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Microsoft: "We have a console for people without internet, it's called a 360"

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  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,134Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sunshadow21
    Originally posted by Nephaerius
    Originally posted by TheYear1500
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    The silly thing is that many people also gave Microsoft a second chance.

     

    As opposed to the people who have given Sony a second third and forth chance?

     

    Do people just forget that they KNEW about a security flaw in the PSN and did nothing about it until it was hacked and millions of credit card data and other information was stolen?

    Do they forget that they then didn't tell people for 2 weeks after it happened giving criminals time to use that information instead of giving the victims time to protect themselves?

     

    Do they forget that right as the announcement about the PSN hack came out Sony got hacked again with more information stolen?

     

     

    Maybe in a discussion of Xbox vs Playstation second chances aren't the best topic to make Playstation look better.

    Arent companies supossed to get better?, if they make stupid mistakes then learn from them? i hope Sony learned from that crap that got them hacked, but that doesnt mean i have to fall again from another crap now brought by Microsoft. I know ill get my ps4 and IF i decide to stay with xbox live it will be on my current 360 aside from my ps4 of course. If you and I are competing and you make a horrible mistake, i will not make a horrible mistake just because your fans gave you a second chance and my fans might do it too.

    My point is in a thread where people are saying that the PS4 is a better choice, using one of those reasons as Microsoft made a mistake and therefore shouldn't be given another one is a crazy remark because Sony has made far worse mistakes and people are suggesting giving them another shot.

     

    Also companies are supposed to get better, that is why it was so shocking that Sony left vulnerabilities in their other sites after the PSN hack suggesting that they clearly didn't care enough about any of their users' information to learn from their mistakes.

    As I said in an earlier post, I don't like Microsoft that much and find some of their policies to be ridiculous. However, being logged in to use stuff is where the entire software industry is headed and a big reason for that is piracy. Blame the people who continue to steal software/movies/music as to why you will continue to face tougher restrictions.

     

     

    Most people truly will never care about the always logged in style of the Xbox. This has already been proven with Steam continuing to do well as it implements the same policies. It is where the future of stuff is headed. We're also headed toward a future where people don't buy software, but instead rent it (which also requires people to be logged in to show they have a valid account) which you can see with Adobe and Microsoft products (among other companies). The few people who really care will try to fight it but eventually have to accept it as the majority is ok with it happening.

    I highly dislike F2P MMO gaming. I can protest and shout from the hills if I want, but so many people are for it that it is happening and will continue to happen just like logged in to use software.

    You do not need to always be on to play steam games.  Any single player game can be played offline.  Please learn how steam works before you use it as an example.   

    False.  It doesn't work if you do not have your credentials saved and have previously logged in with them that way from that PC.  I know this from being on vacation in Costa Rica and not being able to play any of my Steam titles.  So it's not like I can just put any Steam game on my computer, DC from the internet, and play at my leisure.  There's DRM there whether it's always on or not.

    So it takes 5 minutes of internet once to get Steam games to work vs regular checks every 24 hours. Steam isn't a valid comparison in this respect because while they do have DRM, the degree of it is nowhere near what Microsoft is trying to implement. Once you set it, the only reason you absolutely need the internet is to change the basic setting; there are still times and places that it won't work, but finding 5 minutes worth of basic internet access is nowhere near the challenges of maintaining an "always connected to broadband" connection that XB1 sounds like is going to be required.

    ^ This and also, Steam gamers are PC gamers. When was the last time someone unplug their PC from internet? lol.

     

    Can't compare console with PC. Console is a fun & casual device and PC is a "serious business" device - even when you play games on it it is serious business. :P

  • Yodi2007Yodi2007 Valdosta, GAPosts: 167Member

    photo download.gif

    LoL!!

    Below is where we can disscuss and come up with new ideas for Sandparks!

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5164689#5164689

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     
    There's a difference between Microsoft imposing an always online requirement for every game, and developers imposing online requirements for the games they develop. Steam is not imposing an artificial restriction to increase their own revenues. Microsoft is imposing an artificial restriction to increase their own revenues.
     

     

    Did they say you need an Xbox Live Gold paid setup or did they simply say that you need to be connected to the internet so they can verify the game?

     

    If it is the first, then yes they are running up the tab. If it is the second it is actually no different at all from what several developers are already doing. 

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,535Member Uncommon

    Well that is a good solution, seeing as if you do not have internet the XB1 will just be a very expensive and under-powerd PC that you can't do anything on... Much like the PS4.

     

    I have a hard time seeing that enough people will be content with just a game console in the next 4-5 years. At least the XB1 have the potential to build better features and is massively more future-proofed compared to the PS4.

     

    But that is the beauty of this generation, we now have a decent choice. If you like a glorified PsP, you got the PS4 and if you like a slightly retarded PC with a hands-free interface you got the XB1. Two different markets and two different methods.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by tawess
    Well that is a good solution, seeing as if you do not have internet the XB1 will just be a very expensive and under-powerd PC that you can't do anything on... Much like the PS4.

     

    I have a hard time seeing that enough people will be content with just a game console in the next 4-5 years. At least the XB1 have the potential to build better features and is massively more future-proofed compared to the PS4.

     

    But that is the beauty of this generation, we now have a decent choice. If you like a glorified PsP, you got the PS4 and if you like a slightly retarded PC with a hands-free interface you got the XB1. Two different markets and two different methods.



    On the Xbone, games will stop running or never install without an internet connection. On an Xbox 360 and a PS4, games will both install and run without an internet connection. While the Xbox 360 is a solution, it's a dumb one. Anyone who was interested in a 360 has already purchased it and the PS4 is a superior console to the 360.

    ** ** **

    What does the XB1 have that the PS4 does not have? They have nearly identical hardware and capabilities. The differences between the two systems are in policies, not capabilities.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

    Originally posted by lizardbones   There's a difference between Microsoft imposing an always online requirement for every game, and developers imposing online requirements for the games they develop. Steam is not imposing an artificial restriction to increase their own revenues. Microsoft is imposing an artificial restriction to increase their own revenues.    
    Did they say you need an Xbox Live Gold paid setup or did they simply say that you need to be connected to the internet so they can verify the game?

     

    If it is the first, then yes they are running up the tab. If it is the second it is actually no different at all from what several developers are already doing. 



    Microsoft is driving up the tab, and they are using the always on or daily check in to do it. Used games are restricted and borrowing games is severely restricted. Used games in particular will require fees paid to Microsoft through "authorized retailers" and borrowing a game only works once. This is to push sales. Microsoft will get money from used games and will push sales of new games, making more money. None of this works without the required internet connectivity.

    Remember, we were talking about physical game discs, not digital games. All of that stuff that Microsoft is doing would make perfect sense for digital copies of games. Allowing people to borrow digital copies of games would be a step up. But we're talking game discs, not digital games, so it's a step back, not a step up.

    Since Steam doesn't deal with game discs, their policies make sense and are accepted by the people using the service. It was more restrictive than game discs, but it was also more convenient. Compared to the Xbox One, it's more convenient and less restrictive. Probably cheaper too since Steam runs sales on a regular basis.

    ** ** **

    It's not the always on requirement, it's the policies tied to the always on requirement, and the arrogant attitude Microsoft has towards their customers, 25% of whom don't have their Xbox 360s connected to the internet in the United States. That's 18 million people.

    http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news-3114-Would-Microsoft-be-Foolish-to-Make-the-Next-Xbox-Always-Online--The-Stats-Suggest-Yes.html

    I'm certain Microsoft thinks they can make more money with their policies, but so is Sony.

    ** ** **

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcfQ_hF-R9I

    Microsoft says on their Blog that they will get no money from the sales of used games. Publishers may get a cut of that money, but Microsoft won't.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • sunshadow21sunshadow21 Omaha, NEPosts: 354Member
    Originally posted by tawess

    I have a hard time seeing that enough people will be content with just a game console in the next 4-5 years. At least the XB1 have the potential to build better features and is massively more future-proofed compared to the PS4.

    I wouldn't bet on the lack of people wanting just a game console. There will always be a place for a system whose primary, and possibly only,  function is to provide quick, mobile, and occasional gaming for any number of reasons. If Microsoft was trying to do this in the PC or even tablet market, I would agree with those that say that the ruckus is all over nothing, but consoles are a different beast for a reason, and while there may at this point be a big enough market for a hybrid machine alongside pure consoles, the idea that something like the XB1 will replace traditional consoles is absurd. The main target console gamer is not going to suddenly change their views on they are looking for, and the actual games are not likely to change much because of that either. This is going to b a problem for Microsoft because most games right now really don't require and/or are barely able to justify an always on internet connection; this isn't going to change anytime soon, so making a console that puts more hurdles in the path of these games than the gameplay itself can justify is going to run into problems. The XB1 may be a very good entertainment box that happens to include games in the package, but it is not a gaming console that will allow for the traditional uses of gaming consoles, and therefore will be, as far as gaming consoles go, a flop. It may very well find success in it's own niche market sitting between consoles and other electronic devices, but not as a gaming console.

  • miagisanmiagisan NY, NYPosts: 5,156Member

    first of all...you are all daft to think that everyone in the US has broadband. According to the FCC, 119 million americans alone do not have access to broadband.

    ALso take into account the number of service men and women who are avid gamers, that number goes up tremendously. One of the most popular past time of our armed forces are video games.

    Lastly, Steam works perfectly fine offline. I went on a 3 month job out of state with no internet. I downloaded 5 games onto my laptop prior to going away, and it worked just fine the entire time.

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  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    If things are not quick, easy and convenient then people complain like 2 year olds. I shouldn't be amazed but it amazes me when people don't have it their way all the time then it is considered no good. It is embarrassing to watch.
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  • gatherisgatheris Charlotte, MIPosts: 995Member Uncommon

    i think the point is being missed by a whole lot of posters

    not everyong has high speed internet!

    shocking isn't it!

    and there are those of us with "high" speed internet - well it is considered high speed internet but at 2.5m download most would not consider....

    why is this a problem?

    for example having a Dish dvr attached to the router at the same time you would like to download the latest (for like the 10th time in one month) patch for PS2 - do you have 3 days to spare before you can play (seriously)?

    forget about having Steam running in the background while trying to play a game online - and if you want to add skype - ewwww

    youtube video without pausing to buffer - yeah right

    so yeah, being online with the console 24/7 is not happening

    PS4 wins - - -  period

     

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  • miagisanmiagisan NY, NYPosts: 5,156Member
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    If things are not quick, easy and convenient then people complain like 2 year olds. I shouldn't be amazed but it amazes me when people don't have it their way all the time then it is considered no good. It is embarrassing to watch.

    Please explain this to me....cause according to an article i read you will need at least 1.5 mbs connection just to play your single player game. How is that whining?

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  • saurus123saurus123 nonePosts: 570Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by miagisan
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    If things are not quick, easy and convenient then people complain like 2 year olds. I shouldn't be amazed but it amazes me when people don't have it their way all the time then it is considered no good. It is embarrassing to watch.

    Please explain this to me....cause according to an article i read you will need at least 1.5 mbs connection just to play your single player game. How is that whining?

    i doubt it

     

    you can do the 24h check-in with your moblie phone and its easier than login on facebook

    http://www.videogamer.com/news/xbox_one_24-hour_check-in_using_mobile_phone_uses_kilobytes_of_data_says_harrison.html

     

    and yes this is anti pirate policy console check once a day if your soft is not modified

  • sunshadow21sunshadow21 Omaha, NEPosts: 354Member
    Originally posted by saurus123
    Originally posted by miagisan
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    If things are not quick, easy and convenient then people complain like 2 year olds. I shouldn't be amazed but it amazes me when people don't have it their way all the time then it is considered no good. It is embarrassing to watch.

    Please explain this to me....cause according to an article i read you will need at least 1.5 mbs connection just to play your single player game. How is that whining?

    i doubt it

     

    you can do the 24h check-in with your moblie phone and its easier than login on facebook

    http://www.videogamer.com/news/xbox_one_24-hour_check-in_using_mobile_phone_uses_kilobytes_of_data_says_harrison.html

     

    and yes this is anti pirate policy console check once a day if your soft is not modified

    It's still daily maintenance, and every console gamer I know personally would simply skip the hassle because while they do enjoy their games, they don't play everyday, or even at regular intervals. Having to check in every 24 hours when you don't know when your next time playing on the system will be (something that I'm pretty sure is fairly common to the average console player as opposed to the type of gamer that is likely to be found on any forum) is going to be a very, very big turnoff.

  • bbethelbbethel las vegas, NVPosts: 199Member

    My brother owns a xbox 360 he loves games.

    He lives way out in the boonies were he can not get internet that is worth getting. He even has bad cell phone service out there. So with Xbox one being online all the time he will not be getting a xbox and he is mad about that. He has never owned a ps anything. He is what you would call a XBOX fan boy.

    He is having a hard time coming to terms that he is going to have to buy a PS4. 

  • IridescentOrkIridescentOrk Ellicott City, MDPosts: 157Member

    I have the popcorn ready. Just wait until the XB1 is released and people start complaining that even though the internet connection is fine, their console doesn't let them play (who want's to bet? I am game!!). At this point, I have to pass on it. I don't use my Xbox360 every day and have no desire in becoming a slave. I have enough of dealing with "servers down for maintenance" when I try to play an online game  with perhaps 2 hours max of free time, and then with the XB1 adding more hassles. No way.

     

    gameplay > graphics

  • taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member
    Originally posted by worldalpha
    The Internet auth. doesn't bother me.  My 360 is on it 24x7.  So no change.  I actually like the fact games will be on the HD.  No, it's not that I'm lazy, it is because I have an 8 year old, and eventually the disks end up everywhere, in other jackets, underneath the TV unit, etc.  This way, with them all on the HD, I'm set, and just can say XBOX on, and off I go.

    You will have ~10 games on your HDD if you do not use your XBOX one for any of its other features. Then it is full. The rest you will need to re-download whenever you want to play. No you can not put a bigger HDD into the system, it's locked.

    I have 100Mbit and even for me a game like "The Last of Us" which is current generation and 40GB in size will probably take around 60-75 Minutes IF i get maximum speed.

    This console is going to fail so hard it will go down in history as the biggest failure of all time.

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

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  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,134Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by miagisan

    ALso take into account the number of service men and women who are avid gamers, that number goes up tremendously. One of the most popular past time of our armed forces are video games.

    ^ That is true.

     

    Also one thing to note also is that one of the most played console while on active service is Xbox (because servicemen likes playing Call of Duty and Gears of War). Microsoft is basically shooting themselves in the foot with Xbox One here.

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