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Importance of Item Decay for Arche Age (poll inside)

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Comments

  • InporylemQQInporylemQQ asdasadsPosts: 165Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    I could handle item decay if it utilized a really good system,but i doubt that would happen,so no i don't want it.

    It is not essential what so ever to a game economy,that is done by keeping RMT out and creating RARITY.

    I cannot think of any system to create a realistic item decay that wouldn't involve a very in depth system.I prefer if ideas can't be done right,i don't want them done at all.

    Item decay is always better solution than rng crafting. Item decay would keep crafters busy a lot better plus would help the game economy that is quite horrible at the moment, because there isn't really any material or gold sinks. (Except the race car is quite valuable). Crafting was a lot easier when the item decay and there wasn't 95% of rng involved compared what it is now. But again this kind of gear progression is just what the masses want now so they are taking this route because of it.

    I guess they didn't think it through removing item decay.

    ArcheAge, Black Desert and Bless videos InporylemQQ Youtube

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member

    For the love of  the MMORPG genre, this shouldn't be up for question.

     

    You either have a serious game up with item decay  or you just suck at designing games.

    The reasons are too obvious to name again especially if you claim you design a game with sandbox features.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • ShauneepeakShauneepeak Biddeford, MEPosts: 421Member

    Um.. you forgot an option item decay with the ability to repair that is the only way I would want it.

    Maybe depending on the skills of whoever repairs it the stats will vary which would make someone want to seek out a high level smither for example.

  • ShauneepeakShauneepeak Biddeford, MEPosts: 421Member
    Just saw the sharpening post above me that IMO is the perfect option it is risk vs reward and is a great way to filter items out of the game I feel however that you should at least be able to upgrade 1 or 2 levels without the risk of the item breaking maybe lower rarity items can be safely upgraded 2 levels and the rare items only have 1 level of safety maybe even allow more common items 3 levels.
  • zastenzasten nowherePosts: 283Member

    I played a game with items decay, it was pathetic.

    Every time you used it, it would get some decay, and you had to go back to town to get it repaired.

    The problem was, on going to town to sell items (the backpack was not big enough), I would have it repaired at the same time.

    This ended up making it wear out a lot faster than it should, because every time you had it repaired, halved its life.

    I ended up quitting the game, because it was a normal weapon (yes, nothing fancy here, ALL weapons degraded) for use by characters up to level 10, it was unusable, and at that level, there was not enough money to buy another one.

    My only option was to delete the character or stop playing!

     

     

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shauneepeak

    Um.. you forgot an option item decay with the ability to repair that is the only way I would want it.

    Maybe depending on the skills of whoever repairs it the stats will vary which would make someone want to seek out a high level smither for example.

    Well as said in my opening post for me the ability to repair your items was a given. Either with a durability stat, or something like XLGames used in CBT4 for Archeage. In the old system you have to used another item(without bonus stats and without that akhium was required, somewhat of a repair item) you mixed them together to repair it fully(without durability loss). So you just needed that special repair item to fix your stuff. With that no item was necessarily destroyed, but crafting mats were drained out of the system with that special repair item to hold up a demand.

    Originally posted by zasten

    I played a game with items decay, it was pathetic.

    Every time you used it, it would get some decay, and you had to go back to town to get it repaired.

    The problem was, on going to town to sell items (the backpack was not big enough), I would have it repaired at the same time.

    This ended up making it wear out a lot faster than it should, because every time you had it repaired, halved its life.

    I ended up quitting the game, because it was a normal weapon (yes, nothing fancy here, ALL weapons degraded) for use by characters up to level 10, it was unusable, and at that level, there was not enough money to buy another one.

    My only option was to delete the character or stop playing!

    Well.. i don't know what game that was. But usually it is not necessary to repair you items every few hours of gameplay, and usually no item will be destroyed in a week or less. But as i said before how long it will last, or how many repair will cost is just a matter of balance and the purpose is to drain some stuff from the market to hold up a high demand. (The social aspect is just a side effect)

    The upgrade system is ok, but it is just for the high end sector and i don't know if that is really enough drain to the market.. i personally don't think it will be.  

  • VezlinVezlin CarolinaPosts: 23Member Uncommon

    TL;DR: I think there should be fully repairable item decay and enchantment/upgrade punishment without just tossing the whole item away, and using repairs, recustomization and upgrades to give crafters more relevancy and maybe even help MMOs get a li'l more social.

     

    As has just been mentioned, I think item decay with repair is a much better means of solving the crafter-relevancy and economics issue than forcing gear to explode after a certain amount of time, or if someone took a risk that they're forced to to stay power relevant.

    A blow-up timer forces people to cling to, or not use really amazing things that could be cool to use. Meanwhile, chances to blow up your extra rare item with upgrades just leads to losing hours, days, weeks or more of work, completely ruining the point of so much time invested. So you then have a bunch of people who just don't bother with the upgrades, and another chunk getting terribly frustrated by the system. There are definitely benefits to both, and I won't discredit those, but for a game to do well, it has to appeal to more people. As may come as a surprise, people don't like being punished for playing the way they want to.

    That said, I think games should have decay.  Crafters deserve more relevancy and variety of work beyond crafting and gathering. At the end of the day, even with items that break down over time, they're often just crafting and gathering. Instead of just having items go away at the end of their lifecycle, after a certain point of use or time, the item should start wearing down, and once it hits, say, 3/4 or 1/2 of what it can take, stats might start dropping. At this point, one should have the option to look up a crafter and put it in a special trade window or, if they are one, set down to work and repair it for materials and/or a span of time beyond that usual few-seconds crafting bar in most games. Crafters are still kept relevant this way, but non-crafting players will have a choice and means to keep their gear in one piece, and we'll be seeing more direct interaction instead of this AH only business that separates people more than brings them together.

    As for enchantment, I think there should be risk and reward, but I also think the risk shouldn't be throwing everything you've done away. In a game where EXP and gold were hard to get, I found the best take on enchantment I've found. You toss your item into an enchantment bin, and then you can start choosing your enchantments on it. Each new enchantment costs more and more gold and EXP than the last, and has a chance to fail. If not-succeeding isn't enough, a chance to remove the last enchantment as well could be added. There was then a way to build your character to be specialized in Enchantment. Beyond being better at certain combat spells, they had reduced costs and higher chances of success.

    Lastly, I think everything should and shouldn't be bind on equip at the same time. One size fitting all is a little strange in games with men and women, of different races and sizes wearing the same piece of armour and using the same weapon grips. When gear is first equipped, it should get 'fitted' to that character and that character alone, but remain tradeable. If you have gear fitted to someone else, you should then be able to get a crafter or use a craft skill to refit it for yourself. To keep crafters leveling with this one, have higher level crafters be able to refit higher levels of gear, as well as have a chance to provide a slight bonus with critical success.

    Long story short is, the main problem is that crafters deserve to stay relevant (Yeah I used that word a lot). This is usually done by their having a reason to pump out a steady stream of stuff into an auction house, player shop, or some equivalent. That's awesome, and that shouldn't go away, but we also have another constantly-looming issue over our head these days: MMOs are becoming less social and more click-through-things-together. Repair, Refit and Enchant systems would give combat lovers and crafters alike reason to go to each other personally, without detracting from combat players' experience by threatening them should they dare want to get the best gear, and without leaving crafters scraping for coin at an overstuffed AH.

  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 801Member Uncommon
    I voted yes but I really prefer EVE's method of handling this in that your stuff is destroyed/lootable when you explode. Items need to go boom for the economy, as you've said, and this way at least  you've had some control over it happening.
  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member

    I don't care about decay, I DO NOT WANT ANY CASH SHOPS OR F2P scrib options in this game.

     

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • InporylemQQInporylemQQ asdasadsPosts: 165Member
    Originally posted by TheJoda

    I don't care about decay, I DO NOT WANT ANY CASH SHOPS OR F2P scrib options in this game.

     

    F2p is pretty much confirmed already and here is the cash shop http://www.archeage.com/store/buy

     

    You can play the game free atm already without gaining labor.

    ArcheAge, Black Desert and Bless videos InporylemQQ Youtube

  • TheJodaTheJoda chicago, ILPosts: 467Member
    Originally posted by inporylemQQ
    Originally posted by TheJoda

    I don't care about decay, I DO NOT WANT ANY CASH SHOPS OR F2P scrib options in this game.

     

    F2p is pretty much confirmed already and here is the cash shop http://www.archeage.com/store/buy

     

    You can play the game free atm already without gaining labor.

    ...its that just game time?  I do not see how they cant put in a cash shop to sandbox style game where the players make all the gear.

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • KumaponKumapon Vancouver, BCPosts: 702Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by TheJoda

    Originally posted by inporylemQQ

    Originally posted by TheJoda I don't care about decay, I DO NOT WANT ANY CASH SHOPS OR F2P scrib options in this game.  
    F2p is pretty much confirmed already and here is the cash shop http://www.archeage.com/store/buy   You can play the game free atm already without gaining labor.
    ...its that just game time?  I do not see how they cant put in a cash shop to sandbox style game where the players make all the gear.

    Yea that is just game time. But there is a cash shop where you can buy Rice cakes, that give you more labour power. We really won't know more details till XL games comes out with their FTP system till later this month. Don't forget this is just in Korea, we will have to see what Trion wants to do with Archeage.

    http://www.archeage.com/store/buy

  • AkerbeltzAkerbeltz Vitoria-GasteizPosts: 161Member

    I'm already a bit skeptic about this game due to the amount of "hold-your-hand-follow-the-line" themeparkish features that are present. I'm not too enthusiastic about the lore either. But I was to overlook all of this as it seemed that this game was to recapture the RPG philosophy of early MMORPGs.

     

    Now, if they implement no-decay for items, ergo, no player-driven economy, ergo, worthless crafting, ergo, no true RPG, I'm out.

     

    So fucking tired of this idiot-proof formulae that has become an standard in gaming over the last decade.

    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

  • lionhopperslionhoppers rainbowPosts: 16Member
    There should definitely be Item decay! It would be great if you could repair your items if you have the right crafting skill.. tailoring for repairing cloth armor for example :)
  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,052Member Uncommon

    Item decay is not necessarily needed, but you definately need items be removed from the game constantly to kee the economy running.

    I prefer the system of EvE Online, where stuff is simply destroyed upon death.

  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 770Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    slow item decay with no repairing, everything bind on equip, no BOA's w/ broken items able to be be deconstructed for base materials or be turned into a a cosmetic item

    What is the point of binding an item when there is decay and the best items are made by crafters? I vote for no binding.

    No binding, and no decay imo.  dealing with these full time crafter types is usually a horrid experience.  I would rather deal with them once to get what I need and then be on my way.

    I know I am probably in the smallest minority on this, but I have felt like this since SWG (BETA) and you will not be changing my mind on the topic.  However, like I said I am a minority on this topic by a long shot so I am sure the crafters (who tend to be very vocal, yet another reason I find them distasteful) will get what they want.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member

    I wont be playing this title because it simply doesn't look interesting but I agree with Item decay in any MMO.  It is the only way to make crafters viable and to keep a healthy economy and to make the community dependant on one another thus making social interaction important again.  Not going to be a douch to that mighty fine weapon crafter on the server or you might get blacklisted. This is one of the many reason SWG did so well.

    Also should be quicker than months decay and should be weeks.

    image

  • OpapanaxOpapanax Rochester, NYPosts: 973Member
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    slow item decay with no repairing, everything bind on equip, no BOA's w/ broken items able to be be deconstructed for base materials or be turned into a a cosmetic item

    What is the point of binding an item when there is decay and the best items are made by crafters? I vote for no binding.

    do you really want to  see million's of weapon/armor pieces with 1%durability left clog up any auction house or similar setup from people hoping to scam the unwary. Plus hand me downs are just as bad for the economy as no decay

    I voted for slower item decay myself. I do see where you are taking this and I'd say they would need to have the AH system have some type of requirement that they item have more than a certain amount of durability left before it could be listed on the AH.

    To help thward off the absent minded that may purchase "broken" gear and for those that just can't help but be lames and try to scam folks in every game they play.

    PM before you report at least or you could just block.

  • BrownAleBrownAle fantasyland, MEPosts: 399Member
    You need items to have a short life in game to have a good crafting economy.
  • BoneserinoBoneserino London, ONPosts: 1,615Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BrownAle
    You need items to have a short life in game to have a good crafting economy.

    First off,  all armor and weapons and mounts are crafted in game.   No item or gear drops, only materials drop.

    If you want new armor or weapon you either have to make it or buy from another player.

    This automatically makes scavenging and looting for mats profitable (and in my opinion fun)    Not only are crafted items valuable, the mats to create them have value as well.

    All items have decay ( called fatigue ) built in.  You can repair an item up to 20 times.   Items decay as a percentage (from 100% down to 1)  and decay is from use in combat, not just over time.  So if you have an item you wish to keep you simply use it only for occasions when you need it.  This will rarely affect you with low level gear as you will upgrade but does affect you with top level stuff.

    Needless to say this is the best crafting system I have seen in a game, and makes the crafting as important as the combat.  In fact you practically need a separate toon just for crafting as this is a skill based system with points used to upgrade the skills of your choice.  A pure crafter can not be a top fighter and a top fighter can not craft all items in game.   

    The only other game I played that approached the quality of this games crafting was Voyage Century before it was bastardized by patches.  Pretty sure SWG had a better system but never played it.  

    So either you like crafting or you don't.  And even if you don't, in this case you are still going to help the economy, unless you want to run around naked and unarmed!

    And thats the way it should be.

     

     

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • firefly2003firefly2003 Los Angeles, CAPosts: 2,555Member
    I like slow item decay, having something that breaks in under a month, does bring repeat business to a crafter but some players may not want to keep shelling out more money for new gear, I think 3 months max for items to decay is a better option with some longetivity and still brings in business for crafters, which in any player based economy should be :)

    image

  • rainmournrainmourn Columbia Heights, MNPosts: 35Member
    I wouldn't subscribe to a game that had item decay. It's one of the reasons I avoid Ryzom. It's usually a cash shop ploy. There are plenty of ways to promote sensible economies, but decaying pixels isn't one of them, in my opinion. A bit of coin to repair an item such as WoW implemented was alright, but their costs were too steep. Glad I don't play that anymore, come to think of it. Rift is my fav mmo and it doesn't have a repair bill, thank goodness. I'm sure Trion will make intelligent game choices for ArcheAge, as well. 
  • ScambugScambug TortugaPosts: 389Member

    Due to the game being korean this is typically one of those threads that's rather useless. Western players will always be second rate, updates will reach us 6 months late and our feedback, if it even reaches XLgames, will be mostly useless due to the lag between eastern and western versions.

    I'm all for debating game mechanics but if you know in advance that the real devs (XLgames) won't care about anything you say, then what's the point?

    Trion is just the publisher here I really doubt they'll have any say on such an important mechanic as item decay.

    If you've ever played either Lineage 2, Aion or Tera for an extended period of time you'll know what I'm talking about.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by rainmourn
    I wouldn't subscribe to a game that had item decay. It's one of the reasons I avoid Ryzom. It's usually a cash shop ploy. There are plenty of ways to promote sensible economies, but decaying pixels isn't one of them, in my opinion. A bit of coin to repair an item such as WoW implemented was alright, but their costs were too steep. Glad I don't play that anymore, come to think of it. Rift is my fav mmo and it doesn't have a repair bill, thank goodness. I'm sure Trion will make intelligent game choices for ArcheAge, as well. 

    Say what ? you brought up Ryzom as example and then Ryzom hasn't any cash shop !

    Also Ryzom has very important playstyle called crafting ! exceptional good crafters have a very good name and good raw materials are in demand which fuels going out and explore, hunt and forage.

    One of the driving momentum for all of these being item decay !

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • rainmournrainmourn Columbia Heights, MNPosts: 35Member
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden
    Originally posted by rainmourn
    I wouldn't subscribe to a game that had item decay. It's one of the reasons I avoid Ryzom. It's usually a cash shop ploy. There are plenty of ways to promote sensible economies, but decaying pixels isn't one of them, in my opinion. A bit of coin to repair an item such as WoW implemented was alright, but their costs were too steep. Glad I don't play that anymore, come to think of it. Rift is my fav mmo and it doesn't have a repair bill, thank goodness. I'm sure Trion will make intelligent game choices for ArcheAge, as well. 

    Say what ? you brought up Ryzom as example and then Ryzom hasn't any cash shop !

    Also Ryzom has very important playstyle called crafting ! exceptional good crafters have a very good name and good raw materials are in demand which fuels going out and explore, hunt and forage.

    One of the driving momentum for all of these being item decay !

    Hence my use of the word "usually." I didn't stick around long enough to note the presence or lack of a cash shop. And it certainly was a driving momentum--it drove me well away. I'm sure some people are attracted to the hamster wheel mechanic or like extorting fees as crafters. I'd prefer to think an exceptionally fine crafter with the best reputation could make something that doesn't fall apart once in a buyer's hands.

    But for every gamer, there's a game. Those who want this tedium will seek it out. Those who dislike it will either put up with it if the rest of the game is terrific or it'll be another straw on the camel's back, leading to game enjoyment decay.

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