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Microsoft just dropped DRM

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  • Sal1Sal1 Twin Cities, MNPosts: 181Member Uncommon
    And what about Microsofts used game policy? I do not like it and will not buy the Xbox One because of this.
  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,091Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sal1
    And what about Microsofts used game policy? I do not like it and will not buy the Xbox One because of this.

     

     

    That's been changed. You will be able to buy, sell and trade just like you have been doing for years.

    Raptr Gamercard
  • DoomedfoxDoomedfox Elmhurts, NYPosts: 685Member Common

    I am glad for the ppl who had concerns about being able to play there games in areas where they do not have an internet connection.

    I still hope that the initial setup (for which it seems you still need to connect) will be a good way to stop pirating tho.

    I still will get a PS4 first tho the DRM never concerned me to begin with so the changes dont matter to me .

    If they would let me power down the Kinect (and i mean really power it down not a standby mode that can be overwritten anytime) i would considered getting the Ps4 and a Xbox1 at release till than itsa PS4 only.

  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,091Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by darkhalf357x
    It would have killed their sales and their image.  Still going to hack it like I did my 360.

     

     

    This is the reason why they wanted the 24 Hour Authentication Check.

     It still wouldn't have stopped it, the connection process can be spoofed which is how all cloud based games have been hacked. Just look at ONlive lol.

     

    What happened with Onlive? I thought that service died awhile back.

    Raptr Gamercard
  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by ABRaquel
    It's really a shame that they gutted the Family Share plan. It was one of the things that was making me really interested in it.

     

    I think maybe down the road this feature will return. They should just make it so that you must be online to use this feature. That way its a choice for people who want to use it and nonthing is forced.

    If they had pushed reasons for having DRM and benefits of being always online instead of saying you HAVE to do this and you'll like it or you can buy a 360 instead!!!  they may of garnered more support.MS only has their own arrogance and marketing to blame.

    Also I think they are kinda acting like petulant children right now instead of finding compromise like only using constant DRM checks for games that a user has got through sharing instead of purchasing for example,they are saying FINE no DRM checks and no used games restrictions but we are taking our toys and going home!!!

  • Shatter30Shatter30 Waterford, MIPosts: 485Member Uncommon
    Damage is done, this is going to continue to be a huge blemish on Microsoft for a long time.  It also shows the gamers(you and me) that Microsoft wants control vs providing gamers what they want, they clearly don't care.  The only reason they reversed this was because of the poor pre-sales in comparison to Sony, if the pre-sales weren't poor but people complained nonetheless they wouldn't of made these changes. 
  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by darkhalf357x
    It would have killed their sales and their image.  Still going to hack it like I did my 360.

     

     

    This is the reason why they wanted the 24 Hour Authentication Check.

     It still wouldn't have stopped it, the connection process can be spoofed which is how all cloud based games have been hacked. Just look at ONlive lol.

     

    What happened with Onlive? I thought that service died awhile back.

     awhile back? its only been going for 3 years. they found a way to hack their service, though some of it has been fixed, people keep finding a way to play games without paying for them and even cheating on the games.

    anyway im done posting for the night...this James Gandolfini news I stumbled across got me down to the point im feeling the need to drink.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,091Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shatter30
    Damage is done, this is going to continue to be a huge blemish on Microsoft for a long time.  It also shows the gamers(you and me) that Microsoft wants control vs providing gamers what they want, they clearly don't care.  The only reason they reversed this was because of the poor pre-sales in comparison to Sony, if the pre-sales weren't poor but people complained nonetheless they wouldn't of made these changes. 

     

     

    Saying the damage is done is just crazy when these systems are not even out yet. I remember back when Xbox 360 was launching everybody thought it would be a flop and would get destroyed by PS3 and look how that turned out. . Even before this announcement today Xbox One was the #1 Video Game item on Amazon even ahead of The Last Of Us which may become a record breaker if it keeps selling the way its doing. I know the PS4 has been doing better but just pointing out that the system has still been selling strong though preorders and now with this news its only going to boost it more.

    Raptr Gamercard
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    BTW, those of you who are stoked about this change should probably go read up on it.  The Xbox One lost a bunch of, what I consider, neat and modern features because of this change.Hopefully they will eventually make it all work.  I, for one, liked the idea of cloud-stored game collections and whatnot.  From what I am reading right now, that's gone.Here's an article... and check out the mixed reactions in the comments:http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/19/microsoft-heeds-gamer-feedback-dumps-xbox-one-drm-restrictions/

    None of those "modern features" depended on the 24 hour check in or the DRM on game discs. There isn't anything that the XBox1 could do before that it can't do now, and there isn't anything that the XBox1 could do that the PS4 wasn't capable of doing. The DRM and 24 hour check in was a policy decision, not a technical decision.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • RecoreRecore Posts: 5,091Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Mannish
    Originally posted by darkhalf357x
    It would have killed their sales and their image.  Still going to hack it like I did my 360.

     

     

    This is the reason why they wanted the 24 Hour Authentication Check.

     It still wouldn't have stopped it, the connection process can be spoofed which is how all cloud based games have been hacked. Just look at ONlive lol.

     

    What happened with Onlive? I thought that service died awhile back.

     awhile back? its only been going for 3 years. they found a way to hack their service, though some of it has been fixed, people keep finding a way to play games without paying for them and even cheating on the games.

    anyway im done posting for the night...this James Gandolfini news I stumbled across got me down to the point im feeling the need to drink.

     

     

    I know its been going for around 3 years because I was a beta tester for Onlive. I thought I read somewhere that it was bought out by some company and afther that I never heard anything about it again.

    Raptr Gamercard
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Quizzical As compared to a PS4, Microsoft has moved from trying to charge more for inferior hardware with crippling DRM to trying to charge more for inferior hardware without crippling DRM.  That's process of sorts, but so long as they're trying to charge more for inferior hardware, I don't see a bright future for the Xbox One.
    How much more so is the XB1 inferior to the PS4?  You had a recent thread comparing the two that I found rather unconvincing.  Mostly what I got out of that thread was the PS4 has the potential for more graphics power on paper, but the practical differences are miniscule.

    Both are offering overpriced inferior hardware for what you could build yourself.  By your reasoning neither have a bright future.  Since we know consoles are successful I would have to conclude your conclusion is flawed.  The price difference between the two is only about $40 when you consider the bare bones PS4 offering doesn't have it's version of the camera and kinect included.  They both have abysmally small outdated (I mean due to the size, not the hardware generation) hard drives at 500GB.

    I see a bright future for both really.  Not likely one which I'll be a part of until the price makes more sense, but they both have room to compete and succeed.  This won't be a one or the other sort of war.  Possibly the only loser in this could be Nintendo as its platform seems shadowed by these two.  The only thing Nintendo really has to offer now is the IP specific catalog.




    The PS4 has ram that is a generation newer, and more ram will be available to the games that are running. The PS4 has better graphics hardware as well, which means while it may have the same graphics features, it will be able to push more polygons on the screen, and it will be able to push them faster than the XB1. Since the PS4 isn't installing games to the HDD, more HDD space will be available for downloadable content without having to upgrade the HDD with an external HDD.

    The PS4 has better hardware.

    The only thing missing is the Kinect, and if you buy the Sony version of the Kinect device, you will still spend less money than what you would spend on the XB1.

    You are right in that the end result may be negligible. Someone playing the same game on both consoles may not notice a difference. That doesn't matter when it comes to actually buying a device though. People are going to go with brand loyalty, or they are going to go with the console that has the exclusive games they want, or they are going to compare the hardware. In the first two cases, the decision is already made. In the last case, the PS4 wins. The last case is how the XB360 won in the previous generation and it's how the PS4 is going to win in this generation.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Vannor
    Originally posted by lizardbones
    Microsoft's plan was to have additional content available on other devices.
    And they can't do that now because.....?


    They can do that now. I assume they can anyway. I shouldn't have used the past tense.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • proxy42086proxy42086 Nashville, TNPosts: 29Member
    how will they justify the $100 price cut if they try to do it? " Uh our bad we miscalculated teh cost?
  • Punk999Punk999 Baytown, TXPosts: 873Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by proxy42086
    how will they justify the $100 price cut if they try to do it? " Uh our bad we miscalculated teh cost?

    They cant cut the price because of Kinect.

    "Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
    ^MMORPG.com

  • Jadedangel1Jadedangel1 Newark, NJPosts: 184Member
    Originally posted by Jorl
    Originally posted by Jadedangel1
    Originally posted by Althewiseguy

     

    Too little too late. If they can switch their policies at a whim once they can do it again. Damage is done. 

    This is my thought on it. Not that I was planning on getting a X1 anyway, but if I was, I would be concerned that they would re-implement those features after initial sales of the unit. With everything digital on the box, its only a matter of them "flicking a switch" on their side anyway once the sheep shell out their money.

    I'd be exactly the same. But you will find those out there now who are thinking... "Yay! now am gonna buy x1 coz dey changed it".

    They will change their policy over the few years like they have done for the 360. People don't realize they're being conned, you can do more than what an xbox can on the PC and its cheaper with no extra internet fees.

    Already I am seeing this in the tones of some replies. They're going to run out and buy it as soon as its available, then come back ranting on the forums months later when MS starts changing things on them.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    In addition... this isn't a game console. It's a home entertainment console. Gaming is one of the many features of it.  Frankly, MS should have scrapped the whole Xbox legacy and started with a new name for this machine so people will understand what it is.

    I loled.

     

    So another words for watered down PC.

     

    Once again, if people wants to buy a PC, they buy a PC, not a watered down PC. That was Microsoft error in thinking and even now they realised it - it is NOT about what the future is or what Microsoft wants, it is about what customer wants, because everything is driven by the market.

     

    If you want fresh orange juice why the hell would you buy Fanta? lol

    Sure, it's kind of like a modern Media Center PC, I guess.  Lol all you want, but this is where the market is heading.  These may very well be the last "consoles" ever made, at least by the big boys.  By the time these age out, your TV will likely just do it all, and access services in the cloud, including games.

    The grand unified field theory of entertainment. They've been trying to sell that one for decades. No one is buying. Just as no one is buying 3D television. Just as Blu-ray is a dead end killed almost immediately by cheap digital storage. Some day companies will learn people want more freedom and universal availability across platforms not being locked into a single service by limited physical media or unworkable digital restrictions. The cloud is marketspeak for offsite storage. The hard drive in my laptop can store every book in the Library of Congress in digital form. Why is it I need a cloud for content storage? Digital delivery may be the future but the cloud is just a rehash of the old dumb terminal smart server network failure.

    The question you should be asking is why you need to store your own copy of the library of congress, or why millions of people should have their own copy, when it will be ubiquitously available online via the net.  On other note, people lose shit all the time that they store on local storage due to disasters, hardware failures, theft, etc.  What are people doing now?  Using cloud backup for their data.  So now you have your own local copy, and you are paying to keep a copy in the cloud. Why not just pay a cloud service to provide it all?  

    Do you believe this trend is not going to continue?  I think you may want to get caught up on tech.  Unless there is some major disruptive reason to end this trend, it's only going to continue.  Even nVidia is working on streaming games.  I don't see how this is so hard for some to understand.  10-15 years is a long time in tech.  Go look up what it looked like that long ago, and then factor in the acceleration factor.

    Because access is slow and sometimes unavailable. Every time they try and limit access to media it gets hacked. It's happening on a wider scale of content every year. Why would I pay someone an exorbitant monthly fee to do what I can do for a one time charge myself? For things I need to use their network for I'll pay. If I don't why would I? Games don't stream well. No amount of technology can overcome latency. The game client will always reside on the user's system for all but the smallest games.  One time downloading media makes sense offsite storage of media does not. Why would I wait for my game to download every time I want to play it? The cloud is a myth. It's the illegitimate child of a broken business model.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    It's a good move by Microsoft.  Obviously, we can hate them for waiting to see if they can get away with it, and only removing it because of the strong outcry against it.  I prefer to forgive and forget.  This is a win for gamers all around, even if you don't plan to get an Xbox One it shows that with enough "whining" by the public you can sway a company towards better policies.  I'm still buying a PS4, mostly because it's cheaper, has exclusives more suited to my playstyle, will have Gaikai in the future (I don't own a Vita, PS3, or PS2 so Gaikai is a huge deal for me), and it has better indie support.  Still, if Xbox exclusives like Halo are a big deal to you Xbox One just became a viable system to buy now.

    image

    Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:
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  • MarXonMarXon StockholmPosts: 22Member
    Too little too late, for me. They fucked up.
  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    The question you should be asking is why you need to store your own copy of the library of congress, or why millions of people should have their own copy, when it will be ubiquitously available online via the net.  

     Why do you feel the need to own your own car when buses and trains can take you there.

    Jesus Christ man...not everyone wants the same god damn thing and anyone thinking it should be FORCED on us is basically bat shit crazy. you are an amazingly closed minded person for someone claiming to have his fingers on the pulse of the future.

    Hey want to know about some of the other things that are COMING AND NOTHING CAN STOP IT? Go watch any single one of the world of tomorrow videos...so quick, sell your car and never buy one again, flying cars ARE the future and nothing can stop progress.

    Your analogies need a lot of work.  I've resisted poking holes in them here because it would be a huge waste of time.

    You speak as if I'm talking about some far-off fantasy, when we are already surrounded by cloud services and it's becoming more ubiquitous every day.  Google, Microsoft and Apple seem to think it's a worthy "guess" for the future.  I always leave myself open to watch out for disruptive tech, especially at the speed with which things are being developed these days. So far though, it's hard to see any other infrastructure for most computing in the future.

    Having said all that, I don't think it's any stretch to say mainstream gaming will be going the same direction, and we are seeing the beginning of it with this gen of consoles.  Maybe it won't happen, but they are sure as hell going to try.

    Not sure where you got the idea I wanted anything forced on anyone.  If you knew me, you would laugh at the ignorance of the very idea.  I'm just telling you what I think will happen with the mainstream market.  As someone who spends 2-3K every couple years building my own gaming rigs, I hope there's always room for extremes and niche markets.

    I'm done talking about this subject.  You are welcome to flame on if you want, but I'm out. 

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • grndzrogrndzro Reno, NVPosts: 1,150Member
    Lmao the 19-1 amazon poll probably scared  the holy hell out of investors.
  • AvatarBladeAvatarBlade BucurestiPosts: 770Member Uncommon
    This is why neither MS or Sony should ever win the console wars. If one of the consoles were to disappear, the other one could do whatever they want, with little repercussion. 
  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    delete

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Too Little Too Late
  • thunderCthunderC miami flPosts: 464Member Uncommon

    To little to late Micro$oft. The damage has been done and in my opinion xbone and microsoft cannot be trusted , Wouldnt surprise me if this was a temporary solution just to get preorders on par  or even close to ps4 numbers. I could defintely see micro$oft bringing back all their nonsense (online & used game restrictions) a year or two down the line. 

     

    I think anyone who would even consider buying a Xboxone is out of their minds. Micro$oft has proved they are out of touch with what WE want. To little to late Xbone, Wont see a dime of my money.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
    Originally posted by MindTrigger
    In addition... this isn't a game console. It's a home entertainment console. Gaming is one of the many features of it.  Frankly, MS should have scrapped the whole Xbox legacy and started with a new name for this machine so people will understand what it is.

    I loled.

     

    So another words for watered down PC.

     

    Once again, if people wants to buy a PC, they buy a PC, not a watered down PC. That was Microsoft error in thinking and even now they realised it - it is NOT about what the future is or what Microsoft wants, it is about what customer wants, because everything is driven by the market.

     

    If you want fresh orange juice why the hell would you buy Fanta? lol

    Sure, it's kind of like a modern Media Center PC, I guess.  Lol all you want, but this is where the market is heading.  These may very well be the last "consoles" ever made, at least by the big boys.  By the time these age out, your TV will likely just do it all, and access services in the cloud, including games.

    The grand unified field theory of entertainment. They've been trying to sell that one for decades. No one is buying. Just as no one is buying 3D television. Just as Blu-ray is a dead end killed almost immediately by cheap digital storage. Some day companies will learn people want more freedom and universal availability across platforms not being locked into a single service by limited physical media or unworkable digital restrictions. The cloud is marketspeak for offsite storage. The hard drive in my laptop can store every book in the Library of Congress in digital form. Why is it I need a cloud for content storage? Digital delivery may be the future but the cloud is just a rehash of the old dumb terminal smart server network failure.

    The question you should be asking is why you need to store your own copy of the library of congress, or why millions of people should have their own copy, when it will be ubiquitously available online via the net.  On other note, people lose shit all the time that they store on local storage due to disasters, hardware failures, theft, etc.  What are people doing now?  Using cloud backup for their data.  So now you have your own local copy, and you are paying to keep a copy in the cloud. Why not just pay a cloud service to provide it all?  

    Do you believe this trend is not going to continue?  I think you may want to get caught up on tech.  Unless there is some major disruptive reason to end this trend, it's only going to continue.  Even nVidia is working on streaming games.  I don't see how this is so hard for some to understand.  10-15 years is a long time in tech.  Go look up what it looked like that long ago, and then factor in the acceleration factor.

    Because access is slow and sometimes unavailable. Every time they try and limit access to media it gets hacked. It's happening on a wider scale of content every year. Why would I pay someone an exorbitant monthly fee to do what I can do for a one time charge myself? For things I need to use their network for I'll pay. If I don't why would I? Games don't stream well. No amount of technology can overcome latency. The game client will always reside on the user's system for all but the smallest games.  One time downloading media makes sense offsite storage of media does not. Why would I wait for my game to download every time I want to play it? The cloud is a myth. It's the illegitimate child of a broken business model.

    "Games don't stream well."  Really?  What games don't? All of them?  Some? Isn't the tech still in development? The only games I can think of that will not work well streaming are ones that require twitch-speed latency. My guess is the vast majority of mainstream games will stream just fine with 10-20ms latency.  (I use those numbers because my current latency to Google is 9-12ms most of the time).  At any rate, I'm not arguing about streaming games today.  That tech is in very early stages of dev.

    I wonder if you ever played shooters on modem speeds back in the late 90's.  I did.  They use prediction algorithms on the clients to make it work on slow connections, and it did pretty damn well.

    "The cloud is a myth".  I'm not sure what you mean by this.  I'm going to hope you are talking about streaming games, and not cloud tech in general.  

    Edit:  BTW, I hate the term "cloud".  It's a marketing term, but it's the one being used for now, so I will.  

    Any game above a certain size doesn't stream well, and never will. Since the client must be stored locally to work properly streaming games is pointless. Cloud tech in general in it's current and future form is just offsite storage. Great for backup useless for anything else. Remember the great distributed computing experiments? They died out when computers reached the capacity to do everything on their own in one space. Distributed computing was killed by logistical limitations. It was also the original justification for the "cloud."  The cloud that had meaning beyond being a marketing buzzword. Apple Google and the rest are just working on newer versions of WAN network collaboration and client synchronization and that's been around since DARPANet was created.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

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