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Steam Charts - Official numbers from Steam

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  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by xzyax
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by xzyax
    Originally posted by SyrusSyi
    You can not really go by those numbers or charts from steam because that isn't the only way to play the game. Steam is not required to play the game, so a majority of the people might not be using steam to play.

    I do not believe that anyone has stated that the numbers from the officially recognized Steam Charts link:

    http://steamcharts.com/app/227400#All

     

    In any way, constitutes the entire player-base population of DarkFall: Unholy Wars.  If someone did make that claim... they would be incorrect.

     

    What the link above and this thread does show is the highest peak number of players using Steam to play DarkFall: Unholy Wars for each day.  The numbers are recorded in a simple manner and then show the change from that same day on the previous week.  I think the title of this thread, and the titles of the tables reflect all of that very clearly.  

    The numbers in this thread are easily verifiable for anyone who wants to click on the link and check the numbers themselves.  They  are officially recognized by Aventurine and Steam, a partner of Aventurine that they purposefully sought out to help deliver DarkFall: Unholy Wars.

     

    If you do not believe the numbers to be accurate, you should voice your concern to Steam and Aventurine... since they are the ones responsible for producing and verifying the numbers.  If you find a mistake in my copy-n-paste of the numbers into the tables in this thread, please point it out and I will be happy to correct them.

    Thanks.  image

     

     

    The steam numbers are completely useless.  You can't even use the numbers to see a trend of steam users because as time goes on you will have people just start logging in through Darkfall client directly.

    I disagree.

    How do you verify what I high-lighted above?

    That is your opinion... which is fine, but again, it is JUST your opinion. 

    Like it or not, those are the officially supported numbers from Steam and Aventurine.

     

    As an interesting discussion point though, what do you base your opinion above on?  Why would Aventurine go through all the trouble of joining with Steam if it is so unnecessary?  Wouldn't that time have been better spent in finishing a lot of the missing features in DF:UW?  

    Someone at Aventurine obviously disagrees with your assessment; otherwise why did they go through all the trouble?

    Not sure I understand your point and what it has to do with what I said.  The only numbers we know as fact are clan numbers and steam numbers.  However, clan numbers don't take into account people who have unsubbed and the steam numbers don't show the number of steam users who decide to log in directly through the game client.  So using these numbers in any shape or form is invalid.  I can understand using something like xfire numbers to show a trend, but you cant do the same thing for steam for the reasons mentioned above.  For all we know, thousands of people have bought this game through steam but are playing directly through the darkfall client.

  • LustmordLustmord Mt. Gilead, OHPosts: 1,095Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by xzyax
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by xzyax
    Originally posted by SyrusSyi
    You can not really go by those numbers or charts from steam because that isn't the only way to play the game. Steam is not required to play the game, so a majority of the people might not be using steam to play.

    I do not believe that anyone has stated that the numbers from the officially recognized Steam Charts link:

    http://steamcharts.com/app/227400#All

     

    In any way, constitutes the entire player-base population of DarkFall: Unholy Wars.  If someone did make that claim... they would be incorrect.

     

    What the link above and this thread does show is the highest peak number of players using Steam to play DarkFall: Unholy Wars for each day.  The numbers are recorded in a simple manner and then show the change from that same day on the previous week.  I think the title of this thread, and the titles of the tables reflect all of that very clearly.  

    The numbers in this thread are easily verifiable for anyone who wants to click on the link and check the numbers themselves.  They  are officially recognized by Aventurine and Steam, a partner of Aventurine that they purposefully sought out to help deliver DarkFall: Unholy Wars.

     

    If you do not believe the numbers to be accurate, you should voice your concern to Steam and Aventurine... since they are the ones responsible for producing and verifying the numbers.  If you find a mistake in my copy-n-paste of the numbers into the tables in this thread, please point it out and I will be happy to correct them.

    Thanks.  image

     

     

    The steam numbers are completely useless.  You can't even use the numbers to see a trend of steam users because as time goes on you will have people just start logging in through Darkfall client directly.

    I disagree.

    How do you verify what I high-lighted above?

    That is your opinion... which is fine, but again, it is JUST your opinion. 

    Like it or not, those are the officially supported numbers from Steam and Aventurine.

     

    As an interesting discussion point though, what do you base your opinion above on?  Why would Aventurine go through all the trouble of joining with Steam if it is so unnecessary?  Wouldn't that time have been better spent in finishing a lot of the missing features in DF:UW?  

    Someone at Aventurine obviously disagrees with your assessment; otherwise why did they go through all the trouble?

    Not sure I understand your point and what it has to do with what I said.  The only numbers we know as fact are clan numbers and steam numbers.  However, clan numbers don't take into account people who have unsubbed and the steam numbers don't show the number of steam users who decide to log in directly through the game client.  So using these numbers in any shape or form is invalid.  I can understand using something like xfire numbers to show a trend, but you cant do the same thing for steam for the reasons mentioned above.  For all we know, thousands of people have bought this game through steam but are playing directly through the darkfall client.

     

    Exactly. It has been stated multiple times in this thread that many Steam Users do not launch the client through Steam, because the game performs better if you launch the client directly.

     

    I wish the OP would stop bumping his own thread. It has been discussed to death that the steam numbers are misleading and invalid.

  • xzyaxxzyax Fargo, NDPosts: 2,459Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by xzyax
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by xzyax
    Originally posted by SyrusSyi
    You can not really go by those numbers or charts from steam because that isn't the only way to play the game. Steam is not required to play the game, so a majority of the people might not be using steam to play.

    I do not believe that anyone has stated that the numbers from the officially recognized Steam Charts link:

    http://steamcharts.com/app/227400#All

     

    In any way, constitutes the entire player-base population of DarkFall: Unholy Wars.  If someone did make that claim... they would be incorrect.

     

    What the link above and this thread does show is the highest peak number of players using Steam to play DarkFall: Unholy Wars for each day.  The numbers are recorded in a simple manner and then show the change from that same day on the previous week.  I think the title of this thread, and the titles of the tables reflect all of that very clearly.  

    The numbers in this thread are easily verifiable for anyone who wants to click on the link and check the numbers themselves.  They  are officially recognized by Aventurine and Steam, a partner of Aventurine that they purposefully sought out to help deliver DarkFall: Unholy Wars.

     

    If you do not believe the numbers to be accurate, you should voice your concern to Steam and Aventurine... since they are the ones responsible for producing and verifying the numbers.  If you find a mistake in my copy-n-paste of the numbers into the tables in this thread, please point it out and I will be happy to correct them.

    Thanks.  image

     

     

    The steam numbers are completely useless.  You can't even use the numbers to see a trend of steam users because as time goes on you will have people just start logging in through Darkfall client directly.

    I disagree.

    How do you verify what I high-lighted above?

    That is your opinion... which is fine, but again, it is JUST your opinion. 

    Like it or not, those are the officially supported numbers from Steam and Aventurine.

     

    As an interesting discussion point though, what do you base your opinion above on?  Why would Aventurine go through all the trouble of joining with Steam if it is so unnecessary?  Wouldn't that time have been better spent in finishing a lot of the missing features in DF:UW?  

    Someone at Aventurine obviously disagrees with your assessment; otherwise why did they go through all the trouble?

    Not sure I understand your point and what it has to do with what I said.  The only numbers we know as fact are clan numbers and steam numbers.  However, clan numbers don't take into account people who have unsubbed and the steam numbers don't show the number of steam users who decide to log in directly through the game client.  So using these numbers in any shape or form is invalid.  I can understand using something like xfire numbers to show a trend, but you cant do the same thing for steam for the reasons mentioned above.  For all we know, thousands of people have bought this game through steam but are playing directly through the darkfall client.

    The part high-lighted above is again, your opinion.  It is not something that can be verified.

    I do not believe that anyone has every tried to equate the numbers show in the Steam Charts as a relation to the number of people who have purchased DF:UW; whether it be through Steam or directly from Aventurine.

    As far as I know, you are the first person who is asserting that the numbers are somehow related.

     

    You need to remember what the Steam Charts numbers reflect.

    They show the highest peak number each day of players who are using Steam to play DF:UW.  This thread and the tables I have created reflect the numbers from the link below exactly:

    http://steamcharts.com/app/227400#All

    The +/- column merely reflects the change from the same day of the previous week.

     

    So, if I understand you correctly... it is your contention that when we see the daily numbers decrease, it is not necessarily because a player has decided to stop playing DF:UW; but merely because they decided to stop playing through Steam, and are now playing through the DF:UW client directly.

    That is an interesting theory, and one that is probably not possible for us to prove one way or the other.  

     

    That being said though; then you must also accept the opposite situation.

    If the daily numbers increase... it is not necessarily because more players started playing DF:UW; but merely because they had previously purchased it on Steam, but stopped; and then decided to start playing through Steam again.

    Edit: Or, that they had previously purchased it through Steam, but had always used the DF:UW client directly, but now decided to start playing through Steam instead.

     

    So, are you fine with using the same logic for both situations?

    Or, are you just wanting to throw out the numbers as long as they are trending downward?

    If in a few months they are trending upward, are you going to be consistent with your theory?  image

  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member
    Originally posted by BrownAle
    Originally posted by xzyax
    Originally posted by uofa13l
    Remember steam was not available till almost a month after launch so i would guess at least 10-20x players are not logging in through steam.

    Just an FYI:  

    DarkFall: Unholy Wars launched April 16th, 2013

    https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?362954-Annoucement-Darkfall-Unholy-Wars-is-Live

     

    DarkFall: Unholy Wars was available through Steam on April 25th, 2013

    https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?365474-Darkfall-Unholy-Wars-Also-available-on-Steam

     

    So... 9 days.  

    Just trying to keep the information accurate.   image

    I honestly don't think the game will pick up on steam, most on steam seem to value a free game over fun entertainment, while at the same time expect flawless polish and customer service with that price tag of zero.  Its the first time the game has been advertised though and hopefully it being on steam will get people to visit the main website and give it a try...that is if the 4 guys bashing the game on steam 24/7 don't scare them away...either way its more advertisement than they ever had in the past, which cant hurt.

    I couldn't disagree with this more.

     

    I buy EVERYTHING I can on steam so that I have one collective source to install from.  Makes life so much easier with multiple computers or when you just want to wipe out everything.

     

    To me it's just a bit more intelligent to have a service that keeps track of all those idiotic DRM methods that have been introduced over the years.  I don't have to have 100s of boxes lying around or CD/DVD/Bluray all over the place, I just download steam, login, install, and play.

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

    image

  • xzyaxxzyax Fargo, NDPosts: 2,459Member
    Originally posted by Cirin
    Originally posted by BrownAle
    Originally posted by xzyax
    Originally posted by uofa13l
    Remember steam was not available till almost a month after launch so i would guess at least 10-20x players are not logging in through steam.

    Just an FYI:  

    DarkFall: Unholy Wars launched April 16th, 2013

    https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?362954-Annoucement-Darkfall-Unholy-Wars-is-Live

     

    DarkFall: Unholy Wars was available through Steam on April 25th, 2013

    https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?365474-Darkfall-Unholy-Wars-Also-available-on-Steam

     

    So... 9 days.  

    Just trying to keep the information accurate.   image

    I honestly don't think the game will pick up on steam, most on steam seem to value a free game over fun entertainment, while at the same time expect flawless polish and customer service with that price tag of zero.  Its the first time the game has been advertised though and hopefully it being on steam will get people to visit the main website and give it a try...that is if the 4 guys bashing the game on steam 24/7 don't scare them away...either way its more advertisement than they ever had in the past, which cant hurt.

    I couldn't disagree with this more.

     

    I buy EVERYTHING I can on steam so that I have one collective source to install from.  Makes life so much easier with multiple computers or when you just want to wipe out everything.

     

    To me it's just a bit more intelligent to have a service that keeps track of all those idiotic DRM methods that have been introduced over the years.  I don't have to have 100s of boxes lying around or CD/DVD/Bluray all over the place, I just download steam, login, install, and play.

    I agree totally Cirin.

     

    Steam is a great place to have access to any game you have purchased, but might not necessarily always have it installed.  

     

  • xzyaxxzyax Fargo, NDPosts: 2,459Member
    Weekend numbers are up.  Tables are updated.
  • MrBootsMrBoots a, ALPosts: 277Member
    Originally posted by BrownAle

    IMO its more accurate to count up the clanned memebers in game and use that to track.  Its nice to see steam is at least adding some people though...however...steam launcher has had issues and most have chosen to use the real launcher and not play through steam.

     

    A lot of people don't understand that a vast majority of players don't use steam to play the game and think the game has like 300 players because of it.

     

    Does counting clanned people account for 1/3 (even more leaving when their sub runs out in a few days) of my clan quitting the game? The leader of my clan refuses to remove them just in case they come back someday.

  • LustmordLustmord Mt. Gilead, OHPosts: 1,095Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MrBoots
    Originally posted by BrownAle

    IMO its more accurate to count up the clanned memebers in game and use that to track.  Its nice to see steam is at least adding some people though...however...steam launcher has had issues and most have chosen to use the real launcher and not play through steam.

     

    A lot of people don't understand that a vast majority of players don't use steam to play the game and think the game has like 300 players because of it.

     

    Does counting clanned people account for 1/3 (even more leaving when their sub runs out in a few days) of my clan quitting the game? The leader of my clan refuses to remove them just in case they come back someday.

    Even so, it's better than using Steam Charts, because people who use Steam have been advised to NOT USE STEAM, and instead download the client to improve performance.

     

    [mod edit]
  • MrBootsMrBoots a, ALPosts: 277Member
    Originally posted by Lustmord

    Even so, it's better than using Steam Charts, because people who use Steam have been advised to NOT USE STEAM, and instead download the client to improve performance.

     

    [mod edit]

    I think the safest thing to say is that there's no accurate method of measuring the game's population. Steam and clan counts are a joke. The only way to get a real indication of the server's health is to look around. There are less people out there killing mobs on a daily basis. Most player cities are still empty. The number of new posts on the forums has dropped significantly over the last few weeks. The safe zones cities are still fairly populated, but the safezone mob spawns are mostly empty now.
    A third of my clan that has almost 90 members has stopped playing the game. That tells me that very few new players are coming into the game, and the game is steadily bleeding veteran players.

  • xzyaxxzyax Fargo, NDPosts: 2,459Member
    Originally posted by MrBoots
    Originally posted by Lustmord

    Even so, it's better than using Steam Charts, because people who use Steam have been advised to NOT USE STEAM, and instead download the client to improve performance.

     

    [mod edit]

    I think the safest thing to say is that there's no accurate method of measuring the game's population. Steam and clan counts are a joke. The only way to get a real indication of the server's health is to look around. There are less people out there killing mobs on a daily basis. Most player cities are still empty. The number of new posts on the forums has dropped significantly over the last few weeks. The safe zones cities are still fairly populated, but the safezone mob spawns are mostly empty now.
    A third of my clan that has almost 90 members has stopped playing the game. That tells me that very few new players are coming into the game, and the game is steadily bleeding veteran players.

    What do you think Aventurine could do to fix the problem you identified above, in your opinion of course?

     

     

  • SpeiberbobSpeiberbob MunichPosts: 233Member

    This game IS bleeding players, the steamnumbers are not 100%´representing but they are a sign.

     

    As x-fire is a sign, always people came and write.. nOOOO x-fire isnt a good messure,

    thats the wrong gamers ect ect.

    Well it is in a way, i have seen it all  to offen. Over time  i saw min 10 games going down like this,

    x-fire peaks indicated that.

    Dosent mean they will shut down servers, but it will  be a lonely world soon if Av dosent come up with some good ideas

    and patch them in fast.

    Mark my words ;P

    ____________________
    It`s alright

    AC2,AO,D&L,Lotro,VsoH,SWG,Uo,HGL,Drunners,CoH,GW,Potbs,PWI
    Eq2,Dofus,WoW,WWIIO,Ryzom,Planetside,EvE,TR,DDO,RFonline,FOM,VC,..etc blabla
    also hobbies....staring at loadingbars

  • xzyaxxzyax Fargo, NDPosts: 2,459Member
    Originally posted by Speiberbob

    This game IS bleeding players, the steamnumbers are not 100%´representing but they are a sign.

     

    As x-fire is a sign, always people came and write.. nOOOO x-fire isnt a good messure,

    thats the wrong gamers ect ect.

    Well it is in a way, i have seen it all  to offen. Over time  i saw min 10 games going down like this,

    x-fire peaks indicated that.

    Dosent mean they will shut down servers, but it will  be a lonely world soon if Av dosent come up with some good ideas

    and patch them in fast.

    Mark my words ;P

    Thanks for the insight.

     

    I think that just like anything else it is good to try and get info from different sources.  Steam Charts is just one of those sources.  Aventurine thought highly enough of Steam to seek them out and add them as a partner.  Aventurine knew that Steam would make available these official Steam Charts to the public.  Since they haven't denounced them... I can only assume that they are accurate for what they are supposed to show.

    Exactly how relevant, or to what degree they are a snapshot of the entire DF:UW playerbase... that is a topic that will always be up for debate.  

  • SpeiberbobSpeiberbob MunichPosts: 233Member

    i would wish that a game like this, (hardcore pvp + full loot , building ect)

    would grow strong  and gets a huge following like war Z

    But imho AV did drop the ball a second time,

    It need huge amounts of money today to make an addictiv game like that,

    also it attracts a huge amount in % of players botting and cheatings as it is so competitive

    A niche product , which would need best coders and vets of gamemaking to make it float

    and make it  keep numbers.

    AV made to many promises that they just cant serve

    not with the money they have

    I hope they get it but the game *dark n light showed me its realy realy hard for the devs.

    That there are just not enough gamers ..players who pay a company to build a game like that,

    maybe archage ..its time

     

     

    ____________________
    It`s alright

    AC2,AO,D&L,Lotro,VsoH,SWG,Uo,HGL,Drunners,CoH,GW,Potbs,PWI
    Eq2,Dofus,WoW,WWIIO,Ryzom,Planetside,EvE,TR,DDO,RFonline,FOM,VC,..etc blabla
    also hobbies....staring at loadingbars

  • HotjazzHotjazz BalsfjordPosts: 742Member
    Originally posted by xzyax
    Originally posted by MrBoots

    very few new players are coming into the game, and the game is steadily bleeding veteran players.

    What do you think Aventurine could do to fix the problem you identified above, in your opinion of course?

    First we have to agree what is Darkfalls force. Why do we want to play Darkfall?

     

    If we look at all the post and youtube videos, it clearly is PVP. We don`t see anyone uploding videos where they kill 150 trolls and hail this as the most fun they have had in years. Darkfall didn`t ruin our mmo experience because it is so great to kill trolls for days, the pvp did. So in my opinion, AV need to focus on the pvp. We will get sea fortress and monolitts to fight over in a few months, and that might satisfy the vets.

     

    How to get new player to the game is the hard part. How do we convince players to grind NPCs (without any loot), naked and equipped with a blessed weapon for months. I don`t think we can. I can`t tell my friends to do the 180 kill quest for months, if they only want to play the fun part of DFUW.

     

    This is what I would have done.

    Sieges, sea fortress, villages and monolitts can only go live in server prime time.

    Give huge PP reward for the first four feats. Kill 30 zombies get 10000 pp etc. Cap diminishing returns on 40 k pp, not 6,5 k. This would make casual and ADD players pvp viable fast. If some wanted more PP, they could kill NPCs naked with a blessed weapons for a few months or harvest.

     

    This would bring alot of casual players, more pvp and more fun. We would still have a long term goal for those who wants more than one role. When i log on in the evening, I want to pvp. If I have to run around in an empty world looking for pvp, I`ll quit and play WOT.

  • RollieJoeRollieJoe Raleigh, NCPosts: 436Member

    I tried DF: UW for about 4 hours before deciding not to play anymore (luckily a friend let me use their acct. to try the game).

     

    My main reason personally was that in a supposedly PvP-centric game, actual progression was purely PvE / Crafting.   Even in games like WoW I can A) fully level up my character to max and B) get some of the best items in the game without having to do any PvE or crafting.  It strikes my as absolutely crazy that a game like DF:UW has 99% less PvP progression than a game like WoW.

     

    The problem is compounded by the fact that the PvE felt clunky, lacking the Sim feel of a game like Mount and Blade while at the same time lacking the action feel of a game like TERA, or the ease of a game like WoW.  Basically while it was functional, it had no strong points.

     

    So TL:DR - being forced to do poorly designed and boring PvE to progress in a game that's supposed to be PvP made me quit.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by Hotjazz

    First we have to agree what is Darkfalls force. Why do we want to play Darkfall?

     

    If we look at all the post and youtube videos, it clearly is PVP. We don`t see anyone uploding videos where they kill 150 trolls and hail this as the most fun they have had in years. Darkfall didn`t ruin our mmo experience because it is so great to kill trolls for days, the pvp did. So in my opinion, AV need to focus on the pvp. We will get sea fortress and monolitts to fight over in a few months, and that might satisfy the vets.

     

    How to get new player to the game is the hard part. How do we convince players to grind NPCs (without any loot), naked and equipped with a blessed weapon for months. I don`t think we can. I can`t tell my friends to do the 180 kill quest for months, if they only want to play the fun part of DFUW.

     

    This is what I would have done.

    Sieges, sea fortress, villages and monolitts can only go live in server prime time.

    Give huge PP reward for the first four feats. Kill 30 zombies get 10000 pp etc. Cap diminishing returns on 40 k pp, not 6,5 k. This would make casual and ADD players pvp viable fast. If some wanted more PP, they could kill NPCs naked with a blessed weapons for a few months or harvest.

     

    This would bring alot of casual players, more pvp and more fun. We would still have a long term goal for those who wants more than one role. When i log on in the evening, I want to pvp. If I have to run around in an empty world looking for pvp, I`ll quit and play WOT.

    Why we don't see other videos other then some martial music driven videos how something different then people hacking and shlashing around PvP ?

    =>The playerbase that would have made such videos has been driven away by AV.

    I remember you the creative videos that won prizes in video contest at DF1 by AV showed us

       A)ROLEPLAY

       B) ACTIVITIES OTHER THE SIEGES

    Go back and see winner videos yourself nothing on them was arena style PvP combat. People accept PvP in environment gives em meaning. Only a minority goes out daily for "to have PvP" and bragging rights about it...
    to give PvP meaning you need to wrap it inside a believable^world for PvP to be part of a solution..believable not by looks but by mechanics..

    Rare ressources kept under regional control by a power and violance is needed to get it after political talk has faled wraps PvP in something meaningfull to give you a example.  But AV don't implement local banks and local Ressources to make room for meaning.

    To give you another example, detailed and worked out Racial conficts would have given meaning ..or if not those then real custome player driven kingdoms with borders and taxes for tresspasse and player enetered rules for the area of influence..Everything ignored or shutdown by AV..

    Now if there is exciting PvE then there will videos about it, Kraken videos and dragn videos exist..just there is not much exciting in regards to PvE to make videos about and the PvE hunters left the game because it is ok for them to accept some PvP but if there is nothing exciting gameplay for those they will leave.

     

    Now a personal word..

    Hey Hotjazz ..you assured not long ago that if the game reduced grind thousands over thousands would come back.

    You are wrong eh'? it is the lack of gameplay and sandbox features what the hard numbers prrofed now ..eeh ?

     

     

     

     

     

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by RollieJoe

    I tried DF: UW for about 4 hours before deciding not to play anymore (luckily a friend let me use their acct. to try the game).

     

    My main reason personally was that in a supposedly PvP-centric game, actual progression was purely PvE / Crafting.   Even in games like WoW I can A) fully level up my character to max and B) get some of the best items in the game without having to do any PvE or crafting.  It strikes my as absolutely crazy that a game like DF:UW has 99% less PvP progression than a game like WoW.

     

    The problem is compounded by the fact that the PvE felt clunky, lacking the Sim feel of a game like Mount and Blade while at the same time lacking the action feel of a game like TERA, or the ease of a game like WoW.  Basically while it was functional, it had no strong points.

     

    So TL:DR - being forced to do poorly designed and boring PvE to progress in a game that's supposed to be PvP made me quit.

    I both agree and disagree with you  at the same time.  The implementation of the feat and prowess system is the best thing that has happened to Darkfall.  It is miles better than DF1 and shooting in the air or swimming against a wall.  The prowess system works in that it gets people out in the world doing shit.  That doesn't mean that it can not be tweaked.  I have been clamouring on the forums that the feat bonus should be divided evenly with every mob kill. That way you don't have to complete the whole feat to benefit.  

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by RollieJoe

    I tried DF: UW for about 4 hours before deciding not to play anymore (luckily a friend let me use their acct. to try the game).

     

    My main reason personally was that in a supposedly PvP-centric game, actual progression was purely PvE / Crafting.   Even in games like WoW I can A) fully level up my character to max and B) get some of the best items in the game without having to do any PvE or crafting.  It strikes my as absolutely crazy that a game like DF:UW has 99% less PvP progression than a game like WoW.

     

    The problem is compounded by the fact that the PvE felt clunky, lacking the Sim feel of a game like Mount and Blade while at the same time lacking the action feel of a game like TERA, or the ease of a game like WoW.  Basically while it was functional, it had no strong points.

     

    So TL:DR - being forced to do poorly designed and boring PvE to progress in a game that's supposed to be PvP made me quit.

    I both agree and disagree with you  at the same time.  The implementation of the feat and prowess system is the best thing that has happened to Darkfall.  It is miles better than DF1 and shooting in the air or swimming against a wall.  The prowess system works in that it gets people out in the world doing shit.  That doesn't mean that it can not be tweaked.  I have been clamouring on the forums that the feat bonus should be divided evenly with every mob kill. That way you don't have to complete the whole feat to benefit.  

    The feature system might bee a step forward but it propagates a themepark progress..

    You doing something to enable some "end content" in the said end and then you never wont do it again..thats themepark way of thinking...

    You have to implement such a world with activities you doing everyday and thats  "endgame content" from day one ..you just get more versatile and efficient in doing such activities over time...THATS sandbox way of design...

    Of course it would mean for DF you make exciting PvE to attract hunters which can become prey to bandits what encourages hunters to hire merchants guards etc etc you get the sandbox way of design your game at this point i think....

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by RollieJoe

    I tried DF: UW for about 4 hours before deciding not to play anymore (luckily a friend let me use their acct. to try the game).

     

    My main reason personally was that in a supposedly PvP-centric game, actual progression was purely PvE / Crafting.   Even in games like WoW I can A) fully level up my character to max and B) get some of the best items in the game without having to do any PvE or crafting.  It strikes my as absolutely crazy that a game like DF:UW has 99% less PvP progression than a game like WoW.

     

    The problem is compounded by the fact that the PvE felt clunky, lacking the Sim feel of a game like Mount and Blade while at the same time lacking the action feel of a game like TERA, or the ease of a game like WoW.  Basically while it was functional, it had no strong points.

     

    So TL:DR - being forced to do poorly designed and boring PvE to progress in a game that's supposed to be PvP made me quit.

    I both agree and disagree with you  at the same time.  The implementation of the feat and prowess system is the best thing that has happened to Darkfall.  It is miles better than DF1 and shooting in the air or swimming against a wall.  The prowess system works in that it gets people out in the world doing shit.  That doesn't mean that it can not be tweaked.  I have been clamouring on the forums that the feat bonus should be divided evenly with every mob kill. That way you don't have to complete the whole feat to benefit.  

    The feature system might bee a step forward but it propagates a themepark progress..

    You doing something to enable some "end content" in the said end and then you never wont do it again..thats themepark way of thinking...

    You have to implement such a world with activities you doing everyday and thats  "endgame content" from day one ..you just get more versatile and efficient in doing such activities over time...THATS sandbox way of design...

    Of course it would mean for DF you make exciting PvE to attract hunters which can become prey to bandits what encourages hunters to hire merchants guards etc etc you get the sandbox way of design your game at this point i think....

    That's a bit of a stretch to call this theme park like progression.  I don't know of any one hour old characters in wow that can contribute to end game content?  In darkfall I can do pretty much anything I want right out of the gate and I'm not funnelled into what I can do.  Sure I may not be the most effective right away, but darkfall is a sandbox and allows for it to happen. Once again, the prowess systemis the best thing to happen to Darkfall and it is a few tweaks away from being perfect.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by RollieJoe

    I tried DF: UW for about 4 hours before deciding not to play anymore (luckily a friend let me use their acct. to try the game).

     

    My main reason personally was that in a supposedly PvP-centric game, actual progression was purely PvE / Crafting.   Even in games like WoW I can A) fully level up my character to max and B) get some of the best items in the game without having to do any PvE or crafting.  It strikes my as absolutely crazy that a game like DF:UW has 99% less PvP progression than a game like WoW.

     

    The problem is compounded by the fact that the PvE felt clunky, lacking the Sim feel of a game like Mount and Blade while at the same time lacking the action feel of a game like TERA, or the ease of a game like WoW.  Basically while it was functional, it had no strong points.

     

    So TL:DR - being forced to do poorly designed and boring PvE to progress in a game that's supposed to be PvP made me quit.

    I both agree and disagree with you  at the same time.  The implementation of the feat and prowess system is the best thing that has happened to Darkfall.  It is miles better than DF1 and shooting in the air or swimming against a wall.  The prowess system works in that it gets people out in the world doing shit.  That doesn't mean that it can not be tweaked.  I have been clamouring on the forums that the feat bonus should be divided evenly with every mob kill. That way you don't have to complete the whole feat to benefit.  

    The feature system might bee a step forward but it propagates a themepark progress..

    You doing something to enable some "end content" in the said end and then you never wont do it again..thats themepark way of thinking...

    You have to implement such a world with activities you doing everyday and thats  "endgame content" from day one ..you just get more versatile and efficient in doing such activities over time...THATS sandbox way of design...

    Of course it would mean for DF you make exciting PvE to attract hunters which can become prey to bandits what encourages hunters to hire merchants guards etc etc you get the sandbox way of design your game at this point i think....

    That's a bit of a stretch to call this theme park like progression.  I don't know of any one hour old characters in wow that can contribute to end game content?  In darkfall I can do pretty much anything I want right out of the gate and I'm not funnelled into what I can do.  Sure I may not be the most effective right away, but darkfall is a sandbox and allows for it to happen. Once again, the prowess systemis the best thing to happen to Darkfall and it is a few tweaks away from being perfect.

    No i think you didn't got what i call themepark..

    A feature says :  "Go kill 150 Ciel feys" for example..this i will do just 1 time and i have to do it to unlock that feature..i dont think i would do it if that wasnt the point of the feature (to kill 150 ciel feys) but i am sure i won't do it again as it sounds repetitive and will be striked out anyway in my features list...

    Thats not sandbox conent..it reminds themepark content...it is just covered by that you can have multiple features active from different fields that cover the themeparkish idea behind this...

    Sandbox content fits within the enviroment and game mechanics ( need to craft a doormat  that needs feather from 10 ciel feys which let me go out find and hunt those ciel feys and next time i need a doormat i do it again or find another way to get my doormat made)

     

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • DamediusDamedius Calgary, ABPosts: 346Member
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden
     

    No i think you didn't got what i call themepark..

    A feature says :  "Go kill 150 Ciel feys" for example..this i will do just 1 time and i have to do it to unlock that feature..i dont think i would do it if that wasnt the point of the feature (to kill 150 ciel feys) but i am sure i won't do it again as it sounds repetitive and will be striked out anyway in my features list...

    Thats not sandbox conent..it reminds themepark content...it is just covered by that you can have multiple features active from different fields that cover the themeparkish idea behind this...

    Sandbox content fits within the enviroment and game mechanics ( need to craft a doormat  that needs feather from 10 ciel feys which let me go out find and hunt those ciel feys and next time i need a doormat i do it again or find another way to get my doormat made)

     

    So Darkfall is a sandbox then. 

    I will keep going to kill gnolls and beastmen for leather.

  • BrownAleBrownAle fantasyland, MEPosts: 399Member
    Originally posted by Damedius
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden
     

    No i think you didn't got what i call themepark..

    A feature says :  "Go kill 150 Ciel feys" for example..this i will do just 1 time and i have to do it to unlock that feature..i dont think i would do it if that wasnt the point of the feature (to kill 150 ciel feys) but i am sure i won't do it again as it sounds repetitive and will be striked out anyway in my features list...

    Thats not sandbox conent..it reminds themepark content...it is just covered by that you can have multiple features active from different fields that cover the themeparkish idea behind this...

    Sandbox content fits within the enviroment and game mechanics ( need to craft a doormat  that needs feather from 10 ciel feys which let me go out find and hunt those ciel feys and next time i need a doormat i do it again or find another way to get my doormat made)

     

    So Darkfall is a sandbox then. 

    I will keep going to kill gnolls and beastmen for leather.

    The feat system is really an evolution and expansion of the old DF title quest system.

    The old game was like "if you end up killing 300 goblin scouts 300 goblin fighters and 200 goblin shamans youll get a title that grants you +1 strength" and this would unlock another title quest for harder mobs they would grant you +2 of the stat.  You could only have one title active at a time and it wasn't a huge deal.

    The point of killing mobs should be more item based, as In I need resources and materials from the mobs...the number killed should be moot, because its an ever expanding need for items as items break or are looted from you. 

     

    So the non tryhard way to do feats is to basically play the game.  You get bonuses for killing mobs, gathering resources, crafting gear when you do it a lot.  Now most people, being incredibly low IQ, sit there and do something they HATE over and over for a little prowress...and they don't take a sandbox approach to it all.

    Now we could argue that there isn't enough reason to farm mobs simply for their drops, outside of mobs that skin for leather and drop rare mats, portal shards, rune stones, possibly large maps and primal materials....might sound like im being sarcastic but they need to get enchanting back in the game asap and add more reasons to farm mobs.

     

    Anyway. Like every game...the dumb try to race to endgame even if its not entertaining for them to do this. Only this game isn't built for that gameplay...unless you enjoy it..and some do. This is why you see people bitching about no content in this game and EVERY sandbox, or at least true sandboxes.  IF you lack the imagination and self made motives a sandbox is nothing more than a square pit of sand with nothing to do..this is why they make games that hold your hand and feed you reason (despite the reason is typically get to endgame asap and dominate or quit)

     

    Personally, killing each mob type 180 times isn't a huge deal for me, and theres a lot of overlapping feats...its enough time to see exactly what the mob drops and to decide if its worth returning after the feat is done.

     

  • HotjazzHotjazz BalsfjordPosts: 742Member
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    Now a personal word..

    Hey Hotjazz ..you assured not long ago that if the game reduced grind thousands over thousands would come back.

    You are wrong eh'? it is the lack of gameplay and sandbox features what the hard numbers prrofed now ..eeh ?

    I don`t  make up imaginary games, I try to focus on what we have.

     

    Sure i would loved a game that was a mix of UO and EVE, but AV didn`t make that game.  I know DFUW is a shallow version of DF1, but I also know AV will implement the missing parts from DF1. Right now, all we got is a shell of a game. We can kill naked farmers, kill NPCs or siege, and  I don`t think this will be enough to get any new players or keep the old. I also don`t think regional banking, races or hard to get resources would have given us more players.

     

    The grind is better than DF1, but still a chore. It is not only the the killing of NPCs that is boring, it is the way it is done. Most kill the NPCs because of the kill quests, not because of the drops. They also do it naked with a blessed weapon. Can you think of a more boring grind than that?  No lore, no fun and no risk.

     

    The large scale pvp is better than anything I`ve played, and that is what AV should focus on. That`s why I want new players to get one role fast. Sieges, sea fortress and monolitts in prime time would give the casual players a reason to log on. PVP would happen and all of us are happy. Then AV could focus on making the game more sandbox and please players like you.

     

    You are mad you didn`t get the right cake, I`m just hoping I`ll get a cake.

  • badbingo10badbingo10 peeking duck, ALPosts: 46Member
    Someone message me when the population reaches 0 and AV re-release the original (couple of months tops). BTW im immune to the flames im likely to get for pointing out the inevitable, i've been on forumfall.
  • BrownAleBrownAle fantasyland, MEPosts: 399Member
    Originally posted by badbingo10
    Someone message me when the population reaches 0 and AV re-release the original (couple of months tops). BTW im immune to the flames im likely to get for pointing out the inevitable, i've been on forumfall.

    Wont happen.

     

    DF1 is dead, less people were interested in it than DFUW.  Get over it move on please.

     

    This game shuts down and all you got left is Mortal Online.

     

This discussion has been closed.