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Microsoft just dropped DRM

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  • MerklynnMerklynn FLUSHING, NYPosts: 87Member Uncommon
    No matter what both Xbox1 and PS4 will do well when they launch. We all have our favorite exclusives that simply must be played but Microsoft saw Sony getting a big boost of gamer support & had no choice but do a 180. At this point both companies want our gaming dollars so expect plenty more interesting events before launch.
  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by darkhalf357x
    It would have killed their sales and their image.  Still going to hack it like I did my 360.

     

     

    This is the reason why they wanted the 24 Hour Authentication Check.

     It still wouldn't have stopped it, the connection process can be spoofed which is how all cloud based games have been hacked. Just look at ONlive lol.

     

    What happened with Onlive? I thought that service died awhile back.

     awhile back? its only been going for 3 years. they found a way to hack their service, though some of it has been fixed, people keep finding a way to play games without paying for them and even cheating on the games.

    anyway im done posting for the night...this James Gandolfini news I stumbled across got me down to the point im feeling the need to drink.

     

     

    I know its been going for around 3 years because I was a beta tester for Onlive. I thought I read somewhere that it was bought out by some company and afther that I never heard anything about it again.

    Nah, it's not dead. Onlive was bought out but it is still going. Its also going to be part of the Xbox One in a sense anyways. 

    http://iebandonlive.eventbrite.com/

    "We are eager to speak to individuals and teams affected by the OnLive transition.  With the stunning success of Xbox/Kinect and the accelerated growth of this business, we are looking to add key players who want to make a real impact in creating groundbreaking new products and services.

    We have positions in both Redmond, WA, and in Mountain View. There are big projects in the pipeline for the rest of 2012 and beyond, and the team is growing rapidly to support the work ahead! We’d love to have YOU be part of our team!

    Come join us!  Enjoy food, drinks and mix and mingle with our hiring managers .  Stick around for a chance to win a Kinect Bundle.  We will be raffling one off during the Mixer."

     

     

  • Kaijin2k3Kaijin2k3 Santa Monica, CAPosts: 558Member
    Originally posted by bestever

    I never said that they are going to pull their licences from steam, I said they could and you all can say that it would end up in a law suit all you want. How do you sue for something you don't own? Anyways thanks for trying to twist that and put words in my mouth.

    In the end they can do what ever they want since its not are property and till laws are changed for digital owner ship we don't have a leg to stand on. Just like if I get a movie on amazon and the licences gets pulled I no longer have that movie. Whats so hard about understanding that? I can't go after amazon. All you get is a digital right to use the licence and that's it, you don't own it.

    What if steam shut down tomorrow then what? Who are you going to sue then?  

    Publishers pulling games off of Steam has already happened, or did you miss this when Crysis 2 and Dragon Age 2 was pulled from Steam by EA?

    Anyone who owned the game WAS NOT AFFECTED. You just couldn't buy it anymore (although Crysis 2 Maximum Edition was later added).

    No publisher in their right mind would pull something like that. The outcry against that specific publisher along with Steam would dwarf the reaction from the X1; and we saw what MS now had to do.

    EDIT: For some reason I thought this was a seperate thread. I wanted to add that I think it's absolutely great that MS dropped those policies. Whether they regain the trust of offended buyers is another topic, but I still hardily clap the action at least (though I am aware they could bring the policies back, my clap will change if that ever occurs =P).

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Microsoft will digg for new ways to screw their customers.
    Dont think for a second this company can be trusted.

    Sony all the way.

     

    Did you just say Sony can be trusted?   ...LOL

    Seriously, you guys got some serious issues. Even when Microsoft gives you what you want, you give them no credit at all. I guess haters gunna hate.

    image
  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye jarrowPosts: 1,016Member
    MS will screw xbox1 owners another way.   Backing down on DRM doesn't cut it, they will just add another feature to make it difficult to sell and buy second hand games. Its all about damage limitation ensuring they get better sales over Sony, not about listening to consumers, once they sold their units they got you.
  • AlthewiseguyAlthewiseguy DumfriesPosts: 108Member
    Originally posted by Adalwulff
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Microsoft will digg for new ways to screw their customers.
    Dont think for a second this company can be trusted.

    Sony all the way.

     

    Did you just say Sony can be trusted?   ...LOL

    Seriously, you guys got some serious issues. Even when Microsoft gives you what you want, you give them no credit at all. I guess haters gunna hate.

    Well there is a lot to hate. The fact that Microsoft even thought their initial pitch of the Xbox 1 was acceptable in any way. Their backtrack was just to try and save their new console from losing out to the competition. If they can get it THAT wrong once. They can do so again. And judging their history they likely will. 

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    MS will screw xbox1 owners another way.   Backing down on DRM doesn't cut it, they will just add another feature to make it difficult to sell and buy second hand games. Its all about damage limitation ensuring they get better sales over Sony, not about listening to consumers, once they sold their units they got you.
    Originally posted by Althewiseguy
    Originally posted by Adalwulff
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Microsoft will digg for new ways to screw their customers.
    Dont think for a second this company can be trusted.

    Sony all the way.

     

    Did you just say Sony can be trusted?   ...LOL

    Seriously, you guys got some serious issues. Even when Microsoft gives you what you want, you give them no credit at all. I guess haters gunna hate.

    Well there is a lot to hate. The fact that Microsoft even thought their initial pitch of the Xbox 1 was acceptable in any way. Their backtrack was just to try and save their new console from losing out to the competition. If they can get it THAT wrong once. They can do so again. And judging their history they likely will. 

     

    Sony started it, and the patent was going to be just tie the game to your PSN account, and not be able to trade games in at all or share with friends, and Xbox ONE policy was going to be better than PS4, but they just backed out after seeing the lynching MS was getting - MS: We have DRM, Fans: Boo!, Sony: We support used games, Fans: Sony rules, MS sucks.

    I guess Sonys plan to get more sales worked.

    MS will not bother with this again, like double jeopardy, but Sony might do it still, and they will not get as much anger either

    Plus Sony have something else nice in the works too

    Being a Xbox owner since the original Xbox, I have never been screwed by MS at all, and they always do the right thing in the end, Sony on the other hand have screwed the Playstation owners:

    • Updating PSP to remove homebrew possibilities
    • EU not getting HDDs for PS2s
    • Updating PS3s to remove Linux functionaility after approving it inititially making people who bought the machine just for that a waste of money.
    • Sonys behaviour went so far that a group called Anonymous went up against Sony, and the network was hacked in 2011 compromising peoples accounts and payment details
    MS makes mistakes but always corrects them (like here) or suffers a loss from it, like RROD replacing/repairing consoles free of charge past warranty. Sony do not do these things as they do not have the capital to do so, all they do is bow before you in great shame.
  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    MS will screw xbox1 owners another way.   Backing down on DRM doesn't cut it, they will just add another feature to make it difficult to sell and buy second hand games. Its all about damage limitation ensuring they get better sales over Sony, not about listening to consumers, once they sold their units they got you.
    Originally posted by Althewiseguy
    Originally posted by Adalwulff
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Microsoft will digg for new ways to screw their customers.
    Dont think for a second this company can be trusted.

    Sony all the way.

     

    Did you just say Sony can be trusted?   ...LOL

    Seriously, you guys got some serious issues. Even when Microsoft gives you what you want, you give them no credit at all. I guess haters gunna hate.

    Well there is a lot to hate. The fact that Microsoft even thought their initial pitch of the Xbox 1 was acceptable in any way. Their backtrack was just to try and save their new console from losing out to the competition. If they can get it THAT wrong once. They can do so again. And judging their history they likely will. 

     

    Sony started it, and the patent was going to be just tie the game to your PSN account, and not be able to trade games in at all or share with friends, and Xbox ONE policy was going to be better than PS4, but they just backed out after seeing the lynching MS was getting - MS: We have DRM, Fans: Boo!, Sony: We support used games, Fans: Sony rules, MS sucks.

    I guess Sonys plan to get more sales worked.

    MS will not bother with this again, like double jeopardy, but Sony might do it still, and they will not get as much anger either

    Plus Sony have something else nice in the works too

    Being a Xbox owner since the original Xbox, I have never been screwed by MS at all, and they always do the right thing in the end, Sony on the other hand have screwed the Playstation owners:

    • Updating PSP to remove homebrew possibilities
    • EU not getting HDDs for PS2s
    • Updating PS3s to remove Linux functionaility after approving it inititially making people who bought the machine just for that a waste of money.
    • Sonys behaviour went so far that a group called Anonymous went up against Sony, and the network was hacked in 2011 compromising peoples accounts and payment details
    MS makes mistakes but always corrects them (like here) or suffers a loss from it, like RROD replacing/repairing consoles free of charge past warranty. Sony do not do these things as they do not have the capital to do so, all they do is bow before you in great shame.

    Sorry, Sony has the capital they just didn't implement these things. One company is pretty intelligent while the other isn't. 

    Sony has always had the better hardware and made the better deals. It's why even releasing a year after Xbox 360 and being higher priced that still outsold the 360 in the long run. 

    Microsoft likes to think customers will just take it. Win8 sells have been awful. Xbox 360 couldn't even beat the PS3 with all the advantages it had in the beginning. If they listened to their target audience from the start they could avoid a lot of the fallout that they continue to bring on themselves. 

    I don't think Sony is "For the gamer" but they do have good business sense. They know pissed off gamers aren't likely to open their wallet for them, and not only that but news travels fast when it comes to games and nothing stays secret for very long. 

     

    As far as your Anonymous comments, with the Xbox One Microsoft went far beyond everything Sony has done across all of its products. 

    The Privacy issues, the violation of consumer rights, and so much more have painted a great big bullseye on Microsofts back. What Sony did was considered minor by most and many did not support Anonymous, how many would side with Microsoft should Anonymous attack the Xbox Live servers over issues with the Xbox One especially if the DRM policy hadn't changed?

  • TheMaahesTheMaahes Marlborough, MAPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Althewiseguy

     

    Too little too late. If they can switch their policies at a whim once they can do it again. Damage is done. 

     

    I think this is the point people are missing. Even though Microsoft now reversed its policies now what prevents them from doing so after it launches once they've earned their profit?

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by TheMaahes
    Originally posted by Althewiseguy

     

    Too little too late. If they can switch their policies at a whim once they can do it again. Damage is done. 

     

    I think this is the point people are missing. Even though Microsoft now reversed its policies now what prevents them from doing so after it launches once they've earned their profit?

    Nothing lol, because if its this easy to reverse then it would be just as easy to reinstate after they have moved enough units they don't have to worry about backlash. 

     

  • sunshadow21sunshadow21 Omaha, NEPosts: 354Member

    Interesting to see such a dramatic reversal so quickly. I expected them to at least fight for some of the aspects of their DRM plans; to see them retreat entirely is both surprising and troublesome, since it likely means that any future implementation of their goals is likely to be just as rough as this one.

    A few thoughts I've had reading this thread:

    1) Consoles are not PCs, and never will be. They serve completely different functions and roles, and the role that the console typically plays is not one that is conducive to requiring online connectivity, nor are the average console games. Having online components, either in game or separate media tie ins, as an option for those gamers and developers that want to use them is a very good thing, and it's probably even a required option, but it does need to be an option rather than an automatic, across the board implementation. The types of games and gamers that consoles cater too is simply too varied to not include the option for offline play. Those developers that are creating games that can benefit from an online presence should certainly take advantage of them, but not every console game can or should have an online component.

    2) A big part of the issue here is that Microsoft was really pushing for a purely digital experience, and that simply is not realistic for consoles. Steam gets the pass that it does largely because they are all digital, and people are willing to accept the limitations of such because the benefits are clear. Microsoft was trying to push all digital solutions in a market that would still sees physical media as not only the norm, but an advantage; their initial plan would have forced the consumer to accept the worst of both worlds, with very few of the benefits of either. Even ten years from now, I suspect that the market will still be strong for physical media based systems, as they serve different needs and functions than digital based systems.

    3) The grand digital takeover of the world will never happen, nor will the grand unification of all entertainment functions into one box. As people are experiencing both first hand more and more, they are starting to discover the pitfalls of these systems, and even if the issue of an underlying infrastructure to deliver it effectively wasn't an issue, there are still plenty of times and places where digital solutions simply don't work. Similarly, the grand all in one box theory falls flat as the quality of the individual functions is adversely affected with each additional function added. Neither of these trends are going to disappear, but they are going to be more and more focused on specific markets and roles; entertainment will not be one of those markets and roles. There is simply too much variety in what people want, how they want it delivered, and when they want it for a single box or for digital only delivery systems to meet everyone's individualized preferences and needs.

    4) Since it seems to be a popular comparison, what Microsoft was wanting to do is nothing like what Steam does. The two big differences are degree and the market being appealed to. In degree of difference, Steam is already pushing what is acceptable to the absolute limits, and Microsoft wanted to go so far beyond that Steam wouldn't even have been visible in the rear view mirror. This would have been bad enough in the PC market that is already tolerant and accepting of light forms of DRM and online authentication, but they wanted to implement in a market that has gained it's market share in large part because it doesn't have to deal with the DRM and other online issues that PC and Steam gamers tend to accept as a part of life.

    In the end, while I certainly haven't seen Sony do anything that makes me of them as having marketing genius, Microsoft just came off as stupid with this entire affair. First, they completely ignored the majority of the console market and what drove that market before announcing their plans. While some markets and sectors will probably end up all digital, entertainment, and console gaming in particular, will not; there are simply too many hurdles and potential complications for it to work well. Second, they clearly had no game plan in place on how to scale back their plans should they find significant resistance, and were forced to completely retreat. This would have me very worried if I was even remotely interested in the XB1 because the probability of seeing these ideas again and again and again until Microsoft finally figures out a decent way to implement them without completely destroying their customer base,or they simply wear down the resistance to the ideas, whichever comes first (my money would be on the latter; I don't see the current crop of MS people having the slightest idea of pull the challenges off),  is very high, and is likely going to be very painful for all involved.

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Vannor
    I'm still getting a PS4.. they only did this because they had no choice. This wasn't because they wanted what was best for the gamers, this has happened because they realised they were digging their own grave.

    I am not getting a PS4 because it had no games for me. If they did not change this policy then I would have gotten no console. It is the games that won me over for Xbox ONE. If I ended up getting a PS4 then I would be an idiot - Lets go buy a PS4 to play no games on it, only to stick it to MS. The Xbox ONE has 9 exclusives that I like the look of, but 0 PS4 ones, plus then there are the multiplatform games - that is the most any new console has offered. I will get a PS4 when they put some games I want.

    In some ways it was good for gamers. You could share games with other people, and reduce the number of games to buy, sharing with one other person, you could buy just half the number of games you want - you buy 5 games, and then your friend buys 5 games, and you both have 10 games to play, now you both have to go and buy 10 games each, so that it is 20 games sold and not 10. And then they still allowed you to trade them in, although not the digital downloaded games, but you could still share them. Now the disc has to be in the drive, and can not share downloaded games = more sales to Microsoft.

    Their policies was not as bad as PC DRM, but better the devil you know (the same as what it is now), and it will keep the Xbox ONE has a retro console in 30 years time.

    You are aware that MS has had two conferences and Sony has only had one so far aren't you? Plus.. most of those XB1 games won't be out until fall 2014, they will not be there for launch. Sony showed their launch games. MS showed almost everything they've got.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by TheMaahes
    Originally posted by Althewiseguy

     

    Too little too late. If they can switch their policies at a whim once they can do it again. Damage is done. 

     

    I think this is the point people are missing. Even though Microsoft now reversed its policies now what prevents them from doing so after it launches once they've earned their profit?

    Nothing lol, because if its this easy to reverse then it would be just as easy to reinstate after they have moved enough units they don't have to worry about backlash. 

     

    I have absolutely no doubt that M$ will bring back all these scrapped "features" eventually, in one form or another.

     

    This complete scrapping of the unpopular policies is only damage control. They clearly realised that they had pushed too far too fast, and too obviously, and they were about to take a hammering in the marketplace.

    Unlike their OS's and Office software, M$ has real competition in the console market. Perhaps they momentarily forgot that they cannot dictate to gamers, because those gamers have a very real alternative: PS4.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    MS will screw xbox1 owners another way.   Backing down on DRM doesn't cut it, they will just add another feature to make it difficult to sell and buy second hand games. Its all about damage limitation ensuring they get better sales over Sony, not about listening to consumers, once they sold their units they got you.
    Originally posted by Althewiseguy
    Originally posted by Adalwulff
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Microsoft will digg for new ways to screw their customers.
    Dont think for a second this company can be trusted.

    Sony all the way.

     

    Did you just say Sony can be trusted?   ...LOL

    Seriously, you guys got some serious issues. Even when Microsoft gives you what you want, you give them no credit at all. I guess haters gunna hate.

    Well there is a lot to hate. The fact that Microsoft even thought their initial pitch of the Xbox 1 was acceptable in any way. Their backtrack was just to try and save their new console from losing out to the competition. If they can get it THAT wrong once. They can do so again. And judging their history they likely will. 

     

    Sony started it, and the patent was going to be just tie the game to your PSN account, and not be able to trade games in at all or share with friends, and Xbox ONE policy was going to be better than PS4, but they just backed out after seeing the lynching MS was getting - MS: We have DRM, Fans: Boo!, Sony: We support used games, Fans: Sony rules, MS sucks.

    I guess Sonys plan to get more sales worked.

    MS will not bother with this again, like double jeopardy, but Sony might do it still, and they will not get as much anger either

    Plus Sony have something else nice in the works too

    Being a Xbox owner since the original Xbox, I have never been screwed by MS at all, and they always do the right thing in the end, Sony on the other hand have screwed the Playstation owners:

    • Updating PSP to remove homebrew possibilities
    • EU not getting HDDs for PS2s
    • Updating PS3s to remove Linux functionaility after approving it inititially making people who bought the machine just for that a waste of money.
    • Sonys behaviour went so far that a group called Anonymous went up against Sony, and the network was hacked in 2011 compromising peoples accounts and payment details
    MS makes mistakes but always corrects them (like here) or suffers a loss from it, like RROD replacing/repairing consoles free of charge past warranty. Sony do not do these things as they do not have the capital to do so, all they do is bow before you in great shame.

    Sorry, Sony has the capital they just didn't implement these things. One company is pretty intelligent while the other isn't. 

    Sony has always had the better hardware and made the better deals. It's why even releasing a year after Xbox 360 and being higher priced that still outsold the 360 in the long run. 

    Microsoft likes to think customers will just take it. Win8 sells have been awful. Xbox 360 couldn't even beat the PS3 with all the advantages it had in the beginning. If they listened to their target audience from the start they could avoid a lot of the fallout that they continue to bring on themselves. 

    I don't think Sony is "For the gamer" but they do have good business sense. They know pissed off gamers aren't likely to open their wallet for them, and not only that but news travels fast when it comes to games and nothing stays secret for very long. 

     

    As far as your Anonymous comments, with the Xbox One Microsoft went far beyond everything Sony has done across all of its products. 

    The Privacy issues, the violation of consumer rights, and so much more have painted a great big bullseye on Microsofts back. What Sony did was considered minor by most and many did not support Anonymous, how many would side with Microsoft should Anonymous attack the Xbox Live servers over issues with the Xbox One especially if the DRM policy hadn't changed?

    Sony have the capitol to do whatever but not enough to go in to a loss to fix their mistakes, which MS have done. Did Sony repair consoles when the PS3 got the yellow light? MS did with Xboxs RROD. They also sold the original Xbox at a loss, and gave out a free power cord with breaker switch. Now they have to undo all their work with xbox ONE. I doubt Sony would have undone the patent if they announced their plans for blocking used games before MS, because it would have been too much work and finance to undo it all

    Sony did not undo any of the PSP or PS3 updates.

    Win 8 has nothing to do with consoles, MS are risky when it comes to PCs and OS, but consoles, they always end up doing the right thing in the end, and the Xbox 360 was the main console that devs wrote for, as there are hardly any games that took advantage of the PS3s better hardware, as the devs just ported the Xbox 360 version. PS3 has only been shining the last year or so, as MS look to Xbox ONE, the first six years was Xbox 360 which shined the most.

    PS3 > PS4 for several more years too, like the PS2 carried on better than PS3 for a while, as the PS4 had no exclusives worth worrying about yet - PS4 interested me with 0 games, Xbox ONE interested with 9 plus the multiplatform ones. The reason being is because MS has more money and able to acquire more exclusives. Sony can not afford it

    The only thing MS can be accused of is hogging the market, but I am not going to get a PS4 so it just looks pretty. The PS3 for me was mostly good for Blu Ray, I have hardly played any games on it at all. Considering I have the PS3 for that still, and probably the Xbox ONE, there will be little to no reason to get PS4, and I might even sell the PS3 to make room for Xbox ONE.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheMaahes
    Originally posted by Althewiseguy

     

    Too little too late. If they can switch their policies at a whim once they can do it again. Damage is done. 

     

    I think this is the point people are missing. Even though Microsoft now reversed its policies now what prevents them from doing so after it launches once they've earned their profit?

    Less likely than Sony, and Sony have already gone there and got a patent. Blocking used games is also on Sonys mind too.

    It is not on Nintendos mind at all

    If you want to avoid any chance of getting DRM on console then go Wii U.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    MS will screw xbox1 owners another way.   Backing down on DRM doesn't cut it, they will just add another feature to make it difficult to sell and buy second hand games. Its all about damage limitation ensuring they get better sales over Sony, not about listening to consumers, once they sold their units they got you.
    Originally posted by Althewiseguy
    Originally posted by Adalwulff
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Microsoft will digg for new ways to screw their customers.
    Dont think for a second this company can be trusted.

    Sony all the way.

     

    Did you just say Sony can be trusted?   ...LOL

    Seriously, you guys got some serious issues. Even when Microsoft gives you what you want, you give them no credit at all. I guess haters gunna hate.

    Well there is a lot to hate. The fact that Microsoft even thought their initial pitch of the Xbox 1 was acceptable in any way. Their backtrack was just to try and save their new console from losing out to the competition. If they can get it THAT wrong once. They can do so again. And judging their history they likely will. 

     

    Sony started it, and the patent was going to be just tie the game to your PSN account, and not be able to trade games in at all or share with friends, and Xbox ONE policy was going to be better than PS4, but they just backed out after seeing the lynching MS was getting - MS: We have DRM, Fans: Boo!, Sony: We support used games, Fans: Sony rules, MS sucks.

    I guess Sonys plan to get more sales worked.

    MS will not bother with this again, like double jeopardy, but Sony might do it still, and they will not get as much anger either

    Plus Sony have something else nice in the works too

    Being a Xbox owner since the original Xbox, I have never been screwed by MS at all, and they always do the right thing in the end, Sony on the other hand have screwed the Playstation owners:

    • Updating PSP to remove homebrew possibilities
    • EU not getting HDDs for PS2s
    • Updating PS3s to remove Linux functionaility after approving it inititially making people who bought the machine just for that a waste of money.
    • Sonys behaviour went so far that a group called Anonymous went up against Sony, and the network was hacked in 2011 compromising peoples accounts and payment details
    MS makes mistakes but always corrects them (like here) or suffers a loss from it, like RROD replacing/repairing consoles free of charge past warranty. Sony do not do these things as they do not have the capital to do so, all they do is bow before you in great shame.

    Sorry, Sony has the capital they just didn't implement these things. One company is pretty intelligent while the other isn't. 

    Sony has always had the better hardware and made the better deals. It's why even releasing a year after Xbox 360 and being higher priced that still outsold the 360 in the long run. 

    Microsoft likes to think customers will just take it. Win8 sells have been awful. Xbox 360 couldn't even beat the PS3 with all the advantages it had in the beginning. If they listened to their target audience from the start they could avoid a lot of the fallout that they continue to bring on themselves. 

    I don't think Sony is "For the gamer" but they do have good business sense. They know pissed off gamers aren't likely to open their wallet for them, and not only that but news travels fast when it comes to games and nothing stays secret for very long. 

     

    As far as your Anonymous comments, with the Xbox One Microsoft went far beyond everything Sony has done across all of its products. 

    The Privacy issues, the violation of consumer rights, and so much more have painted a great big bullseye on Microsofts back. What Sony did was considered minor by most and many did not support Anonymous, how many would side with Microsoft should Anonymous attack the Xbox Live servers over issues with the Xbox One especially if the DRM policy hadn't changed?

    Sony have the capitol to do whatever but not enough to go in to a loss to fix their mistakes, which MS have done. Did Sony repair consoles when the PS3 got the yellow light? MS did with Xboxs RROD. They also sold the original Xbox at a loss, and gave out a free power cord with breaker switch. Now they have to undo all their work with xbox ONE. I doubt Sony would have undone the patent if they announced their plans for blocking used games before MS, because it would have been too much work and finance to undo it all

    Sony did not undo any of the PSP or PS3 updates.

    Win 8 has nothing to do with consoles, MS are risky when it comes to PCs and OS, but consoles, they always end up doing the right thing in the end, and the Xbox 360 was the main console that devs wrote for, as there are hardly any games that took advantage of the PS3s better hardware, as the devs just ported the Xbox 360 version. PS3 has only been shining the last year or so, as MS look to Xbox ONE, the first six years was Xbox 360 which shined the most.

    PS3 > PS4 for several more years too, like the PS2 carried on better than PS3 for a while, as the PS4 had no exclusives worth worrying about yet - PS4 interested me with 0 games, Xbox ONE interested with 9 plus the multiplatform ones. The reason being is because MS has more money and able to acquire more exclusives. Sony can not afford it

    The only thing MS can be accused of is hogging the market, but I am not going to get a PS4 so it just looks pretty. The PS3 for me was mostly good for Blu Ray, I have hardly played any games on it at all. Considering I have the PS3 for that still, and probably the Xbox ONE, there will be little to no reason to get PS4, and I might even sell the PS3 to make room for Xbox ONE.

    MS didn't fix the RROD, they removed the indicator the issue persisted for many they just didn't see the red ring lol. 

     

    In any case, if you want to go for an Xbox One then be my guest but don't confuse preference or personal feelings with fact. 

    The fact of the matter is that Sony has always come out on top in the console wars against Microsoft (Nintendo has been the overall winner but the Wii U doesn't look like it will continue that trend). 

    Without even announcing all of their Exclusives Sony has more. Yes, thats right Sony hasn't even made all of their announcements yet. More announcements are coming from the upcoming Sony event :) (Keep in mind this is in regards to consoles). 

    You can say all you want that the PS3 > PS4 but that has yet to be decided just as this recent move for the Xbox One will be enough to pull it out of the fire is undecided. 

    The above are simply facts. 

     

    MS may have more money but they do not have more exclusives lol... as I said the PS4 has more announced exclusives than the Xbox One as is and they haven't even finished with their reveals. Expect more in August lol... 

     

    The only market MS is hogging is the OS market. 

    I'm sorry, I do appreciate the laughs but... unless you want to discuss the facts of the matter I'm out. I'm not going to debate someones opinion especially when they seem to want to back it up with false statements. 

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Vannor
    I'm still getting a PS4.. they only did this because they had no choice. This wasn't because they wanted what was best for the gamers, this has happened because they realised they were digging their own grave.

    I am not getting a PS4 because it had no games for me. If they did not change this policy then I would have gotten no console. It is the games that won me over for Xbox ONE. If I ended up getting a PS4 then I would be an idiot - Lets go buy a PS4 to play no games on it, only to stick it to MS. The Xbox ONE has 9 exclusives that I like the look of, but 0 PS4 ones, plus then there are the multiplatform games - that is the most any new console has offered. I will get a PS4 when they put some games I want.

    In some ways it was good for gamers. You could share games with other people, and reduce the number of games to buy, sharing with one other person, you could buy just half the number of games you want - you buy 5 games, and then your friend buys 5 games, and you both have 10 games to play, now you both have to go and buy 10 games each, so that it is 20 games sold and not 10. And then they still allowed you to trade them in, although not the digital downloaded games, but you could still share them. Now the disc has to be in the drive, and can not share downloaded games = more sales to Microsoft.

    Their policies was not as bad as PC DRM, but better the devil you know (the same as what it is now), and it will keep the Xbox ONE has a retro console in 30 years time.

    You are aware that MS has had two conferences and Sony has only had one so far aren't you? Plus.. most of those XB1 games won't be out until fall 2014, they will not be there for launch. Sony showed their launch games. MS showed almost everything they've got.

    There are enough for launch still, PS4 still zero. Enough to get a Xbox ONE at launch, and ignore PS4 for longer. Even with DRM I was tempted.

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Vannor
    I'm still getting a PS4.. they only did this because they had no choice. This wasn't because they wanted what was best for the gamers, this has happened because they realised they were digging their own grave.

    I am not getting a PS4 because it had no games for me. If they did not change this policy then I would have gotten no console. It is the games that won me over for Xbox ONE. If I ended up getting a PS4 then I would be an idiot - Lets go buy a PS4 to play no games on it, only to stick it to MS. The Xbox ONE has 9 exclusives that I like the look of, but 0 PS4 ones, plus then there are the multiplatform games - that is the most any new console has offered. I will get a PS4 when they put some games I want.

    In some ways it was good for gamers. You could share games with other people, and reduce the number of games to buy, sharing with one other person, you could buy just half the number of games you want - you buy 5 games, and then your friend buys 5 games, and you both have 10 games to play, now you both have to go and buy 10 games each, so that it is 20 games sold and not 10. And then they still allowed you to trade them in, although not the digital downloaded games, but you could still share them. Now the disc has to be in the drive, and can not share downloaded games = more sales to Microsoft.

    Their policies was not as bad as PC DRM, but better the devil you know (the same as what it is now), and it will keep the Xbox ONE has a retro console in 30 years time.

    You are aware that MS has had two conferences and Sony has only had one so far aren't you? Plus.. most of those XB1 games won't be out until fall 2014, they will not be there for launch. Sony showed their launch games. MS showed almost everything they've got.

    There are enough for launch still, PS4 still zero. Enough to get a Xbox ONE at launch, and ignore PS4 for longer. Even with DRM I was tempted.

    None the xbox exclusives really do it for me. TBH, I'm mostly interested in Destiny and The Division and I'd rather go with the more powerful system if those games don't come to PC. Spark looked interesting but it's not something I'd sit and play for ages.. just something I might like to try once and then be done with it.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy AnchorheadPosts: 2,278Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by GrayGhost79
    Originally posted by superniceguy
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    MS will screw xbox1 owners another way.   Backing down on DRM doesn't cut it, they will just add another feature to make it difficult to sell and buy second hand games. Its all about damage limitation ensuring they get better sales over Sony, not about listening to consumers, once they sold their units they got you.
    Originally posted by Althewiseguy
    Originally posted by Adalwulff
    Originally posted by Mothanos

    Microsoft will digg for new ways to screw their customers.
    Dont think for a second this company can be trusted.

    Sony all the way.

     

    Did you just say Sony can be trusted?   ...LOL

    Seriously, you guys got some serious issues. Even when Microsoft gives you what you want, you give them no credit at all. I guess haters gunna hate.

    Well there is a lot to hate. The fact that Microsoft even thought their initial pitch of the Xbox 1 was acceptable in any way. Their backtrack was just to try and save their new console from losing out to the competition. If they can get it THAT wrong once. They can do so again. And judging their history they likely will. 

     

    Sony started it, and the patent was going to be just tie the game to your PSN account, and not be able to trade games in at all or share with friends, and Xbox ONE policy was going to be better than PS4, but they just backed out after seeing the lynching MS was getting - MS: We have DRM, Fans: Boo!, Sony: We support used games, Fans: Sony rules, MS sucks.

    I guess Sonys plan to get more sales worked.

    MS will not bother with this again, like double jeopardy, but Sony might do it still, and they will not get as much anger either

    Plus Sony have something else nice in the works too

    Being a Xbox owner since the original Xbox, I have never been screwed by MS at all, and they always do the right thing in the end, Sony on the other hand have screwed the Playstation owners:

    • Updating PSP to remove homebrew possibilities
    • EU not getting HDDs for PS2s
    • Updating PS3s to remove Linux functionaility after approving it inititially making people who bought the machine just for that a waste of money.
    • Sonys behaviour went so far that a group called Anonymous went up against Sony, and the network was hacked in 2011 compromising peoples accounts and payment details
    MS makes mistakes but always corrects them (like here) or suffers a loss from it, like RROD replacing/repairing consoles free of charge past warranty. Sony do not do these things as they do not have the capital to do so, all they do is bow before you in great shame.

    Sorry, Sony has the capital they just didn't implement these things. One company is pretty intelligent while the other isn't. 

    Sony has always had the better hardware and made the better deals. It's why even releasing a year after Xbox 360 and being higher priced that still outsold the 360 in the long run. 

    Microsoft likes to think customers will just take it. Win8 sells have been awful. Xbox 360 couldn't even beat the PS3 with all the advantages it had in the beginning. If they listened to their target audience from the start they could avoid a lot of the fallout that they continue to bring on themselves. 

    I don't think Sony is "For the gamer" but they do have good business sense. They know pissed off gamers aren't likely to open their wallet for them, and not only that but news travels fast when it comes to games and nothing stays secret for very long. 

     

    As far as your Anonymous comments, with the Xbox One Microsoft went far beyond everything Sony has done across all of its products. 

    The Privacy issues, the violation of consumer rights, and so much more have painted a great big bullseye on Microsofts back. What Sony did was considered minor by most and many did not support Anonymous, how many would side with Microsoft should Anonymous attack the Xbox Live servers over issues with the Xbox One especially if the DRM policy hadn't changed?

    Sony have the capitol to do whatever but not enough to go in to a loss to fix their mistakes, which MS have done. Did Sony repair consoles when the PS3 got the yellow light? MS did with Xboxs RROD. They also sold the original Xbox at a loss, and gave out a free power cord with breaker switch. Now they have to undo all their work with xbox ONE. I doubt Sony would have undone the patent if they announced their plans for blocking used games before MS, because it would have been too much work and finance to undo it all

    Sony did not undo any of the PSP or PS3 updates.

    Win 8 has nothing to do with consoles, MS are risky when it comes to PCs and OS, but consoles, they always end up doing the right thing in the end, and the Xbox 360 was the main console that devs wrote for, as there are hardly any games that took advantage of the PS3s better hardware, as the devs just ported the Xbox 360 version. PS3 has only been shining the last year or so, as MS look to Xbox ONE, the first six years was Xbox 360 which shined the most.

    PS3 > PS4 for several more years too, like the PS2 carried on better than PS3 for a while, as the PS4 had no exclusives worth worrying about yet - PS4 interested me with 0 games, Xbox ONE interested with 9 plus the multiplatform ones. The reason being is because MS has more money and able to acquire more exclusives. Sony can not afford it

    The only thing MS can be accused of is hogging the market, but I am not going to get a PS4 so it just looks pretty. The PS3 for me was mostly good for Blu Ray, I have hardly played any games on it at all. Considering I have the PS3 for that still, and probably the Xbox ONE, there will be little to no reason to get PS4, and I might even sell the PS3 to make room for Xbox ONE.

    MS didn't fix the RROD, they removed the indicator the issue persisted for many they just didn't see the red ring lol. 

     

    In any case, if you want to go for an Xbox One then be my guest but don't confuse preference or personal feelings with fact. 

    The fact of the matter is that Sony has always come out on top in the console wars against Microsoft (Nintendo has been the overall winner but the Wii U doesn't look like it will continue that trend). 

    Without even announcing all of their Exclusives Sony has more. Yes, thats right Sony hasn't even made all of their announcements yet. More announcements are coming from the upcoming Sony event :) 

    You can say all you want that the PS3 > PS4 but that has yet to be decided just as this recent move for the Xbox One will be enough to pull it out of the fire is undecided. 

    The above are simply facts. 

     

    MS may have more money but they do not have more exclusives lol... as I said the PS4 has more announced exclusives than the Xbox One as is and they haven't even finished with their reveals. Expect more in August lol... 

     

    The only market MS is hogging is the OS market. 

    I'm sorry, I do appreciate the laughs but... unless you want to discuss the facts of the matter I'm out. I'm not going to debate someones opinion especially when they seem to want to back it up with false statements. 

    I am choosing Xbox ONE because of FACT and not personal feelings.

    I started with PS2, and I was even in the official beta testing of online PS2 games, and I was reluctant with getting Xbox, and even bought Obi-Wan first before Halo, but I have pleased with what MS have done with the Xbox, and they keep hitting the right notes with me with what they do. Sony and the Playstation have not. fact is Xbox did online gaming far better than Playstation do.

    I hate green, and I like Blue, I also think the Xbox 360 is not very well designed hardware and software (OS) wise vs PS3 but the Xbox has more games I like, and MS does well to it owners.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vannor
    I'm still getting a PS4.. they only did this because they had no choice. This wasn't because they wanted what was best for the gamers, this has happened because they realised they were digging their own grave.

    Sorry to burst Your bubble, but Sony was actually the one that started it all! With DRM and no second hand sale.

    There was a big uproar and backlash in the media about it in the months towards the PS4 actual announcement and Sony kept silent and didn´t say anything about it.

    Then Microsoft announced the XBOX One, came With 1 time per day online and secondhand game sell restrictions, causing anger and generating a backlash.

    And lo and behold.... suddenly Sony jumped on the "Microsoft is Evil" bandwagon, dishing their initial plans, saying you can always play offline, no secondhand sale restrictions on PS4, etc.

    And ofcourse.... now Microsoft had no Choice but to abandon those plans as well.

    This to the utmost displeasure of game giants like EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc who are actually the ones behind this all who tried to push the Console manufacturers to come up with all this stuff to stop pirating, second hand sales, etc.

  • SulaaSulaa nPosts: 1,151Member Common
    Mandatory Kinect is still there.  Nuff said.
  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sulaa
    Mandatory Kinect is still there.  Nuff said.

    And you think you don´t need the PS Move camera to make "full" use of the console?

    Come on now! Who is kididng who!  It´s nothing but a marketing ploy by Sony to undercut the XBOX One.

    At least Microsoft is honest and just sell the XBOX One + Kinect as a single package.

    If you can wait a few months.... prices will come Down by a 100 bucks. Always has, always will.

    I have the XBOX 360 and I will wait at least a couple months after XBOX One launch before buying one.

    Most upcoming PS4/XB1 games won´t release before Q2 2014 anyway.

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Vannor
    I'm still getting a PS4.. they only did this because they had no choice. This wasn't because they wanted what was best for the gamers, this has happened because they realised they were digging their own grave.

    Sorry to burst Your bubble, but Sony was actually the one that started it all! With DRM and no second hand sale.

    There was a big uproar and backlash in the media about it in the months towards the PS4 actual announcement and Sony kept silent and didn´t say anything about it.

    Then Microsoft announced the XBOX One, came With 1 time per day online and secondhand game sell restrictions, causing anger and generating a backlash.

    And lo and behold.... suddenly Sony jumped on the "Microsoft is Evil" bandwagon, dishing their initial plans, saying you can always play offline, no secondhand sale restrictions on PS4, etc.

    And ofcourse.... now Microsoft had no Choice but to abandon those plans as well.

    This to the utmost displeasure of game giants like EA, Ubisoft, Activision, etc who are actually the ones behind this all who tried to push the Console manufacturers to come up with all this stuff to stop pirating, second hand sales, etc.

    Sony made the announcement they weren't adding the DRM almost right after filing the patent. The backlash was long before E3 and Sony cleared things up long before Microsoft announced its DRM. Just wanted to clear that up. They didn't jump on the bandwagon, they were already put there when fans were in an uproar over them simply filing the patent lol. 

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Sulaa
    Mandatory Kinect is still there.  Nuff said.

    And you think you don´t need the PS Move camera to make "full" use of the console?

    Come on now! Who is kididng who!  It´s nothing but a marketing ploy by Sony to undercut the XBOX One.

    At least Microsoft is honest and just sell the XBOX One + Kinect as a single package.

    If you can wait a few months.... prices will come Down by a 100 bucks. Always has, always will.

    I have the XBOX 360 and I will wait at least a couple months after XBOX One launch before buying one.

    Most upcoming PS4/XB1 games won´t release before Q2 2014 anyway.

    There is a difference between needing a PS move camera to make "full" use of the console vs. a mandatory kinect. I can play at least most games without the camera on the PS4. I can't play any games without the Kinect. Difference is pretty clear. 

    Even with the PS Move camera the PS4 comes out cheaper by about $50. 

    You are correct, prices will come down on both consoles... Always has and always will. I'm not sure how that makes the Xbox One cheaper though considering both consoles will see a price drop. 

  • XzenXzen Los Alamos, NMPosts: 2,607Member Common
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Sulaa
    Mandatory Kinect is still there.  Nuff said.

    And you think you don´t need the PS Move camera to make "full" use of the console?

    Come on now! Who is kididng who!  It´s nothing but a marketing ploy by Sony to undercut the XBOX One.

    At least Microsoft is honest and just sell the XBOX One + Kinect as a single package.

    If you can wait a few months.... prices will come Down by a 100 bucks. Always has, always will.

    I have the XBOX 360 and I will wait at least a couple months after XBOX One launch before buying one.

    Most upcoming PS4/XB1 games won´t release before Q2 2014 anyway.

    No you don't need a move to make "full" use of the console. The sales figures of the move and kinect indicate that there are not very many people  interested in it. Sure the Wii sold well because of the technology but the novelty has wore off. It doesn't make sense to force it on everyone and make your console more expensive, when there is so little interest in it.

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