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Originally posted by Arakazi This is the one area that vanguard got perfect. The scale and size of the world just felt right. Its a place you can disappear into the wilderness. Shame that the game got just about everything else so wrong.
This is so true. Vanguard had it right in this area.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Try mine craft , you can explore in that game , just make sure you find somewhere safe before dark .
Originally posted by maplestone Originally posted by funcon I used to be the explorer type in my first MMO which was WoW. But I dont like it anymore. Even questing. Am I bored or done with MMO's?
In one word, how's real life been going lately?
What's one feeling, experience or activity you'd like to get out of a game right now?
I think this is an excellent question, and one I will ponder instead of hopping from one lacklustre game experience to the next.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
MMORPGs don't create worlds anymore, so it's pointless and boring to try to explore them.
IB4 "GW2 is for explorers" - for me this game is counter exploration, anti-exploration game.
It depends on what you like about exploring. If you can think of a set-up that makes you look forward to exploring in a new game, then maybe it's just boredom with your games. If it's difficult to imagine one that would interest you, then mmos likely just aren't it for you at the moment.
I liked exploring in GW2 pretty well, but a lot of it is treated as a sort of progress bar for players, which takes something away from it for me. ~ I actually really love exploring in Rift, because of artifacts, puzzles, and cairns. The goals are not obvious and aren't part of a progress bar at the character selection screen. You can spoil yourself on puzzles and cairns, but artifacts are much trickier, way more numerous, and while you can memorize spawn locations, reaching some of them can be fairly difficult and the result is somewhat random. It gives exploring the maps a nice Indiana Jones feel to it, especially when you set personal goals like "don't aggro any mobs when looting artifacts" and the like.
I used to love exploring in the older MMO's, but now in modern MMO's, it's all about following the yellow brick road to the next quest hub or tiny little areas like in Neverwinter, which you zone in from a main central hub.
SWTOR basically killed the explorer in me. The first time I got to Tatooine I saw some wreakage and smoke in the distance. The explorer in me wanted to go and investigate, but before I got there I hit the exhaustion zone and had to turn back. I tried to keep playing the game, but lost interest and shortly afterwards logged off and never went back.
I'm hoping games like TESO and EQN will bring back the joy of exploring hugh open worlds again (fingers crossed).
Originally posted by Rydeson I'm an explorer type, and with EQ1 I shined as a druid.. I loved being the master of travel.. I really miss the zones from EQ1 and how so many of them were discovered.. Moving around EQ was not linear like today's junk.. There originally was no in game maps to hold your hand.. EQAtlas was born.. lol Doors to open, traps to fall into, secret passages.. It was all good.. Those were the days .. If they would reset EQ and tweak it some, I would go back in a NY second..
Even EQ the exploration was pretty much trivialized...Players decided they would rather have a handful of zones that gave higher exp and that is the path that almost every player travels now....Gone are the days of boss killing and exploring new places looking for them.....
Sounds like it. Then again, I used to be more of a killer and achiever. As I've grown older I've become almost exclusively an explorer with a little achiever on the side.
Originally posted by Theocritus Originally posted by Rydeson I'm an explorer type, and with EQ1 I shined as a druid.. I loved being the master of travel.. I really miss the zones from EQ1 and how so many of them were discovered.. Moving around EQ was not linear like today's junk.. There originally was no in game maps to hold your hand.. EQAtlas was born.. lol Doors to open, traps to fall into, secret passages.. It was all good.. Those were the days .. If they would reset EQ and tweak it some, I would go back in a NY second..
I agree with Rydeson's points, and I hope that the days of exploring are upon us again when EQ Next comes out. The thing about a sandbox and emergent gameplay is exploring is meaningful, whereas in a linear themepark, if you are exploring, all you tend to find are empty corners of a zone.
I just hope EQ Next's re-envisioning of Norrath has a wide open mysterious world filled with unknowns.
Originally posted by MMOExposed Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac Most games give no real incentive for exploration, sadly.
when did exploring ever have an incentive other than somebody own curiosity?
Well, let's take DAOC for example. I've recently returned to playing a "classic" version of it, and despite my 3.75 years in the game (years ago mostly) there is still quite a bit of exploring I've been doing.
Mostly it's due to the game design. As the progression is based on camp grinding the idea npcs, I search all the maps far and wide looking for NPC's to kill that are appropriate to my level, damage types, resistances and most important of all, that I can outrun when it all goes bad. (tip- avoid giants that greatly out-con you)
This has taken me to almost every god-forsaken part of the map, sometimes just to find a good spot to level in the RVR areas that is really out of the way to avoid unwanted interruptions.
I've even peeked inside several dungeons, but as a mostly solo adventurer (who also needs to kite/kill at range) they really aren't good places to travel.
And I even found a really swell "left handed mug piece" sitting on top of a rock in the middle of no where, no clue what it's for, (Google failed me) but I'll keep my eyes open for the right hand piece and maybe I'll figure it out one day.
I also found places of seeming no importance, trees and small islands in the middle of the water which I can't figure out why the developers bothered to create it...but at least I've been there just in case there's something to find.
Edit: I did want to point out, exploring to collect achievements like in GW2 holds little appeal to me, not interested in fighting, jumping, etc to every part of the map just to get a badge saying I did it.
"Winning" at EVE Online since May, 2007!
In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™ "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by funcon I used to be the explorer type in my first MMO which was WoW. But I dont like it anymore. Even questing. Am I bored or done with MMO's?
I'm just glad you didn't play EQI as then you would of understood what exploring was all about as far as exploring in WoW i'm afraid that was not what I would of called scary, it's always been a hand held MMO to get others who never really played an MMO and even people who have to go through their boring theme park game.
I beta tested Wow and knew straight away I would never play it and like many games I'm sure it will have been dumbed down due to many people crying about how hard it was to get about or play ect.
So your statement about you dislike exploring seems funny to me as that's what good MMO's are all about exploring the surroundings and trying to feel like the first person to be in that area.
Maybe you should look at playing single player RPG games.
I would suggest you do your research before you play any other MMO and avoid what others whine and complain about games which are coming or close to coming out. You need to find your mojo or just take a long break and return to real life then come back with an open mind.
Exploration <> Jumping Puzzles.
That's my only gripe with recent titles, from an exploration POV.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Icewhite Exploration <> Jumping Puzzles. That's my only gripe with recent titles, from an exploration POV.
I noticed devs have recently made that leap (pun intended) and I'm interested in what data they are using that brought them to that conclusion.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by MMOExposed Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac Most games give no real incentive for exploration, sadly.
Been toying with firing up DAOC again for some time now. That MMO had an interesting world, with lots of "off-the-path" stuff to seek out. Great game.
One of the few very fun things about GW2, and the only reason I occasionally log in.
If only there were more reason to explore these things, like a possibility of a rare monster, a hidden merchant with real different stuff to sell, some surpricing element down on that tunnel or dungeon. A one time treasure chest and seeing something new is not quite carrot enough. Offcourse alone it wouldn't make up for the other problems, but a great idea for other games to embrace.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Exploring needs mystery.... excitment... danger... rewards.
Find a tomb thats not on any map that has a hidden trap door that leads to loot, or a boss encounter.
Finding resources that no one really knows about and you keep it a secret, myabe just tell your guild.
But now games are just "unlock this point of interest and get x amount of achivemnt points" wooptie doo..
The stem of the problem is mmo used to be virtual worlds .. aka 3D MuDs,. now that are 3rd person action games for the ADHD gernation..
The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.
The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...
The older mmo's had their limitations but they were much more imessive and fullfilling. Many of them actually required social-interaction with other players to get things done and getting rare-weapons was an achivement.. Now today we have instance dungeons, instant raids etc and quickly hurrying on from quest to quest to get to the next part of the game.
Your probably looking for games that are less on shallowness and more on exploration like the older ones. That's why I love the sandbox genre. Can do anything as wanted with no pre-defined paths, mobs scattered randomly in spots just to be killed, or spaces that offer no exploration. Build what you want, play as you want do what you want or branching off main quests to do or find something else. If not sometime it is good to take break too.
What Games Need That Are Lacking:
1) Create a story that draws players into it. Sometimes these takes risks or surprises to do. Don't make it so predictable and script-written that it mundane. Add some spice.
2) Extensive Customization. The ability to design nearly whatever player chooses from default customizations or possibly their own within game.
3)Living Environment. An Open-world environment can fuel endless possibilites. But if the sky is the same and nothing really happens then its not living. Basics should be Day Evening and Night Modes monster/npc interactions, weather-changes and seasonal changes. Even freak of nature events (tornadoes, fire-storms, snow-storms, monster attacks, "Acts of God")
4) Give a little more flexibility and freedom to players. Too much defined classes. Ability to switch weapons or branch classes. If see an axe used by a monster should be able to take it and use too, and monsters should be able to use weapons found in environment as well and use too. Also should be ownership of land and ability to pack up a tent and heal almost anywhere if not in-town. But of course, the tent <could> be attackable if in an aggro or open ungaurded area. The taming of monsters should be included as well too.
5) More Battle Options. While fighting on ground is good, wouldn't it be lovely to fight ground air and water and in addition of traveling space-side? Imagine entire other <worlds> that can be visted within the game! Action would be great along with puzzle combinations and traps. Also ability to fight while mounted on a pet.
So many ideas so little time. Where is all the creative part of gaming gone to for now?
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by Icewhite Exploration <> Jumping Puzzles. That's my only gripe with recent titles, from an exploration POV.
Maybe the inspiration came from the Quake 2 mod "Jump", Counter Strike mod "Climb" or Warsow mod "Race". All had the same basic idea, but while the focus was more on the racing part, some of the maps were fairly puzzle-like (especially in Climb). Naturally since movement in MMORPGs is what it is, there would be less racing and more puzzle.
Then again, the classic platformers would be likely candidate too.
They are fun. For the first time at least. Same as exploration.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by ReallyNow10 Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by MMOExposed Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac Most games give no real incentive for exploration, sadly.
Well, keep in mind that the current EA version really makes it easy to level up, with reports of people being power-leveled in a matter of a few days, so not so sure it's relevant there anymore.
On the server I'm on it's circa 2002, pre SI even, so the experience is more old school in terms of a leveling curve, and for some classes, grouping is really still rather necessary to progress at a reasonable rate. And the last 5 levels (where I'm currently at, still a killer)