Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

So I played this game two days.

RenoakuRenoaku Member Posts: 1,212 Uncommon

So I downloaded and installed the game 2 days ago and played for the first time, my first impression of the game is its a good game, unlike TERA I had no UI bugs, and the game looks and plays better than Never Winter, IMO Dragons Prophet is better than both.

However my Feeling for Dragons Prophet while the core game seems to be optimized and good as in Quest system looks neat compared to most F2P Titles the game isnt Free 2 Play, well it is technically however from my experience the game is Pay 2 Enjoy meaning you have to spend money to enjoy the game if you are like me.

1. So I put in $20 to buy some cash shop items pruchased armor suit and then tried to color it only to find out that I have to pay more SC to unlock 1 color at a time guys do the math here there are 757 colors based on what the color library says it costs 45 SC to unlock one single color that is 34065 SC, and 5000 SC = 45 USD which means you have to spend $315 USD to unlock all colors if you want full customization like I do, and no way that I have found within 2 days to unlock without paying Real Money. I have already given them a subscription worth of a Monthly sub but they don't really give me any customization at all. ( This is assuming you cant unlock the same color twice or anything.)

2. Unfair PVP, and PVE, Basically from what I have seen you can loose gear form PVE which means that in order to protect your items you have to pay in either Shells, or Station Cash for protection, this creates a bridge between people who don't play vs people who pay now you can get these for  free 600 shells for 7 days is best offer, and assuming its like Runes of magic and 10 shells per daily quest it would take 6 days of doing daily missions just to get 600 shells which means you have to login every single day do 10 daily missions or risk loosing gear if you die, VS station Cash of 950 or $10 USD just for item protection.

3 Graphics somewhat suck, Female Character Models somewhat suck looking at their skin it doesn't look realistic on parts of it it needs to be improved, not to mention the graphics bugs I found in game which should have been fixed during closed beta and reported it.

Bottom Line, my opinion of this game is the game has potential but here we go with Sony + RuneWaker ruining what could be a great MMO by GREED, not worth playing if you are like me save your money for a better game, If they don't provide changes to these aspects within the next couple of weeks I quit the game not even going to be playing it as my primary game now going back to DarkFall with an Equal Playing field tired of Pay 2 Enjoy & Pay 2 Win games.

«1

Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAMember Posts: 14,247 Rare

    I have to agree that the color/dyes system is an annoying nickel and dime mess that seemed to be built from the direction of "we want to sell it, so make a game out of it" rather than making something that people would find value in and charging for it. I would far prefer a GW2 style system if they really need to go the random color route.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • psiicpsiic Tampa, FLMember Posts: 1,463 Uncommon

    You can actually earn tokens in game as you achieve daily, weekly, and monthly achievements. 

    You can use these tokens on the item mall same as SC.

     

    Another factor a lot of people are not aware of, that there are achievements to unlock things like extra backpack slots, bank slots, and dragon slots.

     

    Sad part is people rush in buy all the unlocks then bitch about how much it cost them, where as if they played the game a lot of that would unlock on its own over time. 

  • RenoakuRenoaku Member Posts: 1,212 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    I have to agree that the color/dyes system is an annoying nickel and dime mess that seemed to be built from the direction of "we want to sell it, so make a game out of it" rather than making something that people would find value in and charging for it. I would far prefer a GW2 style system if they really need to go the random color route.

    Yep I would as well I don't really play GW2 much only because it feels like every MMO I have played and gets boring very fast very generic scripted events DP offers something a bit different.

    While I know it is possible to earn tokens in game to buy items same as station cash the question is.

    1. How many tokens can you earn Max per day 10 daily missions I am assuming at 10 tokens which means you need to play for 2 days to get 1 days protection or 6 days for 7 days and if you miss one day you have to make up for it and risk loosing gear that is the only problem I see with it although Im not sure how many it awards per mission have not done any dailys yet.

    2. Shells also can't be used for dye it gives me no option if it did I would have a different feeling about this game.

    These two things need to be changed either give everyone a chance to loose gear with no protection, or lower it to zero chance but make it fair all around not pay 2 win, or pay 2 enjoy if someone can stand logging in every day of their lives to play 10 dailys not everyone has the time or plays DP as their primary game.

    I already submit a bug report on the two graphics bugs I find what needs to be fixed and also included my link to this post so they are aware they need to deal with it because if its not fixed within a week or two as i stated I am dropping the game myself and so are a lot of other players from multiple clans I am part of but go by many different online identities.

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLMember Posts: 2,167 Uncommon

    i like the game, but my primary issue lies in the cash shop and its relationship to ingame progression. while i will continual to play it casually, i will not be spending any more of my SC.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • Beoelf21Beoelf21 Atascocita, TXMember Posts: 91
    i hated this game. It looked ugly and the combat was slow and stupid. granted I only played for 3 hours..i wanted those 3 hours back.

    image
  • besteverbestever Las Vegas, AZMember Posts: 840 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Beoelf21
    i hated this game. It looked ugly and the combat was slow and stupid. granted I only played for 3 hours..i wanted those 3 hours back.

    Ugly lol okay good one, get a better PC. Slow and stupid combat now thats just a joke because I have a 15 ranger and its far from slow.

    Great game from what I've played and enjoy it more then most mmo's

  • besteverbestever Las Vegas, AZMember Posts: 840 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Renoaku
    So I downloaded and installed the game 2 days ago and played for the first time, my first impression of the game is its a good game, unlike TERA I had no UI bugs, and the game looks and plays better than Never Winter, IMO Dragons Prophet is better than both. However my Feeling for Dragons Prophet while the core game seems to be optimized and good as in Quest system looks neat compared to most F2P Titles the game isnt Free 2 Play, well it is technically however from my experience the game is Pay 2 Enjoy meaning you have to spend money to enjoy the game if you are like me. 1. So I put in $20 to buy some cash shop items pruchased armor suit and then tried to color it only to find out that I have to pay more SC to unlock 1 color at a time guys do the math here there are 757 colors based on what the color library says it costs 45 SC to unlock one single color that is 34065 SC, and 5000 SC = 45 USD which means you have to spend $315 USD to unlock all colors if you want full customization like I do, and no way that I have found within 2 days to unlock without paying Real Money. I have already given them a subscription worth of a Monthly sub but they don't really give me any customization at all. ( This is assuming you cant unlock the same color twice or anything.) 2. Unfair PVP, and PVE, Basically from what I have seen you can loose gear form PVE which means that in order to protect your items you have to pay in either Shells, or Station Cash for protection, this creates a bridge between people who don't play vs people who pay now you can get these for  free 600 shells for 7 days is best offer, and assuming its like Runes of magic and 10 shells per daily quest it would take 6 days of doing daily missions just to get 600 shells which means you have to login every single day do 10 daily missions or risk loosing gear if you die, VS station Cash of 950 or $10 USD just for item protection. 3 Graphics somewhat suck, Female Character Models somewhat suck looking at their skin it doesn't look realistic on parts of it it needs to be improved, not to mention the graphics bugs I found in game which should have been fixed during closed beta and reported it. Bottom Line, my opinion of this game is the game has potential but here we go with Sony + RuneWaker ruining what could be a great MMO by GREED, not worth playing if you are like me save your money for a better game, If they don't provide changes to these aspects within the next couple of weeks I quit the game not even going to be playing it as my primary game now going back to DarkFall with an Equal Playing field tired of Pay 2 Enjoy & Pay 2 Win games.

    I don't see how its pay2win and if you spend 15$ month on the game just like you would in darkfall then you wouldn't have a problem. I sick of the its pay2win because it has a shop. People just want it all for free will to bad they need to make money to keep the game going.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAMember Posts: 14,247 Rare
    Originally posted by Renoaku
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    I have to agree that the color/dyes system is an annoying nickel and dime mess that seemed to be built from the direction of "we want to sell it, so make a game out of it" rather than making something that people would find value in and charging for it. I would far prefer a GW2 style system if they really need to go the random color route.

    Yep I would as well I don't really play GW2 much only because it feels like every MMO I have played and gets boring very fast very generic scripted events DP offers something a bit different.

    While I know it is possible to earn tokens in game to buy items same as station cash the question is.

    1. How many tokens can you earn Max per day 10 daily missions I am assuming at 10 tokens which means you need to play for 2 days to get 1 days protection or 6 days for 7 days and if you miss one day you have to make up for it and risk loosing gear that is the only problem I see with it although Im not sure how many it awards per mission have not done any dailys yet.

    2. Shells also can't be used for dye it gives me no option if it did I would have a different feeling about this game.

    These two things need to be changed either give everyone a chance to loose gear with no protection, or lower it to zero chance but make it fair all around not pay 2 win, or pay 2 enjoy if someone can stand logging in every day of their lives to play 10 dailys not everyone has the time or plays DP as their primary game.

    I already submit a bug report on the two graphics bugs I find what needs to be fixed and also included my link to this post so they are aware they need to deal with it because if its not fixed within a week or two as i stated I am dropping the game myself and so are a lot of other players from multiple clans I am part of but go by many different online identities.

    Under what condition in PvE does one chance dropping gear?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • RenoakuRenoaku Member Posts: 1,212 Uncommon

    1. Games are not pay 2 win because it has a cash shop it becomes pay 2 win when a game offers a unfair advantage over a customer who is not paying. pay 2 win PVE wise for example I wouldn't care if players got str boosters and so on sold in a cash shop as long as it only effected PVE not PVP.

    For example to my knowledge you have to run 10 dailys  every single day to get item protection which on the description it talks about gear being dropped on the item description in cash shop, not everyone in Real Life has the time to do this unless the protection pauses on log-off of the game and resumes when logging into the character which it likely doesn't because it doesn't say this on the description.

    So any user from level 1 who pays without having any Shells at all gets protection from level 1 vs someone who doesn't.

    Personally I have not lost any gear although from what I hear and know its a very rare chance but in PVP servers in Runes of Magic items could drop and RuneWaker is the same company/devs as Dragons Prophet.

    I noticed the description seems to have changed a bit, perhaps its only durability that is lost on gear when it is damaged/repaired not sure how the system works but still this system needs to be changed and looked at.

    So this is where the unfair advantage comes in.

    2. Pay 2 Enjoy the part where this comes in I spent $20 yesterday to buy items from cash shop thats a 1 month subscription right there, and then after buying the cosmetic armor I find out I can't color it for FREE, which should by all means be free after giving them a month of game time but instead I find out I can't preview color dyes, I cant choose exactly what RGB I want to color it and pay for it, and I have to unlock random colors which means $300 + USD to unlock them all.

    So yes it is officially pay 2 enjoy in my book I don't mind paying a one time fee, and for items like GW2 and such but Dragons Prophet is going Pay 2 Enjoy for the most part if it continues the direction it is going right now so its not going to be worth playing unless these changes come to offer more free content, or one time purchase content especially when it comes to colors and RGB not being able to choose your own.

    Even in Runes OF Magic, coloring is a lot cheaper I believe they might have even made it free to dye clothes.

  • KalSirian2KalSirian2 ParisMember Posts: 42 Uncommon

    While I agree with some of the points made, I would like to correct this common assumption that you have to use the cash shop (diamonds or shells) to protect your gear.

    I'm guessing that you're talking about the repair hammers they sell in the cash shop, let me tell you that this is by far the worse way to repair your gear even if you're willing to spend real money.

     

    The reason is that you can use the Equipment Enhancement interface ( press Y or find a Soulcast Artisan), to increase your gear max durability. So basically, when your gear durability is low, you repair it at any merchant npc (which decreases the max durability a bit), and if the max durability ever gets too low too, you just have to increase it in the Equipment Enhancement. You can use gold to do that, it's not very expensive, and the most important part is that you can do it any number of times and the chance of success (80% apparently) won't decrease.

     

    To give you an idea, increasing max durability from 74 to 92 (10 tries) cost me 880 gold (88x10) for lvl 28 cloth shoulder armor.

    Currently I have ~138 000 gold (at lvl 27), so this is not a huge expense as you can see (normal repair costs are also in the couple thousands for repairing all my gear at the merchant after several hours of play).

     

    So far I haven't spent real money on this game, but I agree that it's annoying how cash shop currency can be spent on almost everything, even if you don't HAVE to use it. Some options are just way too useful, and shells (dragon insignas) take forever to farm (100/day), so they aren't really a good solution.

    What I'm going to do is wait until I get max level, see if I still enjoy the game, and then pay a small amount ($5 or $10) for diamonds, to use only on the most useful things (like stable and lair slots), and only allow myself to buy diamonds once a month. This way I'm not paying more than if there was a subscription.

    image

  • hupahupa Member Posts: 44 Uncommon
    Played this game a few days up to lvl48. And the amount of places and things they ask or provide a service for for diamonds is just not cool.
  • TheJodaTheJoda Nerak, awaiting a good MMOMember Posts: 536 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Renoaku
    So I downloaded and installed the game 2 days ago and played for the first time, my first impression of the game is its a good game, unlike TERA I had no UI bugs, and the game looks and plays better than Never Winter, IMO Dragons Prophet is better than both. However my Feeling for Dragons Prophet while the core game seems to be optimized and good as in Quest system looks neat compared to most F2P Titles the game isnt Free 2 Play, well it is technically however from my experience the game is Pay 2 Enjoy meaning you have to spend money to enjoy the game if you are like me. 1. So I put in $20 to buy some cash shop items pruchased armor suit and then tried to color it only to find out that I have to pay more SC to unlock 1 color at a time guys do the math here there are 757 colors based on what the color library says it costs 45 SC to unlock one single color that is 34065 SC, and 5000 SC = 45 USD which means you have to spend $315 USD to unlock all colors if you want full customization like I do, and no way that I have found within 2 days to unlock without paying Real Money. I have already given them a subscription worth of a Monthly sub but they don't really give me any customization at all. ( This is assuming you cant unlock the same color twice or anything.) 2. Unfair PVP, and PVE, Basically from what I have seen you can loose gear form PVE which means that in order to protect your items you have to pay in either Shells, or Station Cash for protection, this creates a bridge between people who don't play vs people who pay now you can get these for  free 600 shells for 7 days is best offer, and assuming its like Runes of magic and 10 shells per daily quest it would take 6 days of doing daily missions just to get 600 shells which means you have to login every single day do 10 daily missions or risk loosing gear if you die, VS station Cash of 950 or $10 USD just for item protection. 3 Graphics somewhat suck, Female Character Models somewhat suck looking at their skin it doesn't look realistic on parts of it it needs to be improved, not to mention the graphics bugs I found in game which should have been fixed during closed beta and reported it. Bottom Line, my opinion of this game is the game has potential but here we go with Sony + RuneWaker ruining what could be a great MMO by GREED, not worth playing if you are like me save your money for a better game, If they don't provide changes to these aspects within the next couple of weeks I quit the game not even going to be playing it as my primary game now going back to DarkFall with an Equal Playing field tired of Pay 2 Enjoy & Pay 2 Win games.

    .....this is the only reason I have afraid for EQN....they cashstation SoE bullshit!

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • SquishydewSquishydew NetherlandsMember Posts: 1,081 Uncommon

    I agree with some of the points made, but having only played 2 hours or so, combat felt way way worse then Tera and Neverwinter, it felt clunky and unresponsive to me, and the game looks Hideously old.

     

    I was excited by the dragon taming as dragons are a small obsession of mine, but that really doesn't redeem how low-end this game felt, normally i say It's free, why not give it a shot and form your own opinion? But for this one I'd rather advice people to just stay away, theres absolutely nothing good to find here.

  • George_LPGeorge_LP GreeceMember Posts: 24 Uncommon
    i playing 3 days now and i cotinue to play....In my opinion has nice skiils...the combat is awesome ppl help  each other i made friends and found a guild too..I wont pay any money at this game because i dont have and i can play without to do any purchase at shop
  • ArkainArkain Tampa, FLMember Posts: 490 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Renoaku
    1. Games are not pay 2 win because it has a cash shop it becomes pay 2 win when a game offers a unfair advantage over a customer who is not paying. pay 2 win PVE wise for example I wouldn't care if players got str boosters and so on sold in a cash shop as long as it only effected PVE not PVP. For example to my knowledge you have to run 10 dailys  every single day to get item protection which on the description it talks about gear being dropped on the item description in cash shop, not everyone in Real Life has the time to do this unless the protection pauses on log-off of the game and resumes when logging into the character which it likely doesn't because it doesn't say this on the description. So any user from level 1 who pays without having any Shells at all gets protection from level 1 vs someone who doesn't. Personally I have not lost any gear although from what I hear and know its a very rare chance but in PVP servers in Runes of Magic items could drop and RuneWaker is the same company/devs as Dragons Prophet. I noticed the description seems to have changed a bit, perhaps its only durability that is lost on gear when it is damaged/repaired not sure how the system works but still this system needs to be changed and looked at. So this is where the unfair advantage comes in. 2. Pay 2 Enjoy the part where this comes in I spent $20 yesterday to buy items from cash shop thats a 1 month subscription right there, and then after buying the cosmetic armor I find out I can't color it for FREE, which should by all means be free after giving them a month of game time but instead I find out I can't preview color dyes, I cant choose exactly what RGB I want to color it and pay for it, and I have to unlock random colors which means $300 + USD to unlock them all. So yes it is officially pay 2 enjoy in my book I don't mind paying a one time fee, and for items like GW2 and such but Dragons Prophet is going Pay 2 Enjoy for the most part if it continues the direction it is going right now so its not going to be worth playing unless these changes come to offer more free content, or one time purchase content especially when it comes to colors and RGB not being able to choose your own. Even in Runes OF Magic, coloring is a lot cheaper I believe they might have even made it free to dye clothes.

    Soooo...what you seem to be saying is that YOU cannot enjoy the game without cosmetic armor???????

    This, to me, would seem to maybe be a limitation, not of the game, but in one's self (I do see that you have said this in a roundabout way).

    Not all games have armor cosmetic, and the normal armor in this game looks really good, imo.

    WoW (vanilla) had a lot worse looking armor for level 1-20 (I am only level 19).

    image
  • William12William12 Saint paul, MNMember Posts: 680

    LOL you cannot lose your gear in PVP why would you make assumptions because it happens in another game it happens here ?  Play the game don't spread false rumors of game mechanics that do not exist.

     

     

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranMember Posts: 4,505 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Beoelf21
    i hated this game. It looked ugly and the combat was slow and stupid. granted I only played for 3 hours..i wanted those 3 hours back.

    Yup totally agree with you even maxed out some of the texture and art work is not the best.. and why copy a combat system from tera that everyone complained about.. it dont make sense..

  • AbrrahamAbrraham KopenhagenMember Posts: 149
    Everyone complained about? Tera has got a very healthy playerbase and there are actually lots of people saying that this combat system is great (also, many people only play this game due to its combat because it has no content compared to other big MMOs)!
  • BjelarBjelar RullumpMember Posts: 376 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Renoaku
    1. Games are not pay 2 win because it has a cash shop it becomes pay 2 win when a game offers a unfair advantage over a customer who is not paying. 

    But why on earth would I pay to play a game if it didn't give me an (unfair) advantage?

    Would you pay if you could get just as much without paying? Do you?

    Games cost money. The only "unfair" thing is when someone has to pay so that others can be parasites and play without contributing. That's unfair.

  • woodzip87woodzip87 Warner Robins, GAMember Posts: 10 Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bjelar
    Originally posted by Renoaku
    1. Games are not pay 2 win because it has a cash shop it becomes pay 2 win when a game offers a unfair advantage over a customer who is not paying. 

    But why on earth would I pay to play a game if it didn't give me an (unfair) advantage?

    Would you pay if you could get just as much without paying? Do you?

    Games cost money. The only "unfair" thing is when someone has to pay so that others can be parasites and play without contributing. That's unfair.

    No. The truly successful free to play games are ones that do not give an unfair advantage when you do pay. There are XP and money boosts and such that allow payers to get stronger faster or what have you, but never that makes it where somebody that plays will have an upper hand in battles and such. The payers get to look better, or get better chances at special loot. Blah blah, you get it (i hope). The free to play games that give better equipment and allow people to be generally better do not reach the success that the others do and they definitely don't have the growth that the others do as they're too exclusive. You're either in or out if you want to have fun. You can't decide to dabble here and there and pay sparingly.

  • YaumulYaumul CanberraMember Posts: 11
    Originally posted by bestever
    Originally posted by Beoelf21
    i hated this game. It looked ugly and the combat was slow and stupid. granted I only played for 3 hours..i wanted those 3 hours back.

    Ugly lol okay good one, get a better PC. Slow and stupid combat now thats just a joke because I have a 15 ranger and its far from slow.

    Great game from what I've played and enjoy it more then most mmo's

    I agree the game is god awful ugly. It's not the overall graphics, it's more the look of the cheap character models and especially the terrible combat animations.

     Sounds like It was just as well I uninstalled it concerning the comments about the cash shop.


     

     

  • HeavyBadassHeavyBadass EsbjergMember Posts: 19
    Originally posted by Bjelar
    Originally posted by Renoaku
    1. Games are not pay 2 win because it has a cash shop it becomes pay 2 win when a game offers a unfair advantage over a customer who is not paying. 

    But why on earth would I pay to play a game if it didn't give me an (unfair) advantage?

    Would you pay if you could get just as much without paying? Do you?

    Games cost money. The only "unfair" thing is when someone has to pay so that others can be parasites and play without contributing. That's unfair.

    not sure if trolling or stupid

    the biggest game today (League of legends) earns most it's money through the game on skins

  • sodom1234sodom1234 BerlinMember Posts: 12
    I downloaded the game, played it for 3 Minutes and deinstalled it.

    The graphic sucks.. sorry but who thinks that it looks good seem to have eye cancer. Sure there is a nice ton of slider to adjust you character but it didn't help that most models textures and the polygon count is simply low.
    The animations are a joke .. running around, jumping and npc movement is simply jerky and doll like.
    and finally i entered the first few battles and laughed my ass off. Sorry but it's a really really bad attempt to use TERAs system.

    just a waste of development resources.
  • BjelarBjelar RullumpMember Posts: 376 Uncommon
    Originally posted by HeavyBadass
    Originally posted by Bjelar
    Originally posted by Renoaku
    1. Games are not pay 2 win because it has a cash shop it becomes pay 2 win when a game offers a unfair advantage over a customer who is not paying. 

    But why on earth would I pay to play a game if it didn't give me an (unfair) advantage?

    Would you pay if you could get just as much without paying? Do you?

    Games cost money. The only "unfair" thing is when someone has to pay so that others can be parasites and play without contributing. That's unfair.

    not sure if trolling or stupid

    the biggest game today (League of legends) earns most it's money through the game on skins

    There is no way I would ever pay for fluff. I think you need the number of players LoL's got in order to make much money that way.

    Why can't people pay for themselves if they want to play? Noone answered the "Do you?" question in my original post...

  • HeavyBadassHeavyBadass EsbjergMember Posts: 19
    let's take this little sentence you created "Games cost money. The only "unfair" thing is when someone has to pay so that others can be parasites and play without contributing. That's unfair." then go play a pay to play game, no one is forcing you to pay OR play a f2p game, pay to win games suck as it FORCES you to pay in a free to play game in order to play competitevely with other players, now THAT's unfair, I don't mind paying some cash in a game but as soon as I have to pay in order to compete with paying players I don't want to, paying is my choise, not something I should be forced to do, players add to the game experience so it's not leeching since they are contributing by playing the game with you. And I answered your question fine in my first reply, People pay in LOL but they don't get an edge over other players. As my current status is a student I don't have much money to go around, if I had a higher income then yes I would be paying, I also bought when they had bonus RP in league of legends, i've bought twice.
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.