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Is EQ just nostalgia, or was it really that good?

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  • singe22singe22 Stockton], CAPosts: 5Member

    I made an account so i can reply to this posting.

     

    I played EQ from release till Planes of Power.  No game to this date can ever fill that void of gameplay that EQ gave me.

     

    I think the main thing these new mmo's are missing is the content.  Whats the point in having dungeons for lvl 20s,30s,40s, when people mad dash to the level cap to experience the end game.  You have never seen any other MMO to date that a item you get from you lower levels can still play a role in your gaming experience at max level.

    After a few times of getting my kills stolen in EQ, i adapted my playstyle to do more dps or pull to different areas.  In everquest nobody was unntouchable.  Even players with big egos had their bad days that made them move closer to becoming more humble.

    I remember being Kill on Site to freeport guards. I had to use the secret tunnel to get to the boat zone. Me and a few KOS players would be huddled up and do a mad dash to the boat.  When your on pier running straight at the boat hoping it doesnt cast off just yet with a guard chasing you also.  Nothing has be able to capture that excitment ever for me on a online MMO.

    The world was huge. And someone said it earlier, doors for the most part opened.  They werent just there like a painting.

    EQ had bugs and faults.  I would rage sometimes out of frustration,  twice i deleted my character and they restored me after i begged for another chance.

    It was fun pushing our limits.  Duoing sebilis with an enchanter guildmate. Being part of a raiding guild and getting items that practically nobody had.  Before instancing you could be unique.  Before my guild took over the top spot as the top raiding guild on our server we had to work for it.  We had to  get organized faster.  Keep tanks alive, do great dps and learn the encounter. Play our best everytime. 

    I was a mage and i would go to lower level zones and hide my air pet.  Let it invis and then shout that whoever finds my pet (insert name) would get 10 plat.

    And leveling up skills after leveling up.  If you wanted to be great at different weapon types, armor you had to wear it and fight with it to increase. Other skills like languages, foraging etc?  Todays games its just given.

    EQ isnt going to be liked or respected by the players post WOW because it was hard. Nothing was given to you besides your newbie start weapon, tunic/robe and food and water rations.

  • SlukjanSlukjan Burlington, VTPosts: 251Member Uncommon

    EQ classic was far superior to almost all other MMOs out there today.  If EQN captures the essence of classic EQ (kunark + velious) and balances it with modern day sensabilities then I will be well pleased.  I prefer the slower progression.  I liked that I could travel the world (I was a wizard) and decide what kind of adventures to get in to. I would spend time in South Karanas killings gnolls or aviaks...selling my common drops to npcs and saving my money...then running to EC (couldn't port to RO at the time) to see what kind of gear upgrades I could buy. And while I was over there maybe i would level at the oasis or ro deserts. 

    As I advanced I was thrilled to be making GOOD money porting/transing people...especially transing...fast easy money to buy  new gears with :)

    I would usually solo somewere while trying to find a group.  Once in a group, chaining mobs was fun cause the action was constant and the exp was great,  Once I got my stun spells I could keep a drolvarg stunned while while the group took it down...it would only land a few shots on the tank and once it was down the next one was on deck waiting to be killed. 

    Finally getting to a high enough level that i didn't have to stare at my spellbook while medding.

    I just thoroughly enjoyed blasting the shit out of mobs.

    SoW potions for the quad kiting.

    Slow combat and normal mobs actually posing a threat made the game more enjoyable. I hate action button mashing arcade style combat.

    Although some people describe combat as pushing the same buttons over and over it never felt that way for me.  I was engaged in the world and having fun.

    Being able to collect, use, then resell gear. I hate bind on pick up loots.

    Being able to form different types of groups depending on what classes where available.  Several classes could fill different roles so there was variety. Sometimes you could get away with a bard or ranger tanking if you had lots of dps. Other times you  needed a tank. Just the variety of classes was great.

    A huge open world that was challenging to traverse and feeling a sense of accomplishment just getting from point a to b.

    Learning new zones.  Getting to a new zone and having to learn the lay of the land and the camp spots took some time. You didnt just follow your map indicators because there was no map.  You had to explore cautiously and use /loc to have any idea where you were. It would be scary getting too far away from the zone line of an unfamliar zone cause you might get lost and killed.

    There were so many things I loved about EQ but no one has been able to recreate it with modern appeal.  WoW was an EQ clone but it was still a very different game then EQ.

    Here's hoping EQN will recapture that Everquest feeling.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member

    It was the first time most people had played an mmo so everything was new and amazing..definitely nostalgia.

    My first mmo was horizons empire of istaria and i thought it was the most amazing thing i'd ever seen.

  • flizzerflizzer Manchester, NHPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon

    It is amazing how nostalgia colors our perceptions.  My first MMO experience was Runescape and I thought that was better than sliced bread.  When I first logged in I didn't even understand all those other people running around were other players. I just thought they were NPCs.   I was able to buy things in the store and run around and kill goblins.  I was up all night playing the game when I first discovered it!  

     

    Recently I went back and lasted less than 5 minutes before I couldn't deal with it anymore.  

     

    I'm sure Everquest when it released was an amazing experience, as many here claim.  Gaming has advanced and gamers today would not see this game as amazing anymore.   If EQ next copies this game it will be a failure no doubt.   For EQ Next to success it has to understand developements in MMOs since that time and present them in a unique way and , dare I say,  offer us something new perhaps?

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,229Member Uncommon

    EQ was so good that no one left it to play WoW. In fact, WoW just never took off, the MMO community didn't support it and it fell flat with only 20,000 subs.

  • faxnadufaxnadu HelsinkiPosts: 940Member Uncommon
    simply nostalgia , first love is always first love type of thing. one should not be fooled by these people barking back in the days mmos were better cause mostly they werent even there or if they were they didnt even play those games just barking out of boredom and simply cause its believed to be such a cool thing to note to everyone that mmos use to be good.
  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by koboldfodder

     Luclin added portals from the wizard Spires to a central Hub on the moon....effectively destroying the world in terms of travel time.  

    So instead of taking two hours to get from a to b, it took 45 minutes.  Even with the PoK stones you still usually had to travel through at least 2 or 3 zones.  This is the exact type of rose colored glasses stuff that the OP was talking about.  And instant porting was in EQ day 1 anyway, the fastest way to get somewhere has always been druid/wizard.

     

    The only real negative with Luclin/PoP is the neutral city.  But they didnt remove travel time, they just made it more manageable.  the long travel times are epic unless you only have two hours to play.

    The best solution is to unlock travel only after youve been there once.  Even the run through Kithicor became a little bring after i had done it a half dozen times.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    My fondest memory is waiting for those shuttle in SWG. One used come every 15 minutes then they changed it to 5 and then 2 minutes :(
  • p4ttythep3rf3ctp4ttythep3rf3ct Austin, TXPosts: 120Member

    It was that good.  

     

    In was, in fact, ground-breaking and it set up the template from which nearly every MMO released afterwards would copy.  You don't get dubbed Evercrack because people are feeling nostalgic.  

    That's just, like, my opinion, man.

  • p4ttythep3rf3ctp4ttythep3rf3ct Austin, TXPosts: 120Member
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    My fondest memory is waiting for those shuttle in SWG. One used come every 15 minutes then they changed it to 5 and then 2 minutes :(

    Oh man, waiting for the boat in EQ to cross the Ocean of Tears.  A real-life 40-minute boat ride and I loved every minute of it, once I learned to fish.

    That's just, like, my opinion, man.

  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Most of us have been playing a new version of the same game for the last 10 years. The only ground breaking game in the last 10 years was swg and they ruined that.
  • KilrainKilrain Prineville, ORPosts: 684Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psiic
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    For me, EQ was good and bad.

    The Bad
    - I felt I had to group once I got past level 20 in order to do almost anything.
    - The crafting was good, but the ingredients for making quest items did not always make sense.
    - Trains of Mobs chasing other players occasionally jumping onto you.
    - Open world dungeons where 1 group screws up and kills other groups in the dungeon.
    - Plenty of boring quests.
    - Possibility of losing levels when defeated/killed.
    - Corpse Runs.

    The Good
    - Slow combat.
    - Fun Grouping.
    - Many diverse classes. [15 at launch]
    - Many diverse races. [12 at launch]
    - Open world that fostered working together.
    - Mobs that chased you ALL over the zone.
    - Zone lines that saved your ass from the above.
    - Trains of Mobs chasing other players, making "being aware" a very good skill to have.
    - Actual Type Chat with NPCs through the chat window.
    - High Level aggressive Mobs in most low level zones.
    - Open World dungeons, allowing for multiple camp sites with multiple groups.
    - The chance of failure.
    - Many classes had abilities that other players needed to help them play more efficiently. [Buffs, tracking, ports]
    - Epic Quests.
    - Lots of interesting smaller quests.
    - Allocating points to train skills at a trainer when a character leveled up.
    - Attributes to define at creation.
    - LEARNABLE LANGUAGES!
    - The best Bard Class I have yet to play. Just the right mix of simplicity and complexity.
    - Corpse Runs.

    You may notice that some features are in both categories. That happens :)

    A real risk vs reward system. When you could delevel over your stupidity and screwups you played a lot more carefully and thoughtfully.

    All of this and more. Perfect. If they Updated the graphics there would be no other.

    professional web programming and design.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Kilrain
    All of this and more. Perfect. If they Updated the graphics there would be no other.

    Didn't it have all of that when EQ2 and WoW released?

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ninjapyninjapy berkeley springs, WVPosts: 39Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strangiato2112

    EQ Vanilla/Kunark/Velious endgame is mostly nostalgia.  Once AAs came around though the EQ endgame was awesome, and LDoN remains the best instanced system ever because of the random element involved

     

    What isn't nostalgia though is the long, meaningful leveling process in a fantastic world with fantastic cities, zones, and dungeons.

     

    Edit:  the #1 thing about EQ that made it shine so brightly and no game since has come *remotely* close is the group mechanics.

    The group mechanics were absolutely amazing.

    I agree 100 percent. I Started playing a few days after the release of Velious . My first MMO ever. Oh man good times. Sitting in Crushbone running from Orc trains to zone. Getting lost in Lower Fay. Looking at your spellbook regenerating mana in EC tunnel, then dieng from a Griffon someone trained there. Running thru Kith forest at night, yikes. Watching Bards Kite Cyclopes and Hill Giants. Running across the Karana's or what some without SOW call " Texas". Fippy  Darkpaw!

    I could go on , damn, need to get on that Emu server now.

     

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by faxnadu
    simply nostalgia , first love is always first love type of thing. one should not be fooled by these people barking back in the days mmos were better cause mostly they werent even there or if they were they didnt even play those games just barking out of boredom and simply cause its believed to be such a cool thing to note to everyone that mmos use to be good.

    Hows this work if UO was your first love?  Second love then?  How about having 3rd and 4th loves?  How about loving 10 years worth of MMOs and thinking newer ones suck?  I don't buy this argument.

     

    Actually EQ WAS good/great, LDoN+....not so much imo.

     

    How is telling a random person on the internet that you liked a MMO 'cool'?  Sorry, some of us do not like all the over instancing/phasing in a lot of the newer mmos.  Rose colored glasses, nostalgia, whatever else is the excuse to wish it away, don't hold water imo.

     

    I even liked one of the newer mmos, but it had content problems, that are understandable, given the nature of what made it a unique and good game for me.  It was TSW, the quests/stories and stuff I thought were different and well done...Just I think it would take a lot of time to make whole new content areas for it, given the depth that I thought they used.  I have been thinking of trying some of the new stuff out in it, but it being good, doesn't make it great. 

    GW2...Tried it for a session and was bored, it seems to directed/hand held and cluttered.  You trip over a quest every couple steps, felt like a pinball in a pinball machine, and I hated the classes I tried...I was really thinking GW2 was going to last me till ArcheAge or EQN.

     

    SWTOR - Decent for being like a lobby game, and playing the story, even thought the light and dark stories are about 99% the same, as me and my wife did the same class, but the opposite options, so I was comparing and talking about it the whole way.  Once I was done with the story, I was done with the MMO.  So I considered I got my money worth.

     

    Those are the 2 I bought recently (besides TSW), so I had a playing session past beta for GW2, and played the story in TOR and TSW...So bad for me, and two where I got my money worth...Nothing good or great I wanted to stay and play.

     

    I do not have gamer ADD, I always stayed in MMOs for at least a year, until Rift.  Only played WoW beta, didn't like it either.  So I am not overly joyed that a MMO here and there is good to play the story through.  I want a mmo with a world to play in and stay playing.  I found that in multiple mmos for roughly 10 years, but not in Rift, TOR, TSW, GW2, and many other trials/betas (Neverwinter being the latest).

     

    People like different stuff, a lot of people obviously love WoW, TOR, Rift, Neverwinter as a home, me not so much, and glasses/nostalgia don't have a thing to do with it.

     

     

     

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Rusque

    EQ was so good that no one left it to play WoW. In fact, WoW just never took off, the MMO community didn't support it and it fell flat with only 20,000 subs.

    uh, 99.99% of WoW players never played EQ

    WoW had 12 million player at it's peak, EQ had 600k

    Sure, some people went to play WoW, but WoW didn't kill EQ.

    EQ and WoW were very very different games, WoW was a casual quest grinder, EQ was an extremely brutal XP grinder, especially during GoD when WoW launched.

     

    Most EQ players who went to WoW were guilds who enjoyed a more casual game, and people with families who couldn't devote the time to socialise anymore, and wanted to progress solo and get things done in 30 minutes instead of hours.

    There's a real misunderstanding about EQ when players say "WoW is an EQ clone", they're extremely different games. They're statements from players who never played EQ.

  • tank017tank017 Glendale, CAPosts: 2,192Member
    Originally posted by faxnadu
    simply nostalgia , first love is always first love type of thing. one should not be fooled by these people barking back in the days mmos were better cause mostly they werent even there or if they were they didnt even play those games just barking out of boredom and simply cause its believed to be such a cool thing to note to everyone that mmos use to be good.


    LOL, ok...you keep thinking that.

     

    just so you know though,youre very much wrong.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Kilrain
    All of this and more. Perfect. If they Updated the graphics there would be no other.


    Didn't it have all of that when EQ2 and WoW released?

     

    They have done a few updates, but it is just polish to the old, people still think it's too dated and can't get passed it.  I can still play UO in the 2D client, so it doesn't bother me so much.  I wasn't a big fan of the LDoN+ content, stuff started getting a little too instanced for me.  People wanted to run missions in later expansions and get the rare drop and such.  I did one of the same ones like 35-40 times and the drop didn't happen for a SK we played with, I was done, I was bored to death of doing it, and I think it soured me on instanced content ever since.  My wife did the same mission almost 100 times total, as she kept helping the guy and it never dropped. 

     

    So I am hopeful that EQN isn't the same old over instancing that everything seems to be anymore.

     

  • tank017tank017 Glendale, CAPosts: 2,192Member
    [mod edit]

    because MMO's today cant do what EQ does.Plain and simple,I want a world to explore,I want to be dropped into a world where I decide my content,my adventure.I want danger,I want risk.I dont want my hand held,I dont want signs telling me "OVER HERE" with big waving arms.I dont want to be pampered nor feel like everyday is my birthday.I want to be  unique as opposed to everyone else,who all look the same in todays MMO's.

     

    Im a grown man,not a baby..treat me as such

  • GrailerGrailer HamiltonPosts: 876Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Waterlily

    Graphic explanation:

     

    What EQ felt like when you started playing in the 90s:

     

    What current MMO feel like when you start playing:

     

    This sums it up .  I remember starting as a dark elf and fighting skeletons ,  was amazing at the time because the only 3d game I had played before that was Wolf3d .

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    EQ was a game with kick to it. When you died in EQ, it sucked, bad, you messed up and you were paying for it big time, lost XP, lost corpse, lost gear.

    Getting back to your corpse, pulling your group back together, getting rebuffed, meditating, everyone who couldn't handle it, who didn't want to devote themselves to this game got filtered out, you were left with dedicated players

    You learned how to approach people, you learned how to get things done.

     

    You learned how to motivate others, you learned how to gather 100 people around you who would listen to you every word, because they knew you would listen to theirs when their time to get help came around.

    That's why during EQ and a bit into WoW, some companies actually were asking for guild leaders to join them, because they knew that EQ players GET what motivates others, they GET social structures, they GET what it takes to get people in-line all behind the same goal, they're articulate and skillful at what they do. And that's community building.

    EQ = community

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    Originally posted by koboldfodder

    Both AC and DAOC were technically superior to original EQ in every way, but neither game held the same effect on its players that EQ did.  Maybe because both of those games came after EQ and you already had an idea how to play them, but neither had the community EQ had.

     

    If you talk about original EQ, you have to get your time periods correct.  Original Everquest was two, and only two, expansions.  Kunark and Velious.  That's it.  Luclin is NOT considered a part of original Everquest.  It played counter to the vision of original EQ.  If you are talking about "quad kiting in the Plane of Fire...."lol, that is well beyond the time frame of what we are talking about.

     

    So basically 1999, 2000, and part of 2001.  That's it.  Everything after that does not matter.  The game changed for the worse.  Here is one example.  Luclin added portals from the wizard Spires to a central Hub on the moon....effectively destroying the world in terms of travel time.  Planes of Power added an auction house....and anyone can tell you the very FIRST day of that expansion, the GFay and Eastern Commons zones were forever ghost towns.

     

    If you played EQ in those first three years, you played original EQ.  If you played after, you played a totally different game.  I hate to pull the "grumpy old man" card, but that is the truth.  So disregard any post in this thread that contains anything about Luclin or the Planes of Powers, or Alternate Advancements....because that was not original EQ.

     

    At this point in time, only the name is the same.  Everything is different.  There are progression servers, but there is no real point in playing them.

    Whatever you say.  I played EQ from the beta.  THE BETA.  I played during Kunark, Velious, Luclin, PoP, that other "expansion" that wasn't really much of an expansion, and LDoN which I quit around the middle of do to real life obligations.

    Because I talked about one instance of Wizard quad kiting, which you quoted, and then make a bold statement that I was playing a completely different game... just Arghhh.  Wizards and Druids were actually the best solo class in the original EQ, even more so than Planes of Power which I used as an example.  You could quad kite effectively in several Kunark zones back then.  Bards actually became the best solo class in terms of EXP Planes of Power and beyond.  The statement was made towards someone who claimed you couldn't solo as effectively as a group which was simply untrue as any of the strong solo classes (Necromancer, Wizard, Druid, Bard, Magician, Shaman, Necromancer, and Enchanter later on) could actually get EXP and later AA points as effective as a normal group.  Classes that weren't those listed were forced into groups.

    Saying it doesn't matter or EQ post Velious (your opinion, and again I also hear people state different expansions for when they feel EQ "changed") is absurd.  Absolutely absurd.  Luclin and PoP added a lot to the game.  It made raid bosses far more challenging than the tank and spank or AoE spamming fights they were previously.  They added AA points, which added tons of playability and longevity to the game.  East Commonlands tunnel did not become a ghost town, at least not on Luclin as people still traded there regularly after the Bazaar (WHICH IS NOT AN AUCTION HOUSE) was implemented as you couldn't haggle with offline players.  Spires had massive wait times associated with them, just like the boat upwards of 15 minutes, so it was still more effective to get ported around by a Wizard or Druid which oddly enough nobody seems to complain that they could essentially fast travel themselves and others.

    Why is there no point in playing on a progression server?  The progression server is old school Everquest as you put it.  Tell me why exactly you aren't playing on the progression server if you love EQ so much.

    It's nostalgia, man.  Stop kidding yourself.  [mod edit]  There are some fantastic things in EQ that I wish would be implemented in modern MMOs, but you people are making it out to be a perfect game that every single modern MMO should follow their design principles exactly.  Frankly, if SoE listens to you guys EQ Next is going to be a HORRIBLE game.

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  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    The mere fact EQ has 100+ man raids during PoP made it special. 

    I remember when I had to do my Epic fight and my Guild leader said to the raid of some 70 other players that I was going to lead the guild tonight. I felt my tongue fall into the back of my throat, I never lead 70 players in my life.

    EQ forced you to learn how to lead, it forced you to understand social structures, when those 70 people died, it taught you how to get them back up and motivate them to try again, and again and again deep into the night, and when you did win, you knew you could depend on all 70 of them, they were your guildies and nothing could come between us. The game didn't matter, it was the people.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by faxnadu
    simply nostalgia , first love is always first love type of thing. one should not be fooled by these people barking back in the days mmos were better cause mostly they werent even there or if they were they didnt even play those games just barking out of boredom and simply cause its believed to be such a cool thing to note to everyone that mmos use to be good.

    Has very little to do with nostalgia.

    I played other MMO, I played many other multiplayer games.

    The only friends I still speak to daily are from 1 game, Everquest.

    I can remember where I grouped with them, where I raided with them, where I laughed with them, where I argued with them, where I told them about myself and they about themselves.

    EQ was a social game, and that's what made it special, not nostalgia. If it was nostalgia I would care about other games I used to play, and I don't, I care about none but EQ.

This discussion has been closed.