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Smedley: if they want linear and coddled then they can play a lot of other games

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  • DejoblueDejoblue Youngstown, OHPosts: 296Member Uncommon

    The things people have to get out of their heads is this comparison to WoW. It is not going to happen. You can't chase that ghost forever.

    What HAS happened is EVE reaching a sustained 400K and now 500K subscriber base that is relentless and catered to and for "hardcore" players.

    500K SUBSCRIBERS, IE they pay $15/month, unlike SOE games.

    Add to that not having to develop CONTENT that gets eaten up and ONLY having to develop new tools and BALANCE game elements and you have what Smedley sees and what is most likely the key points that got this green lit by Sony.

     

    We give them the tools, we make the rules, they make the content.

     

    EQ is pulling down whatever it has, I think it is purported to be 400K "active" accounts. And EQ2 has whatever, let's assume something similar for arguments sake. And here we go. A game built on this new engine that is specifically made to iterate and build quickly  with and we do not have to make the content.

    I am sure the push is at minimum an expectation of EQ/EQ2 numbers(considering EVE's massive sub base) and low development cost post launch.

     

    This does not have to be complete lack of content, EVE still has an overarching story line and has PVE content and I am sure EQN will too, and raids as well, but it will not have to be as often and can be directed by the players more, especially if given the tools.

    And by tools I am talking like Valve tools, Garry'sMOD tools, Starcraft 2 and WC3 toolsets. Among many other systems.

     

    EQ and EQ2 fans can stay in their old games. They may be mad that they do not get a specific themepark graphic or system update, or they may love EQN, we will see, but the option is always there for them to go back.

     

    This means EQN does NOT have to cater to the old EQ/EQ2 crowd. It can be it's own thing. It can be hardcore. It doesnt have to be as hardcore as EVE.

    SOE has stuck to their guns over and over again with very bad decisions. With that in mind I think they can weather the storm of EQN being a hardcore sandbox FFA PVP EVE clone. I doubt it will be that extreme, but many of you naysayers have said it yourselves and despite their massive failings, they are still here and still profitable. And even with a paltry 500K unWoWish playerbase it will survive.

  • killahhkillahh calgary, ABPosts: 437Member

     

    ohn Smedley John Smedley ‏@j_smedley 16h

    @PoeticStanziel @salty21db @KareesMoonshade if they want linear and coddled then they can play a lot of other games.

     

     

    my hero, please Smedly,  live up to these words.

     

    <p footer="" cfpostactions"="">ReplyAdd Multi-QuoteQuote

     

    Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member

    They not only don't have to cater to the EQ/EQ2 crowd, but it would be naive to even go into development with that in mind.

    For one, the EQ and EQ2 crowds are different and want completely different things. Not to mention that hardcore base in those games are stubborn and only want something done a certain way and if they don't get it, they won't play it. Then there are those that played EQ and EQ2 and quit. Those people definitely want something different than what either EQ or EQ2 currently has. So which of these people in the EQ franchise player base do they conform to? They can't please all of them, or probably even a small percentage of them. They certainly can't please any of them and expect to grow their player base past the number players EQ and EQ2 already has.

  • killahhkillahh calgary, ABPosts: 437Member

    the trick is not to make a game to draw from anything, its to follow your dream as a dev, and make the game you want, then have the people flood in.

     ultima online

    everquest

    dark age of camelot

    eve online

     these were the gamechangers, and they followed their vision. not what would sucker in the most subs.

     

     

     

    Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,424Member Uncommon

    That dude said it NEEDS pvp to drive the economy and Smedley agreed whole heartedly ..LMAO.

    That alone should tell you he does not have a grasp for gaming what so ever,i think he has been hanging out with his family in his mansion not gaming at all.

    Probably the best or worst,definitely the most incredibly fluctuating economy i have ever seen,nothing even came  close was in FFXI.Guess what the game is PVE,shows what they know.Also in the beginning of Vanguard i quit because cheats were early on owning the AH it was a big factor.Also in the start of EQ2 when you had to craft mats and it was a bit tough to get the top gear on the AH it was a booming economy,so i have no idea what Smedley has been smoking but he definitely doesn't have a clue ,even with his own games.

    Then do i really need to remind people of the SWG ordeal?I think it is important because it shows he doesn't know his own game nor does he listen.

    Also what has he done beside make linear and coddle gaming?When you step into EQ2 what do you do beside run from yellow marker to yellow marker?

    Also one more point on the economy idea.When you make half the valuable drops soul bound,that does NOT help the economy,instead what it did was create an exploiting community that was sitting on the loot drop selling it in chat spam.

    Seriously,when i look over how this guy thinks,he doesn't think.


    Samoan Diamond

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,852Member Uncommon
    I'm sure the PvP crowd will enjoy the PvP servers and the PvE crowd will love the PvE servers with consensual flagging.

    Yes, I'm assuming

    Yes, most of us are

    No, that twitter comment does not make EQN have PvP on all servers.

    I do love the melodrama though, that does remind me of PvP :)
  • barasawabarasawa Eugene, ORPosts: 272Member Uncommon
    Sorry folks, but I've had a policy of pretty much ignoring everything Smedley says and does since he threw that hissy fit in EQ many years ago. 

    Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Originally posted by killahh

    the trick is not to make a game to draw from anything, its to follow your dream as a dev, and make the game you want, then have the people flood in.

     ultima online

    everquest

    dark age of camelot

    eve online

     these were the gamechangers, and they followed their vision. not what would sucker in the most subs.

    Yep, I completely agree. SOE was making the game that was going to try and cater to the EQ/EQ2 crowd, they had a developer roundtable all about it, and then they scrapped it. Everything Smedley has indicated has been that their goal is to make a game that will be a game changer for the MMORPG genre.

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    I'm sure the PvP crowd will enjoy the PvP servers and the PvE crowd will love the PvE servers with consensual flagging.

    Yes, I'm assuming

    Yes, most of us are

    No, that twitter comment does not make EQN have PvP on all servers.

    I do love the melodrama though, that does remind me of PvP :)

    I am not convinced there will be servers, plural. If when Smedley calls EQNext the largest sandbox game ever developed, he means world size, then there is no choice but to create one megaserver.

  • EhliyaEhliya Washington, DCPosts: 199Member

    Full loot open world PVP as a concept would work if this was only one of many things people occupied themselves with.  

    The problem is always that the PVPers end up: a) spending 100 percent of their time attacking everyone they see; b) end up driving away all the other players.  Since PVP is competitive, you also have tons of problems with dupes, hacks, exploits, etc. since people with that mindset are likelier to do whatever it takes to win.

    Full loot open world PVP servers tend to resemble a circle of Hell where all the mass murderers go.  I doubt any company can build a profitable economic model off players whose main pleasure comes from emptying the game of other players.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by Dudehog
    Originally posted by DocBrody
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    the largest created hype ship I've seen since the TORtanic.

    didn't this hype ship sink much earlier,  I think by the time people realized it's going to be full themepark?

     

     

    The hype ended in the initial announcement of the game when Bioware said they were going to focus on story and bragged about how having full voiceovers was going to change the industry.

    I was telling everyone this back then, and I was shouted down across the board.  The secret to understanding the marketing speak in these games, is listening to what they're NOT saying.  TOR was talking about story this, story that, and nothing else. I knew from their official announcement on that it was going to suck.  I even tried to like it at launch. 

     

     

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    I think for the PvP, they just need to take the flagging system from SWG.  Opt-in world PvP rules, and enough people enjoy it that it not only makes the game more interesting for everyone, but it often encourages PvE players to join in when battles are going on.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,852Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by Aelious
    I'm sure the PvP crowd will enjoy the PvP servers and the PvE crowd will love the PvE servers with consensual flagging.

    Yes, I'm assuming

    Yes, most of us are

    No, that twitter comment does not make EQN have PvP on all servers.

    I do love the melodrama though, that does remind me of PvP :)

    I am not convinced there will be servers, plural. If when Smedley calls EQNext the largest sandbox game ever developed, he means world size, then there is no choice but to create one megaserver.

     

    They can do that but it won't work like EvE, more like ESO where there is internal filtering as to who is around you.  Even then I think there would be two seperate megaservers.  I think EQN will be innovative but PvP isn't any more innovative than PvE is and for many people they are diametrically opposed from one another.  I would be absolutely shocked if EQN was open world PvP in all areas for all servers outside of cities.

     

    Personally I would love having areas of open PvP throughout the world like the hide of a cow.  Plenty of room for both activites and I think it's the only way you could have both without cutting 60% of your potential playerbase.

  • MagiknightMagiknight McKinleyville, CAPosts: 782Member
    I hope it has difficult PVE
  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,556Member Uncommon

    The only type of PvP I tolerate is open world PvP that has consequences.  Rock on SOE...things are looking good!

     

    I'm primarily a PvE person so I do hope they have some of the PvE depth that EQ1 had as well.

     

    Open world PvP and difficult deep PvE...sign me up.  It seems that most sandboxes have skipped the deep meaningful, challenging PvE part which I hope they don't with EQN.  There's no reason you can't have open world consequence ridden PvP with complex difficult PvE.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,901Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Bidwood

    it will be non-consensual PVP. The key is that guy's statement about how the economy in a sandbox can't be healthy unless there's open-world PVP. If people can opt out, the economy will take a dive.

     

    SOE can afford to take this risk because the game will be on PS4. Most console multi-player is PVP-centric, so even if all the PC gamers head for the hills they will still make crazy profit. However I'm thinking they designed this PVP in such a way that it fits in with the other game systems and is fun. Darkfall had good open-world PVP, but many players were turned off by the lack of substance in the other pillars of the game.

    nope, sorry, not buying it.

    As I said, they arent' going to make a game with this amount of effort and money without giving primarily pve players an alternative.

    Just not going to happen. There will be "something". Like I said, it will be an alternate continent or alternate server but "something".

     

    All they really need to do is add a system like Pre-cu SWG had. A system that supports open world PVP with an opt out function as well as a mercenary function (no need to pick sides). Open guild warring for the hardcore types, and Factional PVP triggers.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • chaintmchaintm Chicago, ILPosts: 972Member

    SWG was never open world pvp except on two servers, and most servers where Flag yourself for pvp and it could be done anywhere. If you consider open world pvp flagging yourself then fine, most see open world pvp as no choice. We had choices, SWG did in it's day define a true sandbox and fans of starwars actually enjoyed the game. Why didn't it really take off during the time? Well you have to think back to when swg was released and the true population on MMO's, it was just starting. SWG was a new idea on the old eq formula, hell they even took map layouts from eq and added new skins, I remember seeing the deserts of ro within the first 10min of swg opening day.

    Point being, pvp sure, limited building, crafting and gains to pvp only = death to the community. None have EVER been able to substain a good population (that over 500k ) going this rout, people want choices and many don't have time to defend their stuff, join and uber guild to defend their stuff etc.

    SWG's failure was poor code design (constant bug issues till the end) and to many chances to "get more main stream players" , that killed what population did play and from there just demised to it's own end for bad choices that where finally admitted  years later.

    When it comes down to true open world pvp, the people that want that open stuff want to take the stuff, so be it, if you get your own server with such rules you complain it rips the community apart. I say, it shows what the community really wants. I want pvp in my games, I want to choose when I participate, to this day DAOC was my all time top pvp mmo, if they make eq next with the same concept as swg was with pvp or even daoc, I would be in haven, probably allot of people would.

    I don't see SOE EVER looking for the smaller crowed in a game that cost a good amount to make, take PS2, I played it, I hated everything about it, so did most of the vets, they are FINALLY adding in things that make sense like holding bases and more, but it took the community to say "yeah, this really sucks this way" , I hated Smedly back in the day, however whatever has happened with his change in thinking is for the better, PS2 has shown this to me, so I do have some faith in this title.

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member

    The more I think about TenTonHammer and MMORPG.com giving it their best of show from E3 (And who knows how many other websites were shown that didnt make their posts about if they like or disliked what they saw yet) is that I think something has drastically changed in the MMO World or atleast, the Everquest world. Think about it.. What would SURPRISE you? Because people are blown away surprised at the ideas they heard and seeing it employed and what they saw behind those closed doors at E3. You think just being able to have some highest level spell of meteor to damage the world is what they added? I think it'll be polarizing whatever they did, and for the better. Yeah I'm sure you can do your typical grind monsters EQ type stuff, but think about it.. Something SIGNIFICANT has to be coming August 2nd. They are MAD that we can't know what they saw because they know how much we'll like it

     

    For better or for worse, something polarizing is going to be released August 2nd, and it sounds like it's for the better

  • jonrd463jonrd463 Tacoma, WAPosts: 598Member

    I'm all for full loot, open PVP.

    On it's own server, so like-minded folks can feel free to go all Lord of the Flies on eachother.

    Me, I'll probably be on whatever server caters to the RP crowd.

    "You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  • SpellforgedSpellforged Belvidere, ILPosts: 458Member
    I thought most of you would've learned your lesson by now.  You can't trust Smedley as he's nothing but a PR machine that will tell you whatever you want to hear.  Wait until the game has some real footage available before jumping on the fanboy bandwagon.

    image
  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by Ujirik
    I thought most of you would've learned your lesson by now.  You can't trust Smedley as he's nothing but a PR machine that will tell you whatever you want to hear.  Wait until the game has some real footage available before jumping on the fanboy bandwagon.

    I don't know, MMORPG.com and TenTonHammer gave Everquest Next their best in show "hands down" at E3. That's not even a "ehh, close" HANDS. DOWN. no contest. And there is strong reason to believe besides the World and Lore, it will be a significantly different experience than Everquest 1/2 and all the other MMOS that have released the past 5-6 years. Its not like its like "Well, this is a well done MMORPG that might succeed for a year" from what these reviews sound like,its like "OMFGGGG NO WAY THIS IS SO AWESOME"

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,901Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chaintm

    SWG was never open world pvp except on two servers, and most servers where Flag yourself for pvp and it could be done anywhere. If you consider open world pvp flagging yourself then fine, most see open world pvp as no choice. We had choices, SWG did in it's day define a true sandbox and fans of starwars actually enjoyed the game. Why didn't it really take off during the time? Well you have to think back to when swg was released and the true population on MMO's, it was just starting. SWG was a new idea on the old eq formula, hell they even took map layouts from eq and added new skins, I remember seeing the deserts of ro within the first 10min of swg opening day.

    Point being, pvp sure, limited building, crafting and gains to pvp only = death to the community. None have EVER been able to substain a good population (that over 500k ) going this rout, people want choices and many don't have time to defend their stuff, join and uber guild to defend their stuff etc.

    SWG's failure was poor code design (constant bug issues till the end) and to many chances to "get more main stream players" , that killed what population did play and from there just demised to it's own end for bad choices that where finally admitted  years later.

    When it comes down to true open world pvp, the people that want that open stuff want to take the stuff, so be it, if you get your own server with such rules you complain it rips the community apart. I say, it shows what the community really wants. I want pvp in my games, I want to choose when I participate, to this day DAOC was my all time top pvp mmo, if they make eq next with the same concept as swg was with pvp or even daoc, I would be in haven, probably allot of people would.

    I don't see SOE EVER looking for the smaller crowed in a game that cost a good amount to make, take PS2, I played it, I hated everything about it, so did most of the vets, they are FINALLY adding in things that make sense like holding bases and more, but it took the community to say "yeah, this really sucks this way" , I hated Smedly back in the day, however whatever has happened with his change in thinking is for the better, PS2 has shown this to me, so I do have some faith in this title.

    The only people who had a choice to never PVP (pre-cu) were those who were neutral faction. SWG originally had systems in place that created no choice PVP situations for faction aligned players(TEFS, group TEFs, Faction alignment scanners ETC). Not to mention the BH/Jedi system. As for faction members all it took was to kill one IMP/REB NPC and you were open to attack from any imperial/Rebel near you.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • GroovyFlowerGroovyFlower RdamPosts: 1,245Member
    Originally posted by Ujirik
    I thought most of you would've learned your lesson by now.  You can't trust Smedley as he's nothing but a PR machine that will tell you whatever you want to hear.  Wait until the game has some real footage available before jumping on the fanboy bandwagon.

    I thought you would have learn your lesson by now. It's like talking to concrete wall, majority here on this forum like hyping and listend to untrust worthy persons like smedley, they jump on the fanboy bandwagon as fast as they can, waste of time telling them there wrong hehe.

  • AkulasAkulas GoldcoastPosts: 1,615Member Uncommon
    Guess I'll be playing a scout class if it's pvp

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by GroovyFlower
    Originally posted by Ujirik
    I thought most of you would've learned your lesson by now.  You can't trust Smedley as he's nothing but a PR machine that will tell you whatever you want to hear.  Wait until the game has some real footage available before jumping on the fanboy bandwagon.

    I thought you would have learn your lesson by now. It's like talking to concrete wall, majority here on this forum like hyping and listend to untrust worthy persons like smedley, they jump on the fanboy bandwagon as fast as they can, waste of time telling them there wrong hehe.

    But.. you're on the forum of the website that put Everquest Next as best in show hands down at E3?

     

    How ironic, posting on the site that is hyping up Everquest Next and saying it's amazing.

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