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MMORPGs Are Dead -- How to Resurrect the Genre

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  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser Member Posts: 1,873
    Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
     

    Please don't be shy to show me where i insulted people in this topic or generalized them? if anything i am against it and i even used sarcasm in earlier reply to make my point.

     

    "I want every MMO to cater to just my wishes and needs. Because obviously i am 50 years old and the whole world revolves around me."

     

    "It is that time of the week again i guess...

    *MMORPG's are dead and i am the only expert who knows how to bring it back*"

     

    You don't have to apologize to me or anyone for doing it. These are game forums & that is what happens in them. We should all be aware of that. However, you should at least be aware that you're doing it. And if you are aware, pay the other posters the respect of not insulting their intelligence by pretending you're not.

    Using sarcasm to bring forward obvious bias and attacks on a 'group' of individual is not same as actually attacking them. 

    And yes this topic has been recycled many many many times on weekly basis that is why i said 'it is that time of the week again'.

    I know you are trying to get one up on me by trying to make it look as if i am in same category as you but sorry my agenda behind posting in this topic has nothing to do with showing my deep rooted hatred against a particular group..in your case which is 'casuals'.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697
    Originally posted by aesperus

    Some MMOs are doing some of the things you're asking for.

    The main issue is you (and others as well) are expecting the game to do all the work for you. You talk about things like the journey, lasting memories & experiences, community, etc. These are things that a game can't just hand you. The most a game can ever do (and has ever done) is to provide a stage, and environment for which such things are possible. It's up to the players to create such things for themselves.

    I can't say I agree with this.

     

    Even though this genre is called mmoRPGs, most people aren't into role playing.

     

    Basically what you've described is instead of taking someone to an amazing movie that takes you on a wonderful and entertaining journey, you're handing them a stack of blank paper and a pencil and telling them to create their own journey.

     

    That is fine for some people, but many others want to experience an amazing journey and games are supposed to create that. This isn't to be confused with theme park vs sandbox either. A sandbox world can have immense story built into it as well.

     

     

    The big problem is most newer MMOs seem to be approaching it from "Here are the same rehashed mechanics that the game needs. Here is the latest art to get peoples attention and make for cool trailers. Hey, do we have time to make this an interesting alive deep world that people will have amazing experiences in? Do we have time to create quests/content that is truly engaging and not kill 10 rats or go in dungeon, kill bad guy, bring back item? If not just ship it with the rehashed mechanics and new art. The rest doesn't matter."

     

    Overall that seems to be the biggest problem for most people. The mechanics are enough to get by if you're new to the genre. If you've played a couple of MMOs, the immersion and depth becomes important. Very rarely does an MMO have that level of depth and immersion. You can see this in all of the other threads on here on topics like "How to revitalize MMO quests" and etc. It all points to the content not being engaging and interesting.

     

    It is like wanting something as interesting and deep as Inception, and instead getting another uncreative flashy Fast and Furious movie. The flash will draw in people and make Fast and Furious a profit so it will keep getting made, but after people have seen it they move on and don't give it another thought where as people are talking about Inception for weeks after.

     

    This is why you see every MMO that is released spike up in users at launch and then by the end of the first month they're already down to 2/3rds of that number and by the end of the second month they're down to under half. That is how quickly people get bored and move on. This isn't some small niche group of old gamers, this is often times millions of users that give up on all these games that quickly. That screams volumes about the genre.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser Member Posts: 1,873
    Originally posted by Antiquated

    Sure one sentence up: These people make it sound as if (etc.)  All properties of an individual are shared by an entire (a bit nebulous) 'these people' group.

    Jim likes fried chicken. All members of (group, label, race, class) must like fried chicken.

    Now you are just reaching and trying too hard. By 'these' people i obviously meant the individuals who are as usual trying to make back handed insults against the 'casual' crowd..in this very topic. Nowhere i tried to give you an impression that i am talking about a larger group outside of this very topic.

    When i am talking about posters in this topic it is not generalization because what i said was based on their own posts about the casuals and those who refuse to agree with their idea of what is a 'quality' MMO.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Member UncommonPosts: 568

    As much as I HATE to say it...but its all in the hands of Richard Garriot, who created the first MMO, i.e. Ultima Online, and then got rich and blasted off into space or something and got all caught up in that stuff and abandoned all things PC Games...until recently.

    Hopefully, with all the criticism he recently leveled at existing MMOs, he can provide a new and fresh approach...something innovative that breaks the WoW trend.

    I do not count on Chris Roberts or Mark Jacobs to do that.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Grailer

     

     

    Discovery is dead unless you sway away from the linear questing .

    And the solution is to make linear questing fun like in SP games such as Bioshock.

     

    Almost all the quests are solo only so other people are really just annoying because they potentially get in the way of your quest.

    Definitely. Put the quests into solo/group instances so you won't be interfered with. It has the added advantage of having the "world" changing around you like a SP game.

     

    You could basically level from 1 to Max level without having a single person on your friends list .

    A good feature for those who want to play a game, and does not want to socialize.

     

    EQ1 did it right in a lot of ways but people whined because it was too hard , instead of looking at the problem they dumbed it down to the discraceful MMO's that we have today .

    Nope. EQ1 is too boring. Staring at spell books. Line up in a camp site waiting for spawn. If those problems weren't fixed, i won't be playing MMOs today.

     

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Member Posts: 6,403
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Antiquated

    Sure one sentence up: These people make it sound as if (etc.)  All properties of an individual are shared by an entire (a bit nebulous) 'these people' group.

    Jim likes fried chicken. All members of (group, label, race, class) must like fried chicken.

    Now you are just reaching and trying too hard. By 'these' people i obviously meant the individuals who are as usual trying to make back handed insults against the 'casual' crowd..in this very topic. Nowhere i tried to give you an impression that i am talking about a larger group outside of this very topic.

    When i am talking about posters in this topic it is not generalization

    No, you asked someone to show where you were generalizing.

    We all generalize,  it's a pretty standard part of human conversations. Labeling is another standard.

    When you speak to a group instead of in individual, and discuss properties shared by members of that group, what criteria your using to pigeonhole people into easy groups...then yes, by definition, you're generalizing.

    You people, those people, them, themepark fanz, sandbox fanz..."casual crowd", "hardcore crowd"...or even just "you people in this thread".

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,759
    You buy a scroll of resurrection in the item shop.
  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser Member Posts: 1,873
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Antiquated

    Sure one sentence up: These people make it sound as if (etc.)  All properties of an individual are shared by an entire (a bit nebulous) 'these people' group.

    Jim likes fried chicken. All members of (group, label, race, class) must like fried chicken.

    Now you are just reaching and trying too hard. By 'these' people i obviously meant the individuals who are as usual trying to make back handed insults against the 'casual' crowd..in this very topic. Nowhere i tried to give you an impression that i am talking about a larger group outside of this very topic.

    When i am talking about posters in this topic it is not generalization

    No, you asked someone to show where you were generalizing.

    We all generalize,  it's a pretty standard part of human conversations. Labeling is another standard.

    When you speak to a group instead of in individual, and discuss properties shared by members of that group, what criteria your using to pigeonhole people into easy groups...then yes, by definition, you're generalizing.

    You people, those people, them, themepark fanz, sandbox fanz..."casual crowd", "hardcore crowd"...or even just "you people in this thread".

    Ok then maybe instead of saying 'these' people i should have just named these 4 or 5 individuals from this topic who were as usual trying to patronize those who disagree with them  as people with lesser tastes and 'clueless younger generation' who know nothing about quality MMOS?

    And we know how well that goes around here. Once again i wasn't talking about any group...or was trying to generalize people but specifically talking about those who made the above comments in this topic.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by UnleadedRev

    As much as I HATE to say it...but its all in the hands of Richard Garriot, who created the first MMO, i.e. Ultima Online, and then got rich and blasted off into space or something and got all caught up in that stuff and abandoned all things PC Games...until recently.

    Hopefully, with all the criticism he recently leveled at existing MMOs, he can provide a new and fresh approach...something innovative that breaks the WoW trend.

    I do not count on Chris Roberts or Mark Jacobs to do that.

    lol .. RG is a has-been, and have not made a good game for more than a decade. His new game is not even a full MMO. I have zero faith in this man.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,741
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Antiquated

    Sure one sentence up: These people make it sound as if (etc.)  All properties of an individual are shared by an entire (a bit nebulous) 'these people' group.

    Jim likes fried chicken. All members of (group, label, race, class) must like fried chicken.

    Now you are just reaching and trying too hard. By 'these' people i obviously meant the individuals who are as usual trying to make back handed insults against the 'casual' crowd..in this very topic. Nowhere i tried to give you an impression that i am talking about a larger group outside of this very topic.

    When i am talking about posters in this topic it is not generalization

    No, you asked someone to show where you were generalizing.

    We all generalize,  it's a pretty standard part of human conversations. Labeling is another standard.

    When you speak to a group instead of in individual, and discuss properties shared by members of that group, what criteria your using to pigeonhole people into easy groups...then yes, by definition, you're generalizing.

    You people, those people, them, themepark fanz, sandbox fanz..."casual crowd", "hardcore crowd"...or even just "you people in this thread".

    Ok then maybe instead of saying 'these' people i should have just named these 4 or 5 individuals from this topic who were as usual trying to patronize those who disagree with them  as people with lesser tastes and 'clueless younger generation' who know nothing about quality MMOS?

    And we know how well that goes around here. Once again i wasn't talking about any group...or was trying to generalize people but specifically talking about those who made the above comments in this topic.

    You young varmints! If you get up to too much shannanigans we will beat you with our zimmer frames! :)

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