While I agree with the OP as limited fast travel does add a sense of depth. I just ask if any of you have played GW2 with there waypoint system. While it does take away from the immersion. It is very convenient. I am guilty of using it. Where as I could just choose not to.
So this brings up the argument of convenience vs immersion. If they did put in alot of ways to travel. Would you use them ?
i suppose if they don't give the option well then there is always that.
most worlds these days do feel awfully small in comparison to even early EQ1 Norrath before even kunark. This did have alot to do with the fact it took time to travell.
conveniance vs immersion. That will be a hard fought battle for sure.
unless you want to alienate a big chunk of players then EQnext needs to have fast and instant travel.
I had time years ago to sit on some boat that took 45mins to 1 hour to come and then take another 1 hour to get to a harbour.
Nowadays i barely have more then 3 hours at best a day of free time and half that time i spent it doing something else.So i am certainly not spending most of my playtime just getting to one spot and be forced to stay there for weeks due to time restriction.
If the old EQ1 system of travel returns i for one will not bother to play it.
I guess each to his own I know some vets want the old system back from EQ1 but honestly when i think back to how much time was spent getting to certain zones i just laugh how on earth i had that sort of time back then.Heck even WoW travel as launch seems slow now !
I'm in favor of slow travel. I liked that it was worth committing to where you were rather than jumping around from spot to spot.
You actually got to recognize the same people hanging out in the zone.
It alienates too many people. They HAVE to get the common MMO fan into this game. They wont survive on just bringing over the old EQ1+EQ2 vets, if they're trying to be as revolutionary as theyre proclaiming to be and if the success of this game is needed for SOE to continue (Whether that be the whole company or just the EQ portion, who knows, but it sounded serious)
They have to attract the common MMO fan because there are more of them than EQ vets. Most people who game MMOs today, a lot didnt play Everquest ever and its too outdated to want to go back and play now.
I'm in favor of slow travel. I liked that it was worth committing to where you were rather than jumping around from spot to spot.
You actually got to recognize the same people hanging out in the zone.
It alienates too many people. They HAVE to get the common MMO fan into this game. They wont survive on just bringing over the old EQ1+EQ2 vets, if they're trying to be as revolutionary as theyre proclaiming to be and if the success of this game is needed for SOE to continue (Whether that be the whole company or just the EQ portion, who knows, but it sounded serious)
They have to attract the common MMO fan because there are more of them than EQ vets. Most people who game MMOs today, a lot didnt play Everquest ever and its too outdated to want to go back and play now.
Im sure that's what they are planning on doing; attracting both the old AND the new MMO fan. IF you're suggesting that not having fast travel will solely be the newer MMO player's mitigating decision on choosing to play this game, you're sadly mistaken. That's like saying that if Skyrim was exactly the same as it is right now, except that it didn't have fast travel, that people wouldn't play it because of that and the game wouldn't attract enough people for them to profit from the game.
I'm in favor of slow travel. I liked that it was worth committing to where you were rather than jumping around from spot to spot.
You actually got to recognize the same people hanging out in the zone.
It alienates too many people. They HAVE to get the common MMO fan into this game. They wont survive on just bringing over the old EQ1+EQ2 vets, if they're trying to be as revolutionary as theyre proclaiming to be and if the success of this game is needed for SOE to continue (Whether that be the whole company or just the EQ portion, who knows, but it sounded serious)
They have to attract the common MMO fan because there are more of them than EQ vets. Most people who game MMOs today, a lot didnt play Everquest ever and its too outdated to want to go back and play now.
What Smed does on normal non classic EQ type servers is ok but on a classic EQ type server fast travel should not be in. You are also forgetting that the game will be f2p, that alone will warrant people trying the game no matter what.
Who is Everquest Next's target audience? The common MMO fan + EQ vets most likely. EQ vets are older now. Probably in their 20+
I must admit, I lolled...
I'm a EQvet, from day 1, March 1999... I'm flattered that you call me 20+... Try 40+ today.
If they target guys like me, I've already said what I want in this thread, I just had to make a comment about this one. hehehe
Lol, is the person you quoted for real, EQ vet's in their 20+, i would say 30+ at the very least.
I'm 23 and I played the red headed stepchild Everquest for a few years (EQOA for PS2) and I know about the content/etc of EQ1/EQ2, at that age I didnt have my own computer though and such. I dont think its unfair to call myself an EQ vet even if it was EQOA.
I liked the coach system in EQOA: you could return to any coach station where you had signed the register (I don't recall if the coaches cost money to use; if not, they should have). The coaches only ran on fixed routes, so a long journey could take multiple relays. This was especially true if you took a roundabout "safe" route to reach places, and signing the register in a town where you were KOS was an adventure! There were teleporter NPCs that would send a newbie (and only a newbie) to the nearest city from a starter area; I remember once taking that trip and THEN remembering that I hadn't yet signed up at my home town coach!
So here I am playing Darkfall UW, and I need to make a journey to Dwarflands. "Damn it" I said to myself, I can't afford a summons from someone so Iam going to trek it old school style. I grab a mount from my bank, spawn that bad boy and jump on the saddle quick.
I start my journey. Along the way I come across a strange glimmer of something shiney just off the road. A CHAOS CHEST! Awesome. Just picked up 150g, materials, and a deed. Off I go to coninue my journey.
As I am riding i stop for a sec to check out the scenery as the sun setting glistens off the virtual water, "epic, screen shot time"
I sally forth.... I hear the clickity clank of battle off into the distance. I come across a dying player running from 3 Skeleon Fighters. I dismount in a hurry and wave him down. As he gets closer I cast 3 Healing Blasts his way and help him fight off the monsters. We head back to the mob spawn spot he was farming, and he tells me to feel free and loot all the corpses as gratitude for my heals. While looting I come across 2 champion corpses each with 50g on them, he says I can have them. Neat, great day so far.
I continue on my journey, but not before stopping 2 more times to mine some iron ore which is rare in the safezones.
Moral of the story: had I not undertaken the "slow long travel" I would've never made all that gold, met a new friend, and discovered a neat low-key iron ore spot.
So yes, I'd like slow travel over "instant teleport" anyday.
It's hard to say how meaningful any of this even will be.
They seem to have distanced themselves from even some comment about "It'll be more like eq1 than eq2". Whatever they've got going sounds like it's something different from before at least, for better or for worse. Might need to stop thinking in terms of eq1.
Have to wait until that august reveal I guess, to at least see barebones what the games about.
I couldn't agree with the OP more. Limiting fast travel creates immersion. What has happened to immersion? Did game developers forget that they are creating worlds that players will be "living" in? I am so tired of god mode. For example, in Guild Wars 2, you can click all over the map and be teleported instantly. I mean that game is totally boring, so thank god for waypoints, but seriously, some worlds like Norrath are too precious to not be taken seriously.
MMO's are only successful if the community is strong. Do you remember being a Druid or a Wizard in vanilla EverQuest? You were VALUED for your powers of teleportation. You made an income this way. You were needed.
Does ANYONE want you in Guild Wars 2? Nope. Why is Guild Wars 2 even an MMO? If you want to play solo, buy an offline game. I just don't understand catering to solo players if it means breaking immersion and community.
Give me a world that FEELS like a real fantasy world. I need to catch my ship to make it to Freeport. I need find my Druid friend, who can help me get to Kunark. If I'm teleported instantly, I'm going to burn through game content so fast and it will become boring. But that never happens with new games, right?
I still can't believe game developers don't understand this.
as to mount training i like the idea but dont make it a class just a crafting profession anyone can partake in
i disagree with one thing op, i do not want everyone to have caster like bind only casters should be able bind close to a dungeun damnit.
they can have some fast travel and some slow, i dont think Most zones should be more than 15 to at he most 25 mins from any other, but theres a place for slow travel to say you want to go to a isle in oot the boat to mysterious island of dinosaurs takes half an hour but its NOT sit in a boot and afk on pvp servers you could have pirates on pve monsters and npcs could attack you and we could have some for realz ship to ship combat lol player made boats woooot.
and damnit the first time you see a continent you have to travel there the slow way by boat or caravan or flying blimp/carpet or what not i was so disapointed when the gnomeish rocket ship to luclin "Crashed", which by the bye im hopeing to see the remains of off steamfont in eqnext !
anyone have a problem with haveing to travelt he slow way once betweeen continents or expansions?
people could set up player run escourts to places like "dino island" if they want to afk and get there alive
Now i wouldnt say there should be day to day stuff in these slow travel areas no... travel quests resource nodes epics and stuff yea sure
speaking of places to slow travel to other than oot. id like to see ro vastly expanded, with some areas you take a escourt to, player run or otherwise
There could be lots of islands allover the coast too and some really epicly far ones in the middle of the ocean or perhaps in the frozen waste lands of velious
also everfrost, the karanas the astral plane and other planes, emerald jungle in kunark one of my favorite zones ever
There would still be npc run escourts but player run would be far faster and would require bought( the slowest) crafted the fastest vehicles and mounts carts, boats hrm rockets for luclin and other moons and such maybe even drills for parts of the underfoot eventually
Player run escourts would be a crafting profession the speed would depend on your familiarity with the route, your monster avoidance skill( as in if you have 1 skill you constantly have monsters spawning and attacking you and of course your mount and vehicle
you could get to those areas wo escourts npc or otherwise but it would be slower
if they did something like this people who want to take it slow could do so and the swarm could have its faster travel and ignore traveling for the most part
As someone who loves the slow travel of Final fanasy xi, i can't vote for it for future games. It's why so many of those games failed. If i can't get online and team up with my wife within 20 minutes you're going to have at least 1 less subscriber. I wouldn't mind a compromise where the whole game is slow travel but you can designate up to 5 people that you can teleport to anywhere. This would be difficult to change, very similar to the friend system microsoft is using. There could be a system that means you can't go anywhere you have never been.
UO recall system is the way to go. use it if you want, ignore it if you don't.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
Yeah, some of my fondest memories are from vanilla wow, the Naxxramas Track Team. We died so much and had to run back so much, that's what we dubbed ourselves.
"gettting there is half the fun" Holds true irl, holds true in mmos.
Less immersion breaking carebear -phasing- instanced- cutscene- fast travel game machanincs, more virtual world k thx.
Very true. Some of the best times I had in SWG was when I'd be part of a group making the long, and sometimes dangerous, run to the Tusken fort to grind xp. Flying there, teleporting , getting summoned, or even going by mount just wouldn't have been the same.
I really hope EQN makes the world dangerous and difficult to traverse.
Sure, I'm for fast travel. I mean who wants to spend their nights entertainment holding down the directional button? However if it's open world PvP, then it's a different matter entirely.
Originally posted by Arakazi Sure, I'm for fast travel. I mean who wants to spend their nights entertainment holding down the directional button? However if it's open world PvP, then it's a different matter entirely.
That's a small view of what not having fast travel can do. A well designed game can have danger at every turn without resulting to fps game design.
GW2 was the worst for travel I mean really there was a portal in the middle of your starting zone that takes you to a city of portals that will take you to every other city:(
I don't remember going anywhere fast in EQ1, if you where the wrong level or thought you could just go anywhere you like some mob would put you in your place in a heartbeat! Let alone other factions, remember sneaking into the humans city through the sewers and hoped your invis held up:) Just to take the boat.
Ultima Online still has the best travel system where at higher magery levels you could cast spells to mark runes for runebooks which you had to craft using inscription or find someone who could do it for you or on a vendor, you had to use "recall scrolls" if you were a non-mage, usually you had to buy off player vendors unless you had a mage (I never worked up a mage for a long time in UO..) They could also cast portals where multiple people could go through, I think it was till like 80.0 magery until you can cast moongates in UO and most of the time you fail until you reach 100.0, we also had mounts and boats to travel by..
Now and days we have teleport crystals that can bring you to any city or dungeon in UO (it can't bring you back to your house) and you could use Chivalry..
Anyways, I wouldn't mind having something like in Elder Scrolls Oblivion or Skyrim where you have to discover locations to fast travel to them but I wouldn't having a system like in Ultima Online either.. (and I bet this is something we're gonna see in Everquest Next..)
Comments
I must admit, I lolled...
I'm a EQvet, from day 1, March 1999... I'm flattered that you call me 20+... Try 40+ today.
If they target guys like me, I've already said what I want in this thread, I just had to make a comment about this one. hehehe
Size not Depth.
unless you want to alienate a big chunk of players then EQnext needs to have fast and instant travel.
I had time years ago to sit on some boat that took 45mins to 1 hour to come and then take another 1 hour to get to a harbour.
Nowadays i barely have more then 3 hours at best a day of free time and half that time i spent it doing something else.So i am certainly not spending most of my playtime just getting to one spot and be forced to stay there for weeks due to time restriction.
If the old EQ1 system of travel returns i for one will not bother to play it.
I guess each to his own I know some vets want the old system back from EQ1 but honestly when i think back to how much time was spent getting to certain zones i just laugh how on earth i had that sort of time back then.Heck even WoW travel as launch seems slow now !
I'm in favor of slow travel. I liked that it was worth committing to where you were rather than jumping around from spot to spot.
You actually got to recognize the same people hanging out in the zone.
It alienates too many people. They HAVE to get the common MMO fan into this game. They wont survive on just bringing over the old EQ1+EQ2 vets, if they're trying to be as revolutionary as theyre proclaiming to be and if the success of this game is needed for SOE to continue (Whether that be the whole company or just the EQ portion, who knows, but it sounded serious)
They have to attract the common MMO fan because there are more of them than EQ vets. Most people who game MMOs today, a lot didnt play Everquest ever and its too outdated to want to go back and play now.
Im sure that's what they are planning on doing; attracting both the old AND the new MMO fan. IF you're suggesting that not having fast travel will solely be the newer MMO player's mitigating decision on choosing to play this game, you're sadly mistaken. That's like saying that if Skyrim was exactly the same as it is right now, except that it didn't have fast travel, that people wouldn't play it because of that and the game wouldn't attract enough people for them to profit from the game.
This/
Ah the good old days of wizard and druid porting, let's hope has this on the hardcore EQ classic type server he has loosely mentioned.
What Smed does on normal non classic EQ type servers is ok but on a classic EQ type server fast travel should not be in. You are also forgetting that the game will be f2p, that alone will warrant people trying the game no matter what.
Lol, is the person you quoted for real, EQ vet's in their 20+, i would say 30+ at the very least.
I'm 23 and I played the red headed stepchild Everquest for a few years (EQOA for PS2) and I know about the content/etc of EQ1/EQ2, at that age I didnt have my own computer though and such. I dont think its unfair to call myself an EQ vet even if it was EQOA.
So here I am playing Darkfall UW, and I need to make a journey to Dwarflands. "Damn it" I said to myself, I can't afford a summons from someone so Iam going to trek it old school style. I grab a mount from my bank, spawn that bad boy and jump on the saddle quick.
I start my journey. Along the way I come across a strange glimmer of something shiney just off the road. A CHAOS CHEST! Awesome. Just picked up 150g, materials, and a deed. Off I go to coninue my journey.
As I am riding i stop for a sec to check out the scenery as the sun setting glistens off the virtual water, "epic, screen shot time"
I sally forth.... I hear the clickity clank of battle off into the distance. I come across a dying player running from 3 Skeleon Fighters. I dismount in a hurry and wave him down. As he gets closer I cast 3 Healing Blasts his way and help him fight off the monsters. We head back to the mob spawn spot he was farming, and he tells me to feel free and loot all the corpses as gratitude for my heals. While looting I come across 2 champion corpses each with 50g on them, he says I can have them. Neat, great day so far.
I continue on my journey, but not before stopping 2 more times to mine some iron ore which is rare in the safezones.
Moral of the story: had I not undertaken the "slow long travel" I would've never made all that gold, met a new friend, and discovered a neat low-key iron ore spot.
So yes, I'd like slow travel over "instant teleport" anyday.
It's hard to say how meaningful any of this even will be.
They seem to have distanced themselves from even some comment about "It'll be more like eq1 than eq2". Whatever they've got going sounds like it's something different from before at least, for better or for worse. Might need to stop thinking in terms of eq1.
Have to wait until that august reveal I guess, to at least see barebones what the games about.
I couldn't agree with the OP more. Limiting fast travel creates immersion. What has happened to immersion? Did game developers forget that they are creating worlds that players will be "living" in? I am so tired of god mode. For example, in Guild Wars 2, you can click all over the map and be teleported instantly. I mean that game is totally boring, so thank god for waypoints, but seriously, some worlds like Norrath are too precious to not be taken seriously.
MMO's are only successful if the community is strong. Do you remember being a Druid or a Wizard in vanilla EverQuest? You were VALUED for your powers of teleportation. You made an income this way. You were needed.
Does ANYONE want you in Guild Wars 2? Nope. Why is Guild Wars 2 even an MMO? If you want to play solo, buy an offline game. I just don't understand catering to solo players if it means breaking immersion and community.
Give me a world that FEELS like a real fantasy world. I need to catch my ship to make it to Freeport. I need find my Druid friend, who can help me get to Kunark. If I'm teleported instantly, I'm going to burn through game content so fast and it will become boring. But that never happens with new games, right?
I still can't believe game developers don't understand this.
as to mount training i like the idea but dont make it a class just a crafting profession anyone can partake in
i disagree with one thing op, i do not want everyone to have caster like bind only casters should be able bind close to a dungeun damnit.
they can have some fast travel and some slow, i dont think Most zones should be more than 15 to at he most 25 mins from any other, but theres a place for slow travel to say you want to go to a isle in oot the boat to mysterious island of dinosaurs takes half an hour but its NOT sit in a boot and afk on pvp servers you could have pirates on pve monsters and npcs could attack you and we could have some for realz ship to ship combat lol player made boats woooot.
and damnit the first time you see a continent you have to travel there the slow way by boat or caravan or flying blimp/carpet or what not i was so disapointed when the gnomeish rocket ship to luclin "Crashed", which by the bye im hopeing to see the remains of off steamfont in eqnext !
anyone have a problem with haveing to travelt he slow way once betweeen continents or expansions?
people could set up player run escourts to places like "dino island" if they want to afk and get there alive
Now i wouldnt say there should be day to day stuff in these slow travel areas no... travel quests resource nodes epics and stuff yea sure
speaking of places to slow travel to other than oot. id like to see ro vastly expanded, with some areas you take a escourt to, player run or otherwise
There could be lots of islands allover the coast too and some really epicly far ones in the middle of the ocean or perhaps in the frozen waste lands of velious
also everfrost, the karanas the astral plane and other planes, emerald jungle in kunark one of my favorite zones ever
There would still be npc run escourts but player run would be far faster and would require bought( the slowest) crafted the fastest vehicles and mounts carts, boats hrm rockets for luclin and other moons and such maybe even drills for parts of the underfoot eventually
Player run escourts would be a crafting profession the speed would depend on your familiarity with the route, your monster avoidance skill( as in if you have 1 skill you constantly have monsters spawning and attacking you and of course your mount and vehicle
you could get to those areas wo escourts npc or otherwise but it would be slower
if they did something like this people who want to take it slow could do so and the swarm could have its faster travel and ignore traveling for the most part
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
Very true. Some of the best times I had in SWG was when I'd be part of a group making the long, and sometimes dangerous, run to the Tusken fort to grind xp. Flying there, teleporting , getting summoned, or even going by mount just wouldn't have been the same.
I really hope EQN makes the world dangerous and difficult to traverse.
That's a small view of what not having fast travel can do. A well designed game can have danger at every turn without resulting to fps game design.
GW2 was the worst for travel I mean really there was a portal in the middle of your starting zone that takes you to a city of portals that will take you to every other city:(
I don't remember going anywhere fast in EQ1, if you where the wrong level or thought you could just go anywhere you like some mob would put you in your place in a heartbeat! Let alone other factions, remember sneaking into the humans city through the sewers and hoped your invis held up:) Just to take the boat.
+100
Ultima Online still has the best travel system where at higher magery levels you could cast spells to mark runes for runebooks which you had to craft using inscription or find someone who could do it for you or on a vendor, you had to use "recall scrolls" if you were a non-mage, usually you had to buy off player vendors unless you had a mage (I never worked up a mage for a long time in UO..) They could also cast portals where multiple people could go through, I think it was till like 80.0 magery until you can cast moongates in UO and most of the time you fail until you reach 100.0, we also had mounts and boats to travel by..
Now and days we have teleport crystals that can bring you to any city or dungeon in UO (it can't bring you back to your house) and you could use Chivalry..
Anyways, I wouldn't mind having something like in Elder Scrolls Oblivion or Skyrim where you have to discover locations to fast travel to them but I wouldn't having a system like in Ultima Online either.. (and I bet this is something we're gonna see in Everquest Next..)