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The topic on everyone's mind: "Can EQ:Next work with Sony's F2P Model?"

BearKnightBearKnight Augusta, GAPosts: 461Member

My personal opinion is "Hell No", but I've been around for quite awhile with experience of every model out there along with SOE's long standing of hating their own products.

I personally saw how badly they messed up Planetside 2 with their "F2P Model", and quite frankly I feel if they do the same it'll burn the Everquest franchise to the floor worse than EQ2 did. However, again that's just from personal experience.

 

However, I'd love to know everyone else's opinion :).

 

Simple question, do you feel F2P can work with a truly open-ended Sandbox model game that SOE is working to build for Everquest 3?

 

 

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Comments

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Uh, there's nothing wrong with Planetside 2's F2P model.
  • NoLimit5401NoLimit5401 two rivers, WIPosts: 20Member Uncommon

    This was not on my mind image

     

    I think as long as they offer a sub option like Eq2 or Dcuo, I will be happy.

  • BearKnightBearKnight Augusta, GAPosts: 461Member
    Originally posted by NoLimit5401
    This was not on my mind image

    Don't lie to me NoLimit. It's alright, you won't be torn asunder bro :).

  • BearKnightBearKnight Augusta, GAPosts: 461Member
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Uh, there's nothing wrong with Planetside 2's F2P model.

    Guns for $5-15 a piece?

    Upgrades that are the same?

    The best sniper rifle for NC in the game was a $15 unlock, and probably still is. I'm not sure because I stopped playing when I realized how Pay-2-Play was infinitely cheaper for the player to play.

     

    Not to mention the massive # of cheaters in Ps2, because all they have to do once their banned is simply spoof their Hardware ID bans from SOE then roll a new account.

     

    Almost every battle I played a couple months ago had cheaters under the ground, flying around, teleporting AMS's into the side of buildings etc etc. Not to mention the across-the-map running headshots from snipers like I was standing in front of them.

     

    The current total cheater's perma-banned from Planetside 2 exceed the current number of players still playing. That says a LOT for such a new title.

     

    I wholeheartedly disagree that there's "nothing wrong".

     

    They cut the game into pieces in order to make money, and that murders the game's very soul.

     

    I'd rather go to the movie theatre, or buy ONE pizza, less per month and pay $15/month without a cash-shop involved than pay $550 to access the same content.

  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,481Member Uncommon
    It s a game you can earn everything in game just playing it. If you can buy it, who cares, you can still earn it playing. There is nothing wrong with the PS2 model. I ve played the game since launch, and I still don t see the excessive amount of so called hackers. Sure theres some, as in any game, but I personally haven t seen any.
  • BearKnightBearKnight Augusta, GAPosts: 461Member
    Originally posted by Soki123
    It s a game you can earn everything in game just playing it. If you can buy it, who cares, you can still earn it playing. There is nothing wrong with the PS2 model. I ve played the game since launch, and I still don t see the excessive amount of so called hackers. Sure theres some, as in any game, but I personally haven t seen any.

    You probably don't know what to look for, and have just brushed those experiences off as chance or simply missed them.

    Last time I logged in our whole platoon got wiped out on teamspeak by two people. One was a medic and the other was a support. They were camping a roof of an objective point, and their LMG support was SNIPING my guys coming on foot from our AMS (aka: respawn sundy).

     

    After they wracked up about ~100 kills my guys all rage quit (14 of us at the time btw). Two days later both of those guys were banned, and our clan swore off Planetside 2. We'd had countless scenarios like that, amongst some of the worse examples posted before, that all weighed heavily on that decision too.

     

     

    ps: Any time you put a REAL item, such as a gun/upgrade/w-e, on your cash-shop it becomes pay to win. Especially when purchasing said item shaves days, weeks, or even months off the time it would have taken to achieve it. Changing the name, or the way you can achieve it, doesn't make it any less Pay-To-Win, or dirty.

     

     

  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,481Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BearKnight
    Originally posted by Soki123
    It s a game you can earn everything in game just playing it. If you can buy it, who cares, you can still earn it playing. There is nothing wrong with the PS2 model. I ve played the game since launch, and I still don t see the excessive amount of so called hackers. Sure theres some, as in any game, but I personally haven t seen any.

    You probably don't know what to look for, and have just brushed those experiences off as chance or simply missed them.

    Last time I logged in our whole platoon got wiped out on teamspeak by two people. One was a medic and the other was a support. They were camping a roof of an objective point, and their LMG support was SNIPING my guys coming on foot from our AMS (aka: respawn sundy).

     

    After they wracked up about ~100 kills my guys all rage quit (14 of us at the time btw). Two days later both of those guys were banned, and our clan swore off Planetside 2. We'd had countless scenarios like that, amongst some of the worse examples posted before, that all weighed heavily on that decision too.

     

     

    I ve played it a ton, and never seen it, not sure what else to tell you. Shit happens anyways, it s just a game.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways ChittagongPosts: 1,040Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BearKnight

    My personal opinion is "Hell No", but I've been around for quite awhile with experience of every model out there along with SOE's long standing of hating their own products.

    I personally saw how badly they messed up Planetside 2 with their "F2P Model", and quite frankly I feel if they do the same it'll burn the Everquest franchise to the floor worse than EQ2 did. However, again that's just from personal experience.

     

    However, I'd love to know everyone else's opinion :).

     

    Simple question, do you feel F2P can work with a truly open-ended Sandbox model game that SOE is working to build for Everquest 3?

     

     

    yes it will work just "fine" as other SOE mmo, there will be a sub option and people who will sub will be free to hack/bot/write racist message; slang in chat but if a non sub tells them to shut up will instantly get banned for a week, not to mention if free players use a single slang in chat : perma banned within 2 min. it works fine for SOE.

    i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
    Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  • ET3DET3D Posts: 229Member Uncommon
    Can it work? Probably not to the satisfaction of everyone. Is there another option? I don't think so.
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,084Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BearKnight

     

    Simple question, do you feel F2P can work with a truly open-ended Sandbox model game that SOE is working to build for Everquest 3?

     

     

    I wouldn't get caught up in this sandbox thing, EQN will not be a true sandbox game no matter how Smed wants to label it.

     

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  • shibonoryushibonoryu Ft Meade, MDPosts: 23Member
    Originally posted by BearKnight
    Originally posted by Soki123
    It s a game you can earn everything in game just playing it. If you can buy it, who cares, you can still earn it playing. There is nothing wrong with the PS2 model. I ve played the game since launch, and I still don t see the excessive amount of so called hackers. Sure theres some, as in any game, but I personally haven t seen any.

    You probably don't know what to look for, and have just brushed those experiences off as chance or simply missed them.

    Last time I logged in our whole platoon got wiped out on teamspeak by two people. One was a medic and the other was a support. They were camping a roof of an objective point, and their LMG support was SNIPING my guys coming on foot from our AMS (aka: respawn sundy).

    After they wracked up about ~100 kills my guys all rage quit (14 of us at the time btw). Two days later both of those guys were banned, and our clan swore off Planetside 2. We'd had countless scenarios like that, amongst some of the worse examples posted before, that all weighed heavily on that decision too.

    ps: Any time you put a REAL item, such as a gun/upgrade/w-e, on your cash-shop it becomes pay to win. Especially when purchasing said item shaves days, weeks, or even months off the time it would have taken to achieve it. Changing the name, or the way you can achieve it, doesn't make it any less Pay-To-Win, or dirty.

    Underlined part - This has nothing to do with your issues with whether or not the game is "p2w", this is an issue of either your squad being horrible, or more than likely, they were hacking, hence the banhammer. You're just whining to whine at this point.

    image
  • DejoblueDejoblue Youngstown, OHPosts: 296Member Uncommon

    EQ and EQ2 had a resurgence in players due to free to play.

     

    SOE does not sell power in those games. They do sell leveling gear in EQ1 and Vanguard, they used to in EQ2 but stopped. They sell xp boost potions and spell research time. However, it has not equated into power because they do not sell high end rai0d gear or equivalent, or even end game dungeon gear or equivalent.

    I have read many complaints about PS2 and it selling high end weapons. That appears tantamount to end game gear, which would be power for sale in EQ and EQ2 and Vanguard.

    We will have to wait and see. We do not know if EQN will use a leveling system like EQ,EQ2 a certification system like PS2 a real time spell research system like EQ2 and EVE Online or what.

    We also do not know what they are going to sell on the SC market.

    For me, until I see that I am going to assume the best, that it will be like EQ, EQ2 and Vanguard and be simple convenience like leveling gear and xp potions and fluff like Mounts and Pets.

     

    Right now EQ, EQ2 and Vanguard can have a subscription and are exactly like WoW, they are a sub and you can buy mounts and pets. The only difference is WoW has free heirloom gear and SOE sells it via the cash shop, for all intents and purposes of this discussion.

    We also have to consider the audience. Selling power will turn off a lot of MMORPG players. On the other hand they are going for a new market.

    Wait and see is what we have to do.

    Hopefully it is the same EQ, EQ2 and VG model.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon

    Will there be any way to convert real money into game money? Will the economy be heavily player driven?

    If the answer is yes to the above questions, a F2P model will not work well. This is the same question I have with "The Repopulation".

  • KoroshiyaKoroshiya Pacific, WAPosts: 250Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dejoblue

    EQ and EQ2 had a resurgence in players due to free to play.

     

    SOE does not sell power in those games. They do sell leveling gear in EQ1 and Vanguard, they used to in EQ2 but stopped. They sell xp boost potions and spell research time. However, it has not equated into power because they do not sell high end rai0d gear or equivalent, or even end game dungeon gear or equivalent.

    I have read many complaints about PS2 and it selling high end weapons. That appears tantamount to end game gear, which would be power for sale in EQ and EQ2 and Vanguard.

    We will have to wait and see. We do not know if EQN will use a leveling system like EQ,EQ2 a certification system like PS2 a real time spell research system like EQ2 and EVE Online or what.

    We also do not know what they are going to sell on the SC market.

    For me, until I see that I am going to assume the best, that it will be like EQ, EQ2 and Vanguard and be simple convenience like leveling gear and xp potions and fluff like Mounts and Pets.

     

    Right now EQ, EQ2 and Vanguard can have a subscription and are exactly like WoW, they are a sub and you can buy mounts and pets. The only difference is WoW has free heirloom gear and SOE sells it via the cash shop, for all intents and purposes of this discussion.

    We also have to consider the audience. Selling power will turn off a lot of MMORPG players. On the other hand they are going for a new market.

    Wait and see is what we have to do.

    Hopefully it is the same EQ, EQ2 and VG model.

    the problem for peoples argument that PS2's payment model is pay to win, is that everything in game can be unlocked (except camo's which aren't stat based only cosmetic) is that the guns themselves aren't really that different from the default gun, they have cooler sounds, might have a bit more velocity for range, or RPM for close range the reality is the default guns are just all of the bought guns mashed up into a "jack of all trades" gun.  The power for these guns come from the attachments you can buy, and the default guns for the most part have the same exact choices minus one or two.  The attachments which make the gun powerful can not be unlocked with cash, only certs which you earn by playing.  On top of it, all the guns that you can buy that are more geared toward a certain play style, can also be unlocked with certs not just cash.  For my MAX unit, I unlocked 2 weapons for 500 certs, took me about 5 hours of play time or I could have bought them for 5 bucks each.  

     

    As for the cheaters, they are there.  But they aren't anywhere near where the haters in this thread are trying to make it sound.  I play planetside 2 everyday, at least 2-3 hours a night and I always run into baddy squads that get farmed coming out of the sundi, I rarely run into people cheating though.

     

    Now, on to the topic of EQ2 and if its model will work in eqn.  Not for me, hell no.  why?  because they have rediculous amounts of roadblocks for free 2 play characters.  Gear tier locks, skill locks all bs money grubbing things.  They need a real open model like Tera, or guild wars 2 both of which I spend tons in their cash shops because I can spend money and give them support when it makes sense for ME and my pocketbook, as a direct result, I tend to spend more per year then I would with the sub model and in games like eq2, I just don't play anymore.  Too many other options out there.  They will gut eqn if they try to launch with their current mindset.  They need to look at the current next gen argument going on over Xbox one and PS4 and take a learning from SCE.  Start treating your customers like they matter, not their dollar and the other companies will shoot themselves in the foot for you.  If you don't try and fleece us for every penny we as gamers will gladly give you our last dime!

    “The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness” – Bob Marley

  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member
    If its not on my mind does that mean there is something wrong with me, and can you be positive its going to be F2P with a cash shop?
  • KuanshuKuanshu Des Moines, IAPosts: 272Member

    Is it cause I am older and have been gaming for a while that I notice change as a constant and real part of our reality? heh

    Guys, Gals, Guys :) Don't ever allow your minds to grasp anything as simply said it keeps you from seeing reality in a real way :)

    Wre certainly are affected by an everchanging world and as such an everchanging economy therein; everything is connected and each affects the other and so on...

    I remember hearing stories of people racking up 100s and 1000s of dollars playing online MUDs. Hourly useage fees for dialup was mainly the issue here back in the day.

    Then there was monthly fees for dialup and then we moved onto broadband (thank the gods!) and I sure took advantage of exclusive free trial period promotional deals as I switched from dsl to cable and so on for as long as I could. Nowadays you have limitations on bandwidth usage based on your internet package from your internet provider.

    Monthly fees were the standard in MMORPGs for a long time. Now and I consider this due to the numerous amount of MMORPGs on the market and more and more in development; Companies are allowing initial free acess to what used to be a monthly fee game or simply allowing it to be free right at launch, as they want you to play their game.

    Farmers; This is a factor which has changing MMORPGs as they were a scourge for many years. Personally, I sold a character while playing Asheron's Call for $2250 and recalling the time involved into this character it wasn't worth my time/energy. Farmering companies do whatever it takes to obtain ingame currency, item, and characters in the quickest, most efficient, most effective way possible as their bottomline is making money alongside the competition. So many times I tried to tell gaming companies to sell their own currency, items, characters and yet this would surely become an issue and again there are so many games to choose from these days. Farmers have helped change and shapre the MMORPG world we play in today.

    So how does a gaming company make money off of their product? This is the question you have to ask yourself yet be aware there are so many variables to consider and the mind doesn't know, so just let it go and be happy being able to try the game out (after you bought the product) free and then decide for yourself if you want to continue to play or jump ship for there are 100s of MMORPGs out there and even more in development.

    The gist of it? They want us tuned in, turned off, dropped in or rather jacked in O.o!

     

     

  • DejoblueDejoblue Youngstown, OHPosts: 296Member Uncommon

    I disagree with the complaints of the EQ2 model. Certainly there are locks on bagslots and gear equips and spells. My solution has been to level with the free spells and abilities with Mastercrafted gear and then once I get to max level I buy the bag slots and spells and if I get awesome gear I pay for it as it comes. This is till much less overall than paying $15/month. I can buy the bag slots as I level and there is a large investment into spells once I get to max level but gear upgrades come slowly as well.

    I understand the feeling of frustration, I really do, but it is more than fair when you consider the time played versus what you would have played with a subscription.

     

    Bag slots are open for all now.

    All races and classes, except freeblood and beastlord, are free to all.

    You pay for spell unlocks, 5 for 150SC, that is 50 for about $15 less if you catch an SC sale or double SC weekend.

    Of course what we see in EQNext is to be determined. But I have hope that they are learning as they go along and see more and more of what people are willing to pay for and what the impact is on having locks on and off are. I think in the end they will find that people buy all kinds of appearance armor and housing items and it is more benefit to sell expansions and have everything open and free so that engaged players are then willing and able to buy that mount and this and that, IE they are getting more than $15 a month, even when everything is open, and that gives them more players, etc.

     

    To clarify, You can level a character in EQ2 to max level and once there you have to buy spell unlocks and gear unlocks. That is it. Everything else is free.

    To unlock an item is 25 SC. To unlock all items is 600 SC. It is 40 SC for one item and 25 SC for 2 ore more, 25SC/item.

     

    So were looking at 600 SC, that leaves you with 400 SC with a $10 card or 10 spells, catch SC on sale and you can get a $20 card for $15 which is 600 SC for gear and 1400 SC for 45 spell unlocks.

    And this is a one time $15 investment. Not including however many months of free game play it took you to level to max.

    Yes the expansion to be able tog et to max is $40. So you are out $55 and get to play for free otherwise, like GW2. And if you DO have the money and budget out for $15 worth of SC every month you get WAY more and then you catch double SC weekends and deals like the current $5 off on Gamestop cards... that is $120 a year worth of SC, for a free game, that you dont have to spend and if you play your cards right, and save it and wait and get a deal like now, that is 15,000 SC or we get another double SC weekend that is 24,000 SC. Enough for all of your alts.

    But we are seriously talking like $60 a year.

  • William12William12 Saint paul, MNPosts: 680Member

    What is with these people and OMG PS2 was pay to win. 

     

    NO pay to win is you HAVE to pay because you cannot achieve that power without paying.  PS2 allows you to unlock EVERYTHING through and wait for it PLAYING THE GAME.

  • BidwoodBidwood Toronto, ONPosts: 554Member

    It'll be pay-to-play. Like the guy above said, SOE is a business and needs to make money. They can't give us something 100% free.

     

    Since this will be a sandbox with lots of building, presumably, I could see a shop for buying raw building materials to save the time collecting them all.

  • ClassicEQClassicEQ alta loma, CAPosts: 145Member

    I understand SOE is a business that needs money.

     

    A cash shop is NOT the answer. Not for a game that requires an alternate multiplayer, role-playing world. What  has happened to subscriptions? Cash shops destroy immersion. Players are spending real world money to change the in game world. Experience boosters, vanity items (dyes), mounts, raw building materials should all be earned within game. When you start skipping the small things (like crafting/finding dye) in the game, it creates little holes in the game and eventually you're just left with people standing around saying "hey look what I accomplished (bought) in 2 seconds!"  This leads to becoming bored faster.

    When I see amazing looking players in Gw2, I just don't think much of it. I just think cash shop. When I saw flashy gear in EQ1, I inspected their armor and talked to them. They usually ended up telling me a story. Each piece had a story.

     

    People saying "you DON'T have to use the cash shop if you don't like it" aren't thinking this through. It is annoying to have it in the game because what you EARNED has no value if someone else buys it.

  • nennafirnennafir Greater New Orleans Metro Area, LAPosts: 283Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ClassicEQ

    People saying "you DON'T have to use the cash shop if you don't like it" aren't thinking this through. It is annoying to have it in the game because what you EARNED has no value if someone else buys it.

    Who cares about anyone else?  Do you seriously play MMOs for vanity, to brag it up to other players?  I know a lot of people do, but:  Grow up already.  It is a game.  It was worth it if you had fun doing it.  Are you seriously trying to make a living off the game, that you care what value the things you EARNED (your caps) have?

    Edit:  Don't get me wrong.  I am all about fair play.  I don't get a thrill pvping if I know I am playing against someone who just bought their gear and that is why they are winning.  But for the same reason, I am not thrilled to pvp with someone who did some boring godawful raid dungeon for 3000-hours because they are unemployed/student and that is why they are winning.  In both cases, they are not winning because of skill but rather because of game-sanctioned cheating.

    Often, I think I am not for MMOs and go on a spree of just playing fighting games again.  Now, those are refreshing games, particularly if face-to-face so lag is not an issue...  Why can't we just have more fighting games, even if I am getting old enough that my reflexes aren't what they once were?

    In any case, I understand if people don't like playing in a game that is rigged.  Who does?  Who wants to play dice with someone who uses weighted dice?  But when I hear people talking about the hard work that they put into games, and the blood and sweat they poured out to EARN their place/items, it just makes me laugh.

  • foofighter405foofighter405 Medina, OHPosts: 26Member
    Originally posted by nennafir
    Originally posted by ClassicEQ

    People saying "you DON'T have to use the cash shop if you don't like it" aren't thinking this through. It is annoying to have it in the game because what you EARNED has no value if someone else buys it.

    Who cares about anyone else?  Do you seriously play MMOs for vanity, to brag it up to other players?  I know a lot of people do, but:  Grow up already.  It is a game.  It was worth it if you had fun doing it.  Are you seriously trying to make a living off the game, that you care what value the things you EARNED (your caps) have?

       Of course you care what other people think.  We all care to some extent about how others view us.  That's not a valid argument at all.  A cash shop is and has been a bad idea.  When you don't earn the items that you gathered throughout your avatars "life" you have less value on the items not to mention the game.  It's short sited by the company to say hey we got some cash while we could, People that earn items and are proud of it stay around longer and in the monthly payments put up more cash in the long run if the game created is solid. 

       Also growing up has nothing to do with it and is a simple slander to justify your agreement.

    Foo

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    My opinion on pay to win is can a guy log on, spend $300, and instantly beat all the hard work I did? If he/she can, then it is pay to win. I prefer top end gear to NOT be for sell via cash shop. But, if that is the case, then it needs to at a rate where non-payers don't feel obligated/required to pay. If the grind is so ridiculous its unrealistic to not pay, then its a problem
  • GrailerGrailer HamiltonPosts: 876Member Uncommon

    All online Shooters have people using wallhacks and aimbots . I am 100% sure of this .

    There is no real way to stop this because there are people selling professional hacks that they continue to change when detected.

    But in a PvE game like EQ where its group vs AI  the only cheating is usually the monsters you are fighting :)

     

     

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    DCU is probably as close to p2p as you get without playing wow while still having the free option and people still complain and make the same stupid arguments about free to play games.

    If EQN follows the same pay model as DCU did it will be another game that is as fair to the players as any free to play or pay to play game gets. So yes, SOEs f2p model will work for eqn.

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