It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
The lack of customization is another nail in the coffin already. Pretty much every Warhammer game has pretty much given you the ability to customize and said have fun...to strangely LOCK you to one chapter is annoying and really stupid. They talk about how "so for the most part the players ARE the content", how do they make the content if you don't let them be able to customize and restrict them SO much.
The other nail is the obviously BLATANT P2W in every literal sense. AND THEY DIDN"T EVEN TRY TO HIDE THAT FACT.
It's already flawed from the start.
People who don't want to play orks will obviously buy their way to the faction of their choice...I.E. Space Marine. The ratios will be DESTROYED from day one. When you give one faction the OBVIOUS advantage over the other...people will PLAY THAT FACTION. It's not rocket science...plus people want to play the Space Marines or Chaos or Eldar. While the idea of F2P Orks was great and all it was great on paper not in practice. People will buy themselves out of Orks and into the most powerful factions and in the end orks will be the obvious underpowered and pointless race and will die out.
Personally I got thrilled when I heard it was going to be Dark Angels, as I'm a DA boy.
2 years is a long time, and much can happen during that. So I would not se surprised to see other chapter later on.
And like many others, I'm not too keen on this F2P model where if you want to play anything else then Orkz you have to cahs up.
Although, since it's a F2P, I hope they speak of a 1time payment. If so, I cant see why all the fuss.
As long as I dont need to pay monthly to unlock a race it's better then a subscription and I can save money in the long run.
Well, those are few of my personal thoughts.
EVE Online 21Days Trial
Originally posted by shantideva Originally posted by kraiz DAMNIT! Give me Tau now!
hopefully they will be npc cannonfodder like Tyranids and I suspect Necrons
I think this is part of their business strategy: 4 main races to launch for the core game system. If the numbers and legs warrant it they'll then add more WH40K Armies to expand the game as it'll be modular in terms of expanding and rotating battle grounds. Good plan. And Tau are awesome sauce. 'Nids would be a good Premium account: People would pay good money for them.
They do have access to all of the armies, these are just going to be the ones they launch with. Also, keep in mind that almost every MMO coming out in the future will be some form of FTP / Premium. That is the world we now live in and it is not changing any time soon.
The combat designs in theory are some of the best I have heard of for a 40K MMO yet. Plus the fact that it is planetary control PvP with some PVE thrown in is really awesome.
The core dev team are all table top players.
Everyone is skeptical, but....I think 40K is finally in good hands for MMO development.
I am cautiously optimistic. Interestingly, the model they are proposing is actually very similar to what I had hoped they would do with the WH40k world; PvP centered, distinct classes, strategic objectives, orders and chains of command, etc., etc.
What I really like about what they are doing is putting the essence of the WH40k world ahead of the stock MMORPG model. To the extent that the MMORPG model works with WH40k they are keeping it, but to the extent that it doesn't, they are dropping it. That shows a real commitment to the world they are building, which I see as a very positive sign.
One of the most dramatic decisions along those lines is the decision that not all classes will be equal. In the WH40k world, they aren't. Space Marines are far more powerful than Orks, that's how the WH world works. Instead of sticking to the standard MMORPG script (all classes must be perfectly equal!) they started with the WH40k world (Space Marines easily dominate Orks, at least in small numbers), and then tried to figure out how to make it work.
What I find to be astonishing, though, is the reactions here. So many people on these forums claim to be looking for that breakout game that will give up the worn-out WoW model, yet the second a new game deviates from the formula, they complain bitterly. Whether it's the PvP orientation, or a business model that's anything other than a subscription, or an innovative approach to class design, if it deviates from the formula, the complain long and loud.
If you don't start off the game as a level 1 damage-dealer or tank or healer with a 3 DPS sword (whoops, 3 DPS blaster!) and a quest to kill 10 giant rats (whoops, giant *space* rats!), they're not interested. As if there aren't enough reskinned WoW clones out there already . . .
Would I rather play a game with a strong WH40k flavor - even if it means that there are challenges, like most of the content being PvP, classes not being balanced, etc. - than one that looks suspiciously like an outer-space themed WoW reskin? Yes. And I hope I'm not the only one.
Originally posted by achesoma There is so much fail for this concept it's absurd. This developer truly doesn't understand the gamer mentality. Five Orks to kill one marine?! Lol, yeah...that'll work out well. Free or not, no one wants to feel weak or gimped.
Yes, that's the thinking in every other MMORPG up to this point: everyone is the hero, the champion, the superhero. Everyone wants to feel powerful, right?
The problem with that is that when everyone is powerful, no one is. When everyone in the game has the 5000 DPS Sword of the Thousand Truths, no one is special or unique or powerful.
The way you make players feel powerful is by making a lot of players feel un-powerful. I know that that's counter-intuitive, but that's how it works.
Making everyone powerful also leads to total absurdities that have a ruinous effect on lore and role-playing. If a Snotling were an even match for a Space Marine, it wouldn't be Warhammer any more, it would just be a re-skinned World of Warcraft, where goblins wielding daggers are just as powerful as ancient elves in legendary magical armor because, well, the game designers didn't want to hurt the feelings of players who wanted to play goblins. *Everyone* is special and *everyone* is super-powerful, which of course means that no one is.
One postscript: I agree with other people here that they should add other "cannon fodder" roles for F2P players. Guardsmen and Heretics would be great - and as weak as they are, I honestly think they would be fun to play. But no Scouts, please - even the weakest Space Marine Scout is a whole lot more powerful than any Guardsman and most Orks.
Originally posted by garrett They do have access to all of the armies, these are just going to be the ones they launch with. Also, keep in mind that almost every MMO coming out in the future will be some form of FTP / Premium. That is the world we now live in and it is not changing any time soon. The combat designs in theory are some of the best I have heard of for a 40K MMO yet. Plus the fact that it is planetary control PvP with some PVE thrown in is really awesome. The core dev team are all table top players. Everyone is skeptical, but....I think 40K is finally in good hands for MMO development.
Sorry then I don't want the future. F2P games have some of the most scumbag systems of P2W in them to to the point it's not even F2P anymore it's pay2relevance. Not to mention the trash bag community that is spawned thanks to the F2P game. Most other games that are B2P or P2P are pretty good communities...with F2P it's all the mouth breathers and LE MAY MAY spammers trying to be cool. They blatant preached you have to spend money to get P2W mechanics I.E. Space Marines which can some how take on 5 Orks at once...yeah 5 Nobs versus on Space Marine that just bought his armor. Ok.... Sorry but something tells me you're just trying to fan boy defend this game. This is nothing but a small company with a big license.
It is actualy an interesting dynamic they've hit upon. In a generic PvP game the model could well be classified as "P2W". However, in this particular case it actualy fits the IP very well. Low level Orkz are not supposed to be anywhere near the equal of a Space Marine (or Eldar) on an individual basis....it's only in superior numbers that they achieve parity. So that aspect works. The open question is will it be fun enough for non-paying players to play with this built in inbalance to give the game a try and possibly consider upgrading to a more effective character-type? If not, the game could have a problem.
They also might consider putting in the IG on the Imperial side as they follow a similar dynamic for individual troopers (don't know what they'd do for the Eldar).....that way at least the non-paying could have some opponents they could fight 1 on 1 with some level of parity.
Originally posted by Stenchburg I don't really need extra chapters. One mistake these games make is allowing players to dye their armor resulting in lots of ugly colors running around. By keeping one chapter, you can avoid the eyesore of a million chapters running around in a crazy cavalcade of colors. I prefer the military look of uniforms anyway
Then give people Chapters to choice from. These idiots preached "players are the content" yet they restrict them so much. Basically the content is restricted. Plus I don't wanna be a Dark Angel...why can't I pick my chapter? LIKE MOST OTHER WARHAMMER GAMES ALLOWED!
Originally posted by Razeekster Originally posted by TotemicDruid Guys I am hopeful! A game which appears to mirror Planetside, but with the Rich Lore of WH:40K is a fantastic idea, plus it has the added PvE content. With regards to the F2P model, people have to get that life isnt free and things cost money. Do they seriously think the programmers are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts?? A single Ork couldnt take a Space Marine, so lets not get into the idiotic calls for balance, simply because you dont want to sub/pay for a better gaming experience. If any of you know even the slightest bit about the lore of this game its that balance is there, so I dont want to see something similar to "Dude! The emperor just got wasted by an Eldar Guardian"". I played SWG for years and even up to its end, to make way for SWTOR, it never went free to play; which is something SWTOR didnt last 6 months doing. In short if its good pay for it, if you arent that interested, but enjoy a zerg here and there, take advantage of the F2P model? With that said I agree with the above comments that limiting the F2P race may be a tad restrictive. Of the races indicated Imperial Guard, Guardians and Heretics are all an obvious F2P meat-shield replacement
Dude! The emperor just got wasted by an Eldar Guardian!
No, but seriously, if you actually think that barring certain classes in what they're calling a "F2P game" is acceptable then I don't think you understand the difference between F2P and P2P. The company either needs to have a balanced F2P with a fair cash shop (cosmetics only) or it needs to be subscription based.
This thing with being on the rails with what their pay model really is, isn't acceptable.
I know the difference between P2P and F2P but above all the trap of P2W, which is a BIG no no. What I am saying is that this isnt a balanced universe, and nor should someone who is basically putting nothing into the game have a balanced character from the start; and I stress the word "start".
If a F2P player puts the time and graft into the game in order to unlock the entirety of what the game has to offer, by achieving targets, doing quests or generating in game currency then that is what F2P is to me; the persons time in game is what they are putting into it ie they allow for a more active community and that is just as important to a games survival as money.
IMO You either earn it or pay for it, you don't say I have no intention of supporting this game in anyway but give me balance because I want to be AWESOME!! Give me everything because the player paying £9.99 (just a guess) a month shouldn't get more than me because I am AWESOME!! My Guardian just killed the Emperor with F2P starter gear because the game Balance is AWESOME!! Nah I don't think so, let me and a gazillion of my F2P Ork Boyz zerg everywhere!! Let me and my F2P troop put up a wall of Las-fire up to stop those Chaos space marines.........wait whats this I ve been playing for only half an hour and I ve unlocked Space Marine Scout....sweet!
With respect to the payment models, there's a huge difference between payment models, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here, as we don't yet know the full details of the payment system they are planning on using.
The real problem - and I hope most people agree - is a system where you have to constantly dump money into the game to be competitive, and where the more money you dump, the more competitive you are. That's a terrible system, and I don't think anybody here wants to see that.
But that's not what I'm seeing. As far as I can tell, it's a one-time payment per chunk of content being unlocked. But - again, as far as I can tell - everyone who's paid to unlock given content, say the Space Marine faction, is going to be on an equal footing, and won't need to keep dumping money into the game on an ongoing basis to be competitive.
How different is this from a system where you have to pay to unlock content - e.g., in World of Warcraft, where the free version is limited in the number of levels, and you have to pay separately to unlock levels 21-60 (vanilla), 61-70 (Burning Crusade), etc., etc.? (Not sure if I have the levels right, but that's the idea.) I don't think anybody sees that as "P2W", because it's understood that once you pay to unlock the content, you have full access to it, and don't need to keep constantly dumping money into the game to be competitive (well, other than the monthly subscription, of course!).
I really like what I read. Can't say that I'm surprised by the absence of my favorite armies (Imperial Guard and Dark Eldar) but hopefully they make a player-controlled appearance down the road.
My only beef with this is the Tyrannids. At first glance, they seem to be intended as a possible realm population balancing mechanic. That's a good thing, but as I read more and saw "dungeons" I wanted to shoot myself in the foot. Just focus on PvP, drop the ****ing PvE.
"...the grim nightmare of the far future, where there is only war..." I was really glad that the person speaking for the game remembered that quote.
Wait....ONLY Orks for free to play? OK, if Marines or the other races can be bought with one relatively inexpensive micropay, maybe.
If they want a sub for the other races, Fuck. That.
Heck if you're gonna make F2P the gimp race, at least put the Guard in.
This game summed up in one line.
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
WH40K fanboy here and long time mmo player, obviously interested.
I'm not fond of premium games, having been vaccinated with lotro (loved the game until mirkwood, came back for ftp rohan, urgh!), but i think they have a nice twist on the concept/payment model of the game.
Perhaps it would have been more acceptable if they had presented it as "B2P for your race and with a free/endless trial version with orks".
As said before ftp orks fits the lore very nicely, Ork chat should be consistent with Ork slang with all the mmo kiddies and a few btp Nobz trying to rein in some "order".
Hope they can had a ftp for each race: SM/IG, ChaosSM/heretics, Eldar (aspect, seer)/Guardians, Nobz (mek, pain, weird,...)/OrkBoyz. And Necrons as alternative bad guys.
Also the 3 month campaign system is a great idea for renewing the content of the game and giving some purpose to this endless war.
sidenote, I'd like to play a Dark angel but as a fallen Oo and Iron warrior Techmarine should be badass.
Originally posted by Vlacke Originally posted by goofy3k Excited for this glad to see someone else taking on a war 40k MMO. Also I think the free to play Ork Boyz idea is great. And they said its a premium free to play mmo, ie - premium stuff you pay for. Stop complaining and expecting everything to be free and given to you, the same mentality as people who play mmos and expect to be given everything for nothing.
We have a first fanboy of this game, congratulations.
Aside the fact that nobody in this thread said anything about expecting everything to be handed to them for free (so your little rant about that is misplaced and therefore irrelevant) you should know that in a WH40k universe Space Marines aren't considered premium stuff, they are practically the CORE, last time i checked Warhammer 40k didn't gain it's reputation and popularity because people were dazzled by Ork Boyz.
I couldn't help reply given your snide tone towards the person you replied to.
You will find that Space Marines are actually the elite, of the elite, of the elite, of the elite in the Warhammer 40k universe. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The "core" are things like Ork boyz, normal humans (Imperial Guard), Eldar Guardians (their plebs with guns), etc.
So maybe get your geek facts straight before snapping at fellow posters for absolutely no reason.
Originally posted by Gudrunix I am cautiously optimistic. Interestingly, the model they are proposing is actually very similar to what I had hoped they would do with the WH40k world; PvP centered, distinct classes, strategic objectives, orders and chains of command, etc., etc. What I really like about what they are doing is putting the essence of the WH40k world ahead of the stock MMORPG model. To the extent that the MMORPG model works with WH40k they are keeping it, but to the extent that it doesn't, they are dropping it. That shows a real commitment to the world they are building, which I see as a very positive sign. One of the most dramatic decisions along those lines is the decision that not all classes will be equal. In the WH40k world, they aren't. Space Marines are far more powerful than Orks, that's how the WH world works. Instead of sticking to the standard MMORPG script (all classes must be perfectly equal!) they started with the WH40k world (Space Marines easily dominate Orks, at least in small numbers), and then tried to figure out how to make it work. What I find to be astonishing, though, is the reactions here. So many people on these forums claim to be looking for that breakout game that will give up the worn-out WoW model, yet the second a new game deviates from the formula, they complain bitterly. Whether it's the PvP orientation, or a business model that's anything other than a subscription, or an innovative approach to class design, if it deviates from the formula, the complain long and loud. If you don't start off the game as a level 1 damage-dealer or tank or healer with a 3 DPS sword (whoops, 3 DPS blaster!) and a quest to kill 10 giant rats (whoops, giant *space* rats!), they're not interested. As if there aren't enough reskinned WoW clones out there already . . . Would I rather play a game with a strong WH40k flavor - even if it means that there are challenges, like most of the content being PvP, classes not being balanced, etc. - than one that looks suspiciously like an outer-space themed WoW reskin? Yes. And I hope I'm not the only one.
Agree entirely. I must say the idea of a few Marines tooled up to the eyeballs holding off hordes of Orks played also by humans sounds like a total blast - for both sides potentially.
On the other hand, I'm not sure how much fun it will be being an Ork and getting blown to pieces by a Space Marine with little realistic possibility of fighting back. Although the balance will be different, they will have to get it right aswell as Space Marine players may end up playing in God Mode.Only time will tell but its an interesting idea.
I love this model let all the F2P mooches die in hordes to righteous bolter fire
Originally posted by Evaida Originally posted by Vlacke Originally posted by goofy3k Excited for this glad to see someone else taking on a war 40k MMO. Also I think the free to play Ork Boyz idea is great. And they said its a premium free to play mmo, ie - premium stuff you pay for. Stop complaining and expecting everything to be free and given to you, the same mentality as people who play mmos and expect to be given everything for nothing.
Geek facts, good one, i actually laughed, even though you are apparently a bit of a hypocrite talking about snide tones and snapping while doing the same in the process with that condescending tone of yours, try a different approach next time when accusing others of the very same things you seem to be doing as well.
Let me break it down to you since i obviously made a mistake of not being entirely clear on the subject and it hinders the likes of you who have a hard time understanding things.
When i said core i was referring to video games, the thing we talk about the most on these boards, i wasn't referring to books or tabletop games of the vast WH universe, shocking i know.
Fact of the matter is that IN GAMES Space Marines are actually the core, most popular and most used by far, because a very few (if any) would buy or play a WH40k game starring regular humans, plebs with guns or Boyz, maybe you would, which is just fine of course, but the majority wouldn't, therefore it wouldn't make any money which is the prime reason these games are made in the first place.
First thing: Only Ork Boyz are F2P, the rest of the Ork progression tree is purchase unlock to play so the 5 to 1 is strictly referring to F2P players IE Ork Boyz.
Second off: Where do people get off demanding things? Ork Boyz come in many shapes and sizes from the slugga to the shoota to the flyboy to the warbika to the stik bomma, to the 'ard boy (which is an ork boyz attempt at copying space marine armour and weapons, mind you it's not even close but it will still be better than 5 of those vs 1 space marine, it could even be 3 vs 1 and the ork 'ard boyz have heavy chainguns and heavy choppas so they could, with skill, even take on a terminator and have a prayer of winning) and we also have the madboyz and the spanna boyz ( mad boyz are exactly as their name suggests: mad, even by ork standards so they could have higher amounts of hit points and god knows what other perks and the spanna boyz are crafters which work under a Big Mek). So that's exactly how many progression paths open for free? And how much do we know about the item progression? Give the system a chance, see what they're gonna do.
Third off: 1k orks vs a smaller number of players using space marines or whatnot... consider the fact that out of that 1k most will be boyz and most of those boyz will be World of Tanks level special...ists so the space marines/eldar/chaos space marines need only apply their numbers in smarter fashion to even out the odds... use the geography, build fortifications, make sure the orks do not close to close quarters where their inaccuracy and deadly choppas can tip the tide before their numbers are taken down to a more manageable level.
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc Originally posted by Postal13 Oh man, there is going to be a SHITLOAD of Ork Boyz!!!
oh yes just imagine the epicness of shoving ur chainsaw sword in the Freeloaders and kids asses.
Shoving your chainsword up a kid's ass sounds... disturbing... don't let Bladestorm see you...
As excited as big open world PVP through capturing objectives, a little PVE, and ultimately planetary dominance may sound, i really dislike their 5 to 1 approach (5 free to play players needed to kill 1 subscriber ) . Behaviour must forget that there are a lot of "Freeloaders" out there that like to play alone,meaning they have no chance of winning when they encounter a subscriber. Another thing , why only Ork Boyz for Free players? Doesn't make any sense.
Also the three month time limit for planetary dominance will bring a lot of problems (due to competition aka forcing players going subed) and will bring erratic behaviour in-game. If people want to compete in ladders and tournaments there are a lot of MOBAs out there that doing exactly that.
I don't want a second (third?) Planetside 2. I want more like an MMO with deep story and lore, lots of PVE and PVP, many Chapters for each fanction and NO ALLEGIANCE to eachother. Will have it on my radar, but nothing Miguel said managed to convince me that this is the much-wanted Warhammer 40k that i am waiting for .
I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it --Voltaire