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Concept: fantasy eve-style game.

RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon

Alright. I have been having this idea for a while and I felt like presenting it.

 

the major obstacle in translating eve into fantasy is the ... ship.

 

your character is a little human inside an egg inside a giant ship. it's going to be hard to get the egg and the ship translated into fantasy with shields and swords, right ? attempts have been made where the character basically became the ship, so-to-speak, where a sci-fi loss of ship equates with character death.

 

but what if this is flawed ? what if the ship should be kept ? here's what I'm thinking about:

 

 

this is the character...and with underwear on and a shirt it forms the 'capsule'.

 

 

This is the character inside one possible 'ship hull'.

 

 

This is the character inside the 'ship hull' with the whole fit equipped. When in combat, the armor would be destroyed leaving the character in his ... naked form ... equivalent of capsule. And only then would the character be subject to actual death. naturally he'll run a hell of a lot faster while naked.

 

basically...if we look at eve's ship as a very fancy armor set, would it be possible to reproduce the gameplay by simply having a 'class armor suit' be the equivalent of a ship hull, and then 'equip the fit' onto the armor itself by means of armor enchants, armor enhancements, armor modifications, rigs, and various other additions to reproduce a fit ?

 

and most importantly, for those out there who made it this far...has this been tried before ? setting a basic armor 'costume' as a base upon to build the actual fit rather than the finished thing ?

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Comments

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon

    I put it in the wrong forum didn't I ?

     

    that's why Robo doesn't start threads...:(

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  • GruntyGrunty TexasPosts: 7,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    I put it in the wrong forum didn't I ?

     

    that's why Robo doesn't start threads...:(

    Report yourself and ask to have the thread be moved where you want it.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon
    yay it got moved. ty mods. <3

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  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    How literal of a translation are you imagining?  Would there be tiers equivilent of frigate plate, battleship plate, titan plate? 

    Is it fair to say that fantasy audiences would not be as willing to accept a speed/power tradeoff on the scale of EvE's ships?  ( and if so, would the risk of losing your plate be the only reason in a fantasy version to avoid taking out your most powerful suit?)

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon

    well they naturally would be translating into fantasy classes and not to eve's extremes. no armor set will be 8 kilometers big. :)

     

    naturally armor weight will be relevant to speed but not to the extent where an archer can kite a knight. a speed-power balance is needed. if strongest armor is equally fast then why'd you have diversification ? :)

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  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Robokappthe major obstacle in translating eve into fantasy is the ... ship.

    It isn't...at least not in sense you are portraying.


    The true problem is warp/grid mechanics, jump gates and related combat mechanics. Those things define the game play.

    Basically, the way you "move" in EVE is hard to transfer.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Robokapp

     

    the major obstacle in translating eve into fantasy is the ... ship.


     

    It isn't...at least not in sense you are portraying.


    The true problem is warp/grid mechanics, jump gates and related combat mechanics. Those things define the game play.

    Basically, the way you "move" in EVE is hard to transfer.

    You wouldn't want to transfer that to a fantasy game since players are used to direct controls in fantasy games. They would expect more than auto attack too.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    How about your some sort of sorcerer and you can summon / possess monsters and send them out to do your bidding with you in direct control of it.
  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,865Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Quirhid

    You wouldn't want to transfer that to a fantasy game since players are used to direct controls in fantasy games. They would expect more than auto attack too.

    Yep, that's what I said.

    Without those, there wouldn't be a point.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon

    The ship to character transition isn't the issue with a fantasy eve. 

    Never was. It's the World and gameplay. Eve is in space, so it can take lots of shortcuts in its game design compared to a game that was on land.which would be limited. This effected the gameplay on many ways.

    image

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

    The true problem is warp/grid mechanics, jump gates and combat mechanics. Those things define the game play.

    Mounts and islands can capture most of the map/gate issues (just in 2 dimensions instead of 3).  Ranged combat could translate directly (even better if it's magic instead of mundane weapons).  Melee weapons could care about things like reach, but none of the ideas that pop to mind are a direct translation.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    I still think its a bad idea, but here's a pitch anyway:

    You should think of ships as classes, and if you want to give them the gear-like flavor, treat them as "class kits": Equipment that gives a character a set of abilities similar to that of a class. You change a kit, you change a class. You die, you lose your kit along with the rest of your gear.

    For a simple example, a "knight's kit" might include a mail, a sword, a shield, a lance and a warhorse. You put on knight's kit, you're a knight. You can do whatever knights do. In order to do it, you must be skilled in sword fighting, using your shield, fighting in armor and riding. When you die, you lose your kit and some of it will be destroyed. Others may use those "parts" to build new kits and so on.

     

    TL;DR: Ships = Classes

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Just have weapons and armor determine your abilities similar to TESO or Guild Wars 2. You lose your armor, you lose all of the abilities.
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Just have weapons and armor determine your abilities similar to TESO or Guild Wars 2. You lose your armor, you lose all of the abilities.

    but not your life. you can run. quickly. 

     

    that's...the point. :)

    image

  • fonoifonoi Cape TownPosts: 56Member
    How about Wizardry Online, you have a Soul which is basically your account. Your characters reside in your soul. You have a bank which is shared between your characters, if a char dies the items in the shared bank don't get lost. Throw in eve's insurance and you can protect your shells. Your soul levels and that is what dicates what equiptment your chars can use. If a char dies, you roll a new one and equip from ah/bank and boom you are a level one, but in gear that is equal to your soul rank so you can mow through lower level content bringing you up to scratch quickly.
  • Quazal.AQuazal.A PrestonPosts: 498Member Uncommon

    Could it work I don’t know but further thoughts on your basis...

    Frigate style ships would be the beginning for everyone so in effect you would be using leather outer clothing with maybe a pike and/or crossbow styled weapon, IE can do damage in numbers but solo you would struggle, but because of the leather clothing you would have speed of foot over say a knight in armour

    Ewar - This would be merlin styled characters who could call down the fogs/mists to cloud your enemy into not knowing where you are

    Things like Points/Webs would be class above frigate level characters but they carry netting (almost like gladiators) this would trap the foe and allow the guys with bigger weapons/slower movement to catch and hurt them

    Knights clearly would be your BS styled ship, Heavy tank and hard hitting but slow of chuff.. However, as was the case then there are different classes and styles of knights, so to lead this on, say command ships would translate into battle leader knights, the guys that lead 20+ archers/polemen into battle and give them buffs (think Gibson chat in braveheart at start of fight) 

    Dying, as was common in the medieval period things did not go to waste, if the guy you killed / found dead had better shoes/clothing then you would take them, this would be similar.

    Reincarnation would be the slightly tricky one; I would be tempted to go with Arthenian lore and have lady of the lake (or some bint in a pond {my Monty python comment}) who would ress us you at a sacred pool. - OFC in nothing but undergarments

    Larger class ships like Dread/Titans would in fact be structures like War Horses / Siege gear, given in Eve they tend not to fight anything but structures and each other rather than the smaller ships.

    Progress would be based upon battle hardened; you would progress in similar skill based style. I.e. to become a knight you would have to be proficient in Metal swords/Shields /horse riding, Hand2Hand combat etc.

    And as with eve if you specialise in one class then you get better so for e.g. EWAR you would learn better skills for trapping/use of traps, use better materials.

    A little long I know but that would be my original drawing bored idea.

    This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
    Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    Alright. I have been having this idea for a while and I felt like presenting it.

     

    the major obstacle in translating eve into fantasy is the ... ship.

     

    your character is a little human inside an egg inside a giant ship. it's going to be hard to get the egg and the ship translated into fantasy with shields and swords, right ? attempts have been made where the character basically became the ship, so-to-speak, where a sci-fi loss of ship equates with character death.

     

    but what if this is flawed ? what if the ship should be kept ? here's what I'm thinking about:

     

     

    this is the character...and with underwear on and a shirt it forms the 'capsule'.

     

     

    This is the character inside one possible 'ship hull'.

     

     

    This is the character inside the 'ship hull' with the whole fit equipped. When in combat, the armor would be destroyed leaving the character in his ... naked form ... equivalent of capsule. And only then would the character be subject to actual death. naturally he'll run a hell of a lot faster while naked.

     

    basically...if we look at eve's ship as a very fancy armor set, would it be possible to reproduce the gameplay by simply having a 'class armor suit' be the equivalent of a ship hull, and then 'equip the fit' onto the armor itself by means of armor enchants, armor enhancements, armor modifications, rigs, and various other additions to reproduce a fit ?

     

    and most importantly, for those out there who made it this far...has this been tried before ? setting a basic armor 'costume' as a base upon to build the actual fit rather than the finished thing ?

    I like the complexity so far and where you are going with this.  Great ideas.

    image

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    Alright. I have been having this idea for a while and I felt like presenting it.

     

    the major obstacle in translating eve into fantasy is the ... ship.

    Not an obstacle at all. Anyone that's used UO Assist with UO - or almost any gear loadout system - has already played what you describe. It was done in DUST 514 for a sci-fi setting, and it can easily be done for a fantasy setting as well. You're just building, augmenting and managing gear sets.

    The missing piece of the puzzle has nothing to do with the gear, though. It has a heck of a lot to do with damage types, how damage is done, and removal of role-dependent gear which means a massive departure from the shallow, sterile systems of modern MMOs. Then you have that whole destruction aspect there, which means a return to older systems of accessible, replaceable gear (ex: UO, AC, Puzzle Pirates)

    Right now if the average MMO gamer came across an equal level iron golem and swung at it with his sword, he would expect to do the same amount of damage that he did to the equal level boar his just killed on his way there instead of barely scratching the damn thing. If a cleric came up next to him and obliterated the golem with his mace, the swordsman would be raging on the forums about how imbalanced and horrible the game is.

    It easy to do. It just means retraining the audience.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,751Member Uncommon

    I'm confused.  

    Did we just re-pitch Darkfall, where you never die but you lose your armor upon being killed?

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axehilt

    I'm confused.  

    Did we just re-pitch Darkfall, where you never die but you lose your armor upon being killed?

    None of the mechanics he describes are in DF that I know of. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Right now if the average MMO gamer came across an equal level iron golem and swung at it with his sword, he would expect to do the same amount of damage that he did to the equal level boar his just killed on his way there instead of barely scratching the damn thing. If a cleric came up next to him and obliterated the golem with his mace, the swordsman would be raging on the forums about how imbalanced and horrible the game is.

    It easy to do. It just means retraining the audience.

    Which is impossible, because no one needs to tolerate entertainment products. People can always vote with their feet.

    If you audience wants balance, you better give them balance.

     

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Greencastle, INPosts: 2,594Member Uncommon

    Looks to me that EvE and Dust 514 will both be going to next generation consols

    image

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Right now if the average MMO gamer came across an equal level iron golem and swung at it with his sword, he would expect to do the same amount of damage that he did to the equal level boar his just killed on his way there instead of barely scratching the damn thing. If a cleric came up next to him and obliterated the golem with his mace, the swordsman would be raging on the forums about how imbalanced and horrible the game is.

    It easy to do. It just means retraining the audience.

    Which is impossible, because no one needs to tolerate entertainment products. People can always vote with their feet.

    If you audience wants balance, you better give them balance.

    Why is it you feel balance cannot be achieved with the OP's proposed system?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Right now if the average MMO gamer came across an equal level iron golem and swung at it with his sword, he would expect to do the same amount of damage that he did to the equal level boar his just killed on his way there instead of barely scratching the damn thing. If a cleric came up next to him and obliterated the golem with his mace, the swordsman would be raging on the forums about how imbalanced and horrible the game is.

    It easy to do. It just means retraining the audience.

    Which is impossible, because no one needs to tolerate entertainment products. People can always vote with their feet.

    If you audience wants balance, you better give them balance.

    Why is it you feel balance cannot be achieved with the OP's proposed system?

    I didn't say/feel that. I said it is impossible to retrain the audience.

     

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,751Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    None of the mechanics he describes are in DF that I know of. 

    He describes the character themselves as the pod, which always survives, but the armor kit being destroyed upon death.  While armor tends to survive (but be damaged) in Darkfall, that otherwise describes the game.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

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