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Microsoft: "We have a console for people without internet, it's called a 360"

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Comments

  • ZeGermanZeGerman Andover, MAPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
    Originally posted by Caldrin
    Originally posted by ZeGerman

    Thats an old way of thinking that part online offline was debunc'ed by the failure of online off-line rpg's who could never stand competitve in the market to all online rpgs.  The top games in the world these days are all online consoles are just trying to catch up with it.

    My posts are not bashes on PS4, PS4 has all these capabilities.  They are bashes on old school console fanboys unwilling to accept that we are moving towards an all online world.  For christs sakes what are you doing on MMO forums if you can't realize that.

    if i cannot play a single player game offline because the console is not capable of doing that, i will not own that console. That is not a reason to accept the "all online world" you mention. That is a step backwards in technology. The new console is powerful enough to handle both features, why take away offline capabilities when you can have both?. Clearly Xbox one isnt capable of that. Microsoft is taking the Watch Dogs idea too seriously with the all connected world... they forget this is the real life.

    Why do League of Legends and World of Tanks not allow offline play? Cause they would detract from the online community.  Why do free to play MMO's hate private servers? It clearly not about money its about the fact that they sap players who would possibly play on the normal servers away there by reducing the size of the community.  If your forced to go through the effort of connecting your xbox online your more likely to use the online services.  Community is everything in gaming these days anything they can do that they think will improve community they will, if you don't agree with it then its just not the right community for you it doesn't mean they are wrong or evil or money grubbers. (All of which microsoft is but not for this reason).

  • huskie77huskie77 Nowhere, NEPosts: 354Member
    Originally posted by Kaynos1972
    Peoples in total denial who THINK they know better than the consumer himself.   What can be more wrong than telling the consumer what they want instead of listening to them.  Some peoples are gonna lose their jobs at M$ when they start selling this POS console that nobody wants.

    Your point is valid. Especially since you think you know what all the other consumers want too. M$ will do just fine. As will P$4. They both botch stuff left and right and gamers always buy it all anyway.

    image
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,753Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
     

     

    Second if you read my other posts you'd realize that there really is no reasonable argument that any sizable portion of gamers don't have the ability to connect to the internet with their Xbox one.  

    And finally this isn't a criticism of ps4 it is a criticism of console fans like yourself who wont embrace the online nature of games today, those people would not make for a good community on xboxone Anyways so I'm perfectly happy not to have them at all. 

    If you are an old school gamer and don't want to embrace the new online centric world that gaming has become that's fine, but you should realize that its no different than the people complaining when xbox and ps first came out that stuck to their old  cartridge based N64.

    you dont get the point. When mmo gamers lose internet for any reason they cant play mmos so they go to their consoles to play single player games while their internet is down. The xbox one is taking that last resort away from gamers because they want to enforce crap on people who already pay for their service and for their games.

     

    Dont use the "embrace online world" thing as an excuse. Playing online is a wonderful thing WHEN you are playing with other people... online. Do not force online DRM when you are playing alone in a game that does not let you interact with other people in any way (aka single player games). That is garbage. Even Steam lets you play single player games without internet on PC.

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  • TrionicusTrionicus Fort Lauderdale, FLPosts: 497Member

    I've got my popcorn ready for the show. I didn't think it was possible for Microsoft to blunder virtually every decision for years on end but like Eli Porter, "They DEED EET!"

    I've had decent internet service for the past 2 years had 1 major outage that lasted roughly 36hrs. 12 too long for microsoft though.

    The Score:

    PS4 - 1

    XBOX NONE

  • GwapoJoshGwapoJosh Auburn, INPosts: 989Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by GwapoJosh
    Originally posted by Iselin

    At least it has a Bluray player this time image

     

     

    I see that you are an optimist ;)

    Nah I just couldn't resist mentioning the previous Xbox colossal blunder. I actually enjoyed the fact that Sony backed the correct movie distribution format that time.

    I've known about Don Mattrick for many years. He's a local boy to me (Distinctive Software which became EA North) My ex even dated him when she was in HS lol... he learned arrogance from the best at EA as he rose through the ranks. He's a good fit for MS.

    This quote is the console equivalent of the infamous "Let them eat cake!"... nice :)

    I know what you were saying.. I was just trying to make a funny.  No wonder my stand-up career failed lol! /grabswhiskey

    "You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
    image

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by marcuslm
    I also can't believe Roku would release a device for watching movies that requires an internet connection to work. It's outrageous!If you do not have an internet connection, then yes, indeed this device is not for you. Don't buy it. If you are like millions of others that do, then why complain about it? My internet connection is rarely down. If yours is down often, sounds like you need to be complaining about the company that provides your broadband, not MS.I am more upset about the hefty $500 price tag than the box checking in every so often.
    Does Roku require an internet connection to watch DVDs bought in a store and physically placed in your viewer? I certainly hope not (I do not use Roku), but this is what XBox One wants to do - take physical game discs and require internet connections in order to play, multi-player or not. It appears (I could be wrong here) that games could be rendered useless without an internet connection. Not a smart consumer choice, but many will flock to purchase these games.

    I cannot help but make a connection between old gaming consoles (XBox 360 and before) and XBox One with old MMORPGs and new MMOs. This is apparently the direction consoles want to take. Many "improvements" have been instituted. Many people will buy this. Some may not even buy games for consoles, but rather enjoy voice activated remote controls for watching TV, internet access, ordering movies, and easily accessible "social media" connections. Just like old MMORPGs brought in new players who never liked MMORPGs in the first place. Who knows, maybe this console will be "fun!"

    I was never a big console gamer. I will keep my old 360 with my smattering of board games, Madden, old arcade games, and RPGs. I don't want nor need any of these new "improvements."

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • wizyywizyy Novi SadPosts: 629Member

    I wouldn't even be surprised if they announce that you can't play if Kinect doesn't recognize there's at least one person in front of XBOX ONE.

    (because I bet there will be many who will cover that camera so that NSA/CIA/Obama don't watch them :P)

  • killion81killion81 A City, MIPosts: 985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
    This thread makes me happier about xbox one actually.  All of the solo gamers can go to PS and make PSN suck as it always has, and everyone left playing xbox one are going to be focused on online communities and game longevity as a result.  If you don't like playing with others than keep your complaints to yourself and go play PS4 as you probably would have anyways even if xbox had discs.

    It shouldn't make you happier, this will result in a lot less users on Xbox One, which will result in less exclusives and less games.

    Xbox One won't launch in Japan at all and will not launch in Asia until a year later. That means no big titles from Japan.

    If you want a lot of game choices, you need a console with a big userbase and for whatever reason, Microsoft is doing a good job making sure they have no users.

    This is pure stupidity.  First of all the U.S. is a much larger market then japan so Japanese companies will release for it regardless of if it ever comes out there.  These are business not patriotic entities.

    Second if you read my other posts you'd realize that there really is no reasonable argument that any sizable portion of gamers don't have the ability to connect to the internet with their Xbox one.  

    And finally this isn't a criticism of ps4 it is a criticism of console fans like yourself who wont embrace the online nature of games today, those people would not make for a good community on xboxone Anyways so I'm perfectly happy not to have them at all. 

    If you are an old school gamer and don't want to embrace the new online centric world that gaming has become that's fine, but you should realize that its no different than the people complaining when xbox and ps first came out that stuck to their old  cartridge based N64.

     

    Xbox 360 currently offers Xbox Live! for online play and communities.  Have you ever played a COD game online?  Yes, the "age of online gaming" sure leads to great communities...

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
    This thread makes me happier about xbox one actually.  All of the solo gamers can go to PS and make PSN suck as it always has, and everyone left playing xbox one are going to be focused on online communities and game longevity as a result.  If you don't like playing with others than keep your complaints to yourself and go play PS4 as you probably would have anyways even if xbox had discs.

    It shouldn't make you happier, this will result in a lot less users on Xbox One, which will result in less exclusives and less games.

    Xbox One won't launch in Japan at all and will not launch in Asia until a year later. That means no big titles from Japan.

    If you want a lot of game choices, you need a console with a big userbase and for whatever reason, Microsoft is doing a good job making sure they have no users.

    This is pure stupidity.  First of all the U.S. is a much larger market then japan so Japanese companies will release for it regardless of if it ever comes out there.  These are business not patriotic entities.

    Second if you read my other posts you'd realize that there really is no reasonable argument that any sizable portion of gamers don't have the ability to connect to the internet with their Xbox one.  

    And finally this isn't a criticism of ps4 it is a criticism of console fans like yourself who wont embrace the online nature of games today, those people would not make for a good community on xboxone Anyways so I'm perfectly happy not to have them at all. 

    If you are an old school gamer and don't want to embrace the new online centric world that gaming has become that's fine, but you should realize that its no different than the people complaining when xbox and ps first came out that stuck to their old  cartridge based N64.

    Exactly, it's bussines which means companies will go for the bigger market... Japan and asia are thousand times bigger markets regarding gaming than the US. Just take a look at any game sold and you'll see for yourself.

    So why make additional costs if they won't give you as much payout and in the time you spend porting the game you can make some wicked expansion to the series which'll bring you more profit.

    I have a very fast internet connection, but I don't want to be a little microsofts slave which has to check for permission if it's okay to play a console I payed a nifty 500$ for. The world is unpredictable, anything can happen with my internet connection and what if it takes longer than 24 hours to fix? I'm not allowed to play games on a console I both bought? No thank you, I'm voting with my wallet and saying "no" to microsoft and their pathetic DRM protection.

    The 24 hours check in could pass if they didn't lock up your console instantly after 24 hours without the check in.

    I'm playing games all my life and I love the fact that everything is going live, but I just hate offline games which have always online DRM protection and that kinda gives you the picture how I hate the microsofts idea of console not allowing me to play games offline wihtout constant internet connection.

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
    -------------------------------

    image
  • ZeGermanZeGerman Andover, MAPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
     

    Here i did some research for yous since you clearly didn't http://bit.ly/11z8ZXg its only 20% of america that doesn't have internet.  Frankly designing to 80% of the market is not a bad idea.  There was  a good quote from the conference yesterday that there are 220million games in america which is just over 70% so its entirely possible if not likely that almost all of those fall into the 70% category.  In most places if you have a cable tv you have internet access. 

    In 2007 15% of internet users still had dial-up were you all complaining about how rediculous it was that xbox live wouldnt support dial-up? I am quoting loosely from the article below but still the point is the same learn to keep up with the times people.  The world is changing and games are requiring new levels of connectivity.  Games will eventualy be all digital its only a matter of time so why is it so wrong for a company to embrace and push this.

    http://www.marketingvox.com/55-of-us-adults-have-home-broadband-but-10-use-only-dialup-039691/

    america is a large continent. The 80% is for North America only, but do not assume that those 80% of US internet users are gamers or own an xbox live service or will own an xbox one. Taking those points into account the % of gamers that are internet users that have an very reliable internet connection and are planning on owning an xbox one is way smaller than that. My guess is less than half of the overall internet user % of the country (since another huge % of them will own pc, ps4, wiiu, etc)

    If he meant the continents of North and South America than maybe he was right but considering when people refer to America in Electronics in the same sentence they mean the United States of America, then i have to discount your comment.  I'ld also like to point out that the global sales numbers for both consoles aren't far apart and are significantly less than the % of internet capable U.S residents so the rest of that comment is inane too. In case you can't do the math even if every xbox sold was in the U.S. only 25% would have them so its clear that 80% being internet capable is more than sufficient to continue their sales and will not cause a diminished success from people who have no internet.

    http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/01/ps3-overtakes-xbox-360-in-global-sales-figures/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Arakazi
    They'll have to do a u-turn or at least a compromise. The press they are getting is too bad, they can't keep getting knocked around by Sony, round after round.

    That would be fun to watch.

    It is probably more entertaining than actually playing a Xbox 1.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by ZeGerman

    This is pure stupidity.  First of all the U.S. is a much larger market then japan so Japanese companies will release for it regardless of if it ever comes out there.  These are business not patriotic entities.

     

    (anyone not following, Xbox One won't release in Japan and years later in Asia)

    The JRPG market is predominantly a Japanese market. So while some action games might make it oversease, most JRPG won't.

    You can already see this with current JRPG, many don't release on Western soil, but they do in Japan.

    So while your argument that there are more people in the US than in  Japan is right, the US is an FPS and action market, Japan is a RPG market, and when you like RPG, not releasing the Xbox One in Japan is a major blow to the amount of RPG you will see on the console compared to PS4.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,753Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Trionicus

    I've got my popcorn ready for the show. I didn't think it was possible for Microsoft to blunder virtually every decision for years on end but like Eli Porter, "They DEED EET!"

    I've had decent internet service for the past 2 years had 1 major outage that lasted roughly 36hrs. 12 too long for microsoft though.

    The Score:

    PS4 - 1

    XBOX NONE

    lol when sandy hit NJ i was without internet for a whole week. My big list of Steam single player games saved me from that torment. I didnt even touch my current gen consoles because the single player games i currently have on consoles i beat them already. My brother was way longer than a week without internet but he has a wii so he didnt need it lol. A console that cant have my back in times of need isnt my friend lol

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  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member

    How many people that are complaining about this are actually having a problem with finding a way to get the internet into their Xbox as opposed to being someone who likes to use pirated games.

     

    Steam users used to complain non-stop about it too. Guess what? They stuck with the required internet connection and they're are still doing very well. The reason is the majority of regular users truly don't care, they're always connected to the internet anyways. The few people who do care are mostly made up of people who steal games and realize this makes it tougher on them.

     

    I don't think Microsoft is a great company and I hate a lot of what they do (like requiring an Xbox live subscription to use Netflix on the 360 yet on my Wii I can simply just log into Netflix). However, piracy has been a major problem for the video game and movie industries. So I don't see a problem with companies moving towards a "you must be online and verified to use your product" setup. It will not impact the vast majority of normal users and as they years go on the few remaining outliers will catch up to permanent internet usage as well.

     

     

    Playstation got destroyed in the last console generation. It is no surprise that they are doing anything they can to try and get users to their side. That doesn't mean all of their decisions are the best. If all of the pirates avoid Xbox and use Playstation, that isn't a big gain for them. Console makers sell consoles at a loss and make the money back (and the profits) through their cut of the game sales. Having a bunch of pirates buy consoles at a loss and then not buy games to make it up is not a win.

     

    The future is permanent connectivity and authorization. That may be a year away or 10 years away, but everything is headed that way so you might as well just get used to it.

  • NaralNaral Solway, MNPosts: 751Member

    Sony could never have dreamed of this. MS pretty much just launched the biggest PS4 advertising campaign imaginable on their own nickle, and every time they open their mouth, it just gets better and better for Sony. My son is a die hard X Box fanboi, and he and literally everyone he games with is pre ordering PS4s.

    Good job Microsoft. That said, I suspect MS stock will be a good buy soon, and it will likely go back up....some day. =)

  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 636Member Uncommon
    Hardware based drm is the future. It is a reality we are going to have to live with.

    As for the asian market, that is largest region for piracy, so going to a hardware based drm will hurt them greatly, and impact us much less. Software companies have tried numerous ways to forced non westeren communities to buy more, so this choice by microsoft will profit them greatly. If you think sony hasn't tried to this route, you live in lala land.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • ZeGermanZeGerman Andover, MAPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
     

     

    Second if you read my other posts you'd realize that there really is no reasonable argument that any sizable portion of gamers don't have the ability to connect to the internet with their Xbox one.  

    And finally this isn't a criticism of ps4 it is a criticism of console fans like yourself who wont embrace the online nature of games today, those people would not make for a good community on xboxone Anyways so I'm perfectly happy not to have them at all. 

    If you are an old school gamer and don't want to embrace the new online centric world that gaming has become that's fine, but you should realize that its no different than the people complaining when xbox and ps first came out that stuck to their old  cartridge based N64.

    you dont get the point. When mmo gamers lose internet for any reason they cant play mmos so they go to their consoles to play single player games while their internet is down. The xbox one is taking that last resort away from gamers because they want to enforce crap on people who already pay for their service and for their games.

     

    Dont use the "embrace online world" thing as an excuse. Playing online is a wonderful thing WHEN you are playing with other people... online. Do not force online DRM when you are playing alone in a game that does not let you interact with other people in any way (aka single player games). That is garbage. Even Steam lets you play single player games without internet on PC.

    I don't think you get the point they want to force you online so that you will play online more.  Ofcourse this is monitarily in their interest because you will buy more things as well but they don't want you playing alone.  Even when your playing single player they want you on skype with friends, they want you streaming via twitch.  They want you connected and involved so you will build a community.  Like or not this is not just some money grabbing bullshit.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,606Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wizyy

    I wouldn't even be surprised if they announce that you can't play if Kinect doesn't recognize there's at least one person in front of XBOX ONE.

    (because I bet there will be many who will cover that camera so that NSA/CIA/Obama don't watch them :P)

    Some people will think you're joking. But put together their Kinect patent application from last year whose abstract says:

    "A content presentation system and method allowing content providers to regulate the presentation of content on a per-user-view basis. Content is distributed an associated license option on the number of individual consumers or viewers allowed to consume the content. Consumers are presented with a content selection and a choice of licenses allowing consumption of the content. The users consuming the content on a display device are monitored so that if the number of user-views licensed is exceeded, remedial action may be taken."

    http://www.neowin.net/news/in-microsoft-patent-kinect-watches-you

    ... with the fact that the recent NSA leaked powerpoint shows that MS was the first company to jump in bed with the NSA in 2007, and you don't really have to be a conspiracy nut to pause and have a little think about it.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/architecture-design-blog/2013/jun/12/prism-nsa-powerpoint-graphic-design

     

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,753Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by huskie77
    Originally posted by wiseman912
    Originally posted by huskie77

    edit: some of these products were TRULY bad though. Do you have time to list all of their successful projects?

    windows 98, xp, 7, xbox 360 (not sure about the original xbox since i was never interested in it). What else?

    image
  • ZeGermanZeGerman Andover, MAPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by killion81
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
    This thread makes me happier about xbox one actually.  All of the solo gamers can go to PS and make PSN suck as it always has, and everyone left playing xbox one are going to be focused on online communities and game longevity as a result.  If you don't like playing with others than keep your complaints to yourself and go play PS4 as you probably would have anyways even if xbox had discs.

    It shouldn't make you happier, this will result in a lot less users on Xbox One, which will result in less exclusives and less games.

    Xbox One won't launch in Japan at all and will not launch in Asia until a year later. That means no big titles from Japan.

    If you want a lot of game choices, you need a console with a big userbase and for whatever reason, Microsoft is doing a good job making sure they have no users.

    This is pure stupidity.  First of all the U.S. is a much larger market then japan so Japanese companies will release for it regardless of if it ever comes out there.  These are business not patriotic entities.

    Second if you read my other posts you'd realize that there really is no reasonable argument that any sizable portion of gamers don't have the ability to connect to the internet with their Xbox one.  

    And finally this isn't a criticism of ps4 it is a criticism of console fans like yourself who wont embrace the online nature of games today, those people would not make for a good community on xboxone Anyways so I'm perfectly happy not to have them at all. 

    If you are an old school gamer and don't want to embrace the new online centric world that gaming has become that's fine, but you should realize that its no different than the people complaining when xbox and ps first came out that stuck to their old  cartridge based N64.

     

    Xbox 360 currently offers Xbox Live! for online play and communities.  Have you ever played a COD game online?  Yes, the "age of online gaming" sure leads to great communities...

    Yeah cause the age of offline gaming only lead to great games.  If you have nothing intelligent to add you probably just shouldn't try to participate in what heated but good conversations.

  • NitthNitth AustraliaPosts: 3,684Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by rojo6934
    Originally posted by huskie77 Originally posted by wiseman912 Originally posted by huskie77

    edit: some of these products were TRULY bad though. Do you have time to list all of their successful projects?
    windows 98, xp, 7, xbox 360 (not sure about the original xbox since i was never interested in it). What else?

    Come on, being abit conservative there.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by saurus123

    Originally posted by dontadow

    Originally posted by saurus123
    no they are notif you dont have internet access then you are living on north poleohh wait they have internet access there :D
    If you dont' have internet acces then you are 40 to 55 percent of the country. What we do is not what everyone else does.
    40-55% of what country ?you can get internet access almost everywhere, tho not having it becouse some reasons is another thingand no im not a fanboy
    It may not be 40-55%, but less than 80% of the US population use the internet. Check here (google page) for an interesting breakdown.

    Not everyone who has a console has internet access. Your assumption and attitude are rather silly. "Better make home improvements to play a console game. Or move. Or get a better job. Or buy a router." One should not HAVE to do any of these things for console gaming.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    The silly thing is that many people also gave Microsoft a second chance.

    Does anyone remember the #dealwithit Twitter quotes from Microsoft. That caused many people to be upset with Microsoft for how they deal with their userbase.

    Yesterday a Microsoft rep said to a journalist:

    "If you're backwards compatible, you're really backwards"

    It's not just the console itself, it's their arrogance that gets people riled up, they have no control over their public relations.

     

     

    "Orthy" is a microsoft employee (he got fired afterwards), but the fact they think like that at Microsoft, that "our way or the highway" attitude is costing them dearly.

     

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,753Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZeGerman
     

    I don't think you get the point they want to force you online so that you will play online more.  Ofcourse this is monitarily in their interest because you will buy more things as well but they don't want you playing alone.  Even when your playing single player they want you on skype with friends, they want you streaming via twitch.  They want you connected and involved so you will build a community.  Like or not this is not just some money grabbing bullshit.

    i do get that point. However, i do not want (or have) to play online when they dictate it. I want to play online when my friends are online. When i play a story driven single player game the last thing i want is my friend talking crap over skype interrupting my immersion. They want to force online play on people who have a good balance between online and offline play. So that is in fact just some money grabbing bullshit because the more people they try to force online = the more money MS gets out of xbox live gold membership.

    image
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,443Member Uncommon
    Loved everything I seen about xbox one but havkng to sign in every 24hr or your games dont work does not fly with me. Also the way they will be controlling the resell of your used games is really bad. Also you can share a game with a friend unless they have been a friend on your account for 60 days is also dumb. Love swapping games with friends to try out their games to see if you wana buy them. Or to save a few bucks. Im sorry but when I buy a disk it should be mine to do what I will with it when I want. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


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