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TESO more a MP online game than a MMO

2

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  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,611Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zairu
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Zairu

    Originally posted by Krimzin Im starting to feel the same way. I was truly excited about TESO early on, but as more and more information is released my hopes are starting to waiver. I think TESO will be a niche Game for the ES Crowd.
     

     

     

    not when they keep everything about MMOs that i dislike, and get rid of most of the reasons why i love TES games.


     


    Was thinking similarly. Everything I've read indicates TESO will not resemble ES gameplay at all. If it does, then I will be trying it out since I missed out on the ES craze.

    I just have to ask... If you "missed out on the ES craze" how do you know it "will not resemble ES gameplay at all"? 

    I didn't miss out and to me it resembles it a whole bunch. And it's not just me, it's the opinion of the vast majority of people who actually do know something about both.

     

     

    'gameplay' does not just mean 'right hand, left hand combat mechanics'.

    ESO lacks many important TES gameplay features. aside from combat, nothing else is there.

    but if you were only looking at the combat, sure, it looks similar.

    Next you're going to say that Skyrim is a sandbox, right? It'll be like deja-vu all over again.

  • nethervoidnethervoid xanex, CAPosts: 528Member
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by nethervoid
    Cool another SWTOR.

    SWTOR was cool!

     

    If only they had a decent engine that could handle >20 players fighting it out in 1 place, or that the game felt less instanced and with less invisible walls, less MMO on rails.........

     

    oh damn..

    That's what I call a one-two punch. ;) /highfive

    nethervoid - Est. '97
    [UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|SWTOR]
    13k subs YouTube Gaming channel

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

     

     

     

    'gameplay' does not just mean 'right hand, left hand combat mechanics'.

    ESO lacks many important TES gameplay features. aside from combat, nothing else is there.

    but if you were only looking at the combat, sure, it looks similar.

    Like what? Riding horses? Linear main quests? VO for NPCs? Crafting?

    I bet some of those will be there.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,611Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

     

     

     

    'gameplay' does not just mean 'right hand, left hand combat mechanics'.

    ESO lacks many important TES gameplay features. aside from combat, nothing else is there.

    but if you were only looking at the combat, sure, it looks similar.

    Like what? Riding horses? Linear main quests? VO for NPCs? Crafting?

    I bet some of those will be there.

    We do have to admit that it will be missing the Bathing Beauties' House of Pleasure...or whatever it's called. So no, not like Skyrim in the least image

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,725Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dontadow

    The easy question would be to name one that is (created this decade). 

    And we're talking both. And my comparisons are for the rennasiance period of the rpg in both genres AD&D and later ultimas and final fantasys where rich story began to define hte genre. As a matter of fact, reading Gary Gygax books, all Dungeons and Dragons or rpgs were was providing a story to their tactical strategy game. So rich story has always been apart of the initial design of RPGs. 

    As technology got better so did the story telling.  At the end of the 90s rennaisance it seemed natural that the MMO would do the same thing. And the initial MMO's fumbled asthe early RPGs did. My hope is that now they are hitting their story telling stride. Wheras videogame rpgs could mask leveling up into side quests and mini games, the MMO hasn't found a way to do that without it seeming tedious. As the old school games figured out how to give cool loot without the use of a calculator or mathematician, mmos havn't figured that out yet (outside of just shunning the number game all together).  

    Uh, every recent MMORPG is an RPG:

    • WOW
    • SWTOR
    • GW2
    • RIFT
    • TSW
    • Neverwinter
    They all focus on character progression and storyline, which are the core attributes of an RPG.  The other thing that sets them apart from non-RPG games is the focus on non-twitch (or twitch-lite) combat (hence the need for the term "action RPG" to distinguish that subgenre.)  Only Neverwinter really verges on using that other subgenre (and games in the subgenre "action RPG" are obviously still considered RPGs.)
     
    The storytelling in modern MMORPGs is better than ever.  The tedium also tends to be less noticeable than previous games although this is strongly rooted in Core System quality, and few MMORPGs execute their core gameplay at the quality of WOW, which causes them to get old fast.  It's also rooted in actually learning from prior games (SWTOR gets old fast because all mobs play exactly the same, unlike WOW where each mob tends to have one defining ability which the player can optimize against.)
     
    So while I won't claim that 80% of MMORPGs aren't crap (80% of everything is crap,) I really can't think of a single MMORPG which isn't clearly an RPG.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/06/05/zenimax-views-teso-as-more-multiplayer-elder-scrolls-than-mmo/

    "This is more a multiplayer Elder Scrolls game than an MMO"

    "It's also soloable, you can solo almost the entire game. We wanted to get Elder Scrolls players who were unfamiliar with online games and MMO terms to get in, play, have fun and get introduced to the multiplayer aspects"

    Looks like they remember the goal of a game is to have fun, and not according to some "original" MMO ideas. Hopefully they will have a LFD system in place.

    For some of us playing an original MMO, as you put it, is fun. And a pale, watered down one, like this is turning out to be, is not.

  • ZairuZairu Portland, ORPosts: 469Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Zairu
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Zairu

    Originally posted by Krimzin Im starting to feel the same way. I was truly excited about TESO early on, but as more and more information is released my hopes are starting to waiver. I think TESO will be a niche Game for the ES Crowd.
     

     

     

    not when they keep everything about MMOs that i dislike, and get rid of most of the reasons why i love TES games.


     


    Was thinking similarly. Everything I've read indicates TESO will not resemble ES gameplay at all. If it does, then I will be trying it out since I missed out on the ES craze.

    I just have to ask... If you "missed out on the ES craze" how do you know it "will not resemble ES gameplay at all"? 

    I didn't miss out and to me it resembles it a whole bunch. And it's not just me, it's the opinion of the vast majority of people who actually do know something about both.

     

     

    'gameplay' does not just mean 'right hand, left hand combat mechanics'.

    ESO lacks many important TES gameplay features. aside from combat, nothing else is there.

    but if you were only looking at the combat, sure, it looks similar.

    Next you're going to say that Skyrim is a sandbox, right? It'll be like deja-vu all over again.

     

     

    good job on having no points and only trying to put words in my mouth that i never said.

     

    i can point out many gameplay elements that are not in ESO. can you counter my points? or only attempt to throw tangents at me?

     

    good try though.

  • ZairuZairu Portland, ORPosts: 469Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

     

     

     

    'gameplay' does not just mean 'right hand, left hand combat mechanics'.

    ESO lacks many important TES gameplay features. aside from combat, nothing else is there.

    but if you were only looking at the combat, sure, it looks similar.

    Like what? Riding horses? Linear main quests? VO for NPCs? Crafting?

    I bet some of those will be there.

    We do have to admit that it will be missing the Bathing Beauties' House of Pleasure...or whatever it's called. So no, not like Skyrim in the least image

     

     

    your comments only show how much of an imagination you lack, and how much development that BETHESDA puts into TES games that you obviously missed out on.

     

    jokes on you.

  • ZairuZairu Portland, ORPosts: 469Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

     

     

     

    'gameplay' does not just mean 'right hand, left hand combat mechanics'.

    ESO lacks many important TES gameplay features. aside from combat, nothing else is there.

    but if you were only looking at the combat, sure, it looks similar.

    Like what? Riding horses? Linear main quests? VO for NPCs? Crafting?

    I bet some of those will be there.

    i thought about NONE of those things when saying that.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,611Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zairu
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Zairu
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Zairu

    Originally posted by Krimzin Im starting to feel the same way. I was truly excited about TESO early on, but as more and more information is released my hopes are starting to waiver. I think TESO will be a niche Game for the ES Crowd.
     

     

     

    not when they keep everything about MMOs that i dislike, and get rid of most of the reasons why i love TES games.


     


    Was thinking similarly. Everything I've read indicates TESO will not resemble ES gameplay at all. If it does, then I will be trying it out since I missed out on the ES craze.

    I just have to ask... If you "missed out on the ES craze" how do you know it "will not resemble ES gameplay at all"? 

    I didn't miss out and to me it resembles it a whole bunch. And it's not just me, it's the opinion of the vast majority of people who actually do know something about both.

     

     

    'gameplay' does not just mean 'right hand, left hand combat mechanics'.

    ESO lacks many important TES gameplay features. aside from combat, nothing else is there.

    but if you were only looking at the combat, sure, it looks similar.

    Next you're going to say that Skyrim is a sandbox, right? It'll be like deja-vu all over again.

     

     

    good job on having no points and only trying to put words in my mouth that i never said.

     

    i can point out many gameplay elements that are not in ESO. can you counter my points? or only attempt to throw tangents at me?

     

    good try though.

    This from the guy who responded to my post with "'gameplay' does not just mean 'right hand, left hand combat mechanics." when what I had said was "... the look of the game, combat, skill progression and "the player as special hero" main PvE story line be very much like Skyrim."

    Who's putting words in whose mouth?

    And sorry, I have no interest in educating you about anything... I'll be back if the thread ever re-rails itself.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,068Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/06/05/zenimax-views-teso-as-more-multiplayer-elder-scrolls-than-mmo/

    "This is more a multiplayer Elder Scrolls game than an MMO"

    "It's also soloable, you can solo almost the entire game. We wanted to get Elder Scrolls players who were unfamiliar with online games and MMO terms to get in, play, have fun and get introduced to the multiplayer aspects"

    Looks like they remember the goal of a game is to have fun, and not according to some "original" MMO ideas. Hopefully they will have a LFD system in place.

    For some of us playing an original MMO, as you put it, is fun. And a pale, watered down one, like this is turning out to be, is not.

    Fun is one goal but another - absolutely key goal - is that the game has to make money.

    How to do that? As Iselin says first and foremost you target the people who bought Skyrim and make sure that you don't turn them off in any way. Which is why I, like Iselin, think its simple.

    1. Doubt they will need to be online all the time. Avoids the SimCity fiasco but also the need to create a huge infrastructure. Remember Skyrim - indeed the whole ES series - was built around being an "off-line" massive world. So if they stick to that the massive part will still be available "off-line".

    2. And being able to play the game off-line means no "monthly sub" arrangement - at least to play the game solo. Avoids scaring away people who might buy the game. SWTOR, for example, would probably have sold more if a sub wasn't mandatory (KOTOR was a huge seller at the end of the day).

    Result: Sell 10M+ copies of the game and subsequently sell millions of all the xpacs. Financially the game thrives.

    So what about the mmo part?

    It could be as simple as a WoW LFR type tool (looking for raid) allowing people to enter multi-player adventures: 3 people, 5 people, 25 people. The game may come with some and maybe others will be available to purchase. More old style D&D than old style computer based mmo - no Housing, no auction houses, maybe even no loot, guilds. Could be more like map packs for FPS games.

    The other stuff could be added - as a lot of it was with DAoC - but I think ESO could be aiming for pure fundamentals on day 1. Which may well mean that it won't qualify as an mmo by todays standards.

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Zairu
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    'gameplay' does not just mean 'right hand, left hand combat mechanics'. ESO lacks many important TES gameplay features. aside from combat, nothing else is there. but if you were only looking at the combat, sure, it looks similar.
    Like what? Riding horses? Linear main quests? VO for NPCs? Crafting? I bet some of those will be there.
    i thought about NONE of those things when saying that.


    Nice troll-swatting skills, Zairu. Makes them look silly.

    Now then, Iselin, I'm sure you consider yourself a smart guy. Certainly smart enough to know how I, as someone who hasn't played ES, can say with confidence that ESO barely resembles it. Show us how smart you are by answering your own (rhetorical?) question.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • CelciusCelcius Franklin, TNPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon

    Honestly I think this is a good thing. I think part of what makes Elder Scrolls games great is the idea that you can do whatever you want and explore while feeling like you are having an effect on the world. With an MMO in the traditional sense I don't really think this feeling can be achieved. Making the game smaller, having less people in different phased zones,ect will make the game feel a lot more like you are part of a world where what you do has a sense of permanence. Elder Scrolls games have an intimate feel to them, and you would lose that by going the traditional route of MMOs.

    I think part of the whole, no instanced dungeons thing, is that they want it to be a "smaller scale" MMO with a focus on bringing the adventurous feeling of an Elder Scrolls game while at the same time bringing the smaller community feel back to the forefront. If you look at the bigger picture I think that it becomes slightly clearer. Most people I have talked to about ESO seem to be concerned that it will not feel like an Elder Scrolls game, but I think the direction they are taking with the multiplayer aspect of the game is a direct indicator that they do not want to lose that.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member
    Originally posted by Krimzin

    Im starting to feel the same way. I was truly excited about TESO early on, but as more and more information is released my hopes are starting to waiver.
    I think TESO will be a niche Game for the ES Crowd.

    Same here

    I cant believe another company is caving to the "game hopper" crowd. If they continue, TESO will be F2P either from the start with a massive cash shop, or it will go F2P within 6 months, as they bleed subs by the thousands.

    There is still CCP and the World of Darkness.... I have hope!

    image
  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Zairu

    Originally posted by nariusseldon



    'gameplay' does not just mean 'right hand, left hand combat mechanics'. ESO lacks many important TES gameplay features. aside from combat, nothing else is there. but if you were only looking at the combat, sure, it looks similar.
    Like what? Riding horses? Linear main quests? VO for NPCs? Crafting? I bet some of those will be there.
    i thought about NONE of those things when saying that.

     


    Nice troll-swatting skills, Zairu. Makes them look silly.

    Now then, Iselin, I'm sure you consider yourself a smart guy. Certainly smart enough to know how I, as someone who hasn't played ES, can say with confidence that ESO barely resembles it. Show us how smart you are by answering your own (rhetorical?) question.

    WTF are you talking about? If you read many of the press play of the game (and leaked Beta Q&A), several said it had an ESO feel, not just the combat. Do your own research and stop baiting people with words like 'Im sure you consider yourself a smart guy'. Of course I can't draw a conclusion until I try it, so I suggest you 'smartly' do the same.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Adalwulff
    Originally posted by Krimzin

    Im starting to feel the same way. I was truly excited about TESO early on, but as more and more information is released my hopes are starting to waiver.
    I think TESO will be a niche Game for the ES Crowd.

    Same here

    I cant believe another company is caving to the "game hopper" crowd. If they continue, TESO will be F2P either from the start with a massive cash shop, or it will go F2P within 6 months, as they bleed subs by the thousands.

    There is still CCP and the World of Darkness.... I have hope!

    So play something else. If niche means a healthy portion of the ESO crowd and a nice amount of MMO players, then that's fine with me on one mega server. Of course you two are probably comparing the game to WOW subs which will never happen anytime soon with any of your beloved games, like CCP and World of Darkness.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by keithian
    Originally posted by Arclan Originally posted by Zairu Originally posted by nariusseldon
    'gameplay' does not just mean 'right hand, left hand combat mechanics'. ESO lacks many important TES gameplay features. aside from combat, nothing else is there. but if you were only looking at the combat, sure, it looks similar.
    Like what? Riding horses? Linear main quests? VO for NPCs? Crafting? I bet some of those will be there.
    i thought about NONE of those things when saying that.
    Nice troll-swatting skills, Zairu. Makes them look silly. Now then, Iselin, I'm sure you consider yourself a smart guy. Certainly smart enough to know how I, as someone who hasn't played ES, can say with confidence that ESO barely resembles it. Show us how smart you are by answering your own (rhetorical?) question.
    ...several said it had an ESO feel...


    So with your l33t beta-leak newsgathering skills, all you can come up with is "several people said it has an ESO feel?" You can do better than that, I hope.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,455Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arclan

     




     


    So with your l33t beta-leak newsgathering skills, all you can come up with is "several people said it has an ESO feel?" You can do better than that, I hope.

    Actually it "does" sometimes have that Elder Scrolls feel.

    Having said that, sometimes it feels like "an mmo" for good or bad.

    The combat felt like a light version of skyrim/Oblvion combat, when I picked up books or found that "hidden" tower door it felt like an elder scrolls game.

    I suspect that there won't be as many dungeons as an elder scrolls game (by the way). When I spoke to an NPC it felt like Oblvion.

    When I looked at my map or "my skills" it felt like an mmo. When I saw an npc out beyond daggerfall yelling because of an issue with imps up ahead it felt like GW2,

    When I went exploring there wasn't a lot so in that case it didn't feel like an Elder Scrolls game. I will assume that was because this is early beta but "we'll see".

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/06/05/zenimax-views-teso-as-more-multiplayer-elder-scrolls-than-mmo/

    "This is more a multiplayer Elder Scrolls game than an MMO"

    "It's also soloable, you can solo almost the entire game. We wanted to get Elder Scrolls players who were unfamiliar with online games and MMO terms to get in, play, have fun and get introduced to the multiplayer aspects"

    Looks like they remember the goal of a game is to have fun, and not according to some "original" MMO ideas. Hopefully they will have a LFD system in place.

     Perfect!  A TESO world that me and 4 or 5 of my buddy's could enjoy.

    image

  • ClywdClywd HeidenheimPosts: 258Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Hopefully they will have a LFD system in place.

    Confirmed. One for PvE and a second one for RvR in Cyrodiil. Will be in at release.

     

    They have a dungeon finder? Doh. *pass*

    Currently playing: EQ1
    Ruptura Draconis
    Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen

  • znaiikaznaiika denver, PAPosts: 203Member

    It is all about less then 10% of people who want FFA pvp, keep on crying and crying.

    ESO stated from the start, that ESO is going to have three different game styles to choose from.

    PVP:

    RP:

    And SOLO.

    There is no need to panic.

     

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,907Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zairu
     

     

     

    good job on having no points and only trying to put words in my mouth that i never said.

     

    i can point out many gameplay elements that are not in ESO. can you counter my points? or only attempt to throw tangents at me?

     

    good try though.

     Name them and we'll see, without actual hands on time with the game, not to mention where they go on the subject of additions, it's hard to say what will and will not be present now or in the future.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Who says its a wow style dungeon finder.

    Warhammer style open groups / raids (with map marking) seems more likely for both cyrodil and the adventure zones.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Oh and the open dungeons.

    E.g. you enter a dungeon, find it a bit hard, you open your group, people see you on the map at that open dungeon and can click to join your party.
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,611Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Zairu

    Originally posted by nariusseldon



    'gameplay' does not just mean 'right hand, left hand combat mechanics'. ESO lacks many important TES gameplay features. aside from combat, nothing else is there. but if you were only looking at the combat, sure, it looks similar.
    Like what? Riding horses? Linear main quests? VO for NPCs? Crafting? I bet some of those will be there.
    i thought about NONE of those things when saying that.

     


    Nice troll-swatting skills, Zairu. Makes them look silly.

    Now then, Iselin, I'm sure you consider yourself a smart guy. Certainly smart enough to know how I, as someone who hasn't played ES, can say with confidence that ESO barely resembles it. Show us how smart you are by answering your own (rhetorical?) question.

    I'm sorry that pointing out the idiocy of saying, in the same paragraph, that you haven't played ES games but ESO is nothing like them annoys you. Simple solution... don't say shit about what you know nothing about... just a thought.

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