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[Column] Marvel Heroes: F2P Isn't a Charity

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  • jbombardjbombard Member UncommonPosts: 598

    If there really are that many people upset about it, it is just another example why F2P games are just as hard to develop in their own way.

     

    You have to put enough in to attract players, you have to have enough content for them to stay, you have to make them want to spend money without making them need to spend money to have fun.  If you make it too restrictive people quit before spending a dime, if you don't make it restrictive enough, people stay but never spend a dime.  You have to keep adding fluff to the store to keep people paying.  And all of this keeps them so busy, very little time to make new content(as in stuff you play not stuff you wear).

     

    Where is an a sub game, they have to simply add enough new content to the game so that subscribers feel they are getting value, but so long as you make new and interesting content you are good to go.  Mainly the things that should interest the developers are the same things that interest the players, is the game fun, why do I logon, what new things have I enjoyed for my subscription.  Where as in a F2P game what the player wants is at odds with what the developer wants.  In a F2P game the player wants to have fun without spending money, and the developer only wants to find more ways to take the players money.

  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,739

    I am all for these f2p games encouraging more people to spend money, instead of 1-10% of the people.  I am not in favor of the business model where the many leech off of the few.  This is why I favor selling downloadable content more.  Give the first 2 dungeons or so for free, then charge to open content for the whole account, none of the per character crap.

     

    Then also do not sell anything that isn't cosmetic, this way, people can try the game, and if they do not like it, they didn't pay a dime (which is a big argument from people).

     

    I am more of a p2p person, but if I am going to play a f2p game, if it is not cosmetic only, I usually just skip it....Lets just say, I don't play a lot of f2p...

     

    I think of the insurance company that has the commercial where the people attach to that car like sucker fish, and calls them rate suckers, that's what I think of when I see the people that think they should be able to subsidize their gaming off of the 'whales' 100%.

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  • LanternkeeperLanternkeeper Member Posts: 2

    What you have here is the subscription model, which is traditionally a socialist economic model (i.e. everyone pays the same thing, gets the same thing) encountering a capitalist a la carte economic model of F2P.

    Folks are resistant to change.

    The fact that many different things in Cash Shops exist there, really shouldn't be a shock. from Bags, to mounts, it makes sense. Especially if you factor in man-wage-hours it took for someone to make that item, code.

    That being said Shokrizade's article on Systems of Control in MMO's is fascinating and sheds light on what we're willing to spend and how often in F2P MMOs that I highly recommend everyone on either side of this debate look at. (you can find it on Google, Shokrizade systems of control)

  • sibs4455sibs4455 Member UncommonPosts: 369

    The only time I see gamers complaining about f2p games is when the game itself is subpar or the cashshop is a total ripoff, or the worst thing in my opinion is when the cashshop has p2w items.

    If the game is fun and none of the above reasons are there then I will hand over my cash to these types of games, I still subscribe to two mmo's too.

     

    but

     

    Instead of printing articles like this surely you should be asking why the game is f2p in the first place.

    Any gamer that has been around for a few years can quickly tell if a game is crap, then you know for sure that the dev's have realized this too and that really the only option to make any money is the f2p route, for nobody would purchase the game in a b2p or a subscription format. Ofcourse there will always be a few good games that go f2p but you can count these on one hand.

     

    You mention 'Steam', maybe you should do an article on the many small development companys (on Steam) that produce exceptional quality games for a few £'s and then compare them to some of the f2p total ripoff games.

  • RyowulfRyowulf Member UncommonPosts: 664

    The problem is, it was made to be a money pit.  Its not a very good game.  Okay fun for a little while, but gets boring fast and the idea of leveling two or more heroes is depressing.  

    In beta they wanted to make it so bought hero tokens gave a random hero. So pay 20 and good luck getting what you want.  What does that tell you about the mindset of these people?

  • TokkenTokken Member EpicPosts: 3,547

    Totally agree with OP. Everyone thinks everything should be FREE. Tired of the whining and F2P games. I want to go back to subscription games so that we don't have to hear the whining!! Amen!


    Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004!  Make PvE GREAT Again!

  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775
    Originally posted by sibs4455

    The only time I see gamers complaining about f2p games is when the game itself is subpar or the cashshop is a total ripoff, or the worst thing in my opinion is when the cashshop has p2w items.

    If the game is fun and none of the above reasons are there then I will hand over my cash to these types of games, I still subscribe to two mmo's too.

     

    but

     

    Instead of printing articles like this surely you should be asking why the game is f2p in the first place.

    Any gamer that has been around for a few years can quickly tell if a game is crap, then you know for sure that the dev's have realized this too and that really the only option to make any money is the f2p route, for nobody would purchase the game in a b2p or a subscription format. Ofcourse there will always be a few good games that go f2p but you can count these on one hand.

     

    You mention 'Steam', maybe you should do an article on the many small development companys (on Steam) that produce exceptional quality games for a few £'s and then compare them to some of the f2p total ripoff games.

    I second this as this would actually be an article worth reading. 

  • itsbigmikeitsbigmike Member Posts: 86

    Guess which game I'm going to leech as long as I can stomach and not pay for any of the content?

    This one

     

    I'd rather directly pay for a game than all this micro transaction crap. 

    If a game is worth my time I have absolutely no problem with a box price/sub fee, but I generally refuse to give F2P games any love/money since I don't agree with the business model. F2Ps like this one pretty much require you to spend more money than a normal game would to have the same level of experience. Pretty much a load of crap

     

     

    twitch.tv/boonmackle

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  • ZeroPointNRGZeroPointNRG Member Posts: 70

    I find the title and general tone of this article to be a tad condescending to say the least. The fact that businesses are out to make money is axiomatic, as an adult consumer that doesn't need to be called to my attention.

     

    Products and services don't exist in a vacuum, value is a relative term. As a Marvel Heroes Ultimate Pack owner, I feel like Marvel Heroes isn't offering people very good value for the price point. Let me demonstrate that by going over what  other multi-player ARPG games offer at their respective price points. 

     

    Borderlands 2: $39.99 on Steam right now for the base game, $59.99 at release. 

    What do you get? 4 classes, each with talent trees, that you can level up and get access to multiple skills. At the end of your first play through you should have literally dozens of different outfits, many different hero heads, so you can make your character look pretty much however you please. You'll get 2 vehicles as well, which both can be customized with different color schemes.  The campaign in Borderlands 2 took me at least twice as long to finish as the story in Marvel Heroes did, and BL2 offers more challenging game modes for a second and third play through. 

     

    Torchlight 2: $19.99 on Steam right now, same as release.

    What do you get? 4 classes, each with talent trees, that you can level up and get access to multiple skills. The modding community has added another dozen or so classes to the game, all with unique abilities. The way you look changes whenever you equip new gear, no need to pay $10. The game has so many gear sets and weapons it's ridiculous, with many, many unique models. Choose from one of over a dozen different pets at the character creation screen, no need to pay extra. These pets are actually functional, including combat skills and the ability to sell/buy from vendors so you don't have to go back to town. Runic just released brand new dungeons+ "netherworld portals" in each zone in a recent patch, for free. Modding community keeps adding new classes, pets, skins, dungeons, enemies, etc., for free. TL2 offers multiple difficulties with as many play throughs as you'd like. 

     

    Diablo 3: $39.99 right now, $59.99 at release. 

    What do you get? 4 classes that you can level up and get access to various highly customizable abilities. You can change your look by equipping different gear, then you can dye each piece of gear one of many colors. D3 offers multiple play throughs which become increasingly more difficult. After the first play through you will have 3 followers to choose from, each that you can deck out with some gear and assign skills to. D3 now has the Paragon leveling system and the Monster Power feature to keep people occupied after they hit max level. 

     

    Now let's look at Marvel Heroes, shall we? On Steam the "Avenger's Pack" is $84.99. It comes with 4 heroes, 2 costumes a piece, and some gambling items. So, until you find another costume that one of your heroes can wear, (good luck with that), each will only have 2 outfits. The campaign is fairly short, maybe 20 hours or so tops, and then there are no options for additional play throughs, (even though you won't even be halfway to max level at that point). The "end game" then consists of either buying keys to missions from the cash shop, or hoping they drop from doing daily missions. And you will do this for 35 levels or so. Sorry, i just can't see how this is a good investment for people, especially when I look at what other titles are offering. There just isn't enough content to justify the price. 

     

    If you want to compare MH to other MMO's, I still think you're not getting a good return on your money. There are no huge epic raid dungeons, no battlefields, no open world, no mounts, no multiple starting areas, no multiple quest lines, no huge cities, etc., etc.. Not even gear sets to collect. So when people want to talk about how much a yearly sub to a MMO costs, the typical MMO offers a whole lot more than what Marvel heroes currently offers.

     

    I have to agree with those that think this title is basically a cash grab, using the popular Marvel IP as a means to justify charging a lot for a sub-par game. I'm personally really disappointed with Marvel Heroes, it seems like they just ran out of money, time and ideas and went live with what they had. In retrospect I'd buy this game in it's current form for maybe $30, everything included. There just isn't enough in it to keep me interested after a couple days. 

     

     

     

  • mackdawg19mackdawg19 Member UncommonPosts: 842

    The problem is this:

    Gamers, mostly of the old school form, still tend to think that $60 plus $15 a month should be the most you should ever pay for a game. And in some ways you are correct..........if this was 2001. What they forget is INFLATION!!!

    Inflation makes everything cost more including development and paying salaries because now since the price of goods has gone up, now you have to pay employees more to produce those goods. We are not in 2001 no more. The model of paying 60 a game plus a 15 sub fee is over with. Even for a small independent company, its no longer viable. That is what should have been highlighted in your story and pretty much the only thing needed to be said. F2P is the better option because it allows developers and customers to pay what they want while still maintaining a good product. Now i do agree, some companies over inflate the cost of there items, but in general, there is no set model for F2P. So if you think F2P is just a way to gouge a customer, then do us all a favor and jump in that time machine and go back to paying a cheaper price. But if you really think about it, it wasn't cheap then either. Cheers and the END!

    Oh and please do not bring up games like WoW and Eve that have 15 subs and 60 box prices. Those games were made back then, so therefore it was viable for them. I can bet though they are not raking in the cash like they used to. Both those games 100% have saw a profit loss in some form. And i can also bet at those meetings, they have atleast brought up the F2P at some point. And may very well be working towards that area.

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  • JorlJorl Member UncommonPosts: 257

    Don't mean to sound like a complete arse but... if you don't like the prices for these "free to play" game items  then I suggest sub to benefit. Otherwise stop complaining about it. The problem I see these days is people expect too much to be "free"... but people have to realize that it costs money to pay for bills, developers/moderators need income like any one else who works. Would you work 8 hours a day 5 - 7 days a week for free? Wake up people.

  • NarookNarook Member Posts: 1
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  • AvarixAvarix Member RarePosts: 665
    For me it's the principle. I have no problem supporting things I enjoy with money, especially a good game. However, when you're reaching for my wallet while pretending to hug me, I don't care for it. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I find this type of behavior slimy. That's basically what most of these "Free to play" games are doing. It boils down to "Don't spit on my ass and tell me it's raining!" Advertise your game differently and this would never be an issue.
  • KohleKohle Member Posts: 7
    Originally posted by ZeroPointNRG

    I find the title and general tone of this article to be a tad condescending to say the least. The fact that businesses are out to make money is axiomatic, as an adult consumer that doesn't need to be called to my attention.

     

    Products and services don't exist in a vacuum, value is a relative term. As a Marvel Heroes Ultimate Pack owner, I feel like Marvel Heroes isn't offering people very good value for the price point. Let me demonstrate that by going over what  other multi-player ARPG games offer at their respective price points. 

     

    Borderlands 2: $39.99 on Steam right now for the base game, $59.99 at release. 

    What do you get? 4 classes, each with talent trees, that you can level up and get access to multiple skills. At the end of your first play through you should have literally dozens of different outfits, many different hero heads, so you can make your character look pretty much however you please. You'll get 2 vehicles as well, which both can be customized with different color schemes.  The campaign in Borderlands 2 took me at least twice as long to finish as the story in Marvel Heroes did, and BL2 offers more challenging game modes for a second and third play through. 

     

    Torchlight 2: $19.99 on Steam right now, same as release.

    What do you get? 4 classes, each with talent trees, that you can level up and get access to multiple skills. The modding community has added another dozen or so classes to the game, all with unique abilities. The way you look changes whenever you equip new gear, no need to pay $10. The game has so many gear sets and weapons it's ridiculous, with many, many unique models. Choose from one of over a dozen different pets at the character creation screen, no need to pay extra. These pets are actually functional, including combat skills and the ability to sell/buy from vendors so you don't have to go back to town. Runic just released brand new dungeons+ "netherworld portals" in each zone in a recent patch, for free. Modding community keeps adding new classes, pets, skins, dungeons, enemies, etc., for free. TL2 offers multiple difficulties with as many play throughs as you'd like. 

     

    Diablo 3: $39.99 right now, $59.99 at release. 

    What do you get? 4 classes that you can level up and get access to various highly customizable abilities. You can change your look by equipping different gear, then you can dye each piece of gear one of many colors. D3  offers multiple play throughs which become increasingly more difficult. D3 now has the Paragon leveling system and the Monster Power feature to keep people occupied after they hit max level. 

     

    Now let's look at Marvel Heroes, shall we? On Steam the "Avenger's Pack" is $84.99. It comes with 4 heroes, 2 costumes a piece, and some gambling items. So, until you find another costume that one of your heroes can wear, (good luck with that), each will only have 2 outfits. The campaign is fairly short, maybe 20 hours or so tops, and then there are no options for additional play throughs, (even though you won't even be halfway to max level at that point). The "end game" then consists of either buying keys to missions from the cash shop, or hoping they drop from doing daily missions. And you will do this for 35 levels or so. Sorry, i just can't see how this is a good investment for people, especially when I look at what other titles are offering. There just isn't enough content to justify the price. 

     

    If you want to compare MH to other MMO's, I still think you're not getting a good return on your money. There are no huge epic raid dungeons, no battlefields, no open world, no mounts, no multiple starting areas, no multiple quest lines, no huge cities, etc., etc.. Not even gear sets to collect. So when people want to talk about how much a yearly sub to a MMO costs, the typical MMO offers a whole lot more than what Marvel heroes currently offers.

     

    I have to agree with those that think this title is basically a cash grab, using the popular Marvel IP as a means to justify charging a lot for a sub-par game. I'm personally really disappointed with Marvel Heroes, it seems like they just ran out of money, time and ideas and went live with what they had. In retrospect I'd buy this game in it's current form for maybe $30, everything included. There just isn't enough in it to keep me interested after a couple days. 

     

     

     

    I think you pretty much win this thread. Hell, you might even win the internet. A well written and rational post... 

  • Jmerithew87Jmerithew87 Member Posts: 6

    There will always be people that find complaints for any sort of F2P model. Imo this is one of the best I've seen recently (Rift's might end up being better, but that's yet to be proved). You can get 3 out of the 5 starter characters for free, and yes it's RNG based, but you can get almost any hero and skin from playing. If there's a certain hero or 2 you want you spend 20 bucks at most. For example, I really wanted The Punisher, so I bought the starter pack which came with him, a skin and 10 dollars in points. I used those points to buy Cyclops. I now have 4 heroes (haven't finished the story to get another starter), and access to all content.

    Ultimately games need to be profitable, and I think this is the best way they could've handled it, most people only have a few heroes that they're really into, and earning another one occasionally for just playing the game is enough. I'd rather buy the couple heroes I like then have to worry about content paywalls, which probably would've been the alternative. While I think the prices could go down a little (probably max 15 for a character and 10 for a skin), it's not a bad cash shop at all.

    TLDR: Article hit it right on the head, this game isn't a charity. 

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

     The crazy man gets the last laugh when everyone else suffers the unfortunately fate for not listening to him. I guess I'll take off my "crazy" cap and just follow everyone else who thinks acceptable to pay outrageous prices for a game that's 3-4x more expensive than other games in its genre.

    You missed the point. It's not what you say it's how you say it. Crazy rants get ignored. The kneejerk reaction is to say I don't care if anyone listens, but you do. What you have to say isn't wrong, but when you're foaming at the mouth no one is going to listen.

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  • Ironman2000Ironman2000 Member UncommonPosts: 310
    Originally posted by Wicoa

    The price of characters is too much in my opinion especially since you need to buy banking space and costumes? To be frank I was put off before launch, the price of the founders packs were rediculous, go ahead and tell me again that the store value was worth it. All I saw was that the packs cost 200$ and thats half the price of an xbox one.

     

    Too much, even for the marvel name.

    Seriously, what part of you get to pick 1 of 5 heroes (Storm, Daredevil, Scarlet Witch, Thing, and Hawkeye), each has their own style of play from tank to crowd control to straight DPS, to start with and can get the rest as drops in the game for free, don't you understand?  I played for a day and already have Colossus as a drop.  I have a friend who got the Hulk in his first 6 hours.  You can get ANYTHING that you would buy from the STORE as a drop in the game....Don't get me wrong either, I was really pissed during the whole "You lost my account during early access?" crowd (but they have since made it right with me and are still making it right with the people involved in that).  So while you can get everything for free, those of us that payed for packs got boned a little at the start.  So don't act like you can't get things in the game for free, you can get the WHOLE game for free...

     

    I mean seriously, try Neverwinter, you want to talk about screwing you for cash...they say they are still in beta but the money grab there is in full swing.  Marvel Heroes and Gazillion look like a saint compared to Perfect World....

     

     
  • SuraknarSuraknar Member UncommonPosts: 852

    The problem with F2P monetization is that Companies overdo it.

    I too pay from time to time the F2P goes which appeal to me and I know I will be playing for a while, but they do overdo it.

    Rare are the companies that do a good monetization

    Some games are so limited it feels like a money grab.

    So ya it is not a charity, we all know it is a business, which requires money to run. But if people complain then it simply means that the price is NOT right, you went too far.

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
  • Trudge34Trudge34 Member UncommonPosts: 392
    All these F2P / P2P whatever arguments to me always show why I would much rather play a subscription based game rather than F2P. Much rather have the devs focused on the game rather than what they're going to make to get their money. Problem with most of the P2P games as of late (nearly the last decade) is that they just aren't worth the price. Make better games, charge a sub and you won't have to worry.

    Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
    Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
    Currently Playing: GW2

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  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Member UncommonPosts: 4,775
    Originally posted by ZeroPointNRG

    I find the title and general tone of this article to be a tad condescending to say the least. The fact that businesses are out to make money is axiomatic, as an adult consumer that doesn't need to be called to my attention.

     

    Products and services don't exist in a vacuum, value is a relative term. As a Marvel Heroes Ultimate Pack owner, I feel like Marvel Heroes isn't offering people very good value for the price point. Let me demonstrate that by going over what  other multi-player ARPG games offer at their respective price points. 

     

    Borderlands 2: $39.99 on Steam right now for the base game, $59.99 at release. 

    What do you get? 4 classes, each with talent trees, that you can level up and get access to multiple skills. At the end of your first play through you should have literally dozens of different outfits, many different hero heads, so you can make your character look pretty much however you please. You'll get 2 vehicles as well, which both can be customized with different color schemes.  The campaign in Borderlands 2 took me at least twice as long to finish as the story in Marvel Heroes did, and BL2 offers more challenging game modes for a second and third play through. 

     

    Torchlight 2: $19.99 on Steam right now, same as release.

    What do you get? 4 classes, each with talent trees, that you can level up and get access to multiple skills. The modding community has added another dozen or so classes to the game, all with unique abilities. The way you look changes whenever you equip new gear, no need to pay $10. The game has so many gear sets and weapons it's ridiculous, with many, many unique models. Choose from one of over a dozen different pets at the character creation screen, no need to pay extra. These pets are actually functional, including combat skills and the ability to sell/buy from vendors so you don't have to go back to town. Runic just released brand new dungeons+ "netherworld portals" in each zone in a recent patch, for free. Modding community keeps adding new classes, pets, skins, dungeons, enemies, etc., for free. TL2 offers multiple difficulties with as many play throughs as you'd like. 

     

    Diablo 3: $39.99 right now, $59.99 at release. 

    What do you get? 4 classes that you can level up and get access to various highly customizable abilities. You can change your look by equipping different gear, then you can dye each piece of gear one of many colors. D3  offers multiple play throughs which become increasingly more difficult. D3 now has the Paragon leveling system and the Monster Power feature to keep people occupied after they hit max level. 

     

    Now let's look at Marvel Heroes, shall we? On Steam the "Avenger's Pack" is $84.99. It comes with 4 heroes, 2 costumes a piece, and some gambling items. So, until you find another costume that one of your heroes can wear, (good luck with that), each will only have 2 outfits. The campaign is fairly short, maybe 20 hours or so tops, and then there are no options for additional play throughs, (even though you won't even be halfway to max level at that point). The "end game" then consists of either buying keys to missions from the cash shop, or hoping they drop from doing daily missions. And you will do this for 35 levels or so. Sorry, i just can't see how this is a good investment for people, especially when I look at what other titles are offering. There just isn't enough content to justify the price. 

     

    If you want to compare MH to other MMO's, I still think you're not getting a good return on your money. There are no huge epic raid dungeons, no battlefields, no open world, no mounts, no multiple starting areas, no multiple quest lines, no huge cities, etc., etc.. Not even gear sets to collect. So when people want to talk about how much a yearly sub to a MMO costs, the typical MMO offers a whole lot more than what Marvel heroes currently offers.

     

    I have to agree with those that think this title is basically a cash grab, using the popular Marvel IP as a means to justify charging a lot for a sub-par game. I'm personally really disappointed with Marvel Heroes, it seems like they just ran out of money, time and ideas and went live with what they had. In retrospect I'd buy this game in it's current form for maybe $30, everything included. There just isn't enough in it to keep me interested after a couple days. 

     

     

     

    This is a lot more eloquently put than my post but says pretty much the same thing so ... This ^

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