

    It also allowed real time destruction of Keeps with fallen walls etc in Wintergrasp. That world zone was a blow to Warhammer's siege pathetic old siege mechanism back in 2008.

    2012 was perhaps the biggest breakthrough: seamless open world play across servers.

    It is odd that people don't see the logical consequence of these techniques.

    Both Pet Battles and Farming would be impossible without seamless phasing, nor would the new Virtual Realm exists without all the above (seamless background loading, cross server play, CRZ, ...).

     

    -

    The only thing that could tumble WOW in the last 2 years was something that is not related to quality and technical achievements ... and that is ... price.

    It is very hard to sell subscriptions these days in a market that went for garbage free to play gamettes (like iPads do).

    The problem is that Blizzard have to ask themselves: do we invest further in MMORPG technology or do we go along with free to play toys that are much easier and cheaper to make and bring in as much money as WOW ?

    I am afraid the decision is already made: Hearthstone and Blizzard's dota stay on target to be published, while Titan is too costly to roll out in the coming years.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,778Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tutu2
    8 years running and it still overshadows it competition significantly. Other MMOs improve certain aspects of the "WoW clone" yet what is it that makes WoW so enduring and keeps people coming back? 

    what does WoW do better than its competition? everything. Or it would have fallen a long time ago.

    image
  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,555Member Uncommon
    they appeal to kung fu panda fans
  • GishgeronGishgeron Princeton, KYPosts: 1,287Member

      Its visually appealing, in style.

      It runs on a very wide range of hardware.

      It's casual oriented, which appeals to the largest number of players in the market.

      Its been out so long that it has a ton of content and the player numbers to support even more.

      They have tons of stuff to just SEE hidden across the world.  Something TES games do as well, to their success.

      The combat is simple, elegant, and fun

      The UI is very modifiable and slick.

      They communicate regularly with their forum users (or did when last I played.  the class forums were always hopping with mods to grill)

      They managed to make the game in such a way that you can accomplish something in short times, so that you feel like you are moving forward at a good pace instead of content blocking you so hardcore.

      There is no real grind.  Ever.  The worst grind the game will throw at you would be considered a kindness in nearly all other MMO's

      The classes are varied and unique to themselves.

      They constantly change the classes.....let me elaborate.....

      I hated how much they changed the classes around in that game when I played.  I did, its true.  It feels like you spend so much time learning how to really play the class only to have to relearn it later.  But this actually works for them in the same way moving merchandise around works for retailers.  By making your buyer have to search again, they get to see your store and think of buying other things again.  By adjusting classes a lot, they never really get stagnant.  You are always trying to rework the system to your advantage.  Oh, we all hate it.  But it does kill the boredom of doing the same thing over and over.

      They add stupid little things all the time.  Events, silly side quests, easter eggs.

      They have among the largest PvP options of any other game.  I know, I know...PvP isn't the selling point blah blah blah.  But they do have a really wide net cast there.  Arena, Battlegrounds, PvP servers, World objectives....each serving to address a different PvP desire really.  More to the point, each preventing the stagnation of the other by giving the PvP player something else to do for a bit.

      I can do this all day, but I'll stop there.  I don't play WoW, and haven't for a long time.  I find other games to be more fun now.  But I'm not blind to why it works so well for them.

    image

  • BatCakezBatCakez None O''ya Business, CAPosts: 127Member

    Honestly, there is a novelty about it. For me, not so much because of the Warcraft games, but the decision implemented into the game. The graphics are cartoonish, but vibrant and fun. Some can vouch that it is more full of life, as games with more realistic graphics feel too stiff and dead.

    The layout of terrain seems perfect. It's as if towns are in the right location, and that 'random' cave are, too. It has nice spacing of areas to make the game world feel more large, when it is in fact not that huge. Especially in the beginning. Quests became more fun and interactive, and the useless rewards could sometimes be fun.

    I think the biggest however:

    (1) Your avatar is ever changing. You won't look the same at level 6 as you did 1, or 9 as you did 6, or 12 as you did 9. This keeps going all throughout the game, and there are SO many different armor designs, that it feels as though you are making progression. It's rewarding to see that you have, as well. Every few levels you have a piece of different gear, setting you apart in appearance from other fellow players.

    (2) The music and the world are enchanting. I remember when I started near launch, and was obsessed with the beauty of the Night Elves, the complexity of the Gnomes, and the story behind the Undead.

    (3) The combat meets the rest of the game fair and square. It all feels fluid together, and not forced or broken.

    It just feels that you're getting what you're paying for. Unfortunately with the latest release, I cannot say the same of it, maybe because it's no longer my cup of tea. Having a 'big bad guy' for every expansion seemed to be important to me. That was completely missing for MoP. I think the last time I was excited about the villain was WoTLK and BC.

    Dungeons were also fun, and I think the rewards you'd get for PvP'ing or Raiding/Instancing were always an added bonus to end game. Much like you had all the outfits to cycle through while leveling, you get something to show your hard work later down the line. It's hard to pin point anything in particular, but when the game first came out, it was really the only one of its kind. So, those of us that got drawn in, feel it was the best experience we've ever had. That might be where all the hype comes from, and most companies haven't been able to successfully replicate this. And if they did, we were already burnt out from the joys of WoW. Now we're all looking for the 'new best thing'.

  • HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member
    Sorry buddy but WoW still has no meaningful competition up to this day. When WildStar will be released, then we can discuss this again.

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  • NeVeRLiFtNeVeRLiFt Cleveland, TNPosts: 377Member Uncommon

    They made playing MMO casual and main stream, raiding and chasing the carrot on a stick gear grind was fun.

    Some bosses were hit or miss but over all WoW has the best raiding of any MMO.

    WoW should have did better with the battlegrounds and arena but I think the limitations of the game engine WoW uses held them back.

    I also think the game engine has held them back on adding features players have wanted... the game engine is just old and  very limiting.

    Wow is the best thempark MMO out because riding the same rides over and over can be fun.... if it's handled right, and Blizzard did it right.

    Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS
    Playing: Sims 4, Diablo3, TSW & LoTRO
    Waiting on: Everquest Next, BlackDesert, Camelot Unchained & Pathfinder Online!
    Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?

  • BatCakezBatCakez None O''ya Business, CAPosts: 127Member
    Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

    Wow is the best thempark MMO out because riding the same rides over and over can be fun.... if it's handled right, and Blizzard did it right.

    So could not have said that better myself!

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,453Member Uncommon

     

    Now the REAL FACTS.Since no other game had even 1 million players,that means Wow players were not even trying other games,they were simply Wow fanbois.That really means they had nothing to compare Wow to,so to say they kept going back because it was a BETTER game is 100% false.The only other real games back then was FFXI and EQ1 EQ2 ,very few in UO,DCUO,Anarchy, and SWG.Wow was already at 10 million,if those players were trying other games to compare WOW to ,those other games would have had 2/3/4 million and Wow would drop off and on by the month,but it only went up.So that means it was just a pile of NEW gamer's all flocking to the hype and "the popular game".

    FFXI,EQ1/2,UO and SWG none of those games went up in populace,so almost nobody  from WOW was even trying other games,so WOW's success was nothing more than popularity.Then to question why they keep going back,same thing,they are not even trying other games,so how would they be going back.

    Now fast forward and ,yes they are now trying other games and guess what ,Wow is down by 50%,they have lost more gamer's in total than any other game.They have lost more gamer's than the next biggest 4 games put together...OUCH.When you think about it losing 8-10 million that is only from the max ,it does not include the total amount lost.The overall total lsot might well be 15 million maybe even more.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • ArthasmArthasm LoznicaPosts: 754Member Uncommon

    Wow, Wow lost more subscribers than 4 most bigger games TOGETHER? True. But, do you know when one of those 4 games lost 4 milion players? Never!

    Cause, they never ever had 4 milion players.

  • sportsfansportsfan BlankenbergePosts: 431Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry

     

    Now the REAL FACTS.Since no other game had even 1 million players,that means Wow players were not even trying other games,they were simply Wow fanbois.That really means they had nothing to compare Wow to,so to say they kept going back because it was a BETTER game is 100% false.The only other real games back then was FFXI and EQ1 EQ2 ,very few in UO,DCUO,Anarchy, and SWG.Wow was already at 10 million,if those players were trying other games to compare WOW to ,those other games would have had 2/3/4 million and Wow would drop off and on by the month,but it only went up.So that means it was just a pile of NEW gamer's all flocking to the hype and "the popular game".

    FFXI,EQ1/2,UO and SWG none of those games went up in populace,so almost nobody  from WOW was even trying other games,so WOW's success was nothing more than popularity.Then to question why they keep going back,same thing,they are not even trying other games,so how would they be going back.

    Now fast forward and ,yes they are now trying other games and guess what ,Wow is down by 50%,they have lost more gamer's in total than any other game.They have lost more gamer's than the next biggest 4 games put together...OUCH.When you think about it losing 8-10 million that is only from the max ,it does not include the total amount lost.The overall total lsot might well be 15 million maybe even more.

     

    2010: WOW had 12.000.000 subscribers and was at its top with 62% of the subscrion based MMORPG market.

    2013: WOW has 8.000.000 subscribers and stands at the top with 95% of the subscription based MMORPG market.

    Don't mix things up: this MMORPG subscription based market turned free to play.

    WOW lost players...  BUT gained market share in the subscription based market.

    Hence Blizzard's revenue hardly dried up at all. They own the place in $$$ signs more than ever.

     

    So not even mmodata can keep up with these changes in a dying market.

     

    If WOW turned free to play it would be devastating to this industry:

    25.000.000 WoW players would be a breeze for a F2P WOW. But it would be "the end" for those others.

    Don't come up with free to play "players" and even dare to compare them with subscription based games.

    Only trolls would do that.

  • PrimernovaPrimernova Muncie, INPosts: 7Member

    It's hardly what it does, it's what it did in the past. Nostalgia and old friends/guilds, are all that is keeping that game afloat.

    Basically, through the lifespan of WoW through Vanilla, TBC and early LK; they combined all aspects of previous MMOs and their own lore making a nearly perfect MMO in every respect. This was combined with nearly all of the Vanilla/TBC devs leaving for Arenanet and Carbine, after/during vanilla and TBC. That is causing nothing but a confused mess everywhere now, for western MMOs. The best MMOs, by any region's definitions.

     

    It's kind of like a rock band from the 70s, getting pissed at eachother and then ruining it for everyone.

     

    A good MMO can rise up, but the current pool is just garbage.

     

    All of them.

     

    I still hold hope for Wildstar, it could be the 'vanilla WoW' we have been waiting for.

  • eccotoneccoton Pinehurst, NCPosts: 1,328Member

    What does WoW do better then its competition?  An interesting question to say the least. Look at all the answers and deep thoughts about WOW.  I think the answer is simple. WOW is a good entertainment product released at the right time. Everyone talks about the WOW killer, what will it be? Wildstar is now the hope for many to save the mmo world from that damn WOW. Wild star is no WOW killer. Only Blizzard can kill WOW and that will be when the lights are turned out. There will never be another WOW so developers stop trying to reproduce it.

    So back to the question "What does WoW do better then its competition?"  I played WOW for 6 years and left for other games. I recently returned after almost 2 years away and I am having a lot of fun. What WOW does better is "FUN". Any game gets boring after almost 8 years. So many long time player claim it was this expansion or that nerf that caused them to leave. Got news for you it wasn't it was timing and boredom after years of play. After almost 2 years away I find WOW fun and refreshing again. I have left and returned to other games but not with this fun feeling I am having with WOW.

    What Blizzard did better then the competition was make a wonderfully polished functional product that gives you a good return for your time, hardware, and monetary investment. This is something not to many other developers have been able to sustain over many years. So ultimately what Blizzard did better then the competition was hire a better team!

     

       

  • eccotoneccoton Pinehurst, NCPosts: 1,328Member
    Originally posted by NasherUK

    Back in the day wow had something.  But these days, nothing really. There are better F2P games around now.

    Over simplifying the game and a couple of bad expansions didn't help though.  There is a reason people are flocking away from it in bus loads.

    These are reasons people say they left but most left simply after many years of play. Instead of just realizing they are bored they have to come up with some short comings in the development to justify leaving after investing so much time. I don't do that becasue I just love the mmo experience so if I get bored I just leave and try something new. I do not invest emotion into a game so I do not have to have some profound reason to leave and try something new. Damn Blizzard for those bad expansions that drove me away! Most of you just got bored. 

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Tutu2
    8 years running and it still overshadows it competition significantly. Other MMOs improve certain aspects of the "WoW clone" yet what is it that makes WoW so enduring and keeps people coming back? 

    In the game itself? Nothing.

    The success of WoW is in timing, budget, marketing, and brand name recognition. It was the first AAA MMORPG made by a game studio with a huge reputation with gamers.

  • SukiyakiSukiyaki GreenwichPosts: 1,398Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sportsfan

    2010: WOW had 12.000.000 global subscribers and was at its top with 62% << source  for global  marketshare: yourself of the subscrion based MMORPG market.

    2013: WOW has 8.000.000 global subscribers and stands at the top with 95% << source for global  marketshare: yourself of the subscription based MMORPG market.

    Don't mix things up: this  MMORPG subscription based market turned free to play. << source for global  marketshare: yourself

    WOW lost players...  BUT gained market share in the subscription based market << source  for global marketshare: yourself.

    Hence Blizzard's revenue hardly dried up at all. They own the place in $$$ signs more than ever.  << source  for  marketshare: yourself.

     

    So not even mmodata can keep up with these changes in a dying market. << source  for reason of of inactivity of a irrelevant private unprofessional website fabricating population data about games for years: yourself.

     

    would would would should could maybe ....

    If WOW turned free to play it would be devastating to this industry:

    25.000.000 WoW players would be a breeze for a F2P WOW. But it would be "the end" for those others.

    Don't come up with free to play "players" and even dare to compare them with subscription based games.

    Only trolls would do that.

     

    And you only had to invent and fabricate 5 out of  5 of the relevant "facts" cited, besides the two known global active account numbers, to make WoWs financial and popularity decline look so much more favourable!

  • sportsfansportsfan BlankenbergePosts: 431Member
    Originally posted by Sukiyaki
    Originally posted by sportsfan

    2010: WOW had 12.000.000 global subscribers and was at its top with 62% << source  for global  marketshare: yourself of the subscrion based MMORPG market.

    2013: WOW has 8.000.000 global subscribers and stands at the top with 95% << source for global  marketshare: yourself of the subscription based MMORPG market.

    Don't mix things up: this  MMORPG subscription based market turned free to play. << source for global  marketshare: yourself

    WOW lost players...  BUT gained market share in the subscription based market << source  for global marketshare: yourself.

    Hence Blizzard's revenue hardly dried up at all. They own the place in $$$ signs more than ever.  << source  for  marketshare: yourself.

     

    So not even mmodata can keep up with these changes in a dying market. << source  for reason of of inactivity of a irrelevant private unprofessional website fabricating population data about games for years: yourself.

     

    would would would should could maybe ....

    If WOW turned free to play it would be devastating to this industry:

    25.000.000 WoW players would be a breeze for a F2P WOW. But it would be "the end" for those others.

    Don't come up with free to play "players" and even dare to compare them with subscription based games.

    Only trolls would do that.

     

    And you only had to invent and fabricate 5 out of  5 of the relevant "facts" cited, besides the two known global active account numbers, to make WoWs financial and popularity decline look so much more favourable!

    Inventing and fabricate ?

    " April 2008,  WOW was estimated to hold 62 percent of the MMORPG subscription market"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft

    As stated the highest point of subscriptions in WOW was 2010. (see reference too)

    ---

    Since that time ... Lotro, D&D0n line, Star Trek On line, Age of Conan, Aion, APB, Everquest 2, CoH, PotbS, B&S, DC Universe, Hellgate London, Tabula Rasa, SWGalaxies, SW TOR, Rift  and along with a few hundred others  (space prohibits to reproduce the endless list)... went/are FREE to play or simply DIED even...

    I think the 95% market share in SUBSCRIPTIONS is telling everything really.

    Going F2P is a shake out in this industry, not a new model to make more money.

     

    Proof ? Let's take the latest one that turned F2P: Rift: even in its "relaunching weeks of F2P" ... it barely made it to 22 servers, while at its launch as a subscription based game it gathered 99 servers.

    All with a non steady and very doubtful new revenue model. Why doubtful ? Look at the King of F2P with 80 million players: Farmville.... only 3% pay 20 dollars or more, the vast majority or 82% pay ... ZERO dollars.

    Tx for proving my points btw. (and just to be sure, I have the links of that last statement too :) )

     

  • ShadoedShadoed BirminghamPosts: 1,499Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wizardry

     

    Now the REAL FACTS.Since no other game had even 1 million players,that means Wow players were not even trying other games,they were simply Wow fanbois.That really means they had nothing to compare Wow to,so to say they kept going back because it was a BETTER game is 100% false.The only other real games back then was FFXI and EQ1 EQ2 ,very few in UO,DCUO,Anarchy, and SWG.Wow was already at 10 million,if those players were trying other games to compare WOW to ,those other games would have had 2/3/4 million and Wow would drop off and on by the month,but it only went up.So that means it was just a pile of NEW gamer's all flocking to the hype and "the popular game".

    FFXI,EQ1/2,UO and SWG none of those games went up in populace,so almost nobody  from WOW was even trying other games,so WOW's success was nothing more than popularity.Then to question why they keep going back,same thing,they are not even trying other games,so how would they be going back.

    Now fast forward and ,yes they are now trying other games and guess what ,Wow is down by 50%,they have lost more gamer's in total than any other game.They have lost more gamer's than the next biggest 4 games put together...OUCH.When you think about it losing 8-10 million that is only from the max ,it does not include the total amount lost.The overall total lsot might well be 15 million maybe even more.

     

    That has to be the strangest use of the phrase 'REAL FACTS'

    You can prove beyond a doubt that no WoW players ever played other games before WOW?

    Personally i had MUD, E&B, Eve, AO & DoaC under my belt before i went in there, so i hate to debunk your facts from the off, but then again i am only one person.

    We would also have to believe that the existing games had no fluctuation in their numbers, less than a million had ever played these games ever before WoW hit the scene?

    The bigger factor is that we would have to believe that people were coming back to WoW even though they didn't like it because they didn't know or want to try anything else?!?

    The loss of numbers can in part be contributed to people playing other games, especially since they can get the majority of them for free now or at the very least with no subscription, but i think that is also combined with the fact that WoW is now an old game, plain and simple.

    One thing i do believe from your facts is that it may well have turned over 15Mill+ players in it's time and as someone else has already said, the other games are dreading the day that this one goes FTP given the customer base that would buy into it at that point.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

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