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[Column] Marvel Heroes: F2P Isn't a Charity

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  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by mordaki987
    sigh what yall don't seem to understand here buisness or not it is unfair to those of us that don't have the money to support these games.  we shouldn't have to pay 20 dollars or more to be able to unlock a hero or a character class.  those things and services should be free up front.  not to mention the fact that from my understanding hero token drops are a mere 0.02% which is a poor drop rate indeed to be able to get the hero token or character for free.  some of us in reality outside of the game live at poverty level and have to use their money for bills, groceries and real life necessities that require us to be able to live and survive.  we can't be spending our money frivolously on in game items, characters or gear.  i don't care if it irks you or not.  the reality of it is that particular services a free to play game offers should be free.  i mean if someone wants a costume or skin for their character then sure charge real money for it but a character or character class that is not something we should be forced to pay for!  

    Then how could you have ever afforded a $60 box + $15 a month? As the title said, its not a charity. If people dont pay for the game, it doesnt get developed.  F2P changes it from upfront fees for content you may never use, to paying for exactly what you want.

  • MerklynnMerklynn FLUSHING, NYPosts: 87Member Uncommon
    Like all f2p titles you need to expect to pay more for the flashier items. As it stands you get the game and your choice of starter hero (Thing, Daredevil, Hawkeye, Storm or Scarlet Witch) to adventure with. Now we all have our favorites and if by playing the game you aren't lucky enough to get the hero drop you love just go with it. Chances are one playthrough is all most casual players will do anyway & by then you've seen it all except for future expansions or special events. I do own the Ultimate Pack and still think the whole D2/Marvel idea is pretty cool concept but I can see how people can get upset when seeing high prices in a cash shop. If you really feel everthing is too expensive vote with your dollars by not buying anything unreasonable then either the company lowers prices or offers better deals in general.
  • jonrd463jonrd463 Tacoma, WAPosts: 598Member

    Here's a solution to those of you unhappy with what Marvel Heroes has to offer:

     

    Don't play it.

     

    No, I'm serious. At what point does the divergence of a game's features from what you desire relegate the game into "Not something I'm interested in" territory? Now, I don't have a dog in the proverbial fight, because I have no interest in the game, but I'm interested in the mindset here that demands a game conform to desire.

     

    Would you rail against a tricycle manufacturer if what you really want is a bicycle? Would you stand in front of an Olive Garden protesting because they don't sell tacos? Seriously, if the game doesn't meet your expectations and desires, exercise your free market right to not buy into it.

     

    Anyway, see you guys later... I just found out the Madden series isn't a First Person Shooter, and I've got angry emails to write.

    "You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  • Ahil6Ahil6 Dearborn Heights, MIPosts: 14Member Uncommon

    Spot on article, a large part of the online community these days feels a sense of entitlement.

    I don't mind paying for a few things if I enjoy the game, and it's a way for the game to generate revenue.

    So many of the folks ranting in game do not understand how a business works. They expect new games and content to be given to them free, let someone else pay for their free ride.

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,828Member Uncommon

    It is easy vote with your wallets.

    It is fun how P2P defenders often complain of freeloaders or that they would pay $30 or $50 per month for games that would give them what they want or special servers but then they bash people that spend more than them in fp2 games and whine because they can't have everything in a f2p game.

    What if someone spends $200 in MH and likes it so much they play it for 1 year? That is about the same as people spend in a sub MMORPG.

    Sure, f2p games lure people to buy stuff early on, but p2p games also lure people to keep paying.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • RelGnRelGn halalaPosts: 494Member

    Their model is fine.

    They give you some starter heroes to play for free and see the game and if you want to play another hero you have to pay.

    How many off you payed for the diablo 3 60 bucks and you realised in the end that it was not worthy.

    Marvel heroes is a great game and you can play the game with only spending money to buy your favorite hero

    image
  • DenambrenDenambren Montreal, QCPosts: 320Member Uncommon

    As far as F2P titles go, Marvel Heroes is not too bad, imo. The game seems completely playable without paying money.

     

    I think the fact that Marvel Heroes plays like a Diablo game, is fairly polished, and is quite popular due to the IP, makes people very upset because this genre of game is typically a buy to play model. You look at games like Diablo, Dungeon Siege, Titan Quest, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, etc, and we've all got accustomed to the B2P.

     

    Personally, I give Marvel Heroes a 5 out of 10 score and would never have paid 59.99$ for it as a boxed game. But since it's free, I play it here and there, and would consider paying maybe 5 to 10 dollars for a costume. I guess in this way, Gazillion may just get money from me, where normally they'd never get a dime from my pocket as B2P because the game just isn't good enough to pay full price.  When I look at it that way, I guess F2P worked for them on one customer. And it may be the same for many others. It's kind of an ugly truth that F2P helps generate revenue for mediocre games (thus the reason all those failed MMOs have turned to F2P).

     

    Unlike so many games converted to F2P however, I do feel Marvel Heroes is fair with letting you play the game without having to pay money.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    So now the pressure starts, pay up if your a "real" gamer.

    I knew this would happen, now game devs are trying to make us feel guilty for not spending money in their cash shops.

    If only they would realized that we gamers don't mind shelling out money for quality, not for cheap thrills and 5 hours on content, then they might see some cash flow.

    There are games like DAOC that are still going, and people are still paying the sub.

    image
  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ironman2000
    Originally posted by Wicoa

    The price of characters is too much in my opinion especially since you need to buy banking space and costumes? To be frank I was put off before launch, the price of the founders packs were rediculous, go ahead and tell me again that the store value was worth it. All I saw was that the packs cost 200$ and thats half the price of an xbox one.

     

    Too much, even for the marvel name.

    Seriously, what part of you get to pick 1 of 5 heroes (Storm, Daredevil, Scarlet Witch, Thing, and Hawkeye), each has their own style of play from tank to crowd control to straight DPS, to start with and can get the rest as drops in the game for free, don't you understand?  I played for a day and already have Colossus as a drop.  I have a friend who got the Hulk in his first 6 hours.  You can get ANYTHING that you would buy from the STORE as a drop in the game....Don't get me wrong either, I was really pissed during the whole "You lost my account during early access?" crowd (but they have since made it right with me and are still making it right with the people involved in that).  So while you can get everything for free, those of us that payed for packs got boned a little at the start.  So don't act like you can't get things in the game for free, you can get the WHOLE game for free...

     

    I mean seriously, try Neverwinter, you want to talk about screwing you for cash...they say they are still in beta but the money grab there is in full swing.  Marvel Heroes and Gazillion look like a saint compared to Perfect World....

     

     

     

    I don't disagree with you but neither do I play a cryptic game due to the cost of the cash shop.  I want to point out that I am not a cheapo, I used to subscribe to city of heroes, I also used to buy their costume packs for sheer fun, I was kind of hoping that would help support the devs.  I'd be much more comfortable if games like these launched with a small sub fee say 5$ a month (lets face it its not a triple AAA mmorpg) than charge what they do in the shop.

     

    When a F2P game makes me weigh up whether I buy whole games on steam or one small tiny part from the cash shop. That makes me then question the value for money and what they are charging.

     

    There is no industry standard and I think it needs more regulation, don't get me started on boxes and keys in other games. I consider that a form of gambling and should be looked at politically.

     
  • ET3DET3D Posts: 229Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GroovyFlower

    I rather pay 15euro a month and buy the game then pay 1 dime in free two play game.

    So you prefer to an up front fee plus a monthly rental fee for a game that you'd lose all access to it you ever stop paying? And you think that's a smart thing to do as a consumer?

     

    Regarding the "free to play" name (I typed "free to pay" initially, which may be a good alternative), I think that most people understand perfectly what it means. MMO's have had this model for a while, and tons of mobile games also use this model. People who argue about it have semantics shoved so far up their asses they can't separate it from common sense.

    This doesn't mean that F2P games can have crappy models. Many of them do. When they do the players don't buy that much stuff, and often the publishers change the prices or feature sets. It's still stupid to complain. Don't want to pay that much, don't buy. The fact that you complain just underscores how badly you really want this stuff, which gives the publisher a good idea that they're doing the right thing, and a sale would entice quite a few of these complainers.

  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Llandrindod WellsPosts: 364Member

    I think the problem is this:

    Free to Play games aren't ACTUALLY "Free". For each player, there are associated costs whether they are paying or not. In World of Warcraft, for example, the cost-per-player is estimated to be somewhere in the region of $2-$5. These same costs exist for Free to Play games; each free player costs the operator somewhere in the region of $1-$5 to service.

    This means that Free to Play operators have to use their PAYING customers as a source of subsidy. So part of the reason Free to Play games seemingly cost so much at a transactional level is because of the fact that the operator still has to cover the cost of servicing every player playing the game, whether they're paying or not.

    Then, of course, we have the hard fact that these titles are FOR PROFIT. Standard attempts to increase margins apply. Developers and publishers want to make as much money as possible. They don't do this by starting low and building to bigger price points. They do this by starting high, taking the flack (and publicity) for doing so, and then (in some, but not all, cases) they drop the prices down based on consumer reaction (either by simply dropping the cost of items down, or through the use of permanent "sale" mechanics).

  • odiasudaodiasuda KaunasPosts: 81Member Uncommon

    F2P is a misnomer for pretty much every game that uses it to describe their game. This game is no exception.   F2PSV fits better.  Free 2 Play the Shitty Version.   

     

    No one wants to play the D lister free heroes. I'd like to mention I paid to play Thor, so I'm not complaining. I like the game.

     
     
     
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,191Member Uncommon

    Well Bill, I agree and I do support f2p games that I play.  The problem I have with this game, it is very pricey IMO and not truely a MMO as you have to play their avatars, not your own.  Secondly, no sub option.  Far as I am concerned, if a f2p does not offer a sub option it is immediately second rate.  I don't want to be gouged by the item shop to just enjoy the game.  

    The hero genre does not seem to be doing very well these days with COH being taken off line.  I don't think this game will do that well.

  • mikunimanmikuniman Keene, NYPosts: 312Member

    Lest face it you have to pretty ignorant as a consumer today to think some game company is going to spend millions just to entertain you for free, believe me you're not that special. Dissecting the word "FTP" just to prove a point is just weak. When as a frequent gamer you should know what that price model entails and how it works by now. Worst thing is the people that post and boast how they actually didn't spend a dime on a ftp title they've enjoyed. Wow I guess you showed them huh, gave them a what for. 

    When the elderly lady at your local food chain gives that sample of a tasty new food product it's not your dinner man. So if you like the taste buy something and support something you like. Spending wisely is smart being a cheapwad shows no character.

  • blazzen67blazzen67 Virginia Beach, VAPosts: 65Member
    i dont get the complaining about having to pay either. The people that makes these MMO's and maintain them, add new content , work 24/7 on fixing bugs that pop up and on and on and on do not work for free. Do any of you work for free or would want to work for free? if you dont like a subscription based MMO or having to pay for the better content, then there is an easy solution..dont play it.
  • BenbradaBenbrada Plainfield, ILPosts: 328Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    Free to play means it is free to play. Which it is, people argue it's not really free to play, but you can literally play for free.

    What is the problem?

    Yeah Fendel my thoughts exactly, WTH am I missing that these naysayers are seeing? Rread through this list of comments and one or two people suggest MH is P2W??? Huh?

     

    I agree with you completely MikeB then I read the list of comments and just end up disgusted by some conversation.

     

  • Segun777Segun777 Jade Dynasty Correspondent Lemont, PAPosts: 97Member
    +1 Thank goodness people are finally saying it, this article and Coke's article, I don't know if F2P is the future but gamers still don't get it.  Games need to make money or there will be no games.... acting like children that want to eat nothing but cake and not suffer the consequences.
  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,767Member Uncommon

    Marvel Heroes is probably the 2nd best cash shop game out there behind TSW.  No in game to real money cash conversion option and the only gambling slot machines only give items you can all buy straight up if you like.  As long as those fortune cards don't start to drop exclusive items I am ok with that.  Let the player choose if they want to either take a chance on the card or buy what they want outright.

    I do wish they had made crafting mats stack and I don't really buy into the technical reasons they gave for not being able to support it at launch.  Yea they might "fix" it in 2-3 months but by then most people will have already bought the extra bank space to hold them in for that time so it's very much to little to late.

    I also don't like to get into valuing cash shop items like heroes and costumes on places like this and think value statements like "they are to expensive" are very subjective to personal opinion.  This is first and foremost a game about playing your favorite characters from the Marvel universe rather than picking a class to play.  If you like the Hulk or Captain America you will likely buy them rather than analyze what kind of class they are.  As such prices are based more on how popular a character or costume is rather than how powerful it is. 

    If you don't value the characters the same as the Developer than don't buy them.  No one is twisting your arm and you will have two heroes by the end of the tutorial to play the entire game with if you like.

  • HoliceHolice Bradenton, FLPosts: 116Member

    Thanks again for reiterating the constant ridiculous criticism that completely misses the point of those opposed to some F2P pricing models.

    Not once have I ever seen someone say, "Give me EVERYTHING for free." Instead the issue is when the game costs more per month to play "ENJOYABLY" then the old way of $15 sub. For instance, I bought the PP for $60 bucks, standard price for a game, similar to what I bought TOR for. In TOR I was able to play any class/race combination I wanted and got the first month free. In this game, I ended up with only 4 heroes from the pack, (but they didn't let you customize), my free hero at the start, and then a guaranteed free hero after the raft(which again I did not want). Thus I had to spend additional money to get the 2 other heros that I wanted to play and one was 2k G's($20) and the other 1.2k G's($12). So in the first month I have already spent $92 dollars on a game, that a traditional mmo with sub would have only costed me $60.

    In addition, you have to buy your STASH tabs, which is your bank, and yes i said "Have To" because if you want to craft at all, there is not enough room in the single tab you get. Then, if you buy costumes because you want to change your look, which in a standard mmo equates to new gear styles, that's an additional amount, and each one is around $10+. So you could easily spend $200 on this game just to get the heros you want, the costumes you want on them, and the necessities of storage.

    So in a traditional mmo, $200 gets you the game at ($60) and 9 months of game time. In this game, 9 months has ZERO guarantee of finding new hero's and more items to fill your stash with. Thus you will be buying new heros(Most LIkely) and more storage space and probably costumes.

    Thus, games like this, with their ridiculous price points actually cost more than sub based games.  And unfortunately the only option is to not buy stuff, but then the game isn't as fun if you can't do what you want in it.

    So for someone like Bill(the OP) to try and stand up for the outrage that is greed and lack of concern for their player base is very upsetting, but then again, someone in his position in the gaming industry probably gets most things for free so he cares not how much it cost.

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Holice

    So for someone like Bill(the OP) to try and stand up for the outrage that is greed and lack of concern for their player base is very upsetting, but then again, someone in his position in the gaming industry probably gets most things for free so he cares not how much it cost.

    Is Bill not the same fellow that accused users who protected themselves by blocking the advertising to be freeloading from this site?

    Sorry if that was someone else, Bill.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Antiquated
    Originally posted by Holice

    So for someone like Bill(the OP) to try and stand up for the outrage that is greed and lack of concern for their player base is very upsetting, but then again, someone in his position in the gaming industry probably gets most things for free so he cares not how much it cost.

    Is Bill not the same fellow that accused users who protected themselves by blocking the advertising to be freeloading from this site?

    Sorry if that was someone else, Bill.

     Whoever said that needs to know that people have the right to use Adblocker or any other tool and that person needs to come to the understanding that life's not fair deal with it. If I have to pay outrageous prices on a video game like Marvel Heroes than they'll have to deal with me not clicking on all of their little advertisements.

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    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • RyowulfRyowulf Greensburg, PAPosts: 668Member Uncommon

    As far as ftp goes look to itunes. You pay a little bit of money and get a song.  People end up buying a lot of songs and spending more money than they might have otherwise.

    The problem with some ftp mmos is finding the right amount to charge. A bag for 20? A mount for 30?  

    Is it better to have some people buy items that cost a lot or lots of people buying items that cost a little?

    I think ftp games are still trying to find that balance.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Segun777
    +1 Thank goodness people are finally saying it, this article and Coke's article, I don't know if F2P is the future but gamers still don't get it.  Games need to make money or there will be no games.... acting like children that want to eat nothing but cake and not suffer the consequences.

     People with your mindset are the same people in which the gaming industry thrive on. That's why we pay $60.00 USD now for games instead of $49.99 USD. With your post you also egg the game industry on to continue their price increases. Enjoy paying for cash shop items when they're 50-60 dollars a pop in the not too distant future.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,191Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by udon

    Marvel Heroes is probably the 2nd best cash shop game out there behind TSW.  No in game to real money cash conversion option and the only gambling slot machines only give items you can all buy straight up if you like.  As long as those fortune cards don't start to drop exclusive items I am ok with that.  Let the player choose if they want to either take a chance on the card or buy what they want outright.

    I do wish they had made crafting mats stack and I don't really buy into the technical reasons they gave for not being able to support it at launch.  Yea they might "fix" it in 2-3 months but by then most people will have already bought the extra bank space to hold them in for that time so it's very much to little to late.

    I also don't like to get into valuing cash shop items like heroes and costumes on places like this and think value statements like "they are to expensive" are very subjective to personal opinion.  This is first and foremost a game about playing your favorite characters from the Marvel universe rather than picking a class to play.  If you like the Hulk or Captain America you will likely buy them rather than analyze what kind of class they are.  As such prices are based more on how popular a character or costume is rather than how powerful it is. 

    If you don't value the characters the same as the Developer than don't buy them.  No one is twisting your arm and you will have two heroes by the end of the tutorial to play the entire game with if you like.

    You must be playing a different game than the rest of us.  Prices in the cash shop are quite high.  The cash shop is definitely in the upper echelon when it comes to pricing.  Not as bad as Neverwinter, but not good either.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Originally posted by udon

    Marvel Heroes is probably the 2nd best cash shop game out there behind TSW.  No in game to real money cash conversion option and the only gambling slot machines only give items you can all buy straight up if you like.  As long as those fortune cards don't start to drop exclusive items I am ok with that.  Let the player choose if they want to either take a chance on the card or buy what they want outright.

    I do wish they had made crafting mats stack and I don't really buy into the technical reasons they gave for not being able to support it at launch.  Yea they might "fix" it in 2-3 months but by then most people will have already bought the extra bank space to hold them in for that time so it's very much to little to late.

    I also don't like to get into valuing cash shop items like heroes and costumes on places like this and think value statements like "they are to expensive" are very subjective to personal opinion.  This is first and foremost a game about playing your favorite characters from the Marvel universe rather than picking a class to play.  If you like the Hulk or Captain America you will likely buy them rather than analyze what kind of class they are.  As such prices are based more on how popular a character or costume is rather than how powerful it is. 

    If you don't value the characters the same as the Developer than don't buy them.  No one is twisting your arm and you will have two heroes by the end of the tutorial to play the entire game with if you like.

    You must be playing a different game than the rest of us.  Prices in the cash shop are quite high.  The cash shop is definitely in the upper echelon when it comes to pricing.  Not as bad as Neverwinter, but not good either.

    I find the pricing in Marvel quite questionable to Neverwinter's though. While yes it's "cheaper" but if you're bored and want to play different characters you're paying ~9-20 dollars per heroes. Unless you're lucky enough to get them through gameplay. While Neverwinter really only has a few mounts and bags in the game that's worth while. Even though those cost ~10-40 as well. There's significantly fewer reasons to purchase from the Neverwinter Cash Shop.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
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