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[Column] Marvel Heroes: F2P Isn't a Charity

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  • DenambrenDenambren Member UncommonPosts: 399

    As far as F2P titles go, Marvel Heroes is not too bad, imo. The game seems completely playable without paying money.

     

    I think the fact that Marvel Heroes plays like a Diablo game, is fairly polished, and is quite popular due to the IP, makes people very upset because this genre of game is typically a buy to play model. You look at games like Diablo, Dungeon Siege, Titan Quest, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, etc, and we've all got accustomed to the B2P.

     

    Personally, I give Marvel Heroes a 5 out of 10 score and would never have paid 59.99$ for it as a boxed game. But since it's free, I play it here and there, and would consider paying maybe 5 to 10 dollars for a costume. I guess in this way, Gazillion may just get money from me, where normally they'd never get a dime from my pocket as B2P because the game just isn't good enough to pay full price.  When I look at it that way, I guess F2P worked for them on one customer. And it may be the same for many others. It's kind of an ugly truth that F2P helps generate revenue for mediocre games (thus the reason all those failed MMOs have turned to F2P).

     

    Unlike so many games converted to F2P however, I do feel Marvel Heroes is fair with letting you play the game without having to pay money.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,152

    So now the pressure starts, pay up if your a "real" gamer.

    I knew this would happen, now game devs are trying to make us feel guilty for not spending money in their cash shops.

    If only they would realized that we gamers don't mind shelling out money for quality, not for cheap thrills and 5 hours on content, then they might see some cash flow.

    There are games like DAOC that are still going, and people are still paying the sub.

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  • WicoaWicoa Member UncommonPosts: 1,637
    Originally posted by Ironman2000
    Originally posted by Wicoa

    The price of characters is too much in my opinion especially since you need to buy banking space and costumes? To be frank I was put off before launch, the price of the founders packs were rediculous, go ahead and tell me again that the store value was worth it. All I saw was that the packs cost 200$ and thats half the price of an xbox one.

     

    Too much, even for the marvel name.

    Seriously, what part of you get to pick 1 of 5 heroes (Storm, Daredevil, Scarlet Witch, Thing, and Hawkeye), each has their own style of play from tank to crowd control to straight DPS, to start with and can get the rest as drops in the game for free, don't you understand?  I played for a day and already have Colossus as a drop.  I have a friend who got the Hulk in his first 6 hours.  You can get ANYTHING that you would buy from the STORE as a drop in the game....Don't get me wrong either, I was really pissed during the whole "You lost my account during early access?" crowd (but they have since made it right with me and are still making it right with the people involved in that).  So while you can get everything for free, those of us that payed for packs got boned a little at the start.  So don't act like you can't get things in the game for free, you can get the WHOLE game for free...

     

    I mean seriously, try Neverwinter, you want to talk about screwing you for cash...they say they are still in beta but the money grab there is in full swing.  Marvel Heroes and Gazillion look like a saint compared to Perfect World....

     

     

     

    I don't disagree with you but neither do I play a cryptic game due to the cost of the cash shop.  I want to point out that I am not a cheapo, I used to subscribe to city of heroes, I also used to buy their costume packs for sheer fun, I was kind of hoping that would help support the devs.  I'd be much more comfortable if games like these launched with a small sub fee say 5$ a month (lets face it its not a triple AAA mmorpg) than charge what they do in the shop.

     

    When a F2P game makes me weigh up whether I buy whole games on steam or one small tiny part from the cash shop. That makes me then question the value for money and what they are charging.

     

    There is no industry standard and I think it needs more regulation, don't get me started on boxes and keys in other games. I consider that a form of gambling and should be looked at politically.

     
  • ET3DET3D Member UncommonPosts: 325
    Originally posted by GroovyFlower

    I rather pay 15euro a month and buy the game then pay 1 dime in free two play game.

    So you prefer to an up front fee plus a monthly rental fee for a game that you'd lose all access to it you ever stop paying? And you think that's a smart thing to do as a consumer?

     

    Regarding the "free to play" name (I typed "free to pay" initially, which may be a good alternative), I think that most people understand perfectly what it means. MMO's have had this model for a while, and tons of mobile games also use this model. People who argue about it have semantics shoved so far up their asses they can't separate it from common sense.

    This doesn't mean that F2P games can have crappy models. Many of them do. When they do the players don't buy that much stuff, and often the publishers change the prices or feature sets. It's still stupid to complain. Don't want to pay that much, don't buy. The fact that you complain just underscores how badly you really want this stuff, which gives the publisher a good idea that they're doing the right thing, and a sale would entice quite a few of these complainers.

  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Member UncommonPosts: 488

    I think the problem is this:

    Free to Play games aren't ACTUALLY "Free". For each player, there are associated costs whether they are paying or not. In World of Warcraft, for example, the cost-per-player is estimated to be somewhere in the region of $2-$5. These same costs exist for Free to Play games; each free player costs the operator somewhere in the region of $1-$5 to service.

    This means that Free to Play operators have to use their PAYING customers as a source of subsidy. So part of the reason Free to Play games seemingly cost so much at a transactional level is because of the fact that the operator still has to cover the cost of servicing every player playing the game, whether they're paying or not.

    Then, of course, we have the hard fact that these titles are FOR PROFIT. Standard attempts to increase margins apply. Developers and publishers want to make as much money as possible. They don't do this by starting low and building to bigger price points. They do this by starting high, taking the flack (and publicity) for doing so, and then (in some, but not all, cases) they drop the prices down based on consumer reaction (either by simply dropping the cost of items down, or through the use of permanent "sale" mechanics).

  • odiasudaodiasuda Member UncommonPosts: 162

    F2P is a misnomer for pretty much every game that uses it to describe their game. This game is no exception.   F2PSV fits better.  Free 2 Play the Shitty Version.   

     

    No one wants to play the D lister free heroes. I'd like to mention I paid to play Thor, so I'm not complaining. I like the game.

     
     
     
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726

    Well Bill, I agree and I do support f2p games that I play.  The problem I have with this game, it is very pricey IMO and not truely a MMO as you have to play their avatars, not your own.  Secondly, no sub option.  Far as I am concerned, if a f2p does not offer a sub option it is immediately second rate.  I don't want to be gouged by the item shop to just enjoy the game.  

    The hero genre does not seem to be doing very well these days with COH being taken off line.  I don't think this game will do that well.

  • mikunimanmikuniman Member UncommonPosts: 375

    Lest face it you have to pretty ignorant as a consumer today to think some game company is going to spend millions just to entertain you for free, believe me you're not that special. Dissecting the word "FTP" just to prove a point is just weak. When as a frequent gamer you should know what that price model entails and how it works by now. Worst thing is the people that post and boast how they actually didn't spend a dime on a ftp title they've enjoyed. Wow I guess you showed them huh, gave them a what for. 

    When the elderly lady at your local food chain gives that sample of a tasty new food product it's not your dinner man. So if you like the taste buy something and support something you like. Spending wisely is smart being a cheapwad shows no character.

  • blazzen67blazzen67 Member Posts: 65
    i dont get the complaining about having to pay either. The people that makes these MMO's and maintain them, add new content , work 24/7 on fixing bugs that pop up and on and on and on do not work for free. Do any of you work for free or would want to work for free? if you dont like a subscription based MMO or having to pay for the better content, then there is an easy solution..dont play it.
  • Scott_JeslisScott_Jeslis Member RarePosts: 628
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    Free to play means it is free to play. Which it is, people argue it's not really free to play, but you can literally play for free.

    What is the problem?

    Yeah Fendel my thoughts exactly, WTH am I missing that these naysayers are seeing? Rread through this list of comments and one or two people suggest MH is P2W??? Huh?

     

    I agree with you completely MikeB then I read the list of comments and just end up disgusted by some conversation.

     

  • Segun777Segun777 Jade Dynasty CorrespondentMember Posts: 97
    +1 Thank goodness people are finally saying it, this article and Coke's article, I don't know if F2P is the future but gamers still don't get it.  Games need to make money or there will be no games.... acting like children that want to eat nothing but cake and not suffer the consequences.
  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803

    Marvel Heroes is probably the 2nd best cash shop game out there behind TSW.  No in game to real money cash conversion option and the only gambling slot machines only give items you can all buy straight up if you like.  As long as those fortune cards don't start to drop exclusive items I am ok with that.  Let the player choose if they want to either take a chance on the card or buy what they want outright.

    I do wish they had made crafting mats stack and I don't really buy into the technical reasons they gave for not being able to support it at launch.  Yea they might "fix" it in 2-3 months but by then most people will have already bought the extra bank space to hold them in for that time so it's very much to little to late.

    I also don't like to get into valuing cash shop items like heroes and costumes on places like this and think value statements like "they are to expensive" are very subjective to personal opinion.  This is first and foremost a game about playing your favorite characters from the Marvel universe rather than picking a class to play.  If you like the Hulk or Captain America you will likely buy them rather than analyze what kind of class they are.  As such prices are based more on how popular a character or costume is rather than how powerful it is. 

    If you don't value the characters the same as the Developer than don't buy them.  No one is twisting your arm and you will have two heroes by the end of the tutorial to play the entire game with if you like.

  • HoliceHolice Member UncommonPosts: 116

    Thanks again for reiterating the constant ridiculous criticism that completely misses the point of those opposed to some F2P pricing models.

    Not once have I ever seen someone say, "Give me EVERYTHING for free." Instead the issue is when the game costs more per month to play "ENJOYABLY" then the old way of $15 sub. For instance, I bought the PP for $60 bucks, standard price for a game, similar to what I bought TOR for. In TOR I was able to play any class/race combination I wanted and got the first month free. In this game, I ended up with only 4 heroes from the pack, (but they didn't let you customize), my free hero at the start, and then a guaranteed free hero after the raft(which again I did not want). Thus I had to spend additional money to get the 2 other heros that I wanted to play and one was 2k G's($20) and the other 1.2k G's($12). So in the first month I have already spent $92 dollars on a game, that a traditional mmo with sub would have only costed me $60.

    In addition, you have to buy your STASH tabs, which is your bank, and yes i said "Have To" because if you want to craft at all, there is not enough room in the single tab you get. Then, if you buy costumes because you want to change your look, which in a standard mmo equates to new gear styles, that's an additional amount, and each one is around $10+. So you could easily spend $200 on this game just to get the heros you want, the costumes you want on them, and the necessities of storage.

    So in a traditional mmo, $200 gets you the game at ($60) and 9 months of game time. In this game, 9 months has ZERO guarantee of finding new hero's and more items to fill your stash with. Thus you will be buying new heros(Most LIkely) and more storage space and probably costumes.

    Thus, games like this, with their ridiculous price points actually cost more than sub based games.  And unfortunately the only option is to not buy stuff, but then the game isn't as fun if you can't do what you want in it.

    So for someone like Bill(the OP) to try and stand up for the outrage that is greed and lack of concern for their player base is very upsetting, but then again, someone in his position in the gaming industry probably gets most things for free so he cares not how much it cost.

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    Originally posted by Holice

    So for someone like Bill(the OP) to try and stand up for the outrage that is greed and lack of concern for their player base is very upsetting, but then again, someone in his position in the gaming industry probably gets most things for free so he cares not how much it cost.

    Is Bill not the same fellow that accused users who protected themselves by blocking the advertising to be freeloading from this site?

    Sorry if that was someone else, Bill.

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  • RyowulfRyowulf Member UncommonPosts: 664

    As far as ftp goes look to itunes. You pay a little bit of money and get a song.  People end up buying a lot of songs and spending more money than they might have otherwise.

    The problem with some ftp mmos is finding the right amount to charge. A bag for 20? A mount for 30?  

    Is it better to have some people buy items that cost a lot or lots of people buying items that cost a little?

    I think ftp games are still trying to find that balance.

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  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    Originally posted by udon

    Marvel Heroes is probably the 2nd best cash shop game out there behind TSW.  No in game to real money cash conversion option and the only gambling slot machines only give items you can all buy straight up if you like.  As long as those fortune cards don't start to drop exclusive items I am ok with that.  Let the player choose if they want to either take a chance on the card or buy what they want outright.

    I do wish they had made crafting mats stack and I don't really buy into the technical reasons they gave for not being able to support it at launch.  Yea they might "fix" it in 2-3 months but by then most people will have already bought the extra bank space to hold them in for that time so it's very much to little to late.

    I also don't like to get into valuing cash shop items like heroes and costumes on places like this and think value statements like "they are to expensive" are very subjective to personal opinion.  This is first and foremost a game about playing your favorite characters from the Marvel universe rather than picking a class to play.  If you like the Hulk or Captain America you will likely buy them rather than analyze what kind of class they are.  As such prices are based more on how popular a character or costume is rather than how powerful it is. 

    If you don't value the characters the same as the Developer than don't buy them.  No one is twisting your arm and you will have two heroes by the end of the tutorial to play the entire game with if you like.

    You must be playing a different game than the rest of us.  Prices in the cash shop are quite high.  The cash shop is definitely in the upper echelon when it comes to pricing.  Not as bad as Neverwinter, but not good either.

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  • superniceguysuperniceguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,278

    What puts me off this game is the huge prices. It costs £190 across 3 content packs, and that is just too much for a virtual online game - what if it tanks or they end up in financial trouble and it shuts down and what you bought is then lost. I would more likely buy it if it was not free and cost £40. Then they put effort in adding more DLC for £5-10 over time, like most games, especially DCUO. I may in the end spend more than £200 over the years if that is the case, but £190 (or £65 for one pack) in one go on day one, no way

     

  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Originally posted by udon

    Marvel Heroes is probably the 2nd best cash shop game out there behind TSW.  No in game to real money cash conversion option and the only gambling slot machines only give items you can all buy straight up if you like.  As long as those fortune cards don't start to drop exclusive items I am ok with that.  Let the player choose if they want to either take a chance on the card or buy what they want outright.

    I do wish they had made crafting mats stack and I don't really buy into the technical reasons they gave for not being able to support it at launch.  Yea they might "fix" it in 2-3 months but by then most people will have already bought the extra bank space to hold them in for that time so it's very much to little to late.

    I also don't like to get into valuing cash shop items like heroes and costumes on places like this and think value statements like "they are to expensive" are very subjective to personal opinion.  This is first and foremost a game about playing your favorite characters from the Marvel universe rather than picking a class to play.  If you like the Hulk or Captain America you will likely buy them rather than analyze what kind of class they are.  As such prices are based more on how popular a character or costume is rather than how powerful it is. 

    If you don't value the characters the same as the Developer than don't buy them.  No one is twisting your arm and you will have two heroes by the end of the tutorial to play the entire game with if you like.

    You must be playing a different game than the rest of us.  Prices in the cash shop are quite high.  The cash shop is definitely in the upper echelon when it comes to pricing.  Not as bad as Neverwinter, but not good either.

    I will take a up front and honest expensive cash shop over one with hidden costs anyday.  In my book if a F2P game has slo machine boxes that drop exclusive items or a cash to in game currency conversation option it's a bad cash shop.

    I bought the Avengers Assembled pack with 3 heroes I wanted to play and got $55 in currency as well.  That's enough to buy all the crafting bank slots and a couple more X-Men with some to spare.  Maybe in a few months I'll want to buy another hero or a costume or two but it's still much less than Neverwinter will cost you in the same time especially if you want that slot machine mount not to mention the upcoming costs of upgrading companions or crafting better gear.

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  • jonrd463jonrd463 Member UncommonPosts: 607
    Originally posted by Holice

    Thanks again for reiterating the constant ridiculous criticism that completely misses the point of those opposed to some F2P pricing models.

    Not once have I ever seen someone say, "Give me EVERYTHING for free." Instead the issue is when the game costs more per month to play "ENJOYABLY" then the old way of $15 sub.

    Could you please state what the empirical, fact-based definition of "enjoyably" is?

    Hint: You can't. It's a subjective opinion.

    "You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  • VlackeVlacke Member UncommonPosts: 155

    I agree with this article.

    First of all it has to be said that Marvel heroes is indeed a free to play ARPG game, you choose one hero at the beginning and get two more random heroes by the time you finish the story, complete the game, the entire game can be played for free but if you want to start with your favorite hero you will have to dip in the shop.

    All heroes and all costumes can be acquired via in game drops but of course the drop rate for those is very, very low, it should also be noted that selling heroes is the only way for them to make money in order to further improve the game, and the game needs some improvements in various departments indeed but that is an entirely different story.

    Some people just feel that they are entitled to get everything for free and are very loud with their complaints when that isn't the case, which is ridiculous in my honest opinion.

    At least unlike the majority of free to play titles Marvels cash shop doesn't reek of pay to win.

    Out of all free to play games it has to be said that Path of Exile genuinely stands out as a truly f2p game and the creators of said game should be given a lot of credit for that, however that is a rare, maybe even an unique exception in the current market.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    $20 to unlock a character when you could buy a whole arpg for the same price certainly isn't charity.
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