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Rift now pay to win

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  • faiyofaiyo |||COL|||1, TNPosts: 123Member

    The term p2w really is being thrown around like nobody's business isn't it? An example of a true Pay to Win game is Allods and Perfect World, games that force you to actually pay to get anywhere past a certain point or be decent.  Pretty sure this doesn't apply to the term, it's more like pay to be lazy. It shouldn't effect anyone but that player, especially if it's entry level.

     

    But whatever, I guess being dramatic is more fun.

  • syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,305Member Uncommon
    I don't see what the big deal is.  It isn't "pay 2 win" in my opinion.  If the only way to obtain the best gear in the game was to buy it with cash, then I would call it a "pay 2 win" game.  If the best gear in the game was purchasable with cash, but obtainable through a very long grind, I still consider that "pay 2 win" but I think that is slightly more acceptable.  Rift doesn't let you buy the best gear in the game with cash.  I think it is a good idea for them to give people a faster path to raiding with their friends instead of attempting to do content that nobody else is interested in doing.  
  • syntax42syntax42 Columbus, OHPosts: 1,305Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by faiyo

    The term p2w really is being thrown around like nobody's business isn't it? An example of a true Pay to Win game is Allods and Perfect World, games that force you to actually pay to get anywhere past a certain point or be decent.  Pretty sure this doesn't apply to the term, it's more like pay to be lazy. It shouldn't effect anyone but that player, especially if it's entry level.

     

    But whatever, I guess being dramatic is more fun.

    Don't forget about Runes of Magic's end-game.  I know people who spent thousands of dollars on that game.

  • SilentstormSilentstorm Rahway, NJPosts: 1,159Member
    I'm more concerned on with loyalty not even working but the shop does lol.........
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon

    this will be the 3rd time I have made this exact comparison in as many weeks.

    In GW2, I can roll a brand new character, I can then visit a site such as GW2 spidy and get the most cost effective guides for leveling crafts.

    Leveling from 1-400 in any craft will get you approximately 10 character levels. There are 8 crafts and thus 80 levels to be had through crafting. Therefore, I can, if I want, buy gems, trade for gold, buy mats and level a new toon to 80. In effect, I can buy a fully leveled character with Gems. And if I am not done there, I can also, if I want, use gems to trade for gold and purchase a full set of exotic gear complete with Runes, As well as fully upgraded trinkets (Except the back piece, that might have to be Rare) I can also purchase any weapon and sigil.

    Now, relatively speaking, Exotic is already best in slot for armor and weapons, and is very very close, statistically, to the ascended gear for Trinkets. How is the quality of the Rift gear in comparison? No where near as good as Exotics in GW2.

     

    So, in Rift, you are comparatively weaker with the gear obtained from real money than you are in GW2. and yet No one (Not even me) will say GW2 is P2W.

    Why?

    Because you cannot win with it!

  • RoootRooot MönchengladbachPosts: 2Member
    Why are people always bragging about pay to win. It's like the OP thinks he is racing against every other player to get the best gear and he doesn't want anybody to get a slightly easier start just because they can afford it. Why can't you just ignore this. It's not like you have any disadvantages
  • nickster29nickster29 Holmen, WIPosts: 486Member

    Just went through the cash shop myself, and I laughed at the gear offerings.  It is all normal dungeon gear, not even the Expert mode gear.

     

    If people wanna toss their cash at gear they could easily have just spent a few hours getting, let em.  It supports Trion and keeps the game running, and the free players doing what they do best.... not spending a single cent.

     

    Only things I saw that I want from the cash shop would be the extra bag slots and extra tradeskill slots.  I will just wait to buy them using in game currency to purchase REX from other players though, no need to spend money on stuff I can just earn in game.

  • noctisglowsnoctisglows rohnert park, CAPosts: 3Member
    Rift may have to option to buy gear but, that is not the point. God people are so afraid of things like this, go and actually spend some time finding stuff instead of talking about the cash shop. The game is fun, enjoy it. I found all my gear quite easily and it was fun, did not spend a dollar on the shop and I do just fine.
  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,830Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arakazi
    Five years ago most of you would be appalled at even the suggestion of gear being sold on a AAA game. Soon people will be able to buy a max level toon and all the best gear. You might laugh, but it will happen.

    My view on the matter is....who cares if someone wants to buy their items. I have never noticed that someone buying items had any impact on my gameplay.

  • PoachinatorPoachinator Mystic, CTPosts: 80Member
    Originally posted by Hatefull

    Literally within 5 minutes of reaching level 60 (max atm) you can buy all the gear you need to raid.  I thought we weren't going pay to win Trion?  what happened there?  I know you can buy your PvP kit as well not sure what impact that will have, but I am sure it won't be all that great.

    Why sell gear at all?  It is so unnecessary, sell mounts, pets, wardrobe and dimension (think housing) items and you will make heaps.  But selling start raiding armor and weapons, to me that is exactly what paytowin is.  

    Just my opinions, I am sure most will disagree, but this game, just broke for me.

    You can buy blue gear giving all the gear you need to run expert dungeons not raid. Big deal.

  • atziluthatziluth Portsmouth, NHPosts: 1,195Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hatefull

    Literally within 5 minutes of reaching level 60 (max atm) you can buy all the gear you need to raid.  I thought we weren't going pay to win Trion?  what happened there?  I know you can buy your PvP kit as well not sure what impact that will have, but I am sure it won't be all that great.

    Why sell gear at all?  It is so unnecessary, sell mounts, pets, wardrobe and dimension (think housing) items and you will make heaps.  But selling start raiding armor and weapons, to me that is exactly what paytowin is.  

    Just my opinions, I am sure most will disagree, but this game, just broke for me.

    Misleading, exaggerated, and not even a hint of objectivity in your post. As you said, you have a right to say what you want within the terms of the board, however others can point out that what you say is untrue. 

     

    Yes, there are is some basic armor pieces for sale. You however neglected to state that they are bottom rung dungeon gear easily accessible to anyone with a guild or willing to stomach a few pugs. The pieces of gear are not really end game as much as lv 60 starter gear.

    So your statement that this gear even remotely makes the game currently Pay to win is completely unfounded and untrue. Now if they start selling gear with stats better than can be obtained in the game or potions which give significant benefits that cannot be obtained through normal play, you will have a leg to stand on. Right now you don't. 

     

    BTW I can say "just my opinion" too... It does not absolve you of outright distorting the facts in order to incite a caustic reaction. 

    -Atziluth-

    - Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member
    here's another person, me, who has also just gone through the Cash Shop: there is nothing there that indicates p2win to me. as someone else noted, if you wana shell out 50 bucks for what would take you a few hours of base level dungeon runs, then fine, have at it. but that gear will not advance you in any serious way towards endgame.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,211Member Uncommon
    I don't really care what someone else does.  They could buy a fully geared level 60 for all I care.  If that's what they want to do and how they want to play why would I poke my nose into their business?  I'll play and pay my way.
  • HellidolHellidol TACOMA, WAPosts: 405Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    this will be the 3rd time I have made this exact comparison in as many weeks.

    In GW2, I can roll a brand new character, I can then visit a site such as GW2 spidy and get the most cost effective guides for leveling crafts.

    Leveling from 1-400 in any craft will get you approximately 10 character levels. There are 8 crafts and thus 80 levels to be had through crafting. Therefore, I can, if I want, buy gems, trade for gold, buy mats and level a new toon to 80. In effect, I can buy a fully leveled character with Gems. And if I am not done there, I can also, if I want, use gems to trade for gold and purchase a full set of exotic gear complete with Runes, As well as fully upgraded trinkets (Except the back piece, that might have to be Rare) I can also purchase any weapon and sigil.

    Now, relatively speaking, Exotic is already best in slot for armor and weapons, and is very very close, statistically, to the ascended gear for Trinkets. How is the quality of the Rift gear in comparison? No where near as good as Exotics in GW2.

     

    So, in Rift, you are comparatively weaker with the gear obtained from real money than you are in GW2. and yet No one (Not even me) will say GW2 is P2W.

    Why?

    Because you cannot win with it!

    What is considers play to win, well IMO I would say being able to advance your self from paying money to get there. If I pay to get gear to help me to getting raider status, then I would say I just saved a ton of time and just won compared to those that have to spend time getting to the same spot I am in the game assuming we both have the same goals. P2W could be a relative term when talking about buying stuff from the AH or from the Company, in both cases if either is neglected that system becomes problematic and with that are robbing the player of the full experience.

    If I am selling something that gives me 100 hp and the company is selling something that gives 1000 hp the choice is easy. They try to justify their stance (the company) by saying you "could" just buy that 100 without real money but they also know hardcore games are going to spend that money on that 1000 hp item with no questions asked.

    Now you can say " well I am hardcore gamer and I just farm up enough of this and that to make this and that" that is fine but most people have jobs and still raid hardcore; this is where normally the farmer would make money but why waste in game money on a lesser item and you cant really farm in game money because you only have time to raid. Instead what happens is the raider/hardcoregamer/dudewithjob ends up buying from the Company with real money every time. This scenario holds true from past experience of  raiders in wow and other similar games.

    In the end you can claim that p2w and f2p are not the same but every which way you look at it the math holds true. How many gamers that raid/play hardcore (meaning 4-8+ a day 5-7 days a week) have jobs and families? Unless someone has a link they can prove me wrong I would use a educated guess and say %70. If that is even remotely close to the percentage then you can see how they are doing unethical practices in some peoples eyes.

    image
  • Slappy1Slappy1 columbus, OHPosts: 458Member

    Every single game that goes ftp,or is btp with a shop seem to attract people saying it's ptw.

    I just don't understand the thinking they have of ptw.If you can obtain the same gear by playing the game,or obtain better gear through playing the game.How in the living h*ll is that ptw?It isn't and many seem to want to try and invent a scenario that is ptw.Sad,just sad as hell.

    The game shop is what trion said it would be,it's not ptw,not even close!

    Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull!

    Arya Stark

  • pmilespmiles Federal Way, WAPosts: 383Member
    Pay to win... lose... draw... whatever... it's free to play.    Who gives a rats ass whether you bought your gear or not... not like you're going to PVP anyways.   The raid bosses don't care... why should you.
  • HellidolHellidol TACOMA, WAPosts: 405Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Slappy1

    Every single game that goes ftp,or is btp with a shop seem to attract people saying it's ptw.

    I just don't understand the thinking they have of ptw.If you can obtain the same gear by playing the game,or obtain better gear through playing the game.How in the living h*ll is that ptw?It isn't and many seem to want to try and invent a scenario that is ptw.Sad,just sad as hell.

    The game shop is what trion said it would be,it's not ptw,not even close!

    Let me break it down Barney style, I can spend money to get something that other people have to spend a Lot ( say 2 weeks) of time to obtain. I can craft a item that takes IRL time ( lets say 2hours) that is (Example item) 1.0xpower item or I can Buy with real money something that is 5xpower item. I can run X instance  10x at 1hour per run and get all the items I need to enjoy end game or I can spend X money on X item and get what I need to be ready to enjoy end game.

    If you cant understand that then I have no clue on earth whom can explain it better, stop associating a negative definition on P2W, it is only toxic if the company designs it so all players cant be on the same playing field regardless of cash shops. If everyone can do X at the same time and effort as it would to buy a item to do X then the cash shop is not unethical. Games like Neverwinter are %100 unethical when it comes to the pricing and the way the cash shops are designed. Games like Rift are %100 wrong and very unethical when it comes to their cash shops.

    image
  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hellidol
    Originally posted by Slappy1

    Every single game that goes ftp,or is btp with a shop seem to attract people saying it's ptw.

    I just don't understand the thinking they have of ptw.If you can obtain the same gear by playing the game,or obtain better gear through playing the game.How in the living h*ll is that ptw?It isn't and many seem to want to try and invent a scenario that is ptw.Sad,just sad as hell.

    The game shop is what trion said it would be,it's not ptw,not even close!

    Let me break it down Barney style,

    I can spend money to get something that other people have to spend a Lot ( say 2 weeks) of time to obtain.

    It would take less than a day to get 'better' gear than what is in the store by either running dungeons or doing PvP.

    I can craft a item that takes IRL time ( lets say 2hours) that is (Example item) 1.0xpower item or I can Buy with real money something that is 5xpower item.

    You can craft better items than what is in the cash shop

    I can run X instance  10x at 1hour per run and get all the items I need to enjoy end game or I can spend X money on X item and get what I need to be ready to enjoy end game.

    Buy the gear from the cash shop and attempt any elite dungeons past the first 3 with a group in all cash shop gear. I dare you.

    If you cant understand that then I have no clue on earth whom can explain it better, stop associating a negative definition on P2W, it is only toxic if the company designs it so all players cant be on the same playing field regardless of cash shops. If everyone can do X at the same time and effort as it would to buy a item to do X then the cash shop is not unethical. Games like Neverwinter are %100 unethical when it comes to the pricing and the way the cash shops are designed. Games like Rift are %100 wrong and very unethical when it comes to their cash shops.

    I broke it down for you Power Ranger style ^

    Player's aren't on the same playing field. Cash shop users are on the losing side. No reason to buy that gear at all other than for the skins.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by Slappy1

    Every single game that goes ftp,or is btp with a shop seem to attract people saying it's ptw.

    I just don't understand the thinking they have of ptw.If you can obtain the same gear by playing the game,or obtain better gear through playing the game.How in the living h*ll is that ptw?It isn't and many seem to want to try and invent a scenario that is ptw.Sad,just sad as hell.

    The game shop is what trion said it would be,it's not ptw,not even close!

    I think for many of us we just associate video games with playing towards an objective, and there was never an option to just pay more money to skip ahead or get an advantage in-game.

     

    My first RPG was the Legend of Zelda, there were parts of it that were difficult for me.  I had to walk the dog every day or I would get a scolding, so I wasn't like all those NO LIFE LOSERS WHO PLAY VIDEO GAMES ALL DAY, I had responsibilities!

     

    It took me a while but I beat the game, and at no time did it ever cross my mind that I should be able to pay Nintendo twenty bucks and get the master sword so I could go kill Ganondorf quicker because you know blahblahblah entitlement.

     

    I don't care what others do to cheat and completely defeat the purpose of playing a video game, I just care when they try and bring change to my games/genre to facilitate it.  I just wish all you Play to Win people had stuck with gold sellers, you belong together.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hellidol
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    this will be the 3rd time I have made this exact comparison in as many weeks.

    In GW2, I can roll a brand new character, I can then visit a site such as GW2 spidy and get the most cost effective guides for leveling crafts.

    Leveling from 1-400 in any craft will get you approximately 10 character levels. There are 8 crafts and thus 80 levels to be had through crafting. Therefore, I can, if I want, buy gems, trade for gold, buy mats and level a new toon to 80. In effect, I can buy a fully leveled character with Gems. And if I am not done there, I can also, if I want, use gems to trade for gold and purchase a full set of exotic gear complete with Runes, As well as fully upgraded trinkets (Except the back piece, that might have to be Rare) I can also purchase any weapon and sigil.

    Now, relatively speaking, Exotic is already best in slot for armor and weapons, and is very very close, statistically, to the ascended gear for Trinkets. How is the quality of the Rift gear in comparison? No where near as good as Exotics in GW2.

     

    So, in Rift, you are comparatively weaker with the gear obtained from real money than you are in GW2. and yet No one (Not even me) will say GW2 is P2W.

    Why?

    Because you cannot win with it!

    What is considers play to win, well IMO I would say being able to advance your self from paying money to get there. If I pay to get gear to help me to getting raider status, then I would say I just saved a ton of time and just won compared to those that have to spend time getting to the same spot I am in the game assuming we both have the same goals. P2W could be a relative term when talking about buying stuff from the AH or from the Company, in both cases if either is neglected that system becomes problematic and with that are robbing the player of the full experience.

    If I am selling something that gives me 100 hp and the company is selling something that gives 1000 hp the choice is easy. They try to justify their stance (the company) by saying you "could" just buy that 100 without real money but they also know hardcore games are going to spend that money on that 1000 hp item with no questions asked.

    Now you can say " well I am hardcore gamer and I just farm up enough of this and that to make this and that" that is fine but most people have jobs and still raid hardcore; this is where normally the farmer would make money but why waste in game money on a lesser item and you cant really farm in game money because you only have time to raid. Instead what happens is the raider/hardcoregamer/dudewithjob ends up buying from the Company with real money every time. This scenario holds true from past experience of  raiders in wow and other similar games.

    In the end you can claim that p2w and f2p are not the same but every which way you look at it the math holds true. How many gamers that raid/play hardcore (meaning 4-8+ a day 5-7 days a week) have jobs and families? Unless someone has a link they can prove me wrong I would use a educated guess and say %70. If that is even remotely close to the percentage then you can see how they are doing unethical practices in some peoples eyes.

    When did pay to win become an opinion? P2W is a fact.

    If a person can spend money in the game to obtain an advantage that cannot be obtained be someone who does not pay, then it's pay to win.

    One gamer's family and job situation outside of Rift holds no bearing on any other gamer's situation inside Rift. If someone cannot afford the time then they have the option to buy what they lack in time. If one has neither the time, nor the money, then I am left to think it's time for a cheaper, less time consuming hobby.

    Otherwise, be thankful for getting something for nothing off the backs of those who you are accusing of paying to win.

  • f0dell54f0dell54 Des Moines, IAPosts: 329Member Common
    Originally posted by Hatefull
    Originally posted by rafalex007
    is it neccessary that , every time there is someone excited about a game someone else write a bash thread about it ????????????????????? the game just just jsut jsut went F2P atleastt give it to tommoro

    I am entitled to my opinion whenever I feel like expressing it.  If you disagree that is fine I welcome your point of view.  I will not however, remain silent when I have something to say, there are many tools on this forum if you do not like what I have to say, and you are free to sue them.

    Don't make me pull a Jason Appleton......

    oh.........shiiiitttttttt!

  • JyiigaJyiiga Seneca, SCPosts: 1,041Member Uncommon

    This is easy to answer.

    No, it is not.

    You are wrong. 

  • GiddianGiddian Livonia, MIPosts: 415Member Uncommon

    How dare Trion give you a game to play FREE and give you an OPTION to buy some Gear.

    WTF are they Thinking?

    Those bastards!

    image

  • pmilespmiles Federal Way, WAPosts: 383Member
    So... if it's pay-to-win... has anyone won yet?  Because it went live already...  who's won Rift and what did you get?
  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 773Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pmiles
    Pay to win... lose... draw... whatever... it's free to play.    Who gives a rats ass whether you bought your gear or not... not like you're going to PVP anyways.   The raid bosses don't care... why should you.

    You can buy PvP gear as well.  

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

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