Ironic how I was 15 when I began playing EQ and absolutely loved it's PVE gameplay. Now 13 years later I am still pleased to hear it may have non-consensual PVP. It should be done the right way though, where it will be easy to create or join factions with other players, as well as plenty of player created fortifications and areas that are patrolled to make it a non-gankfest. NPC's will probably be hire-able or relied upon in some cases and may even join you to do PVE activities i.e. a patrol, scout, or a resource gathering mission. This will be a vastly different kind of MMO than we're used to and PVP may only be a small part of the game's focus at times and a bigger focus at other times, depending on your play style. If you choose to be an explorer of course it'll be more frequent or if you choose to be a builder then you may not confront it as much.
I'm just curious how many people who want FFA PvP etc actually played EQ, or just want FFA PvP EQ:Next because of the whole "Teh Best at E3" nonsense so jumped on the bandwagon.....The average gamer age nowdays I guess to be mid 20's? so alot of them would of been very young when EQ was released.
I read these forums alot and many times the argument drifts away from the original point, not that can/if/why X system would work....it's more is it fitting in this style of game given its lore, history and past games and the playerbase it already caters to.
I'm sitting here reading these arguments against pvp, gank this, gank that. Have you played Wushu?! Those arguments are tired, old, and have no barring on today's mmorpgs.
A virtual FFA world can and was created free of gank squads, with no safe zones. I expect nothing less from the people at sony.
Reward pvp with a purpose, punish murder. No one wants a lawless world where safe zones are needed.
Or even WoW
I think WoW proves all these gankfest QQers wrong. It has (well used to have) OWPVP, yet it has never been gankfest.
The only purpose of bringing Wushu into this is to show that a FFA world pvp, doesn't not mean gank squads and safe zones.
Actually I think that's a very good point. but...
There is still "forced" pvp on players and The EQ franchise has a huge amount of pve only players.
Sony is not going to turn their back on these players.
Except they already 'turned their backs' as you say when they decided to make EQN a sandbox instead of a themepark. Though they really aren't because they have no plans to shutdown the EQ and EQ2 servers. Getting these people to go from one game to another of their games does absolutely nothing for them. There is zero net gain there.
The only purpose of bringing Wushu into this is to show that a FFA world pvp, doesn't not mean gank squads and safe zones.
Actually I think that's a very good point. but...
There is still "forced" pvp on players and The EQ franchise has a huge amount of pve only players.
Sony is not going to turn their back on these players.
Thank god, someone who thinks the same thing I do.
I'll go one step further ; I personally think the come lately pvp crowd will be vastly disappointed with whatever PvP system is put into EQN. EQ's about PvE , Smedley can troll all he likes but the bottom line is the dollar ... SoE simply won't alienate their client base for a niche market.
---- I'm speculating.
P.S -- Everquest was more of a sandbox than a themepark , so no ... SoE didn't turn their back on us. EQ2 is a very well done themepark in that the plethora of choices it offers detracts from the obvious flaws of a modern themepark. ( Tangent )
I'm just curious how many people who want FFA PvP etc actually played EQ, or just want FFA PvP EQ:Next because of the whole "Teh Best at E3" nonsense so jumped on the bandwagon.....The average gamer age nowdays I guess to be mid 20's? so alot of them would of been very young when EQ was released.
I read these forums alot and many times the argument drifts away from the original point, not that can/if/why X system would work....it's more is it fitting in this style of game given its lore, history and past games and the playerbase it already caters to.
Good Post, I have often wondered that as well. As a title gains more momentum there are bound to be people who jump on for the ride.
Original EQ did have free for all PvP, it was called the Rallos Zek server. Other ruleset servers came along like Sullon Zek with racial GooD,Evil,Nuetral factions.
The ONLY places to PvP on ANY of the main servers was inside an Arena. The only time people could duel was if they both were in inside the arena. Each of the Capitol cities had their own Arena, as well as the original Bazaar and even an Entire Zone named 'The Arena".
The old system Everquest had fit the lore perfectly, I hope they don't stray too far from that formula.
164 votes and exactly 50-50 .. That surprises me. Thought there was a lot more "carebears" out there.
No flaming intended.
Imo, a lot of "carebears" overestimate how often fights break-out in true open-world pvp games. They picture an atmosphhere that is chaotic where fights happen around every corner without reason.
If the "carebear" crowd understood how chill open-world pvp games actualy are, I bet the poll would be more like 80%:20%.
As long as they separate pvp and pve abilities I'm good. As a PvE player primarily, I'm growing bored and need some risk reward while Pveing in the open world.
Also the world will need to be big and open. If its corridored swtor style, I would obviously not want open world pvp.
The only purpose of bringing Wushu into this is to show that a FFA world pvp, doesn't not mean gank squads and safe zones.
Actually I think that's a very good point. but...
There is still "forced" pvp on players and The EQ franchise has a huge amount of pve only players.
Sony is not going to turn their back on these players.
Thank god, someone who thinks the same thing I do.
I'll go one step further ; I personally think the come lately pvp crowd will be vastly disappointed with whatever PvP system is put into EQN. EQ's about PvE , Smedley can troll all he likes but the bottom line is the dollar ... SoE simply won't alienate their client base for a niche market.
---- I'm speculating.
P.S -- Everquest was more of a sandbox than a themepark , so no ... SoE didn't turn their back on us. EQ2 is a very well done themepark in that the plethora of choices it offers detracts from the obvious flaws of a modern themepark. ( Tangent )
Sorry, but no matter how much you say it, it will not make Everquest anymore of a sandbox. We already have a sandbox to compare it to during that era: Ultima Online. Everquest is a typical loot centric, static world, themepark game.
Also, that 'niche market' as you call it, has the second highest western MMORPG subscriber base in the market with EVE. Planetside 2, a PVP-focused game, is SOE's highest active playerbase of any of their games.
I guess we all have different definitions of open PvP, but I consider it being able to go out and kill anybody I see. I'm not really for this, but I am for something more factional like Planetside 2 where I can kill anyone that isn't part of my side.
EQ2 was never a "consented" pvp game. When they released PVP, it was open world, but with level ranges dependent on the zone.
They only really need to worry about the griefing, and to me they already have a decent system they could use. If you kill someone enough, you become carnage flagged, which allows anyone from any level to kill you.
Some of my best memories of EQ2 was questing, then getting killed a couple times and my guild would come out, then their guild would come out, and a huge battle of group on group, or bigger would break out. So much fun. Then after a few group on group battles, people would go back to doing their own thing, and the fighting stopped. There was a mutual agreement.
Also EQ2 has the "recent" list, where anyone on your recent list wouldn't give you any updates, fame, etc for 10 minutes.
The only purpose of bringing Wushu into this is to show that a FFA world pvp, doesn't not mean gank squads and safe zones.
Actually I think that's a very good point. but...
There is still "forced" pvp on players and The EQ franchise has a huge amount of pve only players.
Sony is not going to turn their back on these players.
Thank god, someone who thinks the same thing I do.
I'll go one step further ; I personally think the come lately pvp crowd will be vastly disappointed with whatever PvP system is put into EQN. EQ's about PvE , Smedley can troll all he likes but the bottom line is the dollar ... SoE simply won't alienate their client base for a niche market.
---- I'm speculating.
P.S -- Everquest was more of a sandbox than a themepark , so no ... SoE didn't turn their back on us. EQ2 is a very well done themepark in that the plethora of choices it offers detracts from the obvious flaws of a modern themepark. ( Tangent )
Sorry, but no matter how much you say it, it will not make Everquest anymore of a sandbox. We already have a sandbox to compare it to during that era: Ultima Online. Everquest is a typical loot centric, static world, themepark game.
Also, that 'niche market' as you call it, has the second highest western MMORPG subscriber base in the market with EVE. Planetside 2, a PVP-focused game, is SOE's highest active playerbase of any of their games.
I disagree with you , but this isn't the thread to discuss why so we will leave it at that.
PS2 is a MMOFPS -- which is an entirely different beast , apples to oranges, completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Maybe if PVP players behaved less like kids people would welcome them in their games.
Yes we get it, you like acting tough, you like using "carebear" and you think PVP is better.
Most people in Everquest or Everquest 2 and frankly most MMO players really don't give a damn about PVP.
PVE to PVP servers in Everquest is 16 to 1 to pure PVP. And that 1 should be a 0 because most people don't even PVP on the PVP server.
If this game needs to succeed you're going to need to realise PVP is a tiny minority of the MMO playerbase.
Until they ruined pvp by changing rulesets / not allowing people to lock, Nagafen was the highest populated server in EQ2. Only 2 of the other servers came close. And even now Nagafen is still one of the top populated servers with a medium to high load a lot of the time.
Can have 40 PVE servers, but if the population on them is low, who cares. But in my opinion ,there will be PVE and PVP based servers just like there was in EQ2. That way they can hit every market.
I'm sitting here reading these arguments against pvp, gank this, gank that. Have you played Wushu?! Those arguments are tired, old, and have no barring on today's mmorpgs.
A virtual FFA world can and was created free of gank squads, with no safe zones. I expect nothing less from the people at sony.
Reward pvp with a purpose, punish murder. No one wants a lawless world where safe zones are needed.
Or even WoW
I think WoW proves all these gankfest QQers wrong. It has (well used to have) OWPVP, yet it has never been gankfest.
You never played on Outland obviously
Been subscribed to WoW since day 1 with several little breaks. I stay behind what I said whatever it was (Romney said that I believe ). No seriously, I think WoW has never been gankfest. Judging by your post, you do not agree.
WOW is totally a gank fest but only because they don't have level range caps for PVP. I was killed easily over 50 times just getting to my 50s by people who were max level and just bored.
SoE simply won't alienate their client base for a niche market
Most PVP players are so delusional that they still don't realise they are an extreme niche in the fantasy RPG MMO. In the EQ world they're pretty much ignored. EQ has 1 dead PVP server for 16 PVE servers. And those servers are pure PVE, no PVP whatsoever.
And of that small PVP niche that exists, the people who actually like open world gankfest PVP are even smaller.
Yes, for sure! I'm also wondering why so many people think PVP is for "15 year olds with nothing better to do" or "brats" and no one else. I love falling into the PVE aspect and story and then that whole concept being torn up the moment I step into a certain zone or a certain enemy attacks me, I love that. Also, people talk of these renown ganks where they can't escape and I just have to say of all the years playing open world PVP, I've never had an issue where eventually I could NOT escape. Please, make it fun for yourself, ask people if they wanna party that way when someone does try to gank you there are allies near! Cheers looking forward to this.
SoE simply won't alienate their client base for a niche market
Most PVP players are so delusional that they still don't realise they are an extreme niche in the fantasy RPG MMO. In the EQ world they're pretty much ignored. EQ has 1 dead PVP server for 16 PVE servers. And those servers are pure PVE, no PVP whatsoever.
And of that small PVP niche that exists, the people who actually like open world gankfest PVP are even smaller.
Yep , luckily I understand I'm a niche market player ... so keeping my pve games different from my pvp games is a priority.
What is always interesting in these types of threads is how whereas the general feeling amongst PvE players is that of being generally overwhelmingly for separate PvE and PvP servers, PvP players generally argue against separate servers. So whereas PvE players express a mentality of compromise in that we can have our server and you can have yours, PvP players express one of no you will not have your own server, you will be forced unto our server and fulfill the role of being the involuntary victim of our psychopathic behavior thereby increasing our fun factor. The fact that it is not fun for you is highly irrelevant.
Another reason is, of course, that without the constant pool feed of PvE centric players most MMORPGs that have PvP elements eventually flutter and die. In other words, whereas PvE players can do just fine without PvP players, PvP players know they can not survive without PvE players, and they know it.
What is always interesting in these types of threads is how the general feeling amongst PvE players is that they are generally overwhelmingly for separate PvE and PvP servers, PvP players generally argue against separate servers. So whereas PvE players express a mentality of compromise in that we can have our server and you can have yours, PvP players express one of no you will not have your own server, you will be forced unto our server and fulfill the role of being the involuntary victim of our psychopathic behavior thereby increasing our fun factor. The fact that it is not fun for you is highly irrelevant.
Comments
164 votes and exactly 50-50 .. That surprises me. Thought there was a lot more "carebears" out there.
No flaming intended.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.
I'm just curious how many people who want FFA PvP etc actually played EQ, or just want FFA PvP EQ:Next because of the whole "Teh Best at E3" nonsense so jumped on the bandwagon.....The average gamer age nowdays I guess to be mid 20's? so alot of them would of been very young when EQ was released.
I read these forums alot and many times the argument drifts away from the original point, not that can/if/why X system would work....it's more is it fitting in this style of game given its lore, history and past games and the playerbase it already caters to.
Actually I think that's a very good point. but...
There is still "forced" pvp on players and The EQ franchise has a huge amount of pve only players.
Sony is not going to turn their back on these players.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You never played on Outland obviously
Except they already 'turned their backs' as you say when they decided to make EQN a sandbox instead of a themepark. Though they really aren't because they have no plans to shutdown the EQ and EQ2 servers. Getting these people to go from one game to another of their games does absolutely nothing for them. There is zero net gain there.
Thank god, someone who thinks the same thing I do.
I'll go one step further ; I personally think the come lately pvp crowd will be vastly disappointed with whatever PvP system is put into EQN. EQ's about PvE , Smedley can troll all he likes but the bottom line is the dollar ... SoE simply won't alienate their client base for a niche market.
---- I'm speculating.
P.S -- Everquest was more of a sandbox than a themepark , so no ... SoE didn't turn their back on us. EQ2 is a very well done themepark in that the plethora of choices it offers detracts from the obvious flaws of a modern themepark. ( Tangent )
Good Post, I have often wondered that as well. As a title gains more momentum there are bound to be people who jump on for the ride.
Original EQ did have free for all PvP, it was called the Rallos Zek server. Other ruleset servers came along like Sullon Zek with racial GooD,Evil,Nuetral factions.
The ONLY places to PvP on ANY of the main servers was inside an Arena. The only time people could duel was if they both were in inside the arena. Each of the Capitol cities had their own Arena, as well as the original Bazaar and even an Entire Zone named 'The Arena".
The old system Everquest had fit the lore perfectly, I hope they don't stray too far from that formula.
Imo, a lot of "carebears" overestimate how often fights break-out in true open-world pvp games. They picture an atmosphhere that is chaotic where fights happen around every corner without reason.
If the "carebear" crowd understood how chill open-world pvp games actualy are, I bet the poll would be more like 80%:20%.
Also the world will need to be big and open. If its corridored swtor style, I would obviously not want open world pvp.
Sorry, but no matter how much you say it, it will not make Everquest anymore of a sandbox. We already have a sandbox to compare it to during that era: Ultima Online. Everquest is a typical loot centric, static world, themepark game.
Also, that 'niche market' as you call it, has the second highest western MMORPG subscriber base in the market with EVE. Planetside 2, a PVP-focused game, is SOE's highest active playerbase of any of their games.
EQ2 was never a "consented" pvp game. When they released PVP, it was open world, but with level ranges dependent on the zone.
They only really need to worry about the griefing, and to me they already have a decent system they could use. If you kill someone enough, you become carnage flagged, which allows anyone from any level to kill you.
Some of my best memories of EQ2 was questing, then getting killed a couple times and my guild would come out, then their guild would come out, and a huge battle of group on group, or bigger would break out. So much fun. Then after a few group on group battles, people would go back to doing their own thing, and the fighting stopped. There was a mutual agreement.
Also EQ2 has the "recent" list, where anyone on your recent list wouldn't give you any updates, fame, etc for 10 minutes.
Killing dragons is my shit
Maybe if PVP players behaved less like kids people would welcome them in their games.
Yes we get it, you like acting tough, you like using "carebear" and you think PVP is better.
Most people in Everquest or Everquest 2 and frankly most MMO players really don't give a damn about PVP.
PVE to PVP servers in Everquest is 16 to 1 to pure PVE. And that 1 should be a 0 because most people don't even PVP on the PVP server.
If this game needs to succeed you're going to need to realise PVP is a tiny minority of the MMO playerbase.
I disagree with you , but this isn't the thread to discuss why so we will leave it at that.
PS2 is a MMOFPS -- which is an entirely different beast , apples to oranges, completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Until they ruined pvp by changing rulesets / not allowing people to lock, Nagafen was the highest populated server in EQ2. Only 2 of the other servers came close. And even now Nagafen is still one of the top populated servers with a medium to high load a lot of the time.
Can have 40 PVE servers, but if the population on them is low, who cares. But in my opinion ,there will be PVE and PVP based servers just like there was in EQ2. That way they can hit every market.
Killing dragons is my shit
WOW is totally a gank fest but only because they don't have level range caps for PVP. I was killed easily over 50 times just getting to my 50s by people who were max level and just bored.
Killing dragons is my shit
Most PVP players are so delusional that they still don't realise they are an extreme niche in the fantasy RPG MMO. In the EQ world they're pretty much ignored. EQ has 1 dead PVP server for 16 PVE servers. And those servers are pure PVE, no PVP whatsoever.
And of that small PVP niche that exists, the people who actually like open world gankfest PVP are even smaller.
Yes, for sure! I'm also wondering why so many people think PVP is for "15 year olds with nothing better to do" or "brats" and no one else. I love falling into the PVE aspect and story and then that whole concept being torn up the moment I step into a certain zone or a certain enemy attacks me, I love that. Also, people talk of these renown ganks where they can't escape and I just have to say of all the years playing open world PVP, I've never had an issue where eventually I could NOT escape. Please, make it fun for yourself, ask people if they wanna party that way when someone does try to gank you there are allies near! Cheers looking forward to this.
Yep , luckily I understand I'm a niche market player ... so keeping my pve games different from my pvp games is a priority.
What is always interesting in these types of threads is how whereas the general feeling amongst PvE players is that of being generally overwhelmingly for separate PvE and PvP servers, PvP players generally argue against separate servers. So whereas PvE players express a mentality of compromise in that we can have our server and you can have yours, PvP players express one of no you will not have your own server, you will be forced unto our server and fulfill the role of being the involuntary victim of our psychopathic behavior thereby increasing our fun factor. The fact that it is not fun for you is highly irrelevant.
Another reason is, of course, that without the constant pool feed of PvE centric players most MMORPGs that have PvP elements eventually flutter and die. In other words, whereas PvE players can do just fine without PvP players, PvP players know they can not survive without PvE players, and they know it.
This read is always quite entertaining.
Carry on.
Spot on, good post